MMO's explained

hk11 · June 2014

Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

hk11 wrote: »

MMO players generally want to level a character and see it progress, get loot, and spend time with other people in a meaningful way such as guild raids.

Man, did you take a wrong turn then.

He was describing wow lol- and that is anything but what players want as entertainment. If he likes playing games that milk players for every penny they have then he is on the right path.

I would prefer a game with no levelling that was crafter based , had content and raids that were always relevant, even just as stepping stones (so all the zones weren't just wasted memory) with balanced RTS style RvR that wasn't cap the flag. You know like Dark Age of Camelot without the levelling. In their defense they did make their levelling work as 14 years later it is the exact same level cap it was on release

I was just describing what I have observed from playing every major MMO since the inception of the genre. It's true that I have played WoW, but I have also played nearly all western MMOs usually with more than one character experiencing the endgame content. Those things are exactly what people want in a MMO. Those are the reasons the genre even exists.

zgrssd · June 2014

letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »

Agreed. I use addons and like the ones I have but lets be honest about them. The particular one the OP is referring to http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/05/14/featured-add-on--wykkyds-framework?ref=news-list ,has yet to be updated. Wykkyd hasn't updated any of his addons since April

Not true. Every single one of Wykkyds Addons on ESOUI.com has been last updated 05/26/14 before 10 P.M.
Not one of them is registering as "out of date" on the Live Severs (PTS does not even count).
No idea where you get your data from, but the reality I see disagrees:
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/author-34.html

Arora · June 2014

Here Here, to someone making sense and being positve

LariahHunding · June 2014

zgrssd wrote: »

letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »

Agreed. I use addons and like the ones I have but lets be honest about them. The particular one the OP is referring to http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/05/14/featured-add-on--wykkyds-framework?ref=news-list ,has yet to be updated. Wykkyd hasn't updated any of his addons since April

Not true. Every single one of Wykkyds Addons on ESOUI.com has been last updated 05/26/14 before 10 P.M.
Not one of them is registering as "out of date" on the Live Severs (PTS does not even count).
No idea where you get your data from, but the reality I see disagrees:
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/author-34.html

Just throwing this, do not rely on any auto-update features such as Minion as, manually update (I use Minion) before playing everyday.

Cogo · June 2014

Good to see this OPs opinion.

But I'd like to correct 2 main things.

1. MMO = MMO means a massive multiplayer online game.

It does NOT mean anything else like how MMO should be. What feature they should have. What MMO is the best. What MMO MUST include and MUST do.

Is it really that many who dont understand the simple little fact, that MMO does not mean a copy of YOUR favorite MMO. If that was the case, then ALL MMO would look like Everquest. Or maybe Ultima Online.

Common! There are lots of MMOs, and LOTS of different people who like different games.

For me, ESO rocks, for a lot of different reasons. But it is that for ME, and players who like this type.

2. Addons.

What? First of all, I played ESO since 5 days early launch, and still havnt used a single addon. Sure, I would, if I found one I felt Id like. I dont, and I enjoy the hell out of the game. And it works just fine without addons. Even better I would say!

TES has ALWAYS been about the players ability to add mods/addons they feel would create their world. Zenimax is simply following that culture. Nice of them.

MMO is different, since for example, you cant allow a MOD that automaticly gives you endless gold.

Zenimax is allowing addons. Even helping with having their own section here on ESO forums. But Zenimax CLEARLY states they do not support addons. With good reason. I think its a very good policy from Zenimax to be addon friendly.

But to even imply that addons are required for ESO, is not just wrong, it makes me wonder if the OP have even played ESO

WoW raiding, after a few years, simply requires specific addons to be able to raid and kill Hardcore bosses.

WoW didnt have any addons at start. With 40 mans raiding. And somehow we managed to clear Molten core without em.

Not even gonna start on Everquest raids.....

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · June 2014

@Hilgara: A prime example of why basing one's entire playstyle on add-ons is crass:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/113688/add-on-issues-after-patches/p1

Hilgara · June 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

There seems to be a significant number of people where who are unaware of how MMO’s work so lets take a look
Addons

If you are one of those refusing to use addons because “its not what was intended by the devs”

Addons are in almost every MMO and the code (API) needs to be released to the community for most if not all of them to work and therefore need to be sanctioned by the developers. Allowing other talented people to make these addons saves resources for the developers. They will sometimes retain control of what is available by “signing” (official approval) of the best addons. This is not cheating. If the developers had unlimited resources they would add this little features themselves but they don’t. So it makes financial sense to allow others to do it for free. (plus the boffins seem to enjoy it)

A prime example of why basing one's entire playstyle on add-ons is crass:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/113688/add-on-issues-after-patches/p1

Addons are an enhancement not a requirement. If they work great, if they don't no problem. There's usually a period of time following a patch when it makes sense to turn them all off until they catch up. I or anyone else who use them do not need them. We can play perfectly well without them. But if something enhances your game play why not use it.

Pele · June 2014

Hilgara wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

There seems to be a significant number of people where who are unaware of how MMO’s work so lets take a look
Addons

If you are one of those refusing to use addons because “its not what was intended by the devs”

Addons are in almost every MMO and the code (API) needs to be released to the community for most if not all of them to work and therefore need to be sanctioned by the developers. Allowing other talented people to make these addons saves resources for the developers. They will sometimes retain control of what is available by “signing” (official approval) of the best addons. This is not cheating. If the developers had unlimited resources they would add this little features themselves but they don’t. So it makes financial sense to allow others to do it for free. (plus the boffins seem to enjoy it)

A prime example of why basing one's entire playstyle on add-ons is crass:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/113688/add-on-issues-after-patches/p1

Addons are an enhancement not a requirement. If they work great, if they don't no problem. There's usually a period of time following a patch when it makes sense to turn them all off until they catch up. I or anyone else who use them do not need them. We can play perfectly well without them. But if something enhances your game play why not use it.

But that is not what you said in your OP and in other posts when others pointed out the problems with relying on add-ons. Patch 1.2.3 is a great example of why one should not rely on add-ons for functions that should be standard fare in games.

Also, you do not speak for all add-on users; you cannot say, "I or anyone else who use them do not need them. We can play perfectly well without them." (emphasis mine). It is quite apparent from the angry posts here that others have come to rely on them.

reggielee · June 2014

I dont understand the point of this preachy post OP, other than to show a certain smugness about what you believe to be true regarding the huge arena of mmos and all that pertain to them. I guess you are complaining about complainers about game mechanics, but now that you have sorted them out all will be right with the world

Fleymark · June 2014

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

The developer is responsible for providing the basics--add-ons are to extend the basics. They should not be relied on by the freaking developer to provide features that should already be in any properly thought out MMO. Its like Zeni and it's apologists are relying on 3rd party, work-for-free amateurs to provide core components of the game we're all paying for. Very sketchy, very lame.

You're going to love EverQuest Next. ;p

Fleymark · June 2014

Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

hk11 wrote: »

MMO players generally want to level a character and see it progress, get loot, and spend time with other people in a meaningful way such as guild raids.

Man, did you take a wrong turn then.

He was describing wow lol- and that is anything but what players want as entertainment. If he likes playing games that milk players for every penny they have then he is on the right path.

I would prefer a game with no levelling that was crafter based , had content and raids that were always relevant, even just as stepping stones (so all the zones weren't just wasted memory) with balanced RTS style RvR that wasn't cap the flag. You know like Dark Age of Camelot without the levelling. In their defense they did make their levelling work as 14 years later it is the exact same level cap it was on release

Actually, what you describe sounds a lot like the new Camelot currently in development.

Ojustaboo · June 2014

While I agree with most of the OPs post including addons being fine to use before today, I no longer think the OP is right regarding addons, read on

I logged in today, none of my addons worked. I allowed out of date addons.

About half now worked but had reset their settings, and I spent ages configuring the framework addon when I first installed, and I still can't get it back exactly the same.

But, worse than that, the librarian addon created a new lua file meaning had I not backed up my savedvariables directory a couple of weeks ago, I would have lost all the books I had found and intended to read later.

I also had to accept new addon terms today which means Zenimax aren't interested if addons cause any problems etc. To quote part of it (caps is theirs, bold is mine)

ZOS is not responsible for any Add-ons, or the Game if You download and/or use an Add-on; YOU USE THESE AT YOUR OWN RISK;

ZOS will not provide customer support on any Add-ons or Your Game product if You download and/or use an Add-on. Disable all Add-ons prior to contacting Customer Service;

Your Game may not function properly as a result of downloading and/or using Add-ons.

Any Add-ons and/or files that appear to be Add-ons that You download could contain malicious code that could affect Your system. ZOS is not responsible for any such malicious code or the performance of Your system as a result of such malicious code;

ZOS RESERVES THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE API AT ANY TIME, OR TO DISABLE AND/OR RESTRICT ANY ADD-ONS AT ANY TIME; and

If you create an Add-on, You must include the following disclosure in a Readme or similar .txt file: "This Add-on is not created by, affiliated with or sponsored by ZeniMax Media Inc. or its affiliates. The Elder Scrolls® and related logos are registered trademarks or trademarks of ZeniMax Media Inc. in the United States and/or other countries. All rights reserved."

ADD-ON TERMS OF USE
These Add-on Terms of Use ("Add-on Terms of Use") are entered into by and between ZeniMax Online Studios LLC ("ZOS") and You, an individual ("You" and "Your"), and govern Your creation and/or use of any Add-ons. These Add-on Terms of Use are Supplemental Terms to the Terms of Service ("Terms of Service", available at https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service and together with any other Supplemental Terms, including, but not limited to, the Privacy Policy available at https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/privacy-policy, and Code of Conduct available at https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/code-of-conduct, collectively, the "Agreement"). The Agreement is supplemented by the End User License Agreement available at https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/eula. Any capitalized terms not otherwise defined herein shall have the meanings given to them in the Terms of Service.

The creation, download, enabling, use and/or association of the API and/or any Add-ons is on a USE AT YOUR OWN RISK basis. As with all Content, including UGC, all uses of the API and any Add-ons are for Your own personal, non-commercial use solely in connection with the Game, subject to the terms and conditions of the Terms of Service, including these Add-on Terms of Use. Your use of the API, creation of any Add-ons through the API, and/or the enablement of any Add-ons in the Game each constitutes Your acceptance of these Add-on Terms of Use. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THESE ADD-ON TERMS OF USE, DO NOT USE THE API OR CREATE, DOWNLOAD, ENABLE, USE OR ASSOCIATE ANY ADD-ONS WITH YOUR GAME.

Zenimax either have to properly support the addon community, so that addons can be updated before updates go live (or ready to go when updates go live), make sure that before the launcher updates, it backs up the savedvariables so that should something go wrong the end user hasn't lost all their settings etc.

Or they need to include some of the missing ui stuff in the actual game.

They cant have it both ways.

As it stands they are telling us if we download an addon, if there's any problem at all with the game, they are not going to help.

KhajitFurTrader · June 2014

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Zenimax either have to properly support the addon community, so that addons can be updated before updates go live (or ready to go when updates go live), make sure that before the launcher updates, it backs up the savedvariables so that should something go wrong the end user hasn't lost all their settings etc.

Or they need to include some of the missing ui stuff in the actual game.

They cant have it both ways.

As it stands they are telling us if we download an addon, if there's any problem at all with the game, they are not going to help.

You have the right of it. And ZOS has the right of it by doing things this way. Their game, their rules. They cannot be held responsible for things that are out of their control, and they have every right to only support things that are within. It's either this, or they'd have to cancel the API and thus disable third-party addons to their game, in order to protect the functionality and integrity of their UI for everyone.

Regarding "support for the addon community": the PTS is open for everyone, including the addon community. The patch notes for 1.2.0 were posted on June 2nd, so the first build of Update 2 was live on the PTS 24 days ago. Plenty of time to play with the code and update it, I'd say.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · June 2014

Ojustaboo wrote: »

As it stands they are telling us if we download an addon, if there's any problem at all with the game, they are not going to help.

Every MMO that has an add-on capability is like this .. it's why I won't use add-ons for core playing abilities, add-ons get broken by the developer of the game without a moment's thought and if one of those that break is what you base your whole playstyle on, as the OP seems to be promoting, then you're stuck waiting for its author to fix it .. God help you if they've stopped playing and abandon it.