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Bosses in this game are difficult for the wrong reason.
Elyna
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Homing attacks and attacks you simply cannot avoid. This irritates me to no end. The boss shouldnt be hard because of unavoidable attacks, they should be hard because the player was unable to react to them in time. I've been playing Dark Souls and that game IMO has near perfect boss fights. All bosses have attacks that you can avoid damage that can be prevented. Never have I felt cheated because I couldnt avoid something, when I died, I just go "damn, well maybe I should try rolling this direction or going that way while he does that attack" I never died in that game because he threw some homing projectile at me.
In boss fights PROJECTILES THAT FOLLOW THE PLAYER ARE A HUGE NO. Even if it can be blocked, it still shouldnt exist. You shouldnt have to change your fighting style because of one special attack that defies all of your skill and reflexes. When I died in ESO because of a homing attack, I feel cheated, I feel like there was nothing I could do other than slam my face on the keyboard more and chug more potions. When I do beat an ESO boss, I dont feel triumphant, I feel pretty meh afterwards. In Dark Souls, when you beat a boss, it feels awesome and if feels like your skill is what gave you that sweet taste of victory you were able to dodge his attacks and time yours perfectly. This is how a boss fight should feel. I shouldnt be leaving a boss feeling grateful that I was carrying 500 health pots on me.
In boss fights PROJECTILES THAT FOLLOW THE PLAYER ARE A HUGE NO. Even if it can be blocked, it still shouldnt exist. You shouldnt have to change your fighting style because of one special attack that defies all of your skill and reflexes. When I died in ESO because of a homing attack, I feel cheated, I feel like there was nothing I could do other than slam my face on the keyboard more and chug more potions. When I do beat an ESO boss, I dont feel triumphant, I feel pretty meh afterwards. In Dark Souls, when you beat a boss, it feels awesome and if feels like your skill is what gave you that sweet taste of victory you were able to dodge his attacks and time yours perfectly. This is how a boss fight should feel. I shouldnt be leaving a boss feeling grateful that I was carrying 500 health pots on me.
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Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭Not sure which boss....or attack for that matter, you are referring to. There are a few attacks I can remember where you had to have short duration armour boosts on your bar e.g. lightening armour as a Sorc. If its not avoidable it should be mitigatable0 -
Elyna✭✭✭✭Not sure which boss....or attack for that matter, you are referring to. There are a few attacks I can remember where you had to have short duration armour boosts on your bar e.g. lightening armour as a Sorc. If its not avoidable it should be mitigatable
The Harvesters using that soul split or whatever. Any enemy with a ranged weapon
FINAL BOSS SPOILER
Molag Bal spends 90% of the fight throwing fireballs at you that home in.
These mechanics unfairly punish the player regardless of their skill. Also you shouldnt have to mitigate an unavoidable attack. It doesnt add meaningful gameplay.Edited by Elyna on June 19, 2014 10:58AM7 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree, the 'homing fireballs' are stupid and mean even if you do move out of the line of fire when the mob casts you still get hit .. this is why FPS twitch-style mechanics have no part in an on-line game, latency means such mechanics can't work in any realistic manner.2 -
Lodestar✭✭✭✭I have a question. Is Mannimarcos blue beam homing attack interpretable? Or is that guaranteed damage too, like the fireballs.0 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭Not sure which boss....or attack for that matter, you are referring to. There are a few attacks I can remember where you had to have short duration armour boosts on your bar e.g. lightening armour as a Sorc. If its not avoidable it should be mitigatable
The Harvesters using that soul split or whatever. Any enemy with a ranged weapon
FINAL BOSS SPOILER
Molag Bal spends 90% of the fight throwing fireballs at you that home in.
These mechanics unfairly punish the player regardless of their skill. Also you shouldnt have to mitigate an unavoidable attack. It doesnt add meaningful gameplay.
cant recall MB ever hitting me with one of those things so not sure how the homing mechanic is supposed to work. I used the pillars to LOS him a lot so that might have helped. The harvester has an ability that shoots out a cone attack that can be avoided by circling it closely while attacking. It has to stop tracking you for half a second to cast and if you keep circling you move out of the dead zone and are usually behind it when it casts. Not sure if that's the same ability you are referring too but to be honest I find harvesters harder to kill than I did MBEdited by Hilgara on June 19, 2014 11:14AM5 -
Sindala✭✭✭✭✭I think the only reason some bosses are to hard is because they are designed for certain skill sets.
ie, boss 1 is designed to easily fall to a NB but a Mage really struggles ect, if your not the right class for the boss then you will struggle.
The other reason is that the bosses seem to scale with you.
Red boss is too hard so you go away and return when its grey......only to find it still kicks your ass. How????
I still have a Undaunted quest I cant do even though its been grey for about 20 levels now, no matter what I try I just cant last the waves of mobs he sends before the big boss finally puts me out of my misery with 1 hit.Being First is not the prize, it just mean's everyone can stab you in the back.3 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Yup, this is another example of cheesey boss mechanics, blue beams of matter than bend round corners and go straight through solid objects .. even running back to the gate and behind the rock formations doesn't prevent you getting hit.
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on June 19, 2014 11:25AM1 -
Lunerdog✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Yup, this is another example of cheesey boss mechanics, blue beams of matter than bend round corners and go straight through solid objects .. even running back to the gate and behind the rock formations doesn't prevent you getting hit.
Yup, the only thing to do is to hit the Resto staff and hope you can heal fast enough to survive the attack, then go back to chipping away at him.2 -
Carnagan✭✭✭The game works better if you learn to use the Block, Dodge and Interrupt tactics.
Block reduces the amount of damage you take and can be used to gain a few more seconds to recharge magicka or maneuver.
Dodge gets you out of the way of danger areas quickly.
Interrupt stops a power attack or special attack and usually stuns the opponent as well. You can then use that stun to get in a power attack of your own or to recharge a bit.
This isn't a game that let's you win with pure button rotation. Combat isn't perfect, but it's good. I'm OK with introducing an easy mode for people who just want the story or have too much lag or don't have the skills, but the game's difficulty isn't as bad as many people make it out to be. Take your time, approach each battle smart and things will work much better."You dream of the Moon and a man who is less than a man."
Proud explorer of Tamriel since 19965 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭I have a question. Is Mannimarcos blue beam homing attack interpretable? Or is that guaranteed damage too, like the fireballs.
it is interuptable. Problem is he blinks to a distant location just before casting it so you have to reach him before you can interrupt it. I found it better just to heal through it.0 -
Lodestar✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Yup, this is another example of cheesey boss mechanics, blue beams of matter than bend round corners and go straight through solid objects .. even running back to the gate and behind the rock formations doesn't prevent you getting hit.
Yup, the only thing to do is to hit the Resto staff and hope you can heal fast enough to survive the attack, then go back to chipping away at him.
Yeah, except I don't have resto staff. I went along with thinking play any way you like meant. I did not have to equip x weapon and armour, at bosses. Silly me.2 -
Elyna✭✭✭✭The game works better if you learn to use the Block, Dodge and Interrupt tactics.
Block reduces the amount of damage you take and can be used to gain a few more seconds to recharge magicka or maneuver.
Dodge gets you out of the way of danger areas quickly.
Interrupt stops a power attack or special attack and usually stuns the opponent as well. You can then use that stun to get in a power attack of your own or to recharge a bit.
This isn't a game that let's you win with pure button rotation. Combat isn't perfect, but it's good. I'm OK with introducing an easy mode for people who just want the story or have too much lag or don't have the skills, but the game's difficulty isn't as bad as many people make it out to be. Take your time, approach each battle smart and things will work much better.
It seems like you missed my entire point. And play smart? Yeah I could block or avoid it. Thats not my point. My point is that there shouldnt be attacks that you HAVE to block or else it does full damage. Thats not good game design. Like with my Dark Souls example theres not a single boss in that game that forces you do something you dont want to. Theres not attack that you absolutely must block or else it does damage.Edited by Elyna on June 19, 2014 11:51AM1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Have you people ever played an MMO before? Mitigation requirements are a part of the whole concept.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points2 -
Lunerdog✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Yup, this is another example of cheesey boss mechanics, blue beams of matter than bend round corners and go straight through solid objects .. even running back to the gate and behind the rock formations doesn't prevent you getting hit.
Yup, the only thing to do is to hit the Resto staff and hope you can heal fast enough to survive the attack, then go back to chipping away at him.
Yeah, except I don't have resto staff. I went along with thinking play any way you like meant. I did not have to equip x weapon and armour, at bosses. Silly me.
I fell for the play the way you want too, now have two Vet characters "parked" and I'm rolling two Alts while I wait and see what they do with the Vet zones.
Main alt is an ugly duck Argonian healer and tbh he's the easiest character to play, I save my magicka pool for healing and the odd Crystal Blast while nibbling away with the staff.
Wish I could heal like the mob healers do though
Edited by Lunerdog on June 19, 2014 12:00PM2 -
Lisa✭✭✭Simply give us a difficulty bar and be done with it. Keep Cyrodiil as is, if you can't make in Cyrodiil stay out. But come on, I play Elder Scrolls for the stories, crafting and RPG. I'll die a few times and be a happy camper when I beat the boss after using a few healing potions. I don't care about proving myself as a hard core gamer who can kick butt at awesome difficulty. Let me relax and have fun.Blessed are those who explore the unbeaten path...9 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Simply give us a difficulty bar and be done with it. Keep Cyrodiil as is, if you can't make in Cyrodiil stay out. But come on, I play Elder Scrolls for the stories, crafting and RPG. I'll die a few times and be a happy camper when I beat the boss after using a few healing potions. I don't care about proving myself as a hard core gamer who can kick butt at awesome difficulty. Let me relax and have fun.
Difficulty bar + MMO = someone gave you an insightful??? Bad forum! Bad! You go lay down!You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points5 -
Simply give us a difficulty bar and be done with it. Keep Cyrodiil as is, if you can't make in Cyrodiil stay out. But come on, I play Elder Scrolls for the stories, crafting and RPG. I'll die a few times and be a happy camper when I beat the boss after using a few healing potions. I don't care about proving myself as a hard core gamer who can kick butt at awesome difficulty. Let me relax and have fun.
Difficulty bar + MMO = someone gave you an insightful??? Bad forum! Bad! You go lay down!
I did not say it but I'm layin' I'm layin'0 -
Absinthe✭✭✭Well 1st off this is a MMO and not Dark Souls.
2nd your argument in regards to feeling "grateful" about carrying healing potions falls flat as they do have CD's and you can't pop them like candy. It doesn't make a damned bit of difference how many you carry if you can't use them properly.
3rd - learn to block and/or dodge. Those homing missiles of impending doom can be easily mitigated by a simple press of your right mouse button. Try it sometime. You might begin to feel "grateful" for a right mouse button instead of those healing pots you are complaining about.
Sometimes the game forces you to make choices that you would rather not make. Is that really a bad thing? Or do you want to walk up to everything and facetank it with your pure uberness? If so you just might be playing the wrong game.
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LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't mind the homing or unavoidable attacks because they traverse a two-way street as the player's attacks function the same way.
My primary problem with boss fights is the fact that almost every single one of them is a long war of attrition. The vast majority of skills in the game are completely useless in boss fights because the boss is somehow immune to them. Most boss fights are nothing but spams of light and heavy attacks with some blocking and an occasional ultimate thrown into the mix.
Can anyone explain why bosses are immune to so many skills?4 -
Elyna✭✭✭✭
*wooooosh*Well 1st off this is a MMO and not Dark Souls.
2nd your argument in regards to feeling "grateful" about carrying healing potions falls flat as they do have CD's and you can't pop them like candy. It doesn't make a damned bit of difference how many you carry if you can't use them properly.
3rd - learn to block and/or dodge. Those homing missiles of impending doom can be easily mitigated by a simple press of your right mouse button. Try it sometime. You might begin to feel "grateful" for a right mouse button instead of those healing pots you are complaining about.
Sometimes the game forces you to make choices that you would rather not make. Is that really a bad thing? Or do you want to walk up to everything and facetank it with your pure uberness? If so you just might be playing the wrong game.
That was my point going over your head so hard it looked like Superman.
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Absinthe✭✭✭"Massively Multiplayer" I think not.
Then again the way ESO is going currently it might not fit this bill either soon.
Yeah @NateMiddleton, nice edit. No - Dark Souls is not a MMO.Edited by Absinthe on June 19, 2014 12:54PM1 -
Carnagan✭✭✭It seems like you missed my entire point. And play smart? Yeah I could block or avoid it. Thats not my point. My point is that there shouldnt be attacks that you HAVE to block or else it does full damage. Thats not good game design. Like with my Dark Souls example theres not a single boss in that game that forces you do something you dont want to. Theres not attack that you absolutely must block or else it does damage.
I get your point. I just don't agree with it.
Do you realize that there are different things that have to be changed between a single player game and an MMO? You have multiple machines trying to talk to one another over vast differences and also communicating, crunching, and rendering the data they get from one another. It requires certain compromises, otherwise he with the fastest connection and most powerful machine would automatically win.
Lock-on attacks are pretty normal in MMOs, it isn't anything new. That this game requires you to be more involved in the combat sets it further apart from other MMOs though. It doesn't change the fact that can't be just like it is in single player, not with so many people playing at once.
The game would be much easier if you could play without having to do anything more defensive that moving left or right. It instead expects you to do more than button mash attacks and get by on pure DPS. You have to accept that you can't just steamroller everything and that you have to adapt and make choices."You dream of the Moon and a man who is less than a man."
Proud explorer of Tamriel since 19962 -
Carnagan✭✭✭
Translation: Can't actually argue against your points so I'm just going to blithely dismiss them.
*wooooosh*Well 1st off this is a MMO and not Dark Souls.
2nd your argument in regards to feeling "grateful" about carrying healing potions falls flat as they do have CD's and you can't pop them like candy. It doesn't make a damned bit of difference how many you carry if you can't use them properly.
3rd - learn to block and/or dodge. Those homing missiles of impending doom can be easily mitigated by a simple press of your right mouse button. Try it sometime. You might begin to feel "grateful" for a right mouse button instead of those healing pots you are complaining about.
Sometimes the game forces you to make choices that you would rather not make. Is that really a bad thing? Or do you want to walk up to everything and facetank it with your pure uberness? If so you just might be playing the wrong game.
That was my point going over your head so hard it looked like Superman.
"You dream of the Moon and a man who is less than a man."
Proud explorer of Tamriel since 19964 -
Sethowar✭✭I really don't understand how you're saying that a game where you can just stand (strafe) around and press the same few buttons for DPS over and over again is so fantastic.
If people did less early game crafting - or at least kept it to a limited number of disciplines, and made sure to make the most of their skill point opportunities then they could points into abilities that make all of these bosses doable. Every class has a sustain ability, some sort of damage mitigation or escape ability, and a right click and double tap to dodge.
If you think the same 5 (10) + 1(2) abilities will get you through the whole game... thats not a game I want to play. These mechanics compel you to explore the potential of your class a little more, and try and find a combination of abilities and tactics that can enable you to overcome the obstacle. Unavoidable damage is a way to make sure that people aren't getting into a locked out, dry and boring play-through of the game which will become boring a lot faster than a difficult boss fight. This being said, I think a story mode would be a good thing, and fulfil a need for a group of players, but definitely not a priority.
Also... @Sindala... you may find you are in a 4-man dungeon. If the icon is two crossed torches I suggest you get a team of you and three others together before attempting this dungeon, as yes, it will face stomp you. Until you can 1-hit the adds in there, the bosses pump out enough damage that without a tank AND/(or) a healer you won't make it through.1 -
"Massively Multiplayer" I think not.
Then again the way ESO is going currently it might not fit this bill either soon.
Yeah @NateMiddleton, nice edit. No - Dark Souls is not a MMO.
Yep! I tryed to fix my mistake a whole 2 minutes before your post, My Bad but at the same time thanks for going out of your way to point out what was said within the space of 120 seconds. Champ0
