The Upcoming 1.2 Content Update Is an Insult (Except for Nightblades)

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Fuzzylumpkins wrote: »

@ OP, Zos does listen to it's player base. It just does not seem to hear or take anything useful from it.

Think of it in terms of the safety director for Whitestar Line that stated under no circumstance was the Titantic equipped with nearly enough life boats in case of an incident. Harlend & Wolf listened to this plea but failed to hear, stating they knew better and as all know, the Titantic would never sink.

Or Sony Online Entertainment and Lucas Arts listening to literally thousands of forum posters saying that, if they converted their confusing and extremely complex game into one with a class-based system with more streamlined content and iconic figures, it would make Star Wars Galaxies do as well as World of Warcraft.

Even members of SOE stated they new better, and as we all know, that ship sunk too.

Ragekniv · June 2014

Cogo wrote: »

@wafcatb14_ESO

I was in EQ from START, 1999 and went with it 7 years I think. Expansion after planes of power? You are BAM right away EQs amazing skill do to dungeons.
Also, EQ raiding is still something no MMO been able to beat.

Holy hell, I'd almost forgotten about Planes of Power!

Rathe Council:

Bridge two 72 player raids together...
Complete almost two hour clear to council...
Spend almost 6 hours to finish and if one mob breaks enchanter mez its an AOE fest ending for likely over 120 players...
Priceless!

zazamalek · June 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

It looks like this will be fixed once we release our next major content update, which we're still planning to do next week.

Awesome! Such good news!

Mendoze · June 2014

Great news that you are fixing PVP grouping bugs. For me it's insane lag or UI just stops working when I join a bigger raid. I can group just fine with 3-5 people, but bigger groups just cause me lots of problems. If you could also check out what's causing those unknown errors that randomly kicks you out from Cyrodiil, I'd be a happy puppy.

Taiminator · June 2014

I totally disagree with the premise of this thread. There is way too much solo content in this game compared to group content. I've gone pretty lonely questing my way to VR12. Many of my RL friends left the game because of the solo questing and phasing. We bought this game to play together which was incredibly hard in this game apart from the few group dungeons. The instancing and phasing that forces you to play solo may be exactly what OP is wishing for but I think it was a huge mistake for an MMO. If I wanted to play solo I'd be playing one of the many good single-player RPGs out there that don't require a subscription. Please continue to make the game more group-friendly. 7 Veteran group dungeons seems very meagre to me so far. Please don't listen to the soro-onry whiners. They are not what keeps an MMO alive.

SinisterJoint · June 2014

someuser wrote: »

1H/Shield Melee DPS Templar BTW.

Since when ,EVER, is 1hand and shield considered dps? 1hand and shield is for tanking

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

hk11 · June 2014

I don't have a problem with the content of the patch.
I do sort of have a problem with how long the patches are taking. Just some sort of word on what they are doing to fix stamina/melee, along with some sort of timeline would be great. That way I would know if I should keep hanging around or move on until a specific date.

I really get the feeling that we are all just paying for the console port at this point.

nerevarine1138 · June 2014

Aoifesan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Aoifesan wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Most companies don't give their paying customers that much, leave alone the F2P MMO´s where you sometimes wait a half year for a new action bar ...

Still waiting on a fully operational action bar here. 1) 10 buttons per bar. 2) each of those buttons actually executes the ability you expect it to, immediately upon that key being depressed.

They have a long way to go.

That's not an "operational" action bar. That's a different game design.

Sorry my computer has a fully functional keyboard. And I expect to be able to bind ALL the keys to something, like any other COMPUTER game worthy of the name.

Limiting me so you can more easily port your client to Consoles is quite frankly INSULTING.

It has nothing to do with consoles, and everything to do with design choice (unless you thing GW2 was also designed for console porting). A limited action bar forces variety in builds and demands that the player use strategy when loading out their bar.

You may not like it. But plenty of people do. And that still doesn't make it an issue that needs to be "fixed." It just means that you need to adjust your playstyle or find another game that has 100s of buttons on your screen (4 of which you will use with any regularity).

Aoifesan · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Aoifesan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Aoifesan wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Most companies don't give their paying customers that much, leave alone the F2P MMO´s where you sometimes wait a half year for a new action bar ...

Still waiting on a fully operational action bar here. 1) 10 buttons per bar. 2) each of those buttons actually executes the ability you expect it to, immediately upon that key being depressed.

They have a long way to go.

That's not an "operational" action bar. That's a different game design.

Sorry my computer has a fully functional keyboard. And I expect to be able to bind ALL the keys to something, like any other COMPUTER game worthy of the name.

Limiting me so you can more easily port your client to Consoles is quite frankly INSULTING.

It has nothing to do with consoles, and everything to do with design choice (unless you thing GW2 was also designed for console porting). A limited action bar forces variety in builds and demands that the player use strategy when loading out their bar.

You may not like it. But plenty of people do. And that still doesn't make it an issue that needs to be "fixed." It just means that you need to adjust your playstyle or find another game that has 100s of buttons on your screen (4 of which you will use with any regularity).

Plenty of people think that the mechanic of, If only I had ability X slotted, I would have OWNED that, is fun?

And that 'dying' and doing it again with that ability slotted instead is preferable to doing it, the first time, with that ability, without ever 'dying' because you are a bad ass hero and not the ever dying ***?

nerevarine1138 · June 2014

Aoifesan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Aoifesan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Aoifesan wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Most companies don't give their paying customers that much, leave alone the F2P MMO´s where you sometimes wait a half year for a new action bar ...

Still waiting on a fully operational action bar here. 1) 10 buttons per bar. 2) each of those buttons actually executes the ability you expect it to, immediately upon that key being depressed.

They have a long way to go.

That's not an "operational" action bar. That's a different game design.

Sorry my computer has a fully functional keyboard. And I expect to be able to bind ALL the keys to something, like any other COMPUTER game worthy of the name.

Limiting me so you can more easily port your client to Consoles is quite frankly INSULTING.

It has nothing to do with consoles, and everything to do with design choice (unless you thing GW2 was also designed for console porting). A limited action bar forces variety in builds and demands that the player use strategy when loading out their bar.

You may not like it. But plenty of people do. And that still doesn't make it an issue that needs to be "fixed." It just means that you need to adjust your playstyle or find another game that has 100s of buttons on your screen (4 of which you will use with any regularity).

Plenty of people think that the mechanic of, If only I had ability X slotted, I would have OWNED that, is fun?

And that 'dying' and doing it again with that ability slotted instead is preferable to doing it, the first time, with that ability, without ever 'dying' because you are a bad ass hero and not the ever dying ***?

Well, if you go into a boss fight with, say, a bunch of CC abilities slotted, you'll learn very quickly that many bosses can't be CC'd. And I'd wager that while the experience of dying may not be fun, many people (myself included) enjoy figuring out how they can change their bar to be better able to take out that particular boss.

And dying is how you learn in an MMO. This isn't Skyrim. You're supposed to die in order to learn what techniques are/aren't working. If you could steamroll through all the content, the game would be boring.

Aoifesan · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Aoifesan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Aoifesan wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Aoifesan wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Most companies don't give their paying customers that much, leave alone the F2P MMO´s where you sometimes wait a half year for a new action bar ...

Still waiting on a fully operational action bar here. 1) 10 buttons per bar. 2) each of those buttons actually executes the ability you expect it to, immediately upon that key being depressed.

They have a long way to go.

That's not an "operational" action bar. That's a different game design.

Sorry my computer has a fully functional keyboard. And I expect to be able to bind ALL the keys to something, like any other COMPUTER game worthy of the name.

Limiting me so you can more easily port your client to Consoles is quite frankly INSULTING.

It has nothing to do with consoles, and everything to do with design choice (unless you thing GW2 was also designed for console porting). A limited action bar forces variety in builds and demands that the player use strategy when loading out their bar.

You may not like it. But plenty of people do. And that still doesn't make it an issue that needs to be "fixed." It just means that you need to adjust your playstyle or find another game that has 100s of buttons on your screen (4 of which you will use with any regularity).

Plenty of people think that the mechanic of, If only I had ability X slotted, I would have OWNED that, is fun?

And that 'dying' and doing it again with that ability slotted instead is preferable to doing it, the first time, with that ability, without ever 'dying' because you are a bad ass hero and not the ever dying ***?

Well, if you go into a boss fight with, say, a bunch of CC abilities slotted, you'll learn very quickly that many bosses can't be CC'd. And I'd wager that while the experience of dying may not be fun, many people (myself included) enjoy figuring out how they can change their bar to be better able to take out that particular boss.

And dying is how you learn in an MMO. This isn't Skyrim. You're supposed to die in order to learn what techniques are/aren't working. If you could steamroll through all the content, the game would be boring.

And in the best of all possible worlds you switch to a different bar with different skills (mind you, you already know these skills) And find what does work, ON THE FLY.

I know the tiny minds out there need to take extra time to consider what does work in a given situation, but those that possess a realistic view and quick wit, don't fancy being slack witted because of game mechanics.

Sorry, Jerry Rice I couldn't throw that post pattern to you I had my quick slant bar and my hand the ball to Roger Craig bar slotted up - Joe Montana.

nerevarine1138 · June 2014

Aoifesan wrote: »

And in the best of all possible worlds you switch to a different bar with different skills (mind you, you already know these skills) And find what does work, ON THE FLY.

I know the tiny minds out there need to take extra time to consider what does work in a given situation, but those that possess a realistic view and quick wit, don't fancy being slack witted because of game mechanics.

Sorry, Jerry Rice I couldn't throw that post pattern to you I had my quick slant bar and my hand the ball to Roger Craig bar slotted up - Joe Montana.

Look, as much as you truly want to believe that this is all some big conspiracy related to the console release: there are other games like this. Many MMOs are breaking away from the WoW style of button-saturation because it's a terrible system. It results in a screen full of buttons, but most of them are only pressed once or twice a month. It results in standard rotations that are the same across all characters of the same class, and it completely kills build variety.

Again, you may not like the way that ESO's system works. But it's an intentional design choice. It was deliberate. It is a specific combat system that many people like because it creates build variety and forces them to think strategically. It's not a bug. It's not a "step backwards" (this system is actually newer than the design you propose). It's an integral feature of the combat system.

LonePirate · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

And dying is how you learn in an MMO. This isn't Skyrim. You're supposed to die in order to learn what techniques are/aren't working. If you could steamroll through all the content, the game would be boring.

Please remember that what you find interesting and fun, someone else may find boring and a chore. The opposite may be true as well.

I am not saying they people should be three shorting bosses. I just don't think learning curves should be so extreme that only one obscure skill or technique is effective against a boss. I also don't think a 20 minute war of attrition is a good mechanic for a boss fight, either. And under almost no circumstances should mobs cause more pain and death than bosses.

nerevarine1138 · June 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

And dying is how you learn in an MMO. This isn't Skyrim. You're supposed to die in order to learn what techniques are/aren't working. If you could steamroll through all the content, the game would be boring.

Please remember that what you find interesting and fun, someone els may find boring and a chore. The opposite may be true as well.

I am not saying they people should be three shorting bosses. I just don't think learning curves should be so extreme that only one obscure skill or technique is effective against a boss. I also don't think a 20 minute war of attrition is a good mechanic for a boss fight, either. And under almost no circumstances should mobs cause more pain and death than bosses.

That's a separate issue that has nothing to do with limited actionbars.

I happen to not be having problems in VR content, but that isn't the discussion at hand. It also doesn't change the fact that MMO learning curves revolve around dying. How do you learn that you should stay out of the big red circles? By standing in them one time and discovering that you die pretty fast. How do you learn when to use CC abilities effectively? By using them at the wrong time and dying for it. You are supposed to die in an MMO. That's why death isn't permanent.

LonePirate · June 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

And dying is how you learn in an MMO. This isn't Skyrim. You're supposed to die in order to learn what techniques are/aren't working. If you could steamroll through all the content, the game would be boring.

Please remember that what you find interesting and fun, someone els may find boring and a chore. The opposite may be true as well.

I am not saying they people should be three shorting bosses. I just don't think learning curves should be so extreme that only one obscure skill or technique is effective against a boss. I also don't think a 20 minute war of attrition is a good mechanic for a boss fight, either. And under almost no circumstances should mobs cause more pain and death than bosses.

That's a separate issue that has nothing to do with limited actionbars.

I happen to not be having problems in VR content, but that isn't the discussion at hand. It also doesn't change the fact that MMO learning curves revolve around dying. How do you learn that you should stay out of the big red circles? By standing in them one time and discovering that you die pretty fast. How do you learn when to use CC abilities effectively? By using them at the wrong time and dying for it. You are supposed to die in an MMO. That's why death isn't permanent.

I am not advocating the removal of obvious and common learning situations like the red zone of pain and death. I simply think boss fights should not be limited to extreme situations where only one obscure technique is the key to success. I have a problem with the game when a player goes through 10-15 abilities on their bar and none of them work. That's not a learning experience for the player. That's the game rigging itself against the player, which is wrong.

I personally love the dual bars with five slots each. I don't want that changed. I just want more (not all just more) reasonable tactics to be effective.

Matheusbr0 · June 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We will have at least one more set of patch notes to add to 1.2 before it goes live next week. We are also working on a status update on other game content and systems (such as our plans for stamina/weapon ability builds, Templars, and Heavy and Medium armor) that we hope to share with you this week.

Thank good!!! Finaly you guys figured that everyone is wearing light armor due to the fact that medium and mostly heavy armor suck!!

Also you guys figured out how bad stamina based skills are!!!

Hope now those two things will get balanced with light armor and magicka skills...

nerevarine1138 · June 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

And dying is how you learn in an MMO. This isn't Skyrim. You're supposed to die in order to learn what techniques are/aren't working. If you could steamroll through all the content, the game would be boring.

Please remember that what you find interesting and fun, someone els may find boring and a chore. The opposite may be true as well.

I am not saying they people should be three shorting bosses. I just don't think learning curves should be so extreme that only one obscure skill or technique is effective against a boss. I also don't think a 20 minute war of attrition is a good mechanic for a boss fight, either. And under almost no circumstances should mobs cause more pain and death than bosses.

That's a separate issue that has nothing to do with limited actionbars.

I happen to not be having problems in VR content, but that isn't the discussion at hand. It also doesn't change the fact that MMO learning curves revolve around dying. How do you learn that you should stay out of the big red circles? By standing in them one time and discovering that you die pretty fast. How do you learn when to use CC abilities effectively? By using them at the wrong time and dying for it. You are supposed to die in an MMO. That's why death isn't permanent.

I am not advocating the removal of obvious and common learning situations like the red zone of pain and death. I simply think boss fights should not be limited to extreme situations where only one obscure technique is the key to success. I have a problem with the game when a player goes through 10-15 abilities on their bar and none of them work. That's not a learning experience for the player. That's the game rigging itself against the player, which is wrong.

I personally love the dual bars with five slots each. I don't want that changed. I just want more (not all just more) reasonable tactics to be effective.

And currently, that's the case. When I say that tactics need to be switched, I'm talking about the opposite of build homogenization. Each class/build has access to a number of different abilities that can come in handy in different situations. Learning how to use those effectively is what's creating some really unique builds.

Inzababa · June 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

While I am glad some fixes and love are being shown for Nightblades in 1.2.x, the actual content update part of the patch is a complete insult to players. Adding a new veteran dungeon is the absolute bare minimum that could be done to include new content in the patch. All the devs need to do is take an existing dungeon, turn on the Veteran flag and populate it with existing NPC creations, perhaps giving them new names, a new paint job, a new size and maybe a new ability in their new VR level. Voila! You now have a veteran dungeon. I just watched that 1.2 Crypt of Hearts video and it is an insult to players that this is the new content we are receiving with this patch. It really is the least work they could do to consider this patch a content update and I expect them to play this card again in future updates because it is so cheap and easy.

Besides, didn't we just receive a dozen or so veteran group dungeons and delves with the 1.1 patch? Were people really clamoring for another group dungeon even though a growing number of players is exhausting the solo/duo content with each passing day? This question is rhetorical because I already know the answer but does ZOS actually listen to its players and subscribers?

where did you get that info?

I'm trying to find out what will be in next week's content but can't find the posts

thanks

Worstluck · June 2014

Inzababa wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

While I am glad some fixes and love are being shown for Nightblades in 1.2.x, the actual content update part of the patch is a complete insult to players. Adding a new veteran dungeon is the absolute bare minimum that could be done to include new content in the patch. All the devs need to do is take an existing dungeon, turn on the Veteran flag and populate it with existing NPC creations, perhaps giving them new names, a new paint job, a new size and maybe a new ability in their new VR level. Voila! You now have a veteran dungeon. I just watched that 1.2 Crypt of Hearts video and it is an insult to players that this is the new content we are receiving with this patch. It really is the least work they could do to consider this patch a content update and I expect them to play this card again in future updates because it is so cheap and easy.

Besides, didn't we just receive a dozen or so veteran group dungeons and delves with the 1.1 patch? Were people really clamoring for another group dungeon even though a growing number of players is exhausting the solo/duo content with each passing day? This question is rhetorical because I already know the answer but does ZOS actually listen to its players and subscribers?

where did you get that info?

I'm trying to find out what will be in next week's content but can't find the posts

thanks

Check out the PTS section. It's got the relevant patch notes, although they have stated the patch will be 1.2.3, so we aren't entirely sure what's going to be included in that over the current 1.2.2.

Inzababa · June 2014

Worstluck wrote: »

Inzababa wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

While I am glad some fixes and love are being shown for Nightblades in 1.2.x, the actual content update part of the patch is a complete insult to players. Adding a new veteran dungeon is the absolute bare minimum that could be done to include new content in the patch. All the devs need to do is take an existing dungeon, turn on the Veteran flag and populate it with existing NPC creations, perhaps giving them new names, a new paint job, a new size and maybe a new ability in their new VR level. Voila! You now have a veteran dungeon. I just watched that 1.2 Crypt of Hearts video and it is an insult to players that this is the new content we are receiving with this patch. It really is the least work they could do to consider this patch a content update and I expect them to play this card again in future updates because it is so cheap and easy.

Besides, didn't we just receive a dozen or so veteran group dungeons and delves with the 1.1 patch? Were people really clamoring for another group dungeon even though a growing number of players is exhausting the solo/duo content with each passing day? This question is rhetorical because I already know the answer but does ZOS actually listen to its players and subscribers?

where did you get that info?

I'm trying to find out what will be in next week's content but can't find the posts

thanks

Check out the PTS section. It's got the relevant patch notes, although they have stated the patch will be 1.2.3, so we aren't entirely sure what's going to be included in that over the current 1.2.2.

thanks

Rodario · June 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

stamina/weapon ability builds, Templars

ThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyouThankyou

dsalter · June 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We are also working on a status update on other game content and systems (such as our plans for stamina/weapon ability builds, Templars, and Heavy and Medium armor) that we hope to share with you this week.

Thank you as this is most appreciated. This sort of information is exactly what needs to be communicated to the player base. I probably am speaking for a lot of players when I say I wish fixes and items of this nature would take priority over another new (and unwanted) veteran group dungeon.

no truer words besides buff templar were said, hire this guy

RatsnevE · June 2014

SinisterJoint wrote: »

someuser wrote: »

1H/Shield Melee DPS Templar BTW.

Since when ,EVER, is 1hand and shield considered dps? 1hand and shield is for tanking.

I can answer that. You see ESO is a hybrid MMO that doesn't follow any set rules. You might not do well at all thinking you are a DPS when you really are tanking and just don't know it... Just like my NB thinking she should be able sneak up and whack good some forced solo boss for some serious health but repeated gets no satisfaction because it ISN'T IN THE SCRIPT 'STUPID'.

We not only now have some legitimate class imbalances (so I've read) we get to mix it up with scripts that mask out that there really isn't any imbalance but a flawed design or an inadvertent bug.

It seems to me now that you can do whatever you want with a sword & shield and call it whatever you want too and lastly die for it.

jonpaul · June 2014

Wow, think about how much pressure is on just that one statement about stam builds/Templars. Hopefully it will be a wonderful change but so much could be riding on it as people are practically foaming at the mouth for some type of improvement. I know I will be eagerly waiting to see what comes of this.

Rodario · June 2014

jonpaul wrote: »

Wow, think about how much pressure is on just that one statement about stam builds/Templars. Hopefully it will be a wonderful change but so much could be riding on it as people are practically foaming at the mouth for some type of improvement. I know I will be eagerly waiting to see what comes of this.

I'm trying to keep my hopes down, so I'm going with

"Templar
- To improve Templars' resource management, +1% native magicka regeneration has been added.
- Biting jabs will now only affect three enemies, as intended.

General
- Raised the overcharge threshhold for stamina.
- Adjusted the stamina tooltip to show how much damage it adds to base weapon damage."

Phantorang · June 2014

Any update, is a good update. That is the rule of MMORPG patching IMO.

Right now its class balancing and bug fixes that is the more urgent issue. After they have made Templar the main DPS in the game they can start:

-Building a 40 man raid.
-Open world PvP (lets do spy missions in other alliances)
-And more stuff...

RatsnevE · June 2014

If I'm solo in Cyrodiil out in the AD wilderness and your EH or DF spy mission were to say 'capture' me could I turn into a mole to spy for you and in return would you give me 'safe passage' throughout your Cyrodiil realm in order to solo its quests and skyshards without concern of being PK'd?

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

i dont think so. What we want is bug fixes, not pushing out more content, possibly with a lack of Thourough quality testing. It hasnt even been that long since 1.1.2, so the one extra dungeon we are getting is a good amount.

RatsnevE · June 2014

I find it an intriguing thought all the same since I would be able to wander around those necks of the woods and when finished turn double-agent and report back to the AD your movements. Then I'd have to work the third alliance side of Cyrodiil too. I don't think I would be left alone for long and would get whacked often. To bad I can't put this imagination into any real play in Cyrodiil.

NinjaApacHe · December 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

zazamalek wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

it focuses more on fixes [...] We will have at least one more set of patch notes to add to 1.2 before it goes live next week.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ please tell me that the group fixes are finally making it in! Us PvP players have been weathering it since launch. Last night after the 10th or 11th group DC due to a large group I saw the majority of 2 guilds rage quit.

PvP players have a harder skin when it comes to bugs, I think that that skin may finally be wearing thin. It's killing us (quite literally, actually, it has a knack for catching us before a fight) and we really need to just hear something about it. Pretty please.

To re-iterate, it's two (possibly related) issues.
Main issue: Large groups have become "unstable" since 2-3 patches ago. 1-2 members will DC occasionally, after ~1hr the more members will start DCing and eventually it quickly cascades to the whole group.

Main issue: Large groups have always (possibly not in beta, but certainly during early access) crashed if members are in different zones. Different zones can mean maps or even people in a dungeon (e.g. a group in Cyrodiil with a member in one of the Cyrodiil dungeons).

Sometimes members will DC the group no matter where they are. We had a player crash a group no less than 5 times last night even though he was in Cyrodiil.

Similarly, some members will always crash the very instant they join the group. This was me last night, one specific group was instantly crashing me (I suspect a player in the group was causing it). Everyone else in the group was fine. I'm not the only one in my guild to experience this - it seems to randomly select a victim.

I usually (80%) DC when I am in any type of group near a large fight. When I am solo this is not a problem (meaning it's not my internet connection or something environmental).

It looks like this will be fixed once we release our next major content update, which we're still planning to do next week.

Never been fixed. Group lag is a pain in the .......