There isn't any. It is generic content that devs put in to play off some players needs to feel they have fully capped a character and to make us feel as if there is more content than there is.

The game is massive in terms of taking for effing ages to get anywhere, it is GD tiny in terms of anything to do between pointless lengthy journeys

Cogo wrote: »

Prokonto wrote: »

Singular wrote: »

You could go grind in Craglorn. Then, when you get sick of that, go back to questing for a bit. It's working for me. But I also don't log in so much anymore and am regretting my sub.

Grind in Craglorn is so effective way to Vr lvling. Just pushed from Vr3 to Vr5 on Kareth of Shadows in less than 3h. Its quite booring but best way.

edit: read "best" as fastest;>

Interesting comment. "Quite boring but the best way".

You know, that is the same answer I have got from several questions to people who became high level very fast.

1. Why do you use a skyshard addon/map?
2. Why do you follow "leveling guides" in ESO?
3. How the DUZE did you get to highest level so fast? (Question to an own guildie over a month ago)

All 3 questions had the same answer....

I still havn't had 1 second of boring moment in ESO. And apart from extremely frustrating unplayable lag/disconnects in Cyro, that started after some patch, because around level 30 or so (Late may, early june) I was having quite a blast in Cyrodiil!

A lot of the people using skyshard/lorebook add-ons and grinding Crag are doing it to max their toon for PvP. I have no idea why anyone would max their toon for PvE as there's nothing to do once your maxed besides repeat content.

My plan was to max level my PvP toon then focus on PvP. However I wanted to enjoy the story along the way so I took my time to lvl 50 and then when I realised they butchered the story post 50, I tried to speed through the rest of VR, but by completing quests, not grinding in Crag.

I really wish I just ground it out to VR12 at Crag, because running VR content to VR6 burned me out and I gave up on maxing my toon. VR content is a huge drag and feels slapped on to increase the games longevity, but in reality it drove me away from the game in the end. I hope Zeni realise their mistake, I'm sure they have considering the amount of feedback I've seen here on this subject.

Worstluck wrote: »

Not sure what game you are playing @Audigy , but there is literally nothing to do at VR12 except for vet dungeons, Cyrodiil, Trials, or alts, if you have completed the quests, upgraded your gear and got the achievements you want. Those games you mentioned offer much more to do at end game, at least in my opinion. Granted, I don't play any of them anymore and I like ESO now, but there really isn't a whole lot do yet.

I don't think you realize that max level is 50 and not VR 12. The VR´s are not levels, they are an addition for your Char an addition that will be raised by ZO frequently - see it as an extended skill line, comparable to the elder system of WS or some older MMOs.

The only mistake ZO did is that they don't give us a specific VR skill so to speak, so that many players make the mistake and think that VR is still a part of their leveling curve, while its not.

It would had been wiser to give players a specific type of morph ability or a totally new skill line from 50 onwards that can only be learned by doing VR specific content.

Therefore, Level 50 is where we need to start comparing and based on this ESO has a lot more already than WOW ever had at max level.

The system that ESO is using, but also WS gives a player the chance to improve his char past the level cap. This is a system that MMO´s used to have, as in fact the first MMO´s didn't even had levels!

You can like it or you don't, that's your choice. Personally, I prefer games that offer me something at max level instead of telling me "sorry, your game is over and your char is finished now".

ESO while not perfect, lets you customize your Char further due the VR addition and if they do it smart, then nobody ever has to feel bored and Chars will never stop improving and this is indeed what MMO´s were all about in the past.


Right now ZO gave us an MMO for experienced, old school players. If you are one of those and had your fair share of Ultima & Co. then you wont complain much about VR´s. Its just how it all was in the past and its how MMO´s are.

Nonetheless do I understand especially younger folks that grew up with WOW and do now indeed wonder why the game doesn't end and they can finally start grinding a dungeon for 2 years. But understanding doesn't mean supporting and I can only say that these people might have picked the wrong game. WS works very similar to ESO and the complaints there are as big as here. Its a pity I think, as both games brought something back to MMO´s that was long gone - Char development past max level

That said, VR´s can be improved as mentioned earlier in my post - but the basic idea behind VR´s is alright and a great move back to the traditional MMO spirit.

the overly strong trash is fun for about 5 minutes. when i spend 15 minutes or more just trying to walk to a quest objective thats in sight but unobtainable because of the amount of OP trash its just......

im terrified to fight a harvester in a vet level. they are OP corner camping ass-clowns in regular levels where you cant kill the orbs because they spawn on top of the harvester

ndbuddrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Cyrodill is either just an enormous zerg in which you personally have little to no impact, or endless treks across open land to complete the occasional quest. Both of these options, mind you, yield the tiniest, most insignificant of rewards or vet points.

Not an argument, you don't need to join a zerg. Get a proper guild or private group of friends and share the roaming experience ...

But i agree PvP and Vet content should be more rewarding, enabling useful skill points playable by Vets only would be a motivation it was one of the secrets that made DAOC so succesful.

Any other game only offers gear or ratings, imho the most boring pvp rewarding system ever with no motivation factor.

I don't understand why Brian Wheeler did not derive the motivation strength of DAOC PvP. I hope i can ask Matt or Brian next AmA because i would really like to know. Both are so experienced and know so much about motivating players in PvP.

I just hope with the upcoming PvP dungeon (one of the best things in DAOC) they also come up with a better rewarding system for AP and ranks etc..

Tell me the trick to enjoying this game. What are you doing that I am not doing?

A stealth group with some players is a lot of fun, it has been in DAOC and it is in ESO. Way better in ESO because you don't need a specific class to stealth like in DAOC.

Cogo wrote: »

I hate harvesters too....but isnt Craglorn a group zone?

I sure hope that if someone tries to solo in there, they get their butt kicked!

Good that you are terrified to fight a harvester. Me too! I avoid them even in Coldharbour (Dont get any exp, but the explorer in me just cant ignore a zone!)

I am quite certain, without being there, that a group will take care of a harvester.

Again, seams to be a slight problem with player expectations.....

For all Vet players who seen empty vet areas....wait a bit. There are quite a lot of the common ramble, that took our time to get up to vet...that is vet, or about to be.

Think I posted that a few weeks ago, but got laughed at since no one who isnt a vet knows anything about the game....or something was the comment.....

Not sure who you are talking to. But here goes, Harvesters are not relegated to Craglorn only, not sure why you would assume that. Harvesters are not hard to beat just kill the floating orbs and done. Sounds like a L2P issue.

Vet levels are empty because it is a torturous grind. I consider myself a casual gamer. I leveled slowly from 1 to 50, enjoying the story and completing all quests in each zone. I started out AD and have Dominion Hero to prove it. Took me a month to accomplish this. After Vet 1 I realized the grind and it was going to be to obtain VR10 (max at the time) and looked for ways to expedite the process. None at the time so I continued to quest, dolmen, Zone Boss and solo dungeon it out for maximum xp.

Once craglorn hit I was VR8 and ground out a single Vet rank there. I found it boring and decided to go back to the vet zones I had not completed and guess what I found. Ghost zones. Empty. Not enough people to do anything with and the reasons were Craglorn and the horrendous grind. Oh and lets not forget that quite a large amount of the population disappeared, whether to level alts or canceled accounts both irrelevant since there is no one new coming into the zones for weeks now. Poof!

So should we expect this to change? Only if vet leveling is changed. I have been VR 9 now for 3 weeks. I log in and check the zone that is appropriate for my level and nothing. Just the sand blowing.

Mablung wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

I hate harvesters too....but isnt Craglorn a group zone?

I sure hope that if someone tries to solo in there, they get their butt kicked!

Good that you are terrified to fight a harvester. Me too! I avoid them even in Coldharbour (Dont get any exp, but the explorer in me just cant ignore a zone!)

I am quite certain, without being there, that a group will take care of a harvester.

Again, seams to be a slight problem with player expectations.....

For all Vet players who seen empty vet areas....wait a bit. There are quite a lot of the common ramble, that took our time to get up to vet...that is vet, or about to be.

Think I posted that a few weeks ago, but got laughed at since no one who isnt a vet knows anything about the game....or something was the comment.....

Not sure who you are talking to. But here goes, Harvesters are not relegated to Craglorn only, not sure why you would assume that.

He was talking about Crag and had a point that counts for casuals and not for other zones ...

Vet levels are empty because it is a torturous grind.

Thats ***! For a clear minded player there is no reason to stay in these zones after finishing cadwells almanac and farming skill points.

Thats why these zones are mostly empty. Actually not a bad thing for some casuals because they learn how to clear public dungeons and dolmen without leeching through a crowded place with zergs ...

Bromburak wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Vet levels are empty because it is a torturous grind.

Thats ***! For a clear minded player there is no reason to stay in these zones after finishing cadwells almanac and farming skill points.

I have no idea what you are talking about. What does that mean, "clear minded player"? Why wouldn't someone who is trying to complete these zones for content or achievements finish these zones? You do know that you get achievement points for quest completion right? You do know that dye will be obtained through achievement points right?

Anyhow please explain what a clear minded player is. I am baffled.

Audigy wrote: »

Worstluck wrote: »

Not sure what game you are playing @Audigy , but there is literally nothing to do at VR12 except for vet dungeons, Cyrodiil, Trials, or alts, if you have completed the quests, upgraded your gear and got the achievements you want. Those games you mentioned offer much more to do at end game, at least in my opinion. Granted, I don't play any of them anymore and I like ESO now, but there really isn't a whole lot do yet.

I don't think you realize that max level is 50 and not VR 12. The VR´s are not levels, they are an addition for your Char an addition that will be raised by ZO frequently - see it as an extended skill line, comparable to the elder system of WS or some older MMOs.

The only mistake ZO did is that they don't give us a specific VR skill so to speak, so that many players make the mistake and think that VR is still a part of their leveling curve, while its not.

It would had been wiser to give players a specific type of morph ability or a totally new skill line from 50 onwards that can only be learned by doing VR specific content.

Therefore, Level 50 is where we need to start comparing and based on this ESO has a lot more already than WOW ever had at max level.

The system that ESO is using, but also WS gives a player the chance to improve his char past the level cap. This is a system that MMO´s used to have, as in fact the first MMO´s didn't even had levels!

You can like it or you don't, that's your choice. Personally, I prefer games that offer me something at max level instead of telling me "sorry, your game is over and your char is finished now".

ESO while not perfect, lets you customize your Char further due the VR addition and if they do it smart, then nobody ever has to feel bored and Chars will never stop improving and this is indeed what MMO´s were all about in the past.


Right now ZO gave us an MMO for experienced, old school players. If you are one of those and had your fair share of Ultima & Co. then you wont complain much about VR´s. Its just how it all was in the past and its how MMO´s are.

Nonetheless do I understand especially younger folks that grew up with WOW and do now indeed wonder why the game doesn't end and they can finally start grinding a dungeon for 2 years. But understanding doesn't mean supporting and I can only say that these people might have picked the wrong game. WS works very similar to ESO and the complaints there are as big as here. Its a pity I think, as both games brought something back to MMO´s that was long gone - Char development past max level

That said, VR´s can be improved as mentioned earlier in my post - but the basic idea behind VR´s is alright and a great move back to the traditional MMO spirit.

Lvl 50 is literally 1/3 of the content that is required before you can do trials or have access to the best stats and gear. You sill gain attributes as you gain in V rank as well as being able to equip better gear. And this is all mandatory progression.

Suggesting that VR content is endgame is the same mistake that zos made and the main reason people are so disappointed.

Mablung wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Vet levels are empty because it is a torturous grind.

Thats ***! For a clear minded player there is no reason to stay in these zones after finishing cadwells almanac and farming skill points.

I have no idea what you are talking about. What does that mean, "clear minded player"?

You are the one who called it being a torturous grind only to stay there.
So why do you torture your self and grind places that are apparently not worth it?

Common sense!

Why wouldn't someone who is trying to complete these zones for content or achievements finish these zones? You do know that you get achievement points for quest completion right? You do know that dye will be obtained through achievement points right?

You are the one who claims these zones are empty and defined them as a torturous grind only ...

However, its a players choice. Some of them just want to finish cadwells almanac and rush through to get all skill points. Basically, they are done for now because they are not interested in side quests.

And its a lie when you say these zones are empty. Imho they are not crowded any longer because of the fact that peoples having different things todo and are more spreaded after almost 3 month of release.

But there is no reason to stay for grinding low Vet zones. You need 2-3 hours to clear all bosses , dolmens and public dungeons per zone. So what the heck are you doing to call this a torturous grind? If you don't like it , don't do it ...

Bromburak wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Mablung wrote: »

Vet levels are empty because it is a torturous grind.

Thats ***! For a clear minded player there is no reason to stay in these zones after finishing cadwells almanac and farming skill points.

I have no idea what you are talking about. What does that mean, "clear minded player"?

The counter part is someone who is totally out of his mind ...
You are the one who called it being a torture to stay there.

So why do you torture your self and grind places that are apparently not worth it?

Why wouldn't someone who is trying to complete these zones for content or achievements finish these zones? You do know that you get achievement points for quest completion right? You do know that dye will be obtained through achievement points right?

You are the one who claims these zones are empty and defined them as a torturous grind only ...

I am sorry but I cannot understand what you are trying to say. I think you are stating that I continue to grind out those places I feel are torturous? I do not continue to do this. I stopped. That is why I am still VR9. There is no one there to help anyhow and there is no other way to level Vet ranks.

I am not sure but I think there might be a lost in translation moment going on here.

Zenimax always sais, there is no "end content". There is a current high end hard encounter. I THINK right now its the 12 man raid in Craglorn, and winning the Cyrodiil campaign, gettting the highest honor for your guild in Cyrodiil, being able to craft All items in 1 tradeskill, regarding gear, be able to craft the last piece of a Vet set piece, reaching level 5 in undaunted guild with completing their achievements from Vet areas.....

I forgot the rest what the "end game" was, but ESO does not end. The goal with ESO is to have a Living evolving Tamriel, where you are part of its past, present and there will be events where players are deciding tamriels future.

Oh, achievements. In ESO they actually are real achievements. Well, most of em that you need to clear a specific Vet dungeon in time or something. Sadly getting all skyshards is not an achievement for most, because of the fokin addon that ruins that part (I dont use it...)

I think taking your time 1-50 is not just about more fun, explore, finding new things, but also, learning to play the build you are building. (choosing a complete build before you make the character must be one of the biggest mistakes people make in ESO)

Cogo wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Many MMO´s give players only dungeons and raids at Max Level, while I cant speak for everyone I find that extremely boring and dull.

Therefore I am very happy that ESO isn't such a game, as I wont have fun with running one out of 5 dungeons all day to do something useful at max level.

At ESO you have the choice, you can do pvp, run dungeons or quest at max level. Personally I find that choice fair!

Just see it from the perspective of ZO, they created all those nice quest´s and story lines. It would be really sad if all that invested time is wasted when everyone MUST do dungeons past 50.

WOW, GW2, WS and SWTOR all have such a system - if you like to run dungeons only at max level I would advice that you check them out. ESO hopefully doesn't turn into a raid or die game at max level.

Exactly my feeling as well.

Lucky enough, Zenimax long term plan for the game is just that there is NO end game. Only new content, that amazingly they keep connected to lore!
The "end" plan for ESO, is to keep creating an evolving living Tamriel that do change over time, sometimes depending on what we as players do.

An ongoing player experience that you are part of Tamriels past, present and choose your path in its future.

Why are people saying Craglorn is a grind? Do you grind dungeons, the achievements, trails or even the raid there? Is that grinding? I have yet to experience any Craglorn dungeon because I am only Vet 1, but those I will do! Not sure I would do em over and over when I have the whole Tamriels dungeons to choose from. New and changed versions too!

What I can see what Zenimax is focusing on, beside balance and stability, is high end content. Isnt there as bunch of high end stuff in both patch 1.2 and 1.3?

Patch 1.2 and 1.3 also of course includes a bunch of stuffs across the board.

And What about their focus on making vet levels more interesting by adding some sort of points, you can allocate? Kinda a lot of focus going on High end.

And everyone, no matter their level, have Cyrodiil? Ok, there are players who have done it all in Cyro. Managed to win the campagn or own the whole zone. Fair enough.

Have you all done that? I am a NOOB pvper, but got several good experiences from Cyrodiil with a big Army groups. In Cyro, I am not interested in any type of Zerg. But the big groups I got in, ALL pugs, before the big large group bug set in, had a leader, a plan. Sometimes we failed and sometimes I had the honor of contributing to our alliance taking a keep.

Cyrodiil is very well done for PvE players too. If you have not tried it, join the war. Tuesday patch would fix the group lag bug, but a guildie where there today and said it worked fine. I had to check it and Got more exp in 1 hour there, then I had all day.

And if all else fails.....you always have Cadwell.

@Cogo your only vet rank 1? Wow, you must spend like 5 times as long on the forums than you do in the game.