steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Lunshea wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

The game deliberately becomes a hard core combat grinder after the faction story ends. It sees its long term customer base as people who like that sort of gameplay. If your idea of a good game isn't endless challenging combat ESO probably isn't the game for you.

I love most things about ESO, but I must admit I find the design choices on veteran questing and effort vs reward questionable. I don't believe one second that "the ESO long term customer base are people who like that sort of gameplay"

It might not be but it's pretty obvious that was what Zenimax thought otherwise the game would not be like it is. And i'm not saying that's even wrong. It might be that a pretty simple game model reduces development and running costs and so the maximum profit can come from a smaller customer base.

Maybe they think and maybe they are right that there is a gap in the market for this type of game.

If they wanted to retain all their customer base they'd provide the content, challenge and rewards for them. The game would have more width and more options and it most certainly would not have you grinding other faction stories for WTF reasons.

Well, Zenimax probably thought otherwise, but I'm also sure they have seen that some of their choices were not so good. Hence;

We've been looking closely at the Veteran system, and we want it to be more exciting to get to level 50. In order to take on the Veteran system, we have to use an approach that addresses several key components:

• Itemization – we’ll add gear that’s harder to acquire but more worthwhile. We're looking at gear that will make others envious when you’re wearing or wielding it—both in appearance and in stat boosts. To do this, we’ll adjust soft caps so that they don't kick in quite as quickly. We have to be very careful about how much we adjust numbers, because the greater the variance, the more people can hurt their intended builds.
• Veteran Ranks - we're looking at giving you more "points" to spend when you hit a Veteran Rank. This is at a very, very early stage, but essentially, we want to keep the great customization you have for your character from 1-50 and allow you to continue augmenting it in meaningful ways. Our goal is to let you have many more fun character development decisions post level 50.

As I initially wrote; more reward vs effort. My guess is that veteran trash, at some point, also will be nerfed slightly...

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

Qumulous wrote: »

This game is not hard at all. A little challenge and people always want the easy button.

Challenging is fine, unmanageable alone is another thing. There's practically no one in the second alliance zones to help one out.

However there's many more people in my first veteran alliance zones, especially Stonefalls which is understandable.

Casuals are just now starting to hit vet ranks. So as time goes on more people will start showing up in bet ranks making more people available for grouping and making vet ranks what they are supposed to be.

***Yeah, and most of the casuals will stop right there because they too will see how awfully difficult things are compared to what they were used too leveling up 1-50.

***********The only reason i managed to get to the Daggerfall Covenant was because i had a friend to play with for most of the EP quests. *************

My friendlist is a good example of this. I have some who are Vet 1 and in Stonefalls and haven't been online for weeks. Coincidence?

---

***UNLESS of course, they start GROUPING UP (*not necessarily only in full-on groups, but duo's and trio's will benefit) and WATCHING EACH OTHERS BACK to take on WHATEVER the challenge may be WHEN THEY NEED TO. Then, the middle bulge of players will forge right on into and through the challenges. WHEN the middle bulge of players GET THERE.

Enkil wrote: »

Anastasia wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Lunshea wrote: »

As I initially wrote; more reward vs effort. My guess is that veteran trash, at some point, also will be nerfed slightly...

What worries me about what ZOS said that you quoted is that if that's their entire analysis then it won't deal with the complaints from those like me who aren't bothered about phat lewt drops but the horrible tedium caused by over-buffed trash and the impossibility of completing some quests.

There's no valid reason why level post 50 should be any harder than pre-50 .. phat lewt and hard content belong in optional non-leveling content,

***** VR zones are leveling so shouldn't be brick walls.*****

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I know for definite that vet levelling has driven some of my friends from the game, which is sad because I know that if we had been raiding now they would have stayed.

And I'll be gone with them, as will many more I expect, if this horrible experience isn't seriously toned down, let the phat lewt fixated have their fix in non-main path content all they want but keep such horrible grinds out of the leveling content, were not in the 1990s any more.

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***** VR zones are leveling so shouldn't be brick walls.*****

Unless, of course, the designers of THIS game had plans for less soloing in our Vet levels, for more collective helping in THIS games' Vet levels, for specifically NOT designing skip-over, trivial content only focused on for "grinding" out levels in order to get somewhere else. Perhaps THIS mmo's creators wanted THIS games' Vet Content to be content for GROUPS to take on challenges in and enjoy questlines in and help each other to accomplish things in.

o-0

Well THIS game's quests in the faction zones are designed for solo play... They are dialog heavy and linear. They are not designed for group questing...

Reusing them for veteran content by simply multiplying damage and HP does not change their design.

You agrument only makes sense for Craglorn which was designed for groups. The complaints are about faction vet levels.

---

Really? So, we HAVE to SOLO Vet content eh? You cannot run about with a friend, if not on the exact same step of the exact same quest and give a shout out for some back up? Or you back him up for two or three of his quest steps and then he comes along with you and gives support while you get through a few quests etc?

Really.

When you find it let the rest of us know.

That's all I've done for almost 2 weeks at VR4. Probably get some motivation to try to finish this faction over the weekend, I hope.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

. so they won't be surprised when the majority of the players who enjoyed 1-50 stop paying and playing when they hit LEVELING content of a type they didn't sign up for in the first place.

Bait and switch, anyone?

It would be but I see it as a signal that from that point on the game is going in a very specific direction and if you don't like it then it's time to leave.

And that's fair enough. If they think there's a market for the type of game ESO becomes after L50 then they should go for it.

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

Qumulous wrote: »

This game is not hard at all. A little challenge and people always want the easy button.

Challenging is fine, unmanageable alone is another thing. There's practically no one in the second alliance zones to help one out.

However there's many more people in my first veteran alliance zones, especially Stonefalls which is understandable.

Casuals are just now starting to hit vet ranks. So as time goes on more people will start showing up in bet ranks making more people available for grouping and making vet ranks what they are supposed to be.

What a bizzare, no is yes, black is white answer!

When the casual wave of players hit VR zones, they will get frustrated with VR scaling problems just like the faster levelers. The casuals won't have access to the same insta-level Craglorn anomaly farming 'exploit' that other players (like me) took advantage of during the first few weeks of pre-patched Craglorn. Casuals are in for a long, hard tough slog in VR zones especially if those who rolled one of the gimpier classes, i.e. nightblade.

Not that the VRs aren't boring me to death, because they are, but calling it a 90s style forced group grinder is a massive exaggeration. It still comes no where close to the level of difficulty and need for grouping of the types of games you describe. Better games, I might add.

Also, I don't know what you were told but I never once saw anything that marketed this game as a solo all content game. In fact, I would have noticed that if it had been the case because I assume MMOs are going to be about group content by default, not the other way around. Don't make the mistake of projecting your preferences as something you were promised.

This game lacks group content and groupability so badly it's ridiculous.

Anastasia wrote: »

Unless, of course, the designers of THIS game had plans for less soloing in our Vet levels, for more collective helping in THIS games' Vet levels, for specifically NOT designing skip-over, trivial content only focused on for "grinding" out levels in order to get somewhere else. Perhaps THIS mmo's creators wanted THIS games' Vet Content to be content for GROUPS to take on challenges in and enjoy questlines in and help each other to accomplish things in.

o-0

Well that sort of works for content like bosses, dolmens and dungeons. But it is very brief unless you can get a group to clear a whole zone.

However questing is totally not group friendly, nor is the almanac tedium.

If vet levelling were tied to repeatable public dungeon quests, repeatable group quests or substantial group boss fights then I would agree.

Something like clearing all world bosses in a zone every day. with the chance of a rare drop. Pretty dull grind but standard fare in mmos.

But the almanac quest gating to get to the next zone takes a huge amount of time v xp rewar and unless you are really into questing its far too long.

Also its not the 1-50 levelling that is the issue, its the v1-v12.

Cogo wrote: »

Prokonto wrote: »

Singular wrote: »

You could go grind in Craglorn. Then, when you get sick of that, go back to questing for a bit. It's working for me. But I also don't log in so much anymore and am regretting my sub.

Grind in Craglorn is so effective way to Vr lvling. Just pushed from Vr3 to Vr5 on Kareth of Shadows in less than 3h. Its quite booring but best way.

edit: read "best" as fastest;>

Interesting comment. "Quite boring but the best way".

You know, that is the same answer I have got from several questions to people who became high level very fast.

U know, killin same boss over 200 times must be booring somehow... but i must say that ewery atempt is little different, i dont feel scripting so badly & u must watch those sneaky shadows all time;>

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Casuals are just now starting to hit vet ranks. So as time goes on more people will start showing up in bet ranks making more people available for grouping and making vet ranks what they are supposed to be.

I am vet 8 and i think i am casual too. I play for 1-2 hours a day. When game released i had one week of and could play a bit more.

But Vet zones are not fun for several reasons.

- I don't like the idea fighting against my own alliance. I really don't like that part.
- AD quests/story where not as good as DC's imho. Others might disagree
- I do like the EP quests so far. But i hardly see any players there. Currently in Deshaan, but i see maybe one other player per day and the chat is barren.
- 3 normal mobs is sometimes to hard. They kill me in 2 hits. Healer bosses take to long to kill because of the healing. Still doable, except when there is another mob nearby. It is not fun anymore and gets frustating.


If other "casuals" are still in 1-50 area, wow it must be packed there. Because in vet zone there are so few. I doubt it though because i travelled to 1-50 area's and almost no players there to. And 20 people is few too.

I do like PvP and i play around deshaan for 10 mins and then go to cyyrodil. I do some 20-kills quest capture 2-3 keeps (or defend) and log out.

I keep subbed. Game looks great, and has lots of potential. I look forward to thief guild and so. But i am skeptical of what a V12 will need it for. So you break in and steal a mug and go to jail. Nobody cares. there is also no need to go back to lvl 1-50 area's. Nothing to see there, so I doubt it will work in this mmo. But i keep subbed cause i hope they will create something great.

wrlifeboil wrote: »

What a bizzare, no is yes, black is white answer!

When the casual wave of players hit VR zones, they will get frustrated with VR scaling problems just like the faster levelers. The casuals won't have access to the same insta-level Craglorn anomaly farming 'exploit' that other players (like me) took advantage of during the first few weeks of pre-patched Craglorn. Casuals are in for a long, hard tough slog in VR zones especially if those who rolled one of the gimpier classes, i.e. nightblade.

What a totally wrong statement! Are you making this up?

ALL players who have some sort of experience from ANY MMO, or is a player who likes even RPGs, do expect encounters to get harder to higher level you go.

Of course you are a more powerful character, but that does NOT mean that you kill 4 dragons at once.

Casual players DO expect higher end content to be harder then lower.....
This is a fact, not my view.

Where the HECK did this idea come from? That level 1-50 would be easier the higher level you go?
Almost ALL SINGLE player RPG as well as MMOs gets harder and more complexed events, things to gain the high level you get.

And the statement that ANYONE would expect High end content to be "as easy" as 1-50? That's simply not true.

Ok, WoW players does expect that, but they are a totally different crowd.

I think I never seen such complete rubbish statement about RPG games. Both single and mutliplayer.

Don't feel bad about your situation. I'm an older player, whose game of choice has always been MMO's.
Any MMO that was pretty good to great I've played till I've done practically everything there is to do. I believe I know good pacing in a game that makes things fun, challenging at the right time, and you just can't wait for the next level because things are so much fun.
This game became the opposite for me.

I could write a 5 page essay on what I feel they've done wrong with their first attempt at online play for the Elder Scrolls franchise.

I've been playing on and off since head start, I can't even get one character to veteran level By the mid twenties, I'm ready to do some serious damage to my keyboard. Mind numbing game play being the cause of it.
You tried your hand at MMO's, I can give you a C for you first attempt, but I'm being generous with that.
Its just not working the way a good MMO should work. My long term hope is in the first expansion they release. There they will have the chance to really put things right, after learning the hard way, what they are.

You want to know how off balance ESO has made me? I've gone back to SWToR. That in itself should be enough to tell others just how I feel about ESO.

In my gaming life, I'm sad. I was telling non-Elder Scroll types about it, basically guaranteeing its greatness because of the Elder Scroll games preceeding it.

With egg on my face I humbly admit to being very wrong to those I recommended this game to.

I can say I'm still a bit shocked at how this all turned out. Never did I see this coming.