STOP BUYING GOLD FROM THE BOTS: BAN ANYONE WHO DOES!

TheGrandAlliance

...and the bots will go away.


When will people figure this out? Or do we simply have to put up with a bunch of losers who buy gold... thus ruin the game for everyone else.

WE should be /report and /ban the players who BUY the gold. It is time that ZeniMax decided that loosing subs to bot armies /grief gameplay is worse of a problem then the loss of subs due to cheaters being banned.


In either case: STOP BUYING FROM THE BOTS! YOU ARE THE ENEMY!

ebunts14_ESO

ZOS need to ban not just the botters but those that they trade with. But ZOS is not serious about stopping botting. If they was, they would have GM in game 24/7 banning the accounts until botters get tired of it.

TheGrandAlliance

Indeed... and it is very easy to figure it out: GM's can track everything a banned bot account did. By "taking away" the gold from the buyers you will dry up the market very fast.

People paying 200K+ for a motiff? Do they run an organized price fixing operation on their server? Many of these people are BOT BUYERS.

AlexDougherty

Agreed.

Ban the buyers as well as the sellers, not only do we make it unprofitable for the bot runners and gold sellers (same people), but we protect the weak minded from giving credit card details to dodgy websites (because they'll get banned if they do, so they won't)

Soloeus

Or:

BAN GOLD BUYERS.

Gold Buyers create the economy of Gold Sellers.

Part of the reason people buy gold is because of increasing debt through rapid gear decay, low loot, high respec cost, inability to get loot from bosses/dungeons.

Another part of the reason for an economy of Real Money Trade is because the number of hours it can take to get X gold versus the number of hours to earn X Dollars with which to buy X gold makes it more time economical to cheat.

This holds true with why people bot as well.

The best way to handle it is:

Un-nerf loot, and dungeons, cut respec costs in half, unified Auction House for entire faction. Ban players who buy gold.

Ban accounts by every measure; each computer leaves a unique digital footprint. Ban them by that. Buyers and sellers alike.

Remove multi-boxing aka multi-clienting, the floodgate of all botting.

Behavior can be functionally deterred instead of empowered and encouraged.

TheGrandAlliance

Soloeus wrote: »

Or:

BAN GOLD BUYERS.

....thats what me thread's OP says:) Plez reread to make sure.

GreySix

Without drug addicts and those who purchase illicit drugs, there would be no illicit drug trade and associated criminal activity.

Ah but human beings and their consistent shortcomings...

steveb16_ESO46

And how do you detect players who buy gold? By all means do it but how do you detect them? Guy puts up 10 lots of 10 jute and gold seller buys them for 500gp each so delivering the 5000gp he's purchased? What you going to do?

Manually assess each transaction over 500 gp? Then it goes to 5 jute for 250gp.

These are long-established companies who are experienced and clever. They know how to deliver gold.

Or they send you an ancient elf symbol and then 'buy' it from you for a legitimate looking 10k.

Banning gold buyers is easier said than done i'm afraid. That's why a broad spectrum multi-front approach is needed.

And how do you detect multi-boxing? I could multi-box using a different proxy for each account.

This is computing - not magic.

TheGrandAlliance

PLayers cannot do that much... nonetheless GM's have full traceablity over everything. If you know of people who "brag" about buying stuff with gold they bought you can /report them.

Tarwin

One would think they could trace back items gold to account or player name? If it came from aaaghyt , then flags should be a waving .. big red ones

GreySix

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

PLayers cannot do that much... nonetheless GM's have full traceablity over everything. If you know of people who "brag" about buying stuff with gold they bought you can /report them.

... and you can often rely on stupid people doing stupid things, like bragging about flagrant violation of rules and procedures.

Giving folks enough rope with which to hang themselves can often provide amusing results.

Arwyn

This, and make it public, oh so very public that you have done it!

steveb16_ESO46

gamebouncerb16_ESO wrote: »

One would think they could trace back items gold to account or player name? If it came from aaaghyt , then flags should be a waving .. big red ones

On what basis? Tell me. I've sold 10 things for 500gp to a gold seller so as to receive my 5000gp. On what basis are you going to detect that? Are you going to check every transaction to see if the buyer might be using sales to transfer gold?

There's no magic wand to be waved here.

And you can assume I don't go immediately into Zone Chat to brag about it.

TheGrandAlliance

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

There's no magic wand to be waved here.

...no. How it works is that GM's do research on banned accounts. They see players who they traded large sums of gold with. They ban the accounts.


Problem solved.

steveb16_ESO46

And then ban accounts on what basis? You seem to imagine we're dealing with amateurs. These companies have been running for years in many games. You honestly think things are that easy?

That banned accounts haven't laundered gold through perfectly legit accounts? money laundering in and out of the real world is sophisticated and we're talking big, successful corporations/criminal organisations not kids.

If they were gold selling wouldn't be problem in the first place.

TheGrandAlliance

The gold has to come from someone. They can see players who receive large amounts of gold and follow it back. They can see bots pooling the gold together. It simply requires skilled logic to find the answers. If NSA can do it... I think ZeniMax has a shot.


Goldselling is a problem because 1. People buy gold 2. Botters flood the game with accounts. IT is simply a numbers game... not that ZeniMax cannot do anything about it.

Tarwin

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

gamebouncerb16_ESO wrote: »

One would think they could trace back items gold to account or player name? If it came from aaaghyt , then flags should be a waving .. big red ones

On what basis? Tell me. I've sold 10 things for 500gp to a gold seller so as to receive my 5000gp. On what basis are you going to detect that? Are you going to check every transaction to see if the buyer might be using sales to transfer gold?

There's no magic wand to be waved here.

And you can assume I don't go immediately into Zone Chat to brag about it.

So you have a character name like "aaaghyt " ? As I mentioned?

Exivus1

Love how every time a guy comes in and says "it simply requires XYZ" - like ZOS doesn't have that and *he* does, the ole high-and-mighty logic-haver. There's obviously more to it than you're not grasping.

Same with politics, economics, monday-morning quarterbacking, etc. If your response begins with "all you have to do is" or "it simply requires", then you don't have a full appreciation and scope of complex systems or their requirements to operate.

TheGrandAlliance

Exivus1 wrote: »

Love how every time a guy comes in and says "it simply requires XYZ" - like ZOS doesn't have that and *he* does, the ole high-and-mighty logic-haver. There's obviously more to it than you're not grasping.

Same with politics, economics, monday-morning quarterbacking, etc. If your response begins with "all you have to do is" or "it simply requires", then you don't have a full appreciation and scope of complex systems or their requirements to operate.

YOu are missing the point: My OP should be obvious to everyone that is true. What is not so is that ZeniMax has yet to fully commit to banning botting activities. It is a business decision... they don't want to ban paying sub customers who cheat.

The solution is very simple. It is a mere matter of will.

steveb16_ESO46

Sorry - but you're hopelessly naive if you think the randomly named characters are the ones delivering the gold. They are harnessing materials that go though a chain of characters and transactions that ends up being gold. This gold makes its way through other transformations into the hands of perfectly clean accounts, quite probably in small amounts.

Money laundering is a long established science in and out of games.

ViciousMink

If you ban gold buyers... the bots will NOT go away. There is a huge profit margin to this business, and there will always be a handful of people who either think its worth the risk; that it won't happen to them; or don't give a damn anymore and if they can't get their shinies quick they'd be quitting anyway so if they get banned and get a refund, so what?

The goldsellers have seen how easy it is (at this time) to bot ESO. I would even hazard, right or wrong, that they see ZOS's lack of concrete, widespread action against bots (as opposed to the bandaids of GMs manually banning obvious bots) as being tacit approval. They will continue so long as botting itself is unaddressed. Yes, definitely, find a way to ban the gold buyers; they are abetting behavior that is disrupting the game experience for others. But don't think that going after them will solve the bot problem. The bots will remain, for the above reasons.

TheGrandAlliance

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Sorry - but you're hopelessly naive if you think the randomly named characters are the ones delivering the gold. They are harnessing materials that go though a chain of characters and transactions that ends up being gold. This gold makes its way through other transformations into the hands of perfectly clean accounts, quite probably in small amounts.

Money laundering is a long established science in and out of games.

You are forgetting everything is traceable. Everything the small acounts did can be traced to bigger accounts. There is no break in the chain.

Exivus1

I don't believe the solution is that simple, and I'm sure they have the will. However, whether they have the manpower or organizational prowess to efficiently harness that manpower in the most effective way (or have their priorities in order) is another thing.

One thing is clear, we speak out about it regularly and that should be keeping it fairly high the priority list.

That's all this forum (and others) is really going to net out, here - priority of what gets yelled about the most against the economics of what they can do with [presumably] millions of accounts.

TheGrandAlliance

ViciousMink wrote: »

But don't think that going after them will solve the bot problem. The bots will remain, for the above reasons.

If you banned 100% of gold buyers... the gold sellers would be bankrupt. BOts would be gone.

EVen a smaller number would destroy their margins and lead to same result.

Niliu

Why not just report the sites to the FBI Cyber Crimes Unit? I mean the gold spammers post the names of the websites. That gives the FBI an "in" on how to track the origin of the sites. They can shut the original site down, and block the creators from creating new ones.

TheGrandAlliance

Niliu wrote: »

Why not just report the sites to the FBI Cyber Crimes Unit? I mean the gold spammers post the names of the websites. That gives the FBI an "in" on how to track the origin of the sites. They can shut the original site down, and block the creators from creating new ones.

...yes a more complex action that would require ZeniMax lawyers doing things. Has been done before. Giving FBI taskload it is unlikely this solution would provide a result though...

GreySix

No course of action will eliminate gold-sellers and bots, but properly executed courses of action can minimize their impact on paying subscribers.

steveb16_ESO46

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Sorry - but you're hopelessly naive if you think the randomly named characters are the ones delivering the gold. They are harnessing materials that go though a chain of characters and transactions that ends up being gold. This gold makes its way through other transformations into the hands of perfectly clean accounts, quite probably in small amounts.

Money laundering is a long established science in and out of games.

You are forgetting everything is traceable. Everything the small acounts did can be traced to bigger accounts. There is no break in the chain.

I'm beginning to think you are trolling now. How many detectives do you propose ZMO hire to sift through the tens if not hundreds of thousands of transactions that occur each day?

And I ask again? Where does the chain start? And don't wave your magic wand and say 'banned accounts'.

What banned accounts? Banned on what basis?

The one in 200 of those spawning flying bots by the second that happens to get caught? One of those drops in the ocean? One of those drops in the ocean with tenuous and hard to trace links through cut offs to actual sellers?

I say again - if it was this easy money gold selling would not be a problem in any game in the first place.

Yet we live in a world where gold selling corporations thrive.

Because basically Blizzard et al couldn't be arsed?

Or because it's not that easy?

ViciousMink

GreySix wrote: »

No course of action will eliminate gold-sellers and bots, but properly executed courses of action can minimize their impact on paying subscribers.

Oh, absolutely. I'm just saying that this is not a single solution.

Exivus1

Niliu wrote: »

Why not just report the sites to the FBI Cyber Crimes Unit? I mean the gold spammers post the names of the websites. That gives the FBI an "in" on how to track the origin of the sites. They can shut the original site down, and block the creators from creating new ones.

What in the living hell.

Doctoruniverse

Solution is to increase to drops until items become so common that bots cant survive. Not increase demand by nerfing the drops to insane amounts.

Its in zenimax hands. Its their fault that bots are so rampant in the game. Not the players.