I shall drink glasses full of werewolf tears this day!

Contrabardus

Ravinsild wrote: »

I have a veteran rank 2 and a veteran rank 4 vampire, and I have leveled both to vampire rank 10 and I give out free bites once a week.

I can confirm: Supernatural Recovery with 2 skill points invested works. Unnatural Resistance works. Undeath works. Savage Feeding works. Blood Ritual works...and Dark Stalker works until you die.

How can I confirm? My Veteran Rank 4 Vampire was cured and lost a lot of survivability without the heals from Drain Essence and Undeath.

Upon regaining my vampirism back my magicka and stamina recovery suddenly became overcharged as I invested the points into Supernatural Recovery.

How can I confirm Blood Ritual works? I've been turning people every week.

How can I confirm that Unnatural Resistance works? Monitoring my HP regeneration levels constantly between phases and whilst leveling my vampiric forms (You drop something like 20 HPR from Stage 1 to Stage 4, it's a massive difference, but less so with Unnatural Resistance. Still not worth being lower than Stage 2 ever, however, discounts to skills be damned)

Perhaps the only passive that doesn't work is the Stage 2-4 discounts, but I never bothered to drop below Stage 2 for any amount of time to notice because I can't stand how hideous stage 4 is.

Whilst sometimes the abilities do break (I've been stuck in that strange drain position before) their benefits far outweigh the werewolf actives, so really it is sunshine and rainbows.

With Pounce you: Move to another target dealing barely any damage and over half the time bug out.

With Drain Essence you: Barely ever run into problems and gain massive health and stamina gains (enough to fill your stamina bar from empty as a stamina heavy build using 3/5 weapon skills from the two-handed line tree in regular rotation) in addition to stunning your target effectively removing them from combat for the duration. The drain is so powerful that 90% of damage taken by nearby mobs is ignored or mitigated so powerfully it is virtually undetectable giving you insane surviability from massive groups of mobs as you alt tab and drain when needed through them or 1v1 with powerful mobs who are not immune to its effects.

With Roar you: Can fear up to 3 targets...they can often run into other packs of mobs and aggro them, cannot control the direction the mobs move to shepard them into a bad location and often have clumsy/botched follow ups including Pounce half the time not knocking down the vulnerable mobs as it properly should.

With Mist Form you: Can escape danger by moving quickly away, even though the effect is now weaker than before. You can soak more damage than normal. Helps you in retreating in-case you pull too many mobs (somehow).

The werewolf ultimate is required to unlock the above two abilities that do jack-all...and costs 1,000.

The Vampire Ultimate deals AOE damage for a powerful amount, can heal you or turn you invisible granting even more survivability and costs 200.

Seriously try out both sides and max them out to 10 like I have (twice for vampires) before you speak.

Vampires are still a force to be reckoned with in PvP as well. When have you EVER seen a werewolf in PvP and it actually did anything note worthy? Where are the YouTube videos for that, or the forum complaints? Why is nobody talking about Werewolves in the Alliance War section?

Because they're utter rubbish for PvP and barely, BARELY viable for PvE...meanwhile the vampire.. despite the nerfs still offers a TON in flexibility, surviability, damage and over-all enjoyable experience.

We have about the same level of experience then, so I guess I can speak. I've only got one lvl 10 Vamp char, but I've leveled WW to 10, dumped it and moved over to vamp on the same toon.

You can't do anything 'quickly' in Mist Form. You'd do just as well running away. Movement speed is exactly the same. What's worse is that Elusive Mist is also the exact same as your running speed. I've followed several other players around a bit to confirm this.

I also did say that the vamp Ult is a bit OP and works as it should. It's not any more prone to spamming than most of the class Ults are anymore with the right passives. No more stacking is a good thing.

I can confirm that passives routinely stop working with death, particularly damage mitigation. I take much more damage from mobs after a death than I do before. Not just fire based damage, but it's more noticeable with fire damage.

Being stage 2 or better helps, but I spend a lot of time at stage 3 and 4 and it makes a huge difference when these passives stop working.

I'm also a NB, which also has a ton of bugged passives. So some of what I'm feeling as a vamp when my passives go out may be that end as well. It doesn't explain the majority of the issues though.

I said Blood Ritual works. Blood Ritual = Bite Skill. Perhaps you thought I meant "Feed". That's more of a mechanic, it's not slotted so it's not really a skill. It does provide a stun effect, but it's not really useful even for surprise as it negates any possible use of Drain. Useless for anything but managing your vamp state.

Vamp is basically whatever class you have plus a bunch of vulnerabilities after the first death in PvP, in PvE it's the same thing, but with a nice health/stamina drain ability. Drain is essentially useless in any PvP fight that isn't 1v1 as every DK who sees it will claw root you and lay into you with whatever fire based attack they've got.

The root works on Mist cloud as well, and Mist can also be broken with bash. Elusive Mist completely lost it's passive bonus. It's exactly the same as Mist Form now. At the very least Mist should be treated as a 'flying' creature and not be vulnerable to immobilize or snare. In fact, that would be a nice trade off for the loss of speed. I get that they might want to knock the Elusive Mist speed down a bit, but it should be fixed so that the morph bonus actually works at least.

How much damage you can do is based on your skill level, but being a vampire provides more disadvantages than advantages in PvP. It is not on equal standing with everyone else. Being a skilled player compensates for that.

Staying fed helps, but it also ups the cost of abilities. I can and do manage just fine, but so do most WW players. As I mentioned, unless you're ambushing 1 on 1, Drain Essence is pretty useless in PvP. Especially considering how prone it is to not working and either breaking off early gaining you little benefit, or getting stuck in the animation leaving you vulnerable. It can be used, but due to it's range and flighty nature it's most often not worth it.

The issue here is that the skill lines are broken, and everything Zeni has done to vamp with the sole exception of bumping the cost for Mist and making Bat Swarm unstackable, has made the situation worse and further broken a skill line that was already pretty well busted to begin with.

WW isn't any better off, but they at least are able to function like a normal player in PvP. Poison damage is pretty rare and usually low damage when a skill does have it, and FG passives are only effective when in WW form.

Due to the loss of what little protection they have from passives and the incredibly common use of fire and FG moves Vamps have it worse in PvP than WWs do.

Aside from a slight vulnerability to a rare damage type and maybe the loss of an Ultimate slot WW players are the same as any normal PvP player. Ultimate slot shouldn't be a factor as WW players should really invest the 2 sp in another anyway.

So, no. WW players may not find their powers useful in PvP, but they aren't any worse off than most other non monster players for the most part. Vampires on the other hand require a skilled player to survive in PvP due to the vulnerabilities the skill line gives. The recent updates have only made those weaknesses worse.

Grao

Contrabardus wrote: »

Ravinsild wrote: »

I have a veteran rank 2 and a veteran rank 4 vampire, and I have leveled both to vampire rank 10 and I give out free bites once a week.

I can confirm: Supernatural Recovery with 2 skill points invested works. Unnatural Resistance works. Undeath works. Savage Feeding works. Blood Ritual works...and Dark Stalker works until you die.

How can I confirm? My Veteran Rank 4 Vampire was cured and lost a lot of survivability without the heals from Drain Essence and Undeath.

Upon regaining my vampirism back my magicka and stamina recovery suddenly became overcharged as I invested the points into Supernatural Recovery.

How can I confirm Blood Ritual works? I've been turning people every week.

How can I confirm that Unnatural Resistance works? Monitoring my HP regeneration levels constantly between phases and whilst leveling my vampiric forms (You drop something like 20 HPR from Stage 1 to Stage 4, it's a massive difference, but less so with Unnatural Resistance. Still not worth being lower than Stage 2 ever, however, discounts to skills be damned)

Perhaps the only passive that doesn't work is the Stage 2-4 discounts, but I never bothered to drop below Stage 2 for any amount of time to notice because I can't stand how hideous stage 4 is.

Whilst sometimes the abilities do break (I've been stuck in that strange drain position before) their benefits far outweigh the werewolf actives, so really it is sunshine and rainbows.

With Pounce you: Move to another target dealing barely any damage and over half the time bug out.

With Drain Essence you: Barely ever run into problems and gain massive health and stamina gains (enough to fill your stamina bar from empty as a stamina heavy build using 3/5 weapon skills from the two-handed line tree in regular rotation) in addition to stunning your target effectively removing them from combat for the duration. The drain is so powerful that 90% of damage taken by nearby mobs is ignored or mitigated so powerfully it is virtually undetectable giving you insane surviability from massive groups of mobs as you alt tab and drain when needed through them or 1v1 with powerful mobs who are not immune to its effects.

With Roar you: Can fear up to 3 targets...they can often run into other packs of mobs and aggro them, cannot control the direction the mobs move to shepard them into a bad location and often have clumsy/botched follow ups including Pounce half the time not knocking down the vulnerable mobs as it properly should.

With Mist Form you: Can escape danger by moving quickly away, even though the effect is now weaker than before. You can soak more damage than normal. Helps you in retreating in-case you pull too many mobs (somehow).

The werewolf ultimate is required to unlock the above two abilities that do jack-all...and costs 1,000.

The Vampire Ultimate deals AOE damage for a powerful amount, can heal you or turn you invisible granting even more survivability and costs 200.

Seriously try out both sides and max them out to 10 like I have (twice for vampires) before you speak.

Vampires are still a force to be reckoned with in PvP as well. When have you EVER seen a werewolf in PvP and it actually did anything note worthy? Where are the YouTube videos for that, or the forum complaints? Why is nobody talking about Werewolves in the Alliance War section?

Because they're utter rubbish for PvP and barely, BARELY viable for PvE...meanwhile the vampire.. despite the nerfs still offers a TON in flexibility, surviability, damage and over-all enjoyable experience.

We have about the same level of experience then, so I guess I can speak. I've only got one lvl 10 Vamp char, but I've leveled WW to 10, dumped it and moved over to vamp on the same toon.

You can't do anything 'quickly' in Mist Form. You'd do just as well running away. Movement speed is exactly the same. What's worse is that Elusive Mist is also the exact same as your running speed. I've followed several other players around a bit to confirm this.

I also did say that the vamp Ult is a bit OP and works as it should. It's not any more prone to spamming than most of the class Ults are anymore with the right passives. No more stacking is a good thing.

I can confirm that passives routinely stop working with death, particularly damage mitigation. I take much more damage from mobs after a death than I do before. Not just fire based damage, but it's more noticeable with fire damage.

Being stage 2 or better helps, but I spend a lot of time at stage 3 and 4 and it makes a huge difference when these passives stop working.

I'm also a NB, which also has a ton of bugged passives. So some of what I'm feeling as a vamp when my passives go out may be that end as well. It doesn't explain the majority of the issues though.

I said Blood Ritual works. Blood Ritual = Bite Skill. Perhaps you thought I meant "Feed". That's more of a mechanic, it's not slotted so it's not really a skill. It does provide a stun effect, but it's not really useful even for surprise as it negates any possible use of Drain. Useless for anything but managing your vamp state.

Vamp is basically whatever class you have plus a bunch of vulnerabilities after the first death in PvP. Drain is essentially useless in any PvP fight that isn't 1v1 as every DK who sees it will claw root you and lay into you with whatever fire based attack they've got.

The root works on Mist cloud as well, and Mist can also be broken with bash. Elusive Mist completely lost it's passive bonus. It's exactly the same as Mist Form now. At the very least Mist should be treated as a 'flying' creature and not be vulnerable to immobilize or snare. In fact, that would be a nice trade off for the loss of speed. I get that they might want to knock the Elusive Mist speed down a bit, but it should be fixed so that the morph bonus actually works at least.

How much damage you can do is based on your skill level, but being a vampire provides more disadvantages than advantages in PvP. It is not on equal standing with everyone else. Being a skilled player compensates for that.

Staying fed helps, but it also ups the cost of abilities. I can and do manage just fine, but so do most WW players. As I mentioned, unless you're ambushing 1 on 1, Drain Essence is pretty useless in PvP. Especially considering how prone it is to not working and either breaking off early gaining you little benefit, or getting stuck in the animation leaving you vulnerable. It can be used, but due to it's range and flighty nature it's most often not worth it.

The issue here is that the skill lines are broken, and everything Zeni has done to vamp with the sole exception of bumping the cost for Mist and making Bat Swarm unstackable, has made the situation worse and further broken a skill line that was already pretty well busted to begin with.

WW isn't any better off, but they at least are able to function like a normal player in PvP. Poison damage is pretty rare and usually low damage when a skill does have it, and FG passives are only effective when in WW form.

Due to the loss of what little protection they have from passives and the incredibly common use of fire and FG moves Vamps have it worse in PvP than WWs do.

Aside from a slight vulnerability to a rare damage type and maybe the loss of an Ultimate slot WW players are the same as any normal PvP player. Ultimate slot shouldn't be a factor as WW players should really invest the 2 sp in another anyway.

So, no. WW players may not find their powers useful in PvP, but they aren't any worse off than most other non monster players for the most part. Vampires on the other hand require a skilled player to survive in PvP due to the vulnerabilities the skill line gives. The recent updates have only made those weaknesses worse.

I am sorry but you are just... wrong. Vampires lose their passives when they die? Werewolves can only use their passives in the 30 seconds their ultimate may last. I am sorry, do you die every 30 seconds? I don't.

Vampires can use all their abilities, not only the vampire ones, but also the other skill lines, weapons, etc. Werewolves have a total of TWO abilities... One bugs in the animation 10 -25% of the times causing you to die or at a minimum lose the ww form. The other ability, Roar, as mentioned fear enemies into other mobs and agroos them, that when it activates properly... Sometimes all it does is consume stamina (I am sure you know how it feels, being a nightblade and all). So... as a vampire you have all your abilities, + your ultmate that is awasome... Werewolves have 2 bugged abilities and about 10 skill points in passives they can use once every 15 minutes if they are lucky and constantly farming mobs of their lvl.

I am sorry... Vampires need to be fixed? Yes... But don't compare your situation to that of werewolves.

MasterLanz

Morbus2 wrote: »

Vamps only have it slightly better than WWs do because the only skills that work without issues are the Ult and the Bite Skill. You try to make it sound like Vamp is all sunshine and rainbows compared to WW, but the skill line is just as broken and vamps only have it any better because they don't have to transform.

Compared to werewolf it is sunshine and rainbows. I don't think you understand what this 'fix' does. Werewolf is purely a penalty now. It does nothing, nothing beneficial for the character anymore. The ult is now useless in the only situation it used to be useful, meaning all that being a werewolf 'contributes', now, is a 50% poison weakness, and a bunch of wasted skill points. You get nothing positive from being a werewolf now. At least vampire, for all its own bugs, at least does something for your character. At least there are a few benefits, even if they might not seem like they're worth the drawbacks anymore.

There isn't even that for werewolves now. There is nothing at all redeeming about the skill tree now.

Contrabardus

I did say that WW has it worse, several times in fact.

WW can use their skills and abilities, just not in WW form, and WW form doesn't last all that long. When in human form they still have access to the same skills and slots that every other player has. The argument that WW doesn't have access to all it's abilities is unimpressive, especially considering that's how it's supposed to work.

Even if everything was exactly as it should be, WW would not have access to other skills in WW form. I'm willing to bet you knew that before you got bit. That's not a relevant issue in the context of the thread.

What I said was that some people are trying to make it sound like Vampires have it better than they actually do.

In a PvP setting, WW are at least as good as a non monster character with a nice piece of gear to negate their weakness. Yes, WW form isn't useful in PvP, but it's also not a constant weakness to fire, broken passives, skills that often don't work as they should, and an appearance that stands out and says "Hey! Fire kills me easy!".

There also isn't much to feed on in PvP areas for either WW or vamp. I didn't say nothing or that it's not possible, but it takes a lot more effort to find a meal and keep fed as a vampire than it is in any other area. A WW in human form has fewer weaknesses and drawbacks caused by bugged and broken skills than a Vampire in PvP.

In PvP, vampires have it worse than WW do. WW is only really an issue in PvP if you transform. FG abilities are favorites in PvP, so it would be bad even if WW was working as it should for PvP anyway.

WW players don't even need to lose an Ult in PvP considering how useless it is in the PvP area. Just invest two of the more than 300 sp available in the game in an alt Ult for areas where WW form isn't useful. Even in PvE areas it would be useful to have an alt Ult, just slot the WW Ult on one bar and the alt Ult on the other.

In PvE WW definitely has it worse, but being a Vamp isn't exactly wonderful with how things are right now. The Drain ability is buggy, but a lot more useful, and that does help a lot. The Ultimate is nice as well, but everything else is pretty much not working right.

Fire resist gear is a must of course, but due to the stage debuffs that somehow work when the passive buffs do not, it's not nearly as effective as it could be at anything but Stage 2. I know I can stay fed, that's not the point. The skill line is broken and Stage 2 only mitigates the issues a little. I shouldn't need to stay fed to mitigate broken skills and passives. That only helps reduce fire damage, everything else is still broken.

Stop making it sound like I said that WW is working perfectly fine or that Vamp is somehow a hundred times worse. Both lines are broken badly, vamp has it better in PvE, but WW has it better in PvP since they're basically the same as any other player in human form with the exception of a poison weakness, and nobody uses poison abilities.

I also don't recall saying that one should have precedence over the other in regard to being fixed. It's being implied that I did and nothing of the sort was posted.

MasterLanz

Contrabardus wrote: »

In a PvP setting, WW are at least as good as a non monster character with a nice piece of gear to negate their weakness. Yes, WW form isn't useful in PvP, but it's also not a constant weakness to fire, broken passives, skills that don't work as they should, and an appearance that stands out and says "Hey! Fire kills me easy!". There also isn't much to feed on in PvP areas. I didn't say nothing or that it's not possible, but it takes a lot more effort to find a meal and keep fed as a vampire than it is in any other area.

You do realize that nearly -everything- you just said is worse for WW than vampire?

Instead of a constant weakness to fire, they have a constant weakness to poison. While not in ww form, that weakness is coming for NO offsetting benefits at all. While IN werewolf form, what do you think is more obvious? A PC with pale skin (who potentially could be covered head to foot in armor), or a man-sized wolf?

Not much to feed on with vampires? Try feeding as a werewolf. Try killing anything within 20 seconds and then having enough time to sit there and eat it, while knowing that, unlike vampire, who feeds occasionally and optionally, a werewolf has to feed constantly and loses the form completely if they don't.

Yeah, it's hard on vampires, sure. But it's worse in every way for a werewolf.

Ravinsild

I like the argument "It's better to be a werewolf in PvP as long as you AREN'T A WEREWOLF."

Are you serious? "You have access to all your normal abilities as a werewolf" gee...so do vampires. And they get extras!

Bow weapons have 3/5 skills in the line that can be morphed for poison and to say that bows are rarely used, or that the skills that apply poison damage are uncommonly used (SNIPE, BREAD AND BUTTER BOW SKILL) is sheer ignorance.

Basically you argument is "As long as you take off your ultimate from your bar and never let anyone know you're a werewolf you have it better."

HOW IS THAT BETTER? I WANT to be a werewolf, that's the entire *** point, excuse my french.

Are you serious about this case you're making?

Contrabardus

MasterLanz wrote: »

Contrabardus wrote: »

In a PvP setting, WW are at least as good as a non monster character with a nice piece of gear to negate their weakness. Yes, WW form isn't useful in PvP, but it's also not a constant weakness to fire, broken passives, skills that don't work as they should, and an appearance that stands out and says "Hey! Fire kills me easy!". There also isn't much to feed on in PvP areas. I didn't say nothing or that it's not possible, but it takes a lot more effort to find a meal and keep fed as a vampire than it is in any other area.

You do realize that nearly -everything- you just said is worse for WW than vampire?

Instead of a constant weakness to fire, they have a constant weakness to poison. While not in ww form, that weakness is coming for NO offsetting benefits at all. While IN werewolf form, what do you think is more obvious? A PC with pale skin (who potentially could be covered head to foot in armor), or a man-sized wolf?

Not much to feed on with vampires? Try feeding as a werewolf. Try killing anything within 20 seconds and then having enough time to sit there and eat it, while knowing that, unlike vampire, who feeds occasionally and optionally, a werewolf has to feed constantly and loses the form completely if they don't.

Yeah, it's hard on vampires, sure. But it's worse in every way for a werewolf.

To quote myself:

I did say that WW has it worse, several times in fact.

also...

There also isn't much to feed on in PvP areas for either WW or vamp.

On top of that...

Even if WW was working exactly as it should, you wouldn't be able to use it in PvP without getting slaughtered.

There are too many FG abilities being tossed about. Snares and root abilities only make things worse for WW. Silver Bolts is a particular favorite as well. It's not useful in the PvP areas regardless of whether it's working right or not or whether there is lots to feed on or not. WW form is a PvE only thing and it seems like it was designed that way intentionally to me.

That might change with some tweaks later on, but for now it wouldn't work in PvP even if everything was working perfectly. Even if they fixed all the bugs regarding the WW skill line, as it is right now you still wouldn't be able to use it successfully in PvP even if there was a bunch of bodies lying about to feed on.

Hardly anybody uses Poison. For the few that do, a nice piece of leveled resist poison gear eliminates the down side. Plus, poison attacks don't do much damage. Poison is always a small amount of damage over a period of time.

So no, the poison weakness isn't a huge deal. It's barely a minor inconvenience.

WW form isn't ever going to work in PvP as far as I can tell. It wasn't really meant too. The lack of the ability to keep it fed, the amount of FG skills and root/snare abilities being tossed about, and the fact that WW players stand out so much mean it will always be impractical for PvP as it is right now. Unless major changes happen, it will likely remain that way.

So, WW is basically a normal human player in PvP with a poison weakness that is easily nullified with one nice piece of enchanted jewelry, and even without that still isn't much of a danger because poison is so rarely used.

You might not like the fact that WW form isn't useful in PvP, but that's not the issue here. The simple fact is that being a normal human player in PvP with a poison weakness is less of a handicap than Vampire is in PvP in it's current state.

Some players do very well as vamps in PvP, but that's due to player skill level and clever char building, not because being a vamp is OP. A lot of vamp players go into PvP and get destroyed, only players who have at least some skill can last and be successful as vamps in PvP even with a great vamp build.

MasterLanz

Contrabardus wrote: »

Hardly anybody uses Poison. For the few that do, a nice piece of leveled resist poison gear eliminates the down side. Plus, poison attacks don't do much damage. Poison is always a small amount of damage over a period of time.

So no, the poison weakness isn't a huge deal. It's barely a minor inconvenience.

Uh... what?

What is the most seen weapon in PVP? Bows.

What is the bow's basic attack? Poison arrow. Which does as much damage as a bow power attack plus another 50% in poison damage over time and can be spammed.

What is bow's most powerful attack? Snipe. Which morphs into Lethal Arrow. Another high-power poison attack.

Are there lots of poison attacks in the game? No. But that means nothing when one of the absolute most common PVP weapons heavily employs poison damage.

And the elemental resistance point is moot. You can get fire resist too.

Contrabardus

MasterLanz wrote: »

Contrabardus wrote: »

Hardly anybody uses Poison. For the few that do, a nice piece of leveled resist poison gear eliminates the down side. Plus, poison attacks don't do much damage. Poison is always a small amount of damage over a period of time.

So no, the poison weakness isn't a huge deal. It's barely a minor inconvenience.

Uh... what?

What is the most seen weapon in PVP? Bows.

What is the bow's basic attack? Poison arrow. Which does as much damage as a bow power attack plus another 50% in poison damage over time and can be spammed.

What is bow's most powerful attack? Snipe. Which morphs into Lethal Arrow. Another high-power poison attack.

Are there lots of poison attacks in the game? No. But that means nothing when one of the absolute most common PVP weapons heavily employs poison damage.

And the elemental resistance point is moot. You can get fire resist too.

Elemental resist point is not moot. A vamp in PvP is not going to remain at stage 2+ long. Once Stage 3 and 4 hit the resist gear does a lot less good, especially without the damage mitigation passives working.

You might have a point if WW dropped to 75% weakness to poison after not feeding for a while, but that isn't the case. Not to mention if they became even more vulnerable after a single death due to any damage mitigation passives being lost.

Most bow players don't use Lethal Arrow. It's a rarely chosen skill even though bow is a common weapon. Bows are mostly used by NBs outside of sieges. Other classes usually use them to fire either onto or off of the wall. A lot of players use Melee once the wall is down or on the ground skirmishes. Plus there are a huge number of magic casters as well, staves are almost as common as bows.

Bow users tend to spam Poison Arrow at Sorc over class types because of the morph interrupt, or to kite targets at a distance. Chances are, if you're getting killed that way you'll die whether you're a WW or not.

It's a mild danger as the damage isn't great unless you're 1 on 1 against a ranged specialist who knows you're a WW and is intently focusing on spamming poison on you. In which case, all things being equal, you've still got a decent shot at winning the face off, especially if you've got poison resist gear.

A stage 3-4 vampire against a DK who has talons, fiery grip, searing strike, and Standard...even with maxed out fire resist you're probably going down in a stand off one on one battle unless your skill level is above the other player's given the current state of the Vamp skill line.

Common bow skills in PvP are Volley, Scatter shot, and Arrow Spray and their morphs. Most bow users will also slot Silver Bolt and at least one other magic type ability for when stamina runs out or for support buffing.

I've been PvPing as a WW. I had it up to lvl 10 before I cured it and went vamp instead. Poison is a minor issue even in PvP, more so than it is in PvE, but still really only a huge danger if you're standing within bow range like an idiot outside a keep wall during a siege where several bow users can spam it at you at once.

Sure, sometimes I got killed by a poison attack, but fire is a much bigger danger to a vampire than poison is to a WW. On top of that, the incredibly commonly used FG skills work on vampires all the time, where as they are no worse to a WW than a normal human player when they are in human form.

Ryskim

NachyoChez wrote: »

The problem is that the exploit was the only thing making the WW useable. By fixing it without any other additions to the 'class', it becomes worse than useless. It becomes detrimental. Holding off on fixing the exploit until there was a needed buff to the wolf would have been sensible, and allowed wolves to enjoy their game while they waited to be playable.

Let me say something to you. Werewolf (and Vampire) are not 'classes'. They are a plus, and as such, putting all your stock into it will not lead you anywhere. There are four classes: Nightblade, Templar, Dragonknight and Sorcerer. Everything else is a bonus. To put an example, the Vampire only has 3 active skills (ultimate included). It is not a 'class', its a skill line intended to act as a complement of the main classes. Such as the Undaunted, Fighters Guild or Mages Guild skill lines.

If you want to play some Twilight mmo, I've got bad news for you.

And to clarify more, I'm not saying ZOS will not make it a complete class in the future. Maybe they will (who knows) but today they are simple world skill lines not viable as 'class' or to build a complete character around them.

PS: I've been a vampire necromancer since the old TES games. Being an undead is what I like most.

dr_zed

The problem was not the fix, the problem was that they did nothing at all to compensate the huge nerf that that fix presented to the WW.

WW was already underpowered. It had to be buffed, even after the "fix". Instead of doing that, ZoS decided to make it even weaker. I wouldn't mind about this fix if it had come along the buffs the WW needs.

Vamps are completely overpowered. You have NOTHING to complain about them. AT ALL.

Still_Mind

kittrellbj_ESO wrote: »

People are really crying <.........>

You're doing it wrong. The sweetest tears are those of nerfed OP FOTMs. If Mist form was gutted down to 20\20% and no longer offered CC immunity, then I'd be drinking those delicious Vampire tears myself.

Werewolf tears are actually very bitter.

Brittany_Joy

Ryskim wrote: »

NachyoChez wrote: »

The problem is that the exploit was the only thing making the WW useable. By fixing it without any other additions to the 'class', it becomes worse than useless. It becomes detrimental. Holding off on fixing the exploit until there was a needed buff to the wolf would have been sensible, and allowed wolves to enjoy their game while they waited to be playable.

Let me say something to you. Werewolf (and Vampire) are not 'classes'. They are a plus, and as such, putting all your stock into it will not lead you anywhere. There are four classes: Nightblade, Templar, Dragonknight and Sorcerer. Everything else is a bonus. To put an example, the Vampire only has 3 active skills (ultimate included). It is not a 'class', its a skill line intended to act as a complement of the main classes. Such as the Undaunted, Fighters Guild or Mages Guild skill lines.

If you want to play some Twilight mmo, I've got bad news for you.

And to clarify more, I'm not saying ZOS will not make it a complete class in the future. Maybe they will (who knows) but today they are simple world skill lines not viable as 'class' or to build a complete character around them.

PS: I've been a vampire necromancer since the old TES games. Being an undead is what I like most.

I don't think you understand the philosophy that Elder scrolls series had which is Play the way you want. ESO is moving away from that ideology by making it impossible to actually play as a werewolf. I hate to say it but it seems like ESO is all about taking away the fun aspects from what makes an Elder Scrolls game. I used to defend ESO so much but now it seems like their own actions prove that their priority is to not have fun, I won't support a game like that.

dr_zed

LoL how can some people even DARE to compare vamps to wws in pvp? There are videos out there of vamps soloing groups of 20-30 people in PvP, while WWs find it hard to kill even one.

thywolfb16_ESO2

I"m playig a werewolf because Kitty go AARRRROOOOOOOOOOO

Lizard go "THIS ISNT EVEN MY FIANL FORM RRRAAARRRHHHHH -nom nom nom nom-


but currently thee werewolf takes 925ulti for a single 30 second transformation where all your awesome class skills are now gone, hey I acutally do less damge output in these 30 seconds then if i was just my fire mage dragonknight

or hey I can't use my two abilties to become immune to all melee and spell damage for 4 seconds every four seconds

so in PvP you'll rarely see werewolves, other then radon people take 50% more damage then normal

Brittany_Joy

@dr_zed, Yep it is completely illogical to compare vampires to werewolves in PvP.


How is the werewolf better off than a vampire. I will share some vids that show how powerful a vampire is compared to a werewolf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucmjldufa6U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxBlMayv12M

How are those vids worse off than this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKem8B-3iuI

Believe it or not, but that werewolf vid is the only PvP video.

Contrabardus

Yeah, funny how Vamp is exactly the same as it was at launch. Those are totally representative of the game as it stands today.

Those arguments and videos are totally not outdated and irrelevant.

[Pst. That was sarcasm.]

Mist Immunity to CC abilities has never worked, Bat Swarm spamming doesn't work anymore, Mist Form provides no speed boost at all as well as having a cost reduction applied to it so it can't be spammed infinitely, all the passive buffs are broken somehow or another but the debuffs all work fine, the skills often glitch out and get stuck in animations, Drain is unreliable in PvP, Bash, Talon, and tab targeting ranged have -always- worked well to counter Mist form, vampires are easy to spot all the time and not just when using an Ultimate transformation skill, and vamps have the same feeding problem as WW do in PvP although they aren't quite in as urgent need of edible mobs as WWs are.

They did need to fix the Bat Swarm and Mist Form spamming, but the rest of the skill line is still broken.

If you can't handle vampires in PvP right now, it's not because they are OP, it's because you suck at this game.

Also, WW form is not the same thing as a WW player. Yes, WW form completely sucks in PvP, but WW players aren't really any worse off than the normal non-monster players if they just wear a poison resist jewelry piece, vamp fire weakness is a lot more dangerous because their resistance drops with their stage level and fire is a lot more common. Vampire players are at a disadvantage since the last few patches. Not to mention Vamp players are -always- vulnerable to FG skills, and not just when using a short term Ultimate transformation.

WW form is crap in PvP. The poison weakness is a minor annoyance in human form and the only disadvantage over normal human players.

Saying vamp is OP at this point is simply an indication that you are terrible at PvP in ESO. It's not only bugged badly, but also nerfed to the point that if you can't handle them in PvP at this point, it's all on you and not because the skills are OP anymore.

As for WW form sucking in PvP. You were never meant to use it in that setting. It's there for PvE and that's it. Spend two of the over 300 sp to get an alt Ult for PvP because if and when it works exactly as it should WW form will still suck in Cyrodiil. Too many players like FG skills and there will never be enough feeding opportunities to keep it going.

Brittany_Joy

Contrabardus wrote: »

Yeah, funny how Vamp is exactly the same as it was at launch. Those are totally representative of the game as it stands today.

Those arguments and videos are totally not outdated and irrelevant.

[Pst. That was sarcasm.]

Mist Immunity to CC abilities has never worked, Bat Swarm spamming doesn't work anymore, Mist Form provides no speed boost at all as well as having a cost reduction applied to it so it can't be spammed infinitely, all the passive buffs are broken somehow or another but the debuffs all work fine, the skills often glitch out and get stuck in animations, Drain is unreliable in PvP, Bash, Talon, and tab targeting ranged have -always- worked well to counter Mist form, vampires are easy to spot all the time and not just when using an Ultimate transformation skill, and vamps have the same feeding problem as WW do in PvP although they aren't quite in as urgent need of edible mobs as WWs are.

They did need to fix the Bat Swarm and Mist Form spamming, but the rest of the skill line is still broken.

If you can't handle vampires in PvP right now, it's not because they are OP, it's because you suck at this game.

Also, WW form is not the same thing as a WW player. Yes, WW form completely sucks in PvP, but WW players aren't really any worse off than the normal non-monster players if they just wear a poison resist jewelry piece, vamp fire resist is a lot more dangerous because their resistance drops and fire is a lot more common. Vampire players are at a disadvantage since the last few patches.

WW form is crap in PvP. The poison weakness is a minor annoyance in human form and the only disadvantage over normal human players.

Saying vamp is OP at this point is simply an indication that you are terrible at PvP in ESO. It's not only bugged badly, but also nerfed to the point that if you can't handle them in PvP at this point, it's all on you and not because the skills are OP anymore.

Its funny because the nerfs don't actually nerf the vampires viability. The nerfs only make it so simple minded people can't become gods anymore. It seems like you don't understand what made vampires powerful in PvP. It is the passives and the mist form ability which basically negates any weakness if used correctly. Imagine if you only could use mist form if you used an ultimate that costs 925 and you only have a 30 second time frame to cast it. Now imagine none of your passives worked outside of the ultimate activation.

If you suck at being a vampire now then you were never a good player to start with because being a vampire is still viable. Also mist form did grant immunity to CC but roots and Knock backs must be countered by using block or dodge.

Still_Mind

Contrabardus wrote: »

As for WW form sucking in PvP. You were never meant to use it in that setting. It's there for PvE and that's it.

Very arguable. Very subjective. Even if that is true, then it shouldn't have PvP weaknesses ("Arr Pee lol" justifications won't do). Right now, Meatbags are used left and right, and FG talents are very popular, thanks to the bloodsucker infestation.

Contrabardus

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Its funny because the nerfs don't actually nerf the vampires viability. The nerfs only make it so simple minded people can't become gods anymore. It seems like you don't understand what made vampires powerful in PvP. It is the passives and the mist form ability which basically negates any weakness if used correctly. Imagine if you only could use mist form if you used an ultimate that costs 925 and you only have a 30 second time frame to cast it. Now imagine none of your passives worked outside of the ultimate activation.

If you suck at being a vampire now then you were never a good player to start with because being a vampire is still viable. Also mist form did grant immunity to CC but roots and Knock backs must be countered by using block or dodge.

The things I've posted about aren't nerfs, they are bugs. I never said a single word against the cost bump for the skills or fixing the spam exploits. In fact, I openly supported those changes. I've only ever said anything about the things that aren't working properly.

Mist form being normal speed isn't an issue, Elusive Mist is. It's supposed to have a speed boost and wasn't nerfed, it's bugged to not work anymore. They only meant to remove the speed from the original Mist form but screwed it up and took the bonus from the Morph form. It was supposed to be reduced from 52% to 30%, not eliminated.

The passives thing is also a bug. It's not there to make things easier on other players. It's broken and doesn't work. One death removes the passives, it's especially bad if you aren't Stage 1 or 2.

Anyone with a little skill can kill a vampire in PvP. It's actually a little easier than killing a normal player provided you have some sort of flame attack if they aren't freshly fed, even if they have fire resist, and especially if they've died before already without a relog. That's especially bad in PvP because it's a huge pain to relog in PvP, much more so than in PvE.

Mist form is easily dealt with, even when it had it's original speed. I never had trouble picking of a fleeing vampire. Usually by the time they try to run it's easy to pick them off with a ranged weapon and tab targeting. Fire Staff was particularly effective at this, and DK's chain worked pretty well also.

Players who can't handle vampires in PvP are simply unskilled or have poorly built chars. It's got nothing to do with vampires being OP. Playing as a vamp in PvP requires more skill right now than playing as a human or WW character. Not a lot more skill, but they are more vulnerable to the most common elemental damage type and the FG skills as well.

Again, yes WW form is useless in PvP, but it also wasn't designed to be used in PvP. It's a skill line that was pretty obviously only meant for PvE use.

If they fix the bugs, things will be different. I'd agree that vampire is probably at a slight advantage given they fixed the spamming issues.

No one said 'they aren't viable' to begin with. I said they are more vulnerable and the bugs coupled with the recent nerfs put them at a slight disadvantage vs other players.

You seem to be trying to suggest that I'm arguing an extreme that I'm not even trying to argue. I'm not getting pushed into that corner.

Vampire, as it exists since the last patch is perfectly viable for PvP. It does require a skilled player to use though because the bugs and nerfs put it at a disadvantage to any char with FG skills and/or can do fire damage. Not a huge disadvantage, but that doesn't change the fact that if every other factor is equal, it's probably the weakest skill line in PvP outside of WW form right now.

Staying fed helps a lot, but it doesn't totally eliminate the downside either and still gives a slight edge to other classes provided they have a decent build. Even then it has the most weaknesses out of any other PvP build and that's compounded by the broken passives, especially when below stage 2.

Travail

- Mistform is still a good ability. It's not god-mode, but it's still pretty great as a situational power.
- Bat Swarm is still a great ultimate. It's not an I-Win button anymore, but it's still up there as one of the more powerful ultimates in the game.

You simply cannot compare the Vampire skill line to Werewolves right now. They aren't even in the same ballpark. The vampire skill line is now "just another skill line" (as it always should have been.) the werewolf skill line is entirely built around an ultimate which is currently ranked dead last as the worst ult in the game. There is no comparison.

-Travail.

Brittany_Joy

Contrabardus wrote: »

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

Its funny because the nerfs don't actually nerf the vampires viability. The nerfs only make it so simple minded people can't become gods anymore. It seems like you don't understand what made vampires powerful in PvP. It is the passives and the mist form ability which basically negates any weakness if used correctly. Imagine if you only could use mist form if you used an ultimate that costs 925 and you only have a 30 second time frame to cast it. Now imagine none of your passives worked outside of the ultimate activation.

If you suck at being a vampire now then you were never a good player to start with because being a vampire is still viable. Also mist form did grant immunity to CC but roots and Knock backs must be countered by using block or dodge.

The things I've posted about aren't nerfs, they are bugs. I never said a single word about the cost bump for the skills. I've only ever said anything about the things that aren't working properly.

Mist form being normal speed isn't an issue, Elusive Mist is. It's supposed to have a speed boost and wasn't nerfed, it's bugged to not work anymore. They only meant to remove the speed from the original Mist form but screwed it up and took the bonus from the Morph form. It was supposed to be reduced from 45% to 30%, not eliminated.

The passives thing is also a bug. It's not there to make things easier on other players. It's broken and doesn't work. One death removes the passives, it's especially bad if you aren't Stage 1 or 2.

I never once complained about the nerfs, the cost reduction or the removal of the spamming exploits.

Anyone with a little skill can kill a vampire in PvP. It's actually a little easier than killing a normal player provided you have some sort of flame attack if they aren't freshly fed, even if they have fire resist, and especially if they've died before already without a relog. That's especially bad in PvP because it's a huge pain to relog in PvP, much more so than in PvP.

Mist form is easily dealt with, even when it had it's original speed. I never had trouble picking of a fleeing vampire. Usually by the time they try to run it's easy to pick them off with a ranged weapon and tab targeting. Fire Staff was particularly effective at this, and DK's chain worked pretty well also.

Players who can't handle vampires in PvP are simply unskilled or have poorly built chars. It's got nothing to do with vampires being OP. Playing as a vamp in PvP requires more skill right now than playing as a human or WW character. Not a lot more skill, but they are more vulnerable to the most common elemental damage type.

Again, yes WW form is useless in PvP, but it also wasn't designed to be used in PvP. It's a skill line that was pretty obviously only meant for PvE use.

If they fix the bugs, things will be different. I'd agree that vampire is probably at a slight advantage given they fixed the spamming issues.

No one said 'they aren't viable' to begin with. I said they are more vulnerable and the bugs coupled with the recent nerfs put them at a slight disadvantage vs other players.

You seem to be trying to suggest that I'm arguing an extreme that I'm not even trying to argue. Vampire, as it exists since the last patch is perfectly viable for PvP. It does require a skilled player to use though because the bugs and nerfs put it at a disadvantage to any char with FG skills and/or can do fire damage. Not a huge disadvantage, but that doesn't change the fact that if everything else is equal, it's probably the weakest skill line in PvP outside of WW form right now.

Staying fed helps a lot, but it doesn't totally eliminate the downside either and still gives a slight edge to other classes provided they have a decent build. Even then it has the most weaknesses out of any other class.

No, werewolves are supposed to be viable in PvP, in fact they are supposed to be OP in PvP just like vampires but the design of the werewolf skill line proved to not be practical. ESO's motto is to "play the way you like" which means any build should be viable and function properly. Vampires and werewolves are mostly bugged, I won't disagree with this because it is a fact. But ESO is supposed to be promoting any play style.

I just wish ZoS would give us some info on werewolves and vampires. ZoS should share info on why they decide to nerf skills or passives. This lack of communication about vampires and werewolves is not helping either.

ScardyFox

Contrabardus wrote: »

Again, yes WW form is useless in PvP, but it also wasn't designed to be used in PvP. It's a skill line that was pretty obviously only meant for PvE use.

Been watching this thread unfold - shame so many people took the troll bait. However, funny enough this little quip caught my attention for being blatantly untrue....

Contrabardus

You seem to be missing the point. WW ultimate does suck. It's been nerfed to near useless. Yes, the Poison weakness is basically now something that has no tradeoff.

However, WW Players are still less vulnerable than Vamp players overall. They have fewer weaknesses, they are less obvious when not in WW form, and there's no reason they can't gain an alt Ult.

The fact that the WW ult is now basically useless is not a good thing. It never worked in PvP, and probably never will due to how it's implemented. It's badly broken and in need of a fix, probably more than the vampire line is due to the last patch.

However, in a PvP setting, a WW player is still slightly better off than a Vamp player. Yes the WW ult is useless, but vamp has more vulnerabilities and the broken passives compound that.

A WW player in PvP is basically equal to a normal human player as far as resistances go with the exception of a static 50% poison weakness that can be pretty much cured with gear. They aren't any more vulnerable to FG skills in human form than a normal human player.

Vampires don't suck, Mist is a nice way to avoid big damage attacks and their Ultimate is one of the best in the game. They do have the most vulnerabilities out of any build though. Gear can help, but past stage 2 it isn't enough to come close to negating that vulnerability, and even then the FG skills always work well against it.

If you want to PvP as a Vamp as the skill line exists right now, you need to be a skilled player. More so than playing as a normal human player or a WW player using their human side. Not by a huge margin, but given the current state of the vamp skill line, saying it's OP is a joke.

Vamp might be OP after they fix the bugs, but right now, no. If you're having trouble against vampire players in PvP, it's because they are more skilled than you, not because the skill line is too powerful.

The fact that the WW ult is crap is secondary to that. Yeah, it's not a good thing, yeah it's pretty useless now, but WW players aren't really much different than regular human chars aside from the useless ultimate.

I never said that WW wasn't broken. It's completely busted. However, at least WW players are basically exactly the same as any other character of the same race and class who is using the same gear and skills aside from that. They have one easily nerfed weakness in human form and that's the only real difference aside from the now useless transformation.

Contrabardus

Brittany_Joy wrote: »

No, werewolves are supposed to be viable in PvP, in fact they are supposed to be OP in PvP just like vampires but the design of the werewolf skill line proved to not be practical. ESO's motto is to "play the way you like" which means any build should be viable and function properly. Vampires and werewolves are mostly bugged, I won't disagree with this because it is a fact. But ESO is supposed to be promoting any play style.

I just wish ZoS would give us some info on werewolves and vampires. ZoS should share info on why they decide to nerf skills or passives. This lack of communication about vampires and werewolves is not helping either.

Maybe I'm wrong about WW being intended to be viable for PvP, but that doesn't change the fact that they are not and likely won't be even if they are fixed without some major changes to how the skill line works.

You also seem to have misinterpreted the 'play any way you want' motto.

You can play as a Tank in light armor with a dagger and all magicka boosting gear, but that doesn't mean it's going to work well.

ES games never tell you that you can't wear something because it's not in your class or that you can't use a certain weapon. If you want to run around as a Sorcerer with a Two Handed greatsword in heavy armor, you can, but it's probably not going to work out to be a great build.

You probably could build a Sorcerer using that template that would work by picking the right skills. That's not the point though, it is very possible to build a completely useless character.

"Play any way you want" does not mean that every build is viable at all. It has never meant that. As it is in real life, just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should, or that it will work out well.

The 'play any way you want' mentality is more a way of saying feel free to try anything. Don't worry about whether it works well or not, you can always go back and fix it and try something different later.

Take Alchemy as an example. There are a lot of possible ingredient combinations. Most games would only let you mix the reagents and herbs with compatible options and would tell you what you'll end up with to begin with.

An ES game lets you mix any combination you want. A lot of mixes don't work and will simply waste mats. Other mixes will give you potions that don't suit your character, or useless poisons that are only good for selling to vendors at the moment. You discover which ones do work by experimentation and eventually figure out what each ingredient is compatible with so you can figure out what the best combination is for what you want to make.

So no. Every build is not supposed to be viable and work well. The freedom of ES games is for players to figure out what works best on their own and how they want to play the game. Some builds just aren't going to work as well as others. You've got to find that balance for yourself, that's what they mean by 'play how you want'.

It was never meant to mean everything works equally well no matter what kind of character you toss together or what skills you give them.

Contrabardus

ScardyFox wrote: »

Contrabardus wrote: »

Again, yes WW form is useless in PvP, but it also wasn't designed to be used in PvP. It's a skill line that was pretty obviously only meant for PvE use.

Been watching this thread unfold - shame so many people took the troll bait. However, funny enough this little quip caught my attention for being blatantly untrue....

Meh. You overestimate the butthurt involved. The OP topic got derailed a while ago, but not too far off track. We're in the same ballpark at least.

Some of us are here to just vent about the frustration caused by the still not being fixed issue this game has, others simply got caught up in the conversation, and a few are fanning what they probably mistakenly think are flames.

I doubt anyone here is actually raging. I'm playing Bravely Default between posts. I logged on to ESO to feed my horses and do a few things, but I don't really want to get into playing it all night either.

Now I'm just going with the flow until I decide to crash. Might see where it went when I wake up tomorrow after I do. I'm willing to bet the majority of the thread posters are of a similar mindset.

Oronell

I may be wrong but it seems as if the Werewolf was meant to be viable in PvE via single target damage and viable in PvP via "Pack running" i.e. grouping with other Werewolves. At the moment it fails at both because of a host of issues already mentioned in other threads.

Edit: Also pretty sure that a vampire's Poison Mist is meant to be a direct counter to Werewolf packs.

Grao

Oronell wrote: »

I may be wrong but it seems as if the Werewolf was meant to be viable in PvE via single target damage and viable in PvP via "Pack running" i.e. grouping with other Werewolves. At the moment it fails at both because of a host of issues already mentioned in other threads.

Edit: Also pretty sure that a vampire's Poison Mist is meant to be a direct counter to Werewolf packs.

I have to agree with you, I believe Werewolf form was meant for single target DPS and meant to be used in packs both for PvP and PvE. That is made clear for such abilities as Leader of the Pack and Call of the Pack.

After getting access to the Werewolf Skill tree through some research (even before the official release of ESO) my plan for the game became building a raid guild composed only of werewolves. Work some neat rotations in witch at every time in a boss fight we'd have at least one pack leader transformed to help ult generation and do extra damage. Unfortunately, as werewolves stand at this moment I can't put my plans in practice. I can't even test it because pack leader has never worked... I've been waiting for it to be fixed since the first week of release.

It just really... makes me sad. I was being patient though... I understand there are more important things to fix than bugs in the ww skill line, I have a nightblade friend that can barely play because half of his abilities do nothing but consume mana or stamina. I've experienced some quest bugs, so... I understand. There are more important things to fix, thing that affect everyone or a greater part of the community. Problem is... Three patches in a roll announced that nerf werewolves and yet NOTHING... NOT A WORD on fixing the bugs plaguing us.

It is perfectly understandable that werewolves can't be the priority, but if they are not going to fixed properly, then just leave it alone! At least don't nerf it because the result (That ZOS should have easily predicted) will frustration and anger from every werewolf playing this game and we are not so few. Seriously... Why ZOS had to release that this small fix now? It couldn't wait till they actually fixed the skill line? Worse is that they also don't bother to respond when questioned and that leads to even more frustration and anger. It is just disapointing.

ScardyFox

Grao wrote: »

I believe Werewolf form was meant for single target DPS and meant to be used in packs both for PvP and PvE.

This is correct. The skill line is clearly meant to be used with other players. It was described as such in one of its old descriptions some time ago. However, this has been pretty much impossible from the start. In order to have a pack ideal working we need to be able to stay in form more than a handful of seconds.

What I find ironic, is in the beta forums, I pointed all this junk out and was crucified for wanting an "I win button" and all kinds of absurd things. Its small comfort everything I said has become brutally true and slightly infuriating these glaring issues weren't dealt with sooner. The player test community pointed these things out from the moment they were released.

That said, as much as I am annoyed by all this werewolf isn't as useless as people believe. In no way am I saying its great, but rather if you build a build around it, you can use it to effect. Sure enough, the moons have to be aligned right, but I can see what they were trying to do with it. However, missing two skills, tissue armor, absurdly short timer, and no CC break in a game flooded with CC, the best intentions in the world could never truly cover this mess.

Aphilas

kittrellbj_ESO wrote: »

People are really crying that an exploit was fixed?

It added enough time (4-5 seconds) only enough to devour another corpse. So essentially they nerfed WWs ability to eat more corpses for the sake of .... eating more corpses. Caremeter on this nerf almost reached 0.1.

rabble rabble rabble"Werewolf is useless now!" rabble rabble rabble

It already was useless.

Would have been a decent troll if you knew at least some things about WWs.