RAIDS!!! Big, huge, massive RAIDS! Ala Everquest, minimum 24 players. Perhaps no max? And new, fun, intuitive, lengthy, and intriguing quest lines to unlock access to them?

Cogo wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

What a bizzare, no is yes, black is white answer!

When the casual wave of players hit VR zones, they will get frustrated with VR scaling problems just like the faster levelers. The casuals won't have access to the same insta-level Craglorn anomaly farming 'exploit' that other players (like me) took advantage of during the first few weeks of pre-patched Craglorn. Casuals are in for a long, hard tough slog in VR zones especially if those who rolled one of the gimpier classes, i.e. nightblade.

What a totally wrong statement! Are you making this up?

ALL players who have some sort of experience from ANY MMO, or is a player who likes even RPGs, do expect encounters to get harder to higher level you go.

Of course you are a more powerful character, but that does NOT mean that you kill 4 dragons at once.

Casual players DO expect higher end content to be harder then lower.....
This is a fact, not my view.

Where the HECK did this idea come from? That level 1-50 would be easier the higher level you go?
Almost ALL SINGLE player RPG as well as MMOs gets harder and more complexed events, things to gain the high level you get.

And the statement that ANYONE would expect High end content to be "as easy" as 1-50? That's simply not true.

Ok, WoW players does expect that, but they are a totally different crowd.

I think I never seen such complete rubbish statement about RPG games. Both single and mutliplayer.

You couldn't be more wrong. Sorry. The statement you quoted is actually pretty accurate, in a round about fashion. I saw this train wreck coming the instant I stepped foot into a Veteran zone a few weeks ago.

Casual gamers progress much slower due to the fact that they play a lot less, take their time, putz around, smell the roses so to speak.

I knew back then that in a few weeks (now) casual players would start hitting the VR zones and ZoS was gonna be in big trouble. Yes, of course everyone expects progression to get slightly more difficult. But the transition from 1-50 to VR content is like getting hit in the face with a bucket of ice cold water.

Bob was struggling with some of the harder 1-50 content. He wasn't happy that him and his wife couldn't fight Molag Bal together or any of the other main storyline quests for that matter, but him and his wife enjoy the game for other reasons, so they pressed through it. Now Bob has finally beaten MB. Feeling like a hero and feeling like he had just accomplished something, Bob heads off to VR1 content.

There are a few things that Bob the casual will realize at this point:

1. That he just walked into a Heroic version of the same content.
2. That no matter where he goes, no matter what he does, he is up against trash mobs that are not only harder than what he was originally struggling with, but much harder.
3. That he wasn't at the end. Far from it. Bob watches is VR XP bar and after a while it hits him like a brick in the face - he has only completed 1/3 of the game.
4. Then he realizes that he is only doing a Heroic version of the other faction's quests and storylines.
5. Then it occurs to him that him and his wife still cannot help each other with quests unless they start them together and finish them together.

Bob is now feeling sheepish and depressed and decides to do something he seldom does - He comes to the forums. He thinks that surely he is missing something. Surely there is some kind of way him and his wife can progress in this game w/o having to battle their way through wave after wave of endless elite trash mobs.

After reading the forums, Bob decides to break it to his wife gently.

"I'm sorry honey, but we're just gonna have to find another game"


This is happening Cogo. It is happening right before your eyes. It is happening right now.

You can deny it until you are blue in the face, but the evidence is everywhere. And you don't have to look very hard to see it. You and others like you can insist on keeping your blinders on if you wish to.

But ZoS is aware of the Exodus. They are well aware that this game is in deep [snip]. Because not only are they getting swamped with cancelled subs, but they are getting feedback from concerned players pointing out that half or more of their guild rosters are inactive accounts. Accounts that have been inactive for days, weeks, months. And you can take that to the bank.

And if the bank is closed, you may put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

wrlifeboil wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

Qumulous wrote: »

This game is not hard at all. A little challenge and people always want the easy button.

Challenging is fine, unmanageable alone is another thing. There's practically no one in the second alliance zones to help one out.

However there's many more people in my first veteran alliance zones, especially Stonefalls which is understandable.

Casuals are just now starting to hit vet ranks. So as time goes on more people will start showing up in bet ranks making more people available for grouping and making vet ranks what they are supposed to be.

What a bizzare, no is yes, black is white answer!

When the casual wave of players hit VR zones, they will get frustrated with VR scaling problems just like the faster levelers. The casuals won't have access to the same insta-level Craglorn anomaly farming 'exploit' that other players (like me) took advantage of during the first few weeks of pre-patched Craglorn. Casuals are in for a long, hard tough slog in VR zones especially if those who rolled one of the gimpier classes, i.e. nightblade.

Imagine the time it is going to take "casuals" to complete a vet zone. They seem to think that vet zones are full of fluffy clouds and rainbows. I personally cannot wait for them to start leveling here and then getting to read these forums. It's going to be great.

There are way more people leaving than just a few spoiled types. I will say it until I am blue in the face. Look at your guild rosters. They are full of abandoned accounts.

Guilds that are trying to stay active are having to boot and recruit dozens of people every other day. I know this because I am one of them.

People didn't expect too much. They expected a AAA MMO from a company that has Billions of Dollars and millions of devoted fans around the world. They expected a company like ZoS to make a game that everyone could enjoy in one way or another. They didn't expect "heroic trash mobs online".

I also want to add that I am not a hater. Nor are most of the people expressing similar concerns. We like this game and want it to succeed. It is our concern for the future of this game that brings us here.

It's a real shame that this game was so mismanaged...

I remember about 2 years ago hearing about ESO being developed and being sure that I was going to love the game. I even planned on taking vacation time off when the game released.

I played the Beta and realized how short this game fell of my expectations and didn't even want to play it anymore...

It took a chick with a rediculously nice body asking me to play with her to get me to purchase this game. After playing for a couple weeks, I'm now level 30something and am already burning out on it. Pressing the same 6 buttons over and over is boring. I used to play a WoW druid... and loved utilizing skills from all 3 specs.

Guild wars 2 was the same way. Boring boring grinding. Very few buttons. No end game.

As I approach endgame and see people's complaints, I am sure that I won't be sticking around for long...

I really don't understand how companies can be this blatantly stupid. Sorry to be blunt but that's all there is to it.

The whole "You have to wear a dress and carry around dual staves to do end game content" is stupid. I'll wager that 90% of people playing this game wanted to be a knightly plate-clad warriors or a sneaky stabby rouge/archer.

The controls of this game suck. It's just another tab targeting system. No real aiming. The block and parry system is lame. Go play "mount and blade: warband" and see how it's done. They did it with PVP years ago, and much much better. If they had just copied everything from mount and blade:warband and added offensive and defensive magic to the mix, this game would truly been amazing...

Then you toss in no end game content and you quickly realize why this game was doomed to fail from the beginning.

It was a real shame the game went the way it did. A real missed opportunity.

I can only hope that those responsible for this atrocity never be allowed to work on another MMO again...

Audigy wrote: »

Worstluck wrote: »

Not sure what game you are playing @Audigy , but there is literally nothing to do at VR12 except for vet dungeons, Cyrodiil, Trials, or alts, if you have completed the quests, upgraded your gear and got the achievements you want. Those games you mentioned offer much more to do at end game, at least in my opinion. Granted, I don't play any of them anymore and I like ESO now, but there really isn't a whole lot do yet.

I don't think you realize that max level is 50 and not VR 12. The VR´s are not levels, they are an addition for your Char an addition that will be raised by ZO frequently - see it as an extended skill line, comparable to the elder system of WS or some older MMOs.

The only mistake ZO did is that they don't give us a specific VR skill so to speak, so that many players make the mistake and think that VR is still a part of their leveling curve, while its not.

It would had been wiser to give players a specific type of morph ability or a totally new skill line from 50 onwards that can only be learned by doing VR specific content.

Therefore, Level 50 is where we need to start comparing and based on this ESO has a lot more already than WOW ever had at max level.

The system that ESO is using, but also WS gives a player the chance to improve his char past the level cap. This is a system that MMO´s used to have, as in fact the first MMO´s didn't even had levels!

You can like it or you don't, that's your choice. Personally, I prefer games that offer me something at max level instead of telling me "sorry, your game is over and your char is finished now".

ESO while not perfect, lets you customize your Char further due the VR addition and if they do it smart, then nobody ever has to feel bored and Chars will never stop improving and this is indeed what MMO´s were all about in the past.


Right now ZO gave us an MMO for experienced, old school players. If you are one of those and had your fair share of Ultima & Co. then you wont complain much about VR´s. Its just how it all was in the past and its how MMO´s are.

Nonetheless do I understand especially younger folks that grew up with WOW and do now indeed wonder why the game doesn't end and they can finally start grinding a dungeon for 2 years. But understanding doesn't mean supporting and I can only say that these people might have picked the wrong game. WS works very similar to ESO and the complaints there are as big as here. Its a pity I think, as both games brought something back to MMO´s that was long gone - Char development past max level

That said, VR´s can be improved as mentioned earlier in my post - but the basic idea behind VR´s is alright and a great move back to the traditional MMO spirit.

If you are referring to me, I am neither young, nor did I group up with WoW. I really don't care about those other games, I was just stating that there is more to do when you reach max level. Whether you want to admit it or not, VR12 is 'max level'. This is not a horizontal progression system. This is a classic theme park experience. One you reach VR12, that's it. You upgrade your gear, just like every other MMO of this vein and your done. Go run raids; go join the zergs in Cyrodiil; go level an alt...that's it.

If you want to play a game that has no end, you will need to look at a sandbox type MMO, that actually provides you options, versus a quest/raid/pvp or die type of game (which ESO is).

Kiwi wrote: »

personally i enjoy the difficulty and find it rewarding but i guess some people dont enjoy a challenge and need a carrot dangled infront of their face 24/7 to keep walking forward

The game is linear. That's the problem. People need an incentive to keep going. This is nothing new and affects all aspects of life. No different here. Not having achieves or having the rewards out weigh the risk leaves a bad taste and gives people no reason to really do the content.

well i agree with most stuff.. and the biggest problem is the absolutly horror response time.. well its actually no response.. its laggy beyond fun.. and i often die ... then respawn and ...baeemmm.. my ultimate is activating.. woow cool..

or i want to switch weapons.. hell no waaaaaaaaaaaaaayy... mthis is absolutly unplayable.. and 3 mobs are often suicide...and my gear is good...

..especially if u have a 1second fullfreeze at the start of combat.. (100mbit internet..soo nope not my fault)

meeeeehhhh vet stuff was fun at the start but im at vet3 and quit my subscription, cause its no fun.. and why should i spend more time with useless timedestroying crafting and running around in riften ;(((

...GIVE US FUN!!!... and Kill the lags...if i see a game like black desert online with fast and action packed combat.. i ask myself why im torturing myself anymore

@Alphashado

This is happening Cogo. It is happening right before your eyes. It is happening right now.

You can deny it until you are blue in the face, but the evidence is everywhere. And you don't have to look very hard to see it. You and others like you can insist on keeping your blinders on if you wish to.

But ZoS is aware of the Exodus. They are well aware that this game is in deep [snip]. Because not only are they getting swamped with cancelled subs, but they are getting feedback from concerned players pointing out that half or more of their guild rosters are inactive accounts. Accounts that have been inactive for days, weeks, months. And you can take that to the bank.

And if the bank is closed, you may put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Can you please stop saying that Casuals are too dumb to play, I am so tired of that argument. Its the same argument people used at WOW for many years after the game crashed with WOTLK for the first time ...

Casuals are very well capable of using their brain and fingers to play games, they don't need to be carried or treated like a baby!

"The poor Casuals leave because of VR, remove it now!"

As a Casual myself I can assure you that you are wrong, very wrong.

Most Casuals are not even at the VR´s, so why do you think that its too hard for them? Were you able to travel into the future or are you a medium that can sense the future?
If so, please tell me the numbers for the lottery - I assure you if I win we will split it, but you already knew this I guess....!

The jokes aside, as a Casual myself I can assure you that we don't suck and do know very well how to use a mouse and a keyboard. Besides that we also got a high enough IQ to perform basic tasks with our Characters solo and in group environment.

We are not afraid of a challenge and if we couldn't take the challenge yet, then not because of our skill, but because of our available time.
Casual does not mean "dumb", but "less online" please remember this.


You try to find an excuse why you don't like ESO and you are using Casuals to pressure ZO. Its the same method people at WS use right now in regards of the raid content and their VR system there.

"Poor Casual cant do it, its too hard - make it 10 men and cut the time needed in half".

Truth however is, that Casuals don't even care about reaching the end in an MMO or becoming the world strongest raider. They do play for fun and don't mind waiting a bit longer if a challenge is too hard right now.


Therefore, if you don't like ESO and how it is played at max level then maybe ESO just isn't your type of game. If so, then please be honest about that and stop using us Casuals as an excuse for yourself.

Thanks!

@‌ topic

ESO´s max level content is based on VR´s and the game was sold with that type of content in mind. I doubt that ZO has the will and strength to delete their max level content, its what makes ESO stand out from the masses.

Over time they will make improvements to it, maybe they offer us different zones for VR leveling, maybe they offer us totally new skill lines or something similar. But that they remove VR´s is very unlikely, its their max level content and without it what would we have left?

Exactly, nothing but trials and dungeons and if people wanted to have this then they got loads of MMO´s that offer exactly this and if ESO wants to survive then it must stand out and not be another copy of WOW.

Audigy wrote: »

@Alphashado

This is happening Cogo. It is happening right before your eyes. It is happening right now.

You can deny it until you are blue in the face, but the evidence is everywhere. And you don't have to look very hard to see it. You and others like you can insist on keeping your blinders on if you wish to.

But ZoS is aware of the Exodus. They are well aware that this game is in deep [snip]. Because not only are they getting swamped with cancelled subs, but they are getting feedback from concerned players pointing out that half or more of their guild rosters are inactive accounts. Accounts that have been inactive for days, weeks, months. And you can take that to the bank.

And if the bank is closed, you may put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Can you please stop saying that Casuals are too dumb to play, I am so tired of that argument. Its the same argument people used at WOW for many years after the game crashed with WOTLK for the first time ...

Casuals are very well capable of using their brain and fingers to play games, they don't need to be carried or treated like a baby!

"The poor Casuals leave because of VR, remove it now!"

As a Casual myself I can assure you that you are wrong, very wrong.

Most Casuals are not even at the VR´s, so why do you think that its too hard for them? Were you able to travel into the future or are you a medium that can sense the future?
If so, please tell me the numbers for the lottery - I assure you if I win we will split it, but you already knew this I guess....!

The jokes aside, as a Casual myself I can assure you that we don't suck and do know very well how to use a mouse and a keyboard. Besides that we also got a high enough IQ to perform basic tasks with our Characters solo and in group environment.

We are not afraid of a challenge and if we couldn't take the challenge yet, then not because of our skill, but because of our available time.
Casual does not mean "dumb", but "less online" please remember this.


You try to find an excuse why you don't like ESO and you are using Casuals to pressure ZO. Its the same method people at WS use right now in regards of the raid content and their VR system there.

"Poor Casual cant do it, its too hard - make it 10 men and cut the time needed in half".

Truth however is, that Casuals don't even care about reaching the end in an MMO or becoming the world strongest raider. They do play for fun and don't mind waiting a bit longer if a challenge is too hard right now.


Therefore, if you don't like ESO and how it is played at max level then maybe ESO just isn't your type of game. If so, then please be honest about that and stop using us Casuals as an excuse for yourself.

Thanks!

@‌ topic

ESO´s max level content is based on VR´s and the game was sold with that type of content in mind. I doubt that ZO has the will and strength to delete their max level content, its what makes ESO stand out from the masses.

Over time they will make improvements to it, maybe they offer us different zones for VR leveling, maybe they offer us totally new skill lines or something similar. But that they remove VR´s is very unlikely, its their max level content and without it what would we have left?

Exactly, nothing but trials and dungeons and if people wanted to have this then they got loads of MMO´s that offer exactly this and if ESO wants to survive then it must stand out and not be another copy of WOW.

I went back and read a few of your posts. I'm not even going to waste my breath discussing this topic with you. So I edited out what I wrote and regret even wasting the time. You can thump your chest all day long, but in the end, the numbers don't lie. They will make changes and you will throw a fit and threaten to leave. Then the rest of us will say. "If you don't like it, go play another game".

I am just grinding through VR1, and quite frankly doing Ebonheart quests is not that exciting. The game was much to casual, players got to 50 so fast that there was no real end content zones. My advice would be have more quests in the early zones and less experience given.