Have the bots won?

ozgod22_eso

No

There have definitely been more bots in ESO than I've seen in other MMOs, but to put things in perspective, this is less than two months out of launch. This is the time that you will see a lot of botting and gold farming in MMOs. It usually drops off when some of the early adopters leave to try other games launching like Wildstar.

I'm no fan of these bots and would rather they be eradicated sooner rather than later, but let's be realistic - the reason bots are there are because: 1) there are unscrupulous people who use bots to generate resources, be that gold or character levels or gear; and more importantly 2) there are people willing to pay real money to obtain those services. In many cases these botters aren't even selling gold at all - they just have a website front to capture credit card information that they will then use for fraudulent purposes.

I think rather than asking "have the bots won" less than two months out of launch, we have to be realistic about what Zenimax, or any online publisher, can do. Until you remove the demand for these services people will just figure out ways to beat the system. No company has unlimited resources to police this 24/7, not when you have a subscription model game where new content needs to be worked on and pushed out and existing content needs to be refined and bug fixed, in such a short time out of launch. For every dollar spent on a GM being online watching for bots to ban them (which is like that little Dutch girl putting her fingers in the holes in the dike), it's a dollar that is not spend on those other things. This isn't a single player game with no demand for real money transactions. This is the real world where unfortunately crime happens despite our best efforts. Possibly the Elder Scrolls franchise, with its reputation for immersion, would have drawn a higher proportion of single player gamers for whom these bots are an unpleasant surprise which could account for some of the hysteria surrounding this at this early stage of the game.

Even WoW had bot problems for years. At one point during Burning Crusade I remember seeing gold sellers "advertise" their websites by coming up with dead gnome bodies spelling out the website in all major cities in the game. Even now in PvP there are a lot of bots grinding out honor points for gear. The powerlevelling bots have only just now dropped off because Blizzard is now offering max level characters for money on their own website, thus eliminating the need for botting for powerlevelling.

The main issue right now I feel is not so much botting, but MULTIBOXED botting - where you see bot trains running around zones. Haven't really seen those in other MMOs, particularly in quest areas where they can be easily seen by many. I must admit I haven't read through Zenimax's EULA to see what their policy on multiboxing is - in other MMOs multiboxing is allowed as long as it is a) player controlled and b) each boxed character is on a separate paid-for account. But in any case, it's the fact that you have multiboxed bots that makes this issue so noticeable.

Maverick827

Yes

I votes "yes" simply because of ZOS's lack of communication regarding the root cause of bots - repair costs, respec costs, and bank/inventory upgrade costs.

demendred

No

Yes.

And by yes, I mean no. Days still young.

reggielee

No

i voted no, as its not the bots the problem but cheating players. People seem to think its some vague gold farmer running most of these bots but its that player next to you in pvp, standing in epic gear trash talking you. He used scripts bought off web sites to powel lvl his alts, farm epic mats so he can have the best gear. Its that pvp guild full of supposedly leet players all in epic gear and with a stable of vet 10 char trash talking and ruining pvp with their exploits. Its those players who tell others to quit whining and kick others out of groups for not having epic gear or who spam l2p in forums.

so no, the bots didnt win, but the lame impulse driven short term attention span loser player who may win by driving off real players.

zhevon

Yes

Can't even figure out how to report them anymore.

Laura

No

too soon to tell. seriously do people even remember bots falling from the sky to form corpse made website advertisements in WoW?

steveb16_ESO46

Yes

The other thing with LOTRO is that its game design worked against the mass botting we see. Questing was one time and repeatable quests instanced and required complex group mechanics to get through. Valuable objects bound on acquire and there were no huge gold sinks like respec and repair.

All MMO's should be defensively designed against gold sellers. Would ESO have been any worse if public dungeons had been non-respawning instanced for 1-4 players? Or if infinite loot dropping bosses didn't instantly respawn? Or if there was a limit on the number of toons you could delete a day?

Or if repair and respecs were 90% cheaper?

Or if there were level range restrictions for teleporting into a region?

Etc.

The reason this game is infested with bots is that its design left it both wide open for exploitation and demands insatiable amounts of gold for repairs and respeccing.

hauke

No

i haven t seen any bots in most places level 30+

i see a few in coldharbor

i have seen no bots in vet rank levels

bots have not won they win in low level at the moment maybe

but

they will not win in the long run

they will be allways there, some. but i don t think they can win

they can t win because they just use the game

zenimax makes the game,

zenimax can change the game so bots loose

bots can t change the game, bots loose

takes time and money but if zenimax gets time and money bots will be a very rare species

Bolo_Bob

Yes

i voted yes.

because when they start making timers and loot nerfs that affect regular players they are winning in my book.

loot nerfs atm is debate able tho, as its said to be a conspiracy and others believe it is real.

basically all im saying is when bot behavior starts to have impacts on regular players that are "fixes" set by the Dev's, then the bots are winning.

guess we will have to wait and see if they put loot timers on regular mobs next, because bot trains farming high mob areas in quest and normal area's.

kewl

Yes

hauke

No

short term adaption is not equivalent to long term solution

zenimax reacted to bots swarming dungeon bosses , result no more bots swarming dungeon bosses

not a solution but it worked for most players

hauke

No

btw the biggest problem is that credit companys allow the use of stolen credit cards

thats how bots are made, because credit card companys allow the thiefs to use stolen credit cards / credit card data

credit card are not safe the way they are used

credit card systems are from the 50´ of last century creditcard companys are not living in the 21st century

steveb16_ESO46

Yes

hauke wrote: »

bots can t change the game, bots loose

'Knock, knock.'

'Who's there?'

'Botswho.'

'Botswho what?'

'Bots who can fly, drop in infinite numbers from the sky, teleport from place to place and travel underground.'

The problem is that they are all too successful at changing the game if you ask me.

gladen5rwb17_ESO

Yes

Until I can go out and harvest without a bot getting to the node first, or enter an quest area that is not empty from bots mob camping and so forth, I vote yes. The longer they remain in such numbers, the longer it takes me to get my crafting leveled. It takes so long to get enough ore and jute it is holding me back.

SantieClaws

No

I played LOTRO for six years. I think the gold selling issue was far more a problem on the US servers than the EU ones. As an EU player I only saw goldseller spam after Turbine took central control of all the servers.

Also LOTRO has a significant number of servers. ESO has just two megaservers meaning any potential bot immediatley can reach and effect a larger playerbase at once.

LOTRO also has in game GMs. Or at least any GM seems to have the ability to go in game if they need to.

The central AH per server may also have helped keep people from wanting to buy gold as it was very easy to buy and sell the things you want and to see what things were really selling for across the server.

Gold was also pretty easy to get once you were past level 10. You could make far far more than you were ever going to spend. No need to buy from a goldseller what you can make by selling one crafted relic. It was also possible to mail gold and items to your own alts as long as you could get to a mailbox. A shared bank system came later, but each alt retained their own vault space too.

Sadly also LOTRO has been destroyed by Turbine's blazing focus on squeezing every penny possible out of the playerbase. No goldseller is interested in a very poorly MMO with probably a declining playerbase. Shame as it was a great six years. I'll pop back now and again but most of my kin have left and it feels like a very lonely world now.

Dita

Yes

Watch and read it as: There is no Dana ZoS, only Zuul Bots”
Customers like: "I wanna talk to Dana (ZoS), Dana (ZoS)"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg7MAacSPNM

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO

Yes

AngryNord wrote: »

I've played through most of the intro areas in LoTRO, and have so far seen one gold spammer in in-game chat.

Lord of the Rings is a PC game, made by professionals, funded by Warner Brothers.

Elder Scrolls is a console game, made by rookies, funded by Zenimax.

You figure it out.

Flayedalive

No

No, they have not won the war. A few battles may be theirs but they will lose tge war in the end. Just need ZOS to tighten the screws their end and bots should become a black page in the history of this wonderful game.

Jarvius

Yes

At the moment: Yes
In the long run? Who knows...

When they change boss loot tables the small dungeons and amend the loot percentage in drawers, chests, etc. the bots already have won some battles.
If then the Bots go outside and play in i.e. Coldharbor and run around in circles in groups of 5 players ranging between level 44 and vet 1 (even that they had reported some time ago already), the bots again have won some battles.
When the bots fly around Bangkorai in large amounts, doing the delivery-quests, they have won a battle.

On the other hand I see way less spam in zone chats than in the beginning, so I don't know if that is not already a good sign.

ThisOnePosts

No

It's nice and bot free in the final veteran alliance zones. The only issue are people spamming for groups to "farm" dungeons --- like Fungal Grotto and Wayrest Sewers, somehow people are glitching out the final boss to keep killing it and getting ridiculous amounts of XP. <<<< The good news for us legit players is that ZOS can track this. Which is also bad news for those exploiters (inb4 an exploiter comments how it's not an exploit).

SantieClaws

No

"michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO wrote: »

Lord of the Rings is a PC game, made by professionals, funded by Warner Brothers.

Elder Scrolls is a console game, made by rookies, funded by Zenimax.

You figure it out.

I have never ever heard any LOTRO player descibe either Turbine or Warner Brothers as professional - well professional money gougers maybe. I have heard them called many choice other things though .....

In the integrity stakes ZoS are about a billion miles ahead at the moment.

Knovah

Yes

First let me say this: I love the game. I love the graphics, game play and the immersive feel it gives (gave) me. I am a big supporter of zos and this game.

Now with all that said, I unsubed (still game time till June just in case). I had to I could not take the bots any more.

Just hold on a moment before those who declare anyone who has an opinion other than what they think, jump on the "haters go away" bandwagon, let me say why. (If you check my other posts you will see I am a supporter of this game, but even I have a limit)

I play with my boyfriend a lot of the time…those who have read other posts know he is waiting for the console version and is now playing the pc version till then, anyway he is mainly a pvp'er and I like the crafting and questing. I have many times, taken my temp and pocket healed him in pvp and it is mildly amusing. He of course lives for pvp and is leveling mostly in it when possible. I will run about skipping and frolicking on my battle mage questing and singing a merry tune as I gather along the way, always with a smile and just a relaxed breath of fresh air for me.( even with the quest bugs I still held firm and worked around it)

I am no longer frolicking and giggling about... a few bots I can handle, no problem they are in most every mmo to a degree. I can avoid gathering and still enjoy questing and dungeons... nope... bots, bots and more bots … it takes a lot to frustrate me but I must have the worst luck in the world because I cannot gather without rushing to beat a bot ( and that is not relaxing and fun) dungeons same same .. Mail spam is terrible and now my inbox on forums …sigh…. It is frustrating. (Yes I report)

I admire those that can stick it out, but as laid back as I am and as frustrated that it gets me in game, some of you must have nerves of titanium. I always said when a game is no longer fun I will move on. It is no longer fun and relaxing for me to always rush ahead of a bot train.

Zos will get it fixed and when that happens I will return. I said before I am not a fangurl, I am fickle I have no loyalty to any game. I love and adore the game but I am no longer having fun or relaxing ….

So yeah bots won this battle imho….. But I hope to return when it is better.

* And no you can't hazs my stuffs Boyfriend has laid claim to most of it. He can careless about bots he is all about pvp.

Hope to see you all soon ( I hope they fix them )…Happy Hunting

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO

Yes

goldsellers are NOT the problem.

the problem is:

the engine allows to teleport/clip in each coordinate x,y,z (with memory editing) and no server check

nope, i am not a bot, but i am aware of zos´s fail


to specify that:
Client is x.y.z ........ client edits memory and ist x.y.z-50 and reports that to server
Server sais "ok maybe you had lag i take your new coords" (not checking if you clipped anything)
Client "muhaaaaaaahhaa"


and that is not just for some clipping but also for flying etc


just e simple but brutal engine fail by not defining "out of bounds" coordinates or simply not checking (needs serverpower)

snigernissen

Yes

i voted yes mainly due to the fact that most of the steps ZOS have taken to fight the bots, ended up hurting the legit players more than the bots and that bots/RMT's are now charging insane amounts of gold or real money for pixels...

I see tons of bots all over, from starter zones to vet zones on the EU server
I see tons of RMT in the same places and also on the forums posting people
I see less action from ZOS fighting this than before ( either they are dropping a MAJOR bomb on them in like 2 weeks or they really gave up )
I see dead people.... wait what ??!?

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO

Yes

...and i forgot, did you see the pricedrop on accounts

a normal account key is right now 20-30 bucks and descending ( 6 weeks after off release) ... compare that to the preorders (that should be cheaper than later accounts)

JJDrakken

Yes

Yes. Hell look at Windhelm, I lost count at 47 different bots, doing the in town starter quests then teleporting(not normal, but literally just ported off into same direction as the others)

They do those quests over & over & over. Zone's are empty in many places cuz of Bot Trains. Coldharbour is officially Botharbour now.

It's bad, very very bad.

Getorix

Yes

I think they are winning but they wont win the war, Bots cannot win. Either zennimax wins and gets rid of the bots or zennimax cant get rid of them, the game dies and everyone loses.

Thorntongue

Yes

Iseke wrote: »

There are no bots at all in the veteran content, so nope they don't win.

Says the guilty party.

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO

Yes

and yes, there are bots in v1-5 right now, just some , so i think thats some player scripts. (because they needed to kill molag bal)
and "omg" in v10 zones are scripted players too ( so this is not just a bot/chinafarmer issue) ... V1-10 are just keyboard scripted players, not the "hard bots "

the bot plague is still 1-50

Bhakura

Yes

kewl wrote: »

thx goddammit, now im thirsty ...