I shall drink glasses full of werewolf tears this day!

kittrellbj_ESO

People are really crying that an exploit was fixed? If the whole benefit of something in a game is only because of an exploit, then maybe you shouldn't bank on it lasting forever... ? I mean, all of the guides that I've read about werewolves claim that you can feed on a corpse exactly once. That's because that was the intended design, as quoted by the developers. They make it work how it was originally designed and intended, and the werewolf community screams "NERF!" ?

"Werewolf is useless now!"
Ok... they fixed an exploit. I'll tell you like I told my vampire friends who whined about the last round of fixes: Get cured, carry on.

I play a vamp, and I was happy when they fixed many of the exploits causing problems. Exploits may be good for you, but they're not good for the game in the long run.

Besides the werewolf fix (which I'm happy about), the rest of the fixes are somewhat underwhelming. Yes, I'm glad that many quests are getting fixed, but there are plenty of other core problems which probably should've been fixed first.

And to counter the tide of arguments which will surely follow, yes, they "nerfed" your exploit. Yes, they had to "nerf" your exploit prior to fixing your skill lines (and my skill lines, and everybody else's skill lines). If there's an exploit, fixing that comes before improving functionality that is working.

Take, for example, a broken faucet in your bathroom. It's spraying water everywhere. You have two choices: fix the faucet or paint the room a newer, prettier color. Which one do you pick?

The paint will hold until the faucet is fixed.

concobar

finding joy in the misery and sadness of other says something about you and who you are. Your post does not reflect poorly on the WW it reflects poorly on you and is absolutely uncalled for.

Brayton

Hear, hear

Faffrd

"Take, for example, a broken faucet in your bathroom. It's spraying water everywhere. You have two choices: fix the faucet or paint the room a newer, prettier color. Which one do you pick?"

Any THEY are painting the rooms cause they don't know how to fix the faucet, so there is water everywhere, drowning everyone, or sending them to other places as to not get wet, neh?

kittrellbj_ESO

@concobar Misery and sadness... that an exploit was fixed? I can only assume that the fix affects you, so I guess I could apologize, but I won't; if you put your stock in an exploit, you're going to be disappointed every time.

ZiRM

Ewwww salty!

concobar

kittrellbj_ESO wrote: »

@concobar Misery and sadness... that an exploit was fixed? I can only assume that the fix affects you, so I guess I could apologize, but I won't; if you put your stock in an exploit, you're going to be disappointed every time.

Does not affect me at all, I am not a WW I play a NB assassin. My point still stands. you are here to rub sand into the wounds of your fellow players.

NachyoChez

The problem is that the exploit was the only thing making the WW useable. By fixing it without any other additions to the 'class', it becomes worse than useless. It becomes detrimental. Holding off on fixing the exploit until there was a needed buff to the wolf would have been sensible, and allowed wolves to enjoy their game while they waited to be playable.

Reenlister

um, I have to say, at the risk of sounding like a bad guy.
You really have no idea what your talking about.
This was hardly an exploit, especially since it only occurred to very few WW.
Also unlike the Vamps who really did need something done about them, they had some fun in the sun as the FOTM.
The WW is and has been FUBAR.
All this did was take a useless bug, that didn't matter at all since you never reaped any benefit from a few extra seconds, note SECONDS as a WW vs the totally broken ulti, and the skills.

Nathair

Faffrd wrote: »

Any THEY are painting the rooms cause they don't know how to fix the faucet, so there is water everywhere, drowning everyone, or sending them to other places as to not get wet

Why do I want to respond "Eve is dying!" ?

Evergreen

NiRN wrote: »

Ewwww salty!

Is that appropriate?

concobar

Evergreen wrote: »

NiRN wrote: »

Ewwww salty!

Is that appropriate?

maybe, probably more appropriate than the OP.
Besides I have been told its more like pancake batter with a ting of chlorine.

ZiRM

Evergreen wrote: »

NiRN wrote: »

Ewwww salty!

Is that appropriate?

I have no idea what you're getting at but the truth remains. Tears are SALTY.

Contrabardus

There was only one huge exploit with Vamp anyway and the ultimate is still a little OP.

Mist was working fine, just a bunch of weak players who couldn't figure out how to handle it. I'm a vamp and I got knocked out of and picked off plenty of times in Mist form.

A lot of the 'yay stuff got nerfed' is just players who suck at the game hoping that a nerf will improve their skills. They're going to get their asses kicked just as much now as they did before.

There were a few glaring issues that needed to be fixed, like the Bat Swarm stacking, and the WW feeding bug.

Mist form -did- need a cost bump so it couldn't be cast infinite times back to back, but the speed drop was pointless, especially since it also took the speed boost away from Elusive Mist, which is the only bonus the move gets over the regular move. It says there's a 30% speed boost, but the actual move is the same speed as the normal running speed of your char.

Still, most of the joy from nerfing is people who are too dumb to realize that the reason they're getting killed so much in PVP is on their end and not because a bunch of moves are OP.

Learn to play the game or play something else.

I'm all for tweaks, but completely breaking entire skill lines because of whining from players too lazy to learn how to play is just Zeni shooting themselves in the foot.

They didn't just nerf vampire, they broke the entire skill line. The only move that works correctly without issues is the bite skill, the ultimate works but is still a bit OP, most of the passives don't work, and the few that do stop working as soon as you die.

If it was just a few tweaks to the skills and costs it would be different, but that is not the case. The devs completely wrecked something that was already badly broken and that's worth complaining about.

Morbus2

WW will now know how vamps felt the last "patch". Instead of fixing the many problems with ww, they get nerfed.

Not much fun when it happens to you. Is it?

concobar

Contrabardus wrote: »

There was only one huge exploit with Vamp anyway and the ultimate is still a little OP.

Mist was working fine, just a bunch of weak players who couldn't figure out how to handle it. I'm a vamp and I got knocked out of and picked off plenty of times in Mist form.

A lot of the 'yay stuff got nerfed' is just players who suck at the game hoping that a nerf will improve their skills. They're going to get their asses kicked just as much now as they did before.

There were a few glaring issues that needed to be fixed, like the Bat Swarm stacking, and the WW feeding bug.

Mist form -did- need a cost bump so it couldn't be cast infinite times back to back, but the speed drop was pointless, especially since it also took the speed boost away from Elusive Mist, which is the only bonus the move gets over the regular move. It says there's a 30% speed boost, but the actual move is the same speed as the normal running speed of your char.

Still, most of the joy from nerfing is people who are too dumb to realize that the reason they're getting killed so much in PVP is on their end and not because a bunch of moves are OP.

Learn to play the game or play something else.

I'm all for tweaks, but completely breaking entire skill lines because of whining from players too lazy to learn how to play is just Zeni shooting themselves in the foot.

They didn't just nerf vampire, they broke the entire skill line. The only move that works correctly without issues is the bite skill, most of the passives don't work, and the few that do stop working as soon as you die.

If it was just a few tweaks to the skills and costs it would be different, but that is not the case. The devs completely wrecked something that was already badly broken and that's worth complaining about.

You have inspired me. Mistform does need a fix.

ZOS_RobinsonE

Hello everyone,

We moved this thread to the World Skill section of the forum as it is about the werewolf skill-line.

Also, it is fine to discuss the incoming patches and fixes, but keep the thread in line with the Forum Code of Conduct.

SaibotLiu

I wont sugar coat it like the OP did. To me its not about them fixing an exploit. I genuinely just hate vampires and werewolves and think its awesome when you guys throw your little hissy fits.

Yes I am the guy who comes out in his underwear and tells you to GTFO my lawn. I dont really care about my lawn, its just you, all you.

Evergreen

NiRN wrote: »

Evergreen wrote: »

NiRN wrote: »

Ewwww salty!

Is that appropriate?

I have no idea what you're getting at but the truth remains. Tears are SALTY.

Maybe I'm being prudish and you're just being facetious but why relish in the pain WW suffer from this nerf? I would definitely not consider the WW ability to feed on a corpse more than once an exploit but more like how it should be considered working as intended. I don't see how this would affect pvp or pve negatively.

The priority of what gets fixed or why just baffles me sometimes. Throwing in some much needed Nightblade fixes instead of nerfing the WW would have been enormously more helpful for example.

kittrellbj_ESO

I won't respond to the armchair psychiatrist anymore so that it doesn't dip further into the code of conduct violation, but I will pose a question to the rest of you: if this was such a minor thing, why are the tears flowing all over the place? It should be the other way around, the dogs thanking ZOS for fixing the broken skill or--more likely--not saying much at all because it was such a small thing that it affected a select few.

As for the "relishing in the pain and misery of werewolf players", I took liberties with the post title, so sue me.

And I believe I said... yes, I did say it!

Besides the werewolf fix (which I'm happy about), the rest of the fixes are somewhat underwhelming. Yes, I'm glad that many quests are getting fixed, but there are plenty of other core problems which probably should've been fixed first.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

what about we nerf DK and Sorc now their class are exploit in themselves

Truth be told they should've waited with the WW to be fixed before releasing that nerf because ''go cure yourself and carry on'' is the one sentence that mean you never actualy played WW for anything but the bonus it granted or never played one at all. Well people will still play WW or vampire regardless of how bad they are and know what they will plague your party with their build because they don't have to run what you want them to run just because their build are weaker right now. You still going to get vampire and WW in your dungeon party and the funniest is because you may choose to refuse them they will just wear helmet on their head or just not use their ult at all and pretend not to be what they are. Eventually being a WW or a vamp will be shunned both on the rp and the ooc and people will hide the secret by wearing helm on their face and using full body armor. If you want to play with underpowered ally and not even know about it go on with this mentality dude soon enough we will all lie to each other. When a guy die in a dungeon you wont know its because he takes 50% more fire damage... when a guy never use his ultimate you wont even know its because hes afraid of using WW form here. WW and Vampire have an impact on your game weither you use it or not so get used to them behing here because they wont leave and 90% of the game population is either openly or secretly one of them because behing a simple human sucks and people want special flavor perks or beastly power weither come first.

kittrellbj_ESO

^ There are a number of things that are ridiculous about those two classes. In PvE, it's fine, nobody is worried about it. In PvP...

ZiRM

Evergreen wrote: »

NiRN wrote: »

Evergreen wrote: »

NiRN wrote: »

Ewwww salty!

Is that appropriate?

I have no idea what you're getting at but the truth remains. Tears are SALTY.

Maybe I'm being prudish and you're just being facetious ...

Wait a minute, gotta consult dictionary.com. Brb!

concobar

kittrellbj_ESO wrote: »

I won't respond to the armchair psychiatrist anymore so that it doesn't dip further into the code of conduct violation, but I will pose a question to the rest of you: if this was such a minor thing, why are the tears flowing all over the place? It should be the other way around, the dogs thanking ZOS for fixing the broken skill or--more likely--not saying much at all because it was such a small thing that it affected a select few.

As for the "relishing in the pain and misery of werewolf players", I took liberties with the post title, so sue me.

And I believe I said... yes, I did say it!

Besides the werewolf fix (which I'm happy about), the rest of the fixes are somewhat underwhelming. Yes, I'm glad that many quests are getting fixed, but there are plenty of other core problems which probably should've been fixed first.

Hey, just pointing out that you created a whole thread in order to mock other people and taunt them about their in game choices and this "fix" that will cause some of them some sadness. What I said was truth and you do not need to waste a bunch of money on a psych degree to know it.

malais

concobar wrote: »

kittrellbj_ESO wrote: »

I won't respond to the armchair psychiatrist anymore so that it doesn't dip further into the code of conduct violation, but I will pose a question to the rest of you: if this was such a minor thing, why are the tears flowing all over the place? It should be the other way around, the dogs thanking ZOS for fixing the broken skill or--more likely--not saying much at all because it was such a small thing that it affected a select few.

As for the "relishing in the pain and misery of werewolf players", I took liberties with the post title, so sue me.

And I believe I said... yes, I did say it!

Besides the werewolf fix (which I'm happy about), the rest of the fixes are somewhat underwhelming. Yes, I'm glad that many quests are getting fixed, but there are plenty of other core problems which probably should've been fixed first.

Hey, just pointing out that you created a whole thread in order to mock other people and taunt them about their in game choices and this "fix" that will cause some of them some sadness. What I said was truth and you do not need to waste a bunch of money on a psych degree to know it.

Huh?

Ravinsild

Let me explain to you what being a Werewolf is like, and why fixing this without 0 compensation what-so-ever is crippling to the experience.

The intended experience of a Werewolf is to feel cool, powerful and like a rampaging beast with a shock factor.

It is fun and enjoyable when you transform, especially near other players.

However, here is the reality of the skill line: When you transform you lose all skills you've ever had as a character (Including passives like Persuade or Intimidate upon turning in quests while in Werewolf form). You gain two skills.

TWO.

One of them is a leap. About 50% of the time you go to leap to a creature your character never executes the animation and gets stuck in a crippled sideways frozen animation from which you cannot attack, block, or do anything other than move your character.

There is only one way I know of to fix this game breaking bug. (How does it break the game? Well it essentially makes your character WORTHLESS until you fix the bug) How do you do that? Drink a potion.

The second is a roar which can only fear a maximum of 3 targets. Surrounded by 8 targets? 3 go away, 5 remain to destroy you. In addition to this, following up on the fear with "heavy attacks" to knock down the targets is buggy, sometimes misfiring, sometimes never hitting at all, and only occaisionally knocking down the target. In addition the morphed version is random at best about when it triggers the fear/disorient of killing a creature nearby under the fear effect.

To build up to this point of grabbing these two -totally amazing skills- you must grind 1,000 ultimate. Not 200 like most ultimates...and the form doesn't even do tons of damage. Most ultimates in the game are AOE and have some sort of super cool effect from turning you invisible, to giving you HP back, to giving synergies that knockdown/stun targets, to giving you huge damage reduction, to granting allies invisibility.

Werewolves have single target attacks and you have no way to heal yourself, no damage reduction, no interesting synergies and it lasts an incredibly short amount of time. So instead of increasing survivability or doing tons of AOE damage or providing interesting interactions with other players it gives you: Possibly, depending on build, marginally increased single target attack power....POSSIBLY, depending on morph choice, a bleed and attack speed increase...and two skills which I covered above.

All in all...the times where actually transforming are limited. Where-as popping Bat Swarm or Standard of Might or Supernova or Veil of Blades or Storm Atronoch are probably almost -always- great choices to make, and maybe even worth dropping every pull because you can gain 200 ultimate so quickly.... The times for spending 1,000 ultimate to become a werewolf are extremely niche.

During PvP? Only if you know the enemy hasn't reached rank 7 in fighter's guild, it's a 1v1 fight and you know they have no poison attacks. In other words: Never unless you love instantly dying.

During boss battles? Probably not...you lose a lot of survivability, you cannot break CC when CCed, you can't dodge roll out of AOEs...and you can't heal yourself.

During large crowds of monsters? Maybe...if they don't have a lot of CC, the initial fear MAY help, but just watch out. None of them can have any CC what-so-ever because if you transform WHILE CCed...you lose your ultimate points and nothing happens, or if you get CCed while transformed you just have to sit and wait until it's over.

During small packs of mobs? Yes, if they are humanoid or beast and devourable...no any time else because you'll get about 20 seconds before going back to normal.

The only time to transform is when you fighting non-undead, non-daedric, non-goblin humanoids or beasts that have a large population nearby (enemy villages or some such) that you can continually devour to get tons of Werewolf time to get the above reasons of becoming a Werewolf.

In nearly every single other instance it is better to use a normal ultimate, which can be done far more often, and for far better benefits.

Literally the ONLY thing fun about Werewolf was finding a hostile Orcs or Bosmer village or something, wolfing out, then spamming the devour button to fill up your Werewolf timer to continue ransacking and killing. That is the ONLY time it is worthwhile...fixing this "exploit" essentially kills this entire process meaning:

No matter where or when you transform you will not be able to sustain the form for any amount of time worth finding enjoyment in and are giving up: Survivability (Armour, Shields [Obsidian Shield, Blazing Sun Shield], Self Heals), Defensive capabilities (CC breaking, dodge rolling), Enhancements (Molten Weapons, Expert Hunter, etc..)

The only time giving up all of the above was acceptable was in an area where threats were limited (No CC from mobs, or limited, not in huge groups, not particularly strong like a Boss that could chunk your HP more than a potion can heal for...) so you could quickly massacre them, feast, and keep going.

This has literally made the one situation Werewolf shone, was fun and was useful...nonexistent.

Meanwhile: Even after the nerfs vampires still receive: 10% Magicka/Stamina recovery. Up to 50% damage mitigation beginning at 50% Health Points, Faster movement speed while in stealth, a healing skill that also provides a stun and regenerates stamina for either a greater effect a night or generates ultimate faster, a 75% damage reducing form that also allows higher than normal movement speed or deals damage over time and a huge AOE ultimate that can also heal you or turn you invisible....THAT CAN BE USED IN ALL SITUATIONS NO MATTER WHAT. (Save for Drain Essence on "mobs that are too powerful for that affect")

When is it appropriate to use Drain Essence? Any time you are injured or need your stamina bar refilled...assuming the mob isn't too powerful for that effect.

When is it appropriate to use Mist Form? Apparently any time you damn well please, even trolling people because of the horrible noise it makes every time it is activated.

When is it appropriate to use Bat Swarm? Probably on every fight you can as you can generate the 200 baseline ultimate exceedingly quickly especially depending on Ultimate discounts and assuming you are a DK that generates 2 Ultimate every time you use an Earthen Heart ability, or a Templar that uses a Sun ability...or have any degree of ultimate discounts from the vampiric Stage 4 to certain gear sets and class benefits.

Contrabardus

Meanwhile: Even after the nerfs vampires still receive: 10% Magicka/Stamina recovery. Up to 50% damage mitigation beginning at 50% Health Points, Faster movement speed while in stealth, a healing skill that also provides a stun and regenerates stamina for either a greater effect a night or generates ultimate faster, a 75% damage reducing form that also allows higher than normal movement speed or deals damage over time and a huge AOE ultimate that can also heal you or turn you invisible....THAT CAN BE USED IN ALL SITUATIONS NO MATTER WHAT. (Save for Drain Essence on "mobs that are too powerful for that affect")

When is it appropriate to use Drain Essence? Any time you are injured or need your stamina bar refilled...assuming the mob isn't too powerful for that effect.

When is it appropriate to use Mist Form? Apparently any time you damn well please, even trolling people because of the horrible noise it makes every time it is activated.

When is it appropriate to use Bat Swarm? Probably on every fight you can as you can generate the 200 baseline ultimate exceedingly quickly especially depending on Ultimate discounts and assuming you are a DK that generates 2 Ultimate every time you use an Earthen Heart ability, or a Templar that uses a Sun ability...or have any degree of ultimate discounts from the vampiric Stage 4 to certain gear sets and class benefits.

Actually, no. Most of the passives for vamp don't work, and the few that do stop working when you die.

Mist Form is somewhat useful, but lost it's largest benefit, as an escape skill. It can still be used to take a large damage attack, provided you can see it coming. In it's current state it's useful for tanking a heavy boss attack or a mob about to hit you with an AoE special. It's also still vulnerable to several attacks it should not be, such as snares.

Drain Essence has a nasty habit of not working a lot, and I don't mean as in "This mob is too powerful for that effect". Often you'll get stuck in the animation and nothing will happen just like what happens with the pounce WW ability, though it does wear off on it's own it still leaves you vulnerable. It also has a habit of breaking off after a split second granting barely any recovery, but your target will still be invulnerable to using it again in either case.

Bat Swarm is still a little OP, but it's no longer any worse about being spammed than any other Ult with the same passives, and the vamp ult passive usually doesn't work.

Vamps only have it slightly better than WWs do because the only skills that work without issues are the Ult and the Bite Skill. You try to make it sound like Vamp is all sunshine and rainbows compared to WW, but the skill line is just as broken and vamps only have it any better because they don't have to transform.

Zhoyzu

kittrellbj_ESO wrote: »

"Werewolf is useless now!"
Ok... they fixed an exploit. I'll tell you like I told my vampire friends who whined about the last round of fixes: Get cured, carry on.
Unlike scampires, this exploit made it possible to stay in werewolf form for longer then 30 seconds. It didn't make werewolves into gods or even borderline viable anywhere in the game.

I play a vamp, and I was happy when they fixed many of the exploits causing problems. Exploits may be good for you, but they're not good for the game in the long run.
an exploit that makes something remotely viable isnt really an exploit. Vampire exploits arent good for the game as scampires are already pretty damn strong. How many times have you seen a werewolf?

Besides the werewolf fix (which I'm happy about), the rest of the fixes are somewhat underwhelming. Yes, I'm glad that many quests are getting fixed, but there are plenty of other core problems which probably should've been fixed first.
im not really sure what werewolf fix you're refering to. Werewolves are still broken as *** and a complete joke. The real exploitation is ZoS putting it into the game and acting like everything is peachy. What they could have done is reduce the ult cost down to 50 since thats about a proper pricing for a broken skill line that does next to nothing for very little time.

And to counter the tide of arguments which will surely follow, yes, they "nerfed" your exploit. Yes, they had to "nerf" your exploit prior to fixing your skill lines (and my skill lines, and everybody else's skill lines). If there's an exploit, fixing that comes before improving functionality that is working.
you act like a ton of people played werewolf. Most people maxed the skill line (if even) and just play as if they arent a werewolf. None of these exploits were abused. If you have area loot on you can area devour. but you wouldnt know that.this wasn't an abused batswarm talon ult reduction exploit making werewolves into god that could kill a large group of people without really taking damage. you really can't say that it's an exploit if no one exploited it. It was simply a bug on a useless ability that no one used.

So in the long run here you make yourself look like an ass having very little information on the subject at hand and start throwing stones. Your post isn't going to attract the tears you want as most WW players are elsewhere trying to get ZoS to make a werewolf skill line so people who are werewolves can be a werewolf.

zoetaz1616

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO wrote: »

what about we nerf DK and Sorc now their class are exploit in themselves

Truth be told they should've waited with the WW to be fixed before releasing that nerf because ''go cure yourself and carry on'' is the one sentence that mean you never actualy played WW for anything but the bonus it granted or never played one at all. Well people will still play WW or vampire regardless of how bad they are and know what they will plague your party with their build because they don't have to run what you want them to run just because their build are weaker right now. You still going to get vampire and WW in your dungeon party and the funniest is because you may choose to refuse them they will just wear helmet on their head or just not use their ult at all and pretend not to be what they are. Eventually being a WW or a vamp will be shunned both on the rp and the ooc and people will hide the secret by wearing helm on their face and using full body armor. If you want to play with underpowered ally and not even know about it go on with this mentality dude soon enough we will all lie to each other. When a guy die in a dungeon you wont know its because he takes 50% more fire damage... when a guy never use his ultimate you wont even know its because hes afraid of using WW form here. WW and Vampire have an impact on your game weither you use it or not so get used to them behing here because they wont leave and 90% of the game population is either openly or secretly one of them because behing a simple human sucks and people want special flavor perks or beastly power weither come first.

With the FTC add on, you can see every buff and debuff a character has by mousing over them. Doesn't matter if you have a fancy helmet.

Ravinsild

Contrabardus wrote: »

Meanwhile: Even after the nerfs vampires still receive: 10% Magicka/Stamina recovery. Up to 50% damage mitigation beginning at 50% Health Points, Faster movement speed while in stealth, a healing skill that also provides a stun and regenerates stamina for either a greater effect a night or generates ultimate faster, a 75% damage reducing form that also allows higher than normal movement speed or deals damage over time and a huge AOE ultimate that can also heal you or turn you invisible....THAT CAN BE USED IN ALL SITUATIONS NO MATTER WHAT. (Save for Drain Essence on "mobs that are too powerful for that affect")

When is it appropriate to use Drain Essence? Any time you are injured or need your stamina bar refilled...assuming the mob isn't too powerful for that effect.

When is it appropriate to use Mist Form? Apparently any time you damn well please, even trolling people because of the horrible noise it makes every time it is activated.

When is it appropriate to use Bat Swarm? Probably on every fight you can as you can generate the 200 baseline ultimate exceedingly quickly especially depending on Ultimate discounts and assuming you are a DK that generates 2 Ultimate every time you use an Earthen Heart ability, or a Templar that uses a Sun ability...or have any degree of ultimate discounts from the vampiric Stage 4 to certain gear sets and class benefits.

Actually, no. Most of the passives for vamp don't work, and the few that do stop working when you die.

Mist Form is somewhat useful, but lost it's largest benefit, as an escape skill. It can still be used to take a large damage attack, provided you can see it coming. In it's current state it's useful for tanking a heavy boss attack or a mob about to hit you with an AoE special. It's also still vulnerable to several attacks it should not be, such as snares.

Drain Essence has a nasty habit of not working a lot, and I don't mean as in "This mob is too powerful for that effect". Often you'll get stuck in the animation and nothing will happen just like what happens with the pounce WW ability, though it does wear off on it's own it still leaves you vulnerable. It also has a habit of breaking off after a split second granting barely any recovery, but your target will still be invulnerable to using it again in either case.

Bat Swarm is still a little OP, but it's no longer any worse about being spammed than any other Ult with the same passives, and the vamp ult passive usually doesn't work.

Vamps only have it slightly better than WWs do because the only skills that work without issues are the Ult and the Bite Skill. You try to make it sound like Vamp is all sunshine and rainbows compared to WW, but the skill line is just as broken and vamps only have it any better because they don't have to transform.

I have a veteran rank 2 and a veteran rank 4 vampire, and I have leveled both to vampire rank 10 and I give out free bites once a week.

I can confirm: Supernatural Recovery with 2 skill points invested works. Unnatural Resistance works. Undeath works. Savage Feeding works. Blood Ritual works...and Dark Stalker works until you die.

How can I confirm? My Veteran Rank 4 Vampire was cured and lost a lot of survivability without the heals from Drain Essence and Undeath.

Upon regaining my vampirism back my magicka and stamina recovery suddenly became overcharged as I invested the points into Supernatural Recovery.

How can I confirm Blood Ritual works? I've been turning people every week.

How can I confirm that Unnatural Resistance works? Monitoring my HP regeneration levels constantly between phases and whilst leveling my vampiric forms (You drop something like 20 HPR from Stage 1 to Stage 4, it's a massive difference, but less so with Unnatural Resistance. Still not worth being lower than Stage 2 ever, however, discounts to skills be damned)

Perhaps the only passive that doesn't work is the Stage 2-4 discounts, but I never bothered to drop below Stage 2 for any amount of time to notice because I can't stand how hideous stage 4 is.

Whilst sometimes the abilities do break (I've been stuck in that strange drain position before) their benefits far outweigh the werewolf actives, so really it is sunshine and rainbows.

With Pounce you: Move to another target dealing barely any damage and over half the time bug out.

With Drain Essence you: Barely ever run into problems and gain massive health and stamina gains (enough to fill your stamina bar from empty as a stamina heavy build using 3/5 weapon skills from the two-handed line tree in regular rotation) in addition to stunning your target effectively removing them from combat for the duration. The drain is so powerful that 90% of damage taken by nearby mobs is ignored or mitigated so powerfully it is virtually undetectable giving you insane surviability from massive groups of mobs as you alt tab and drain when needed through them or 1v1 with powerful mobs who are not immune to its effects.

With Roar you: Can fear up to 3 targets...they can often run into other packs of mobs and aggro them, cannot control the direction the mobs move to shepard them into a bad location and often have clumsy/botched follow ups including Pounce half the time not knocking down the vulnerable mobs as it properly should.

With Mist Form you: Can escape danger by moving quickly away, even though the effect is now weaker than before. You can soak more damage than normal. Helps you in retreating in-case you pull too many mobs (somehow).

The werewolf ultimate is required to unlock the above two abilities that do jack-all...and costs 1,000.

The Vampire Ultimate deals AOE damage for a powerful amount, can heal you or turn you invisible granting even more survivability and costs 200.

Seriously try out both sides and max them out to 10 like I have (twice for vampires) before you speak.

Vampires are still a force to be reckoned with in PvP as well. When have you EVER seen a werewolf in PvP and it actually did anything note worthy? Where are the YouTube videos for that, or the forum complaints? Why is nobody talking about Werewolves in the Alliance War section?

Because they're utter rubbish for PvP and barely, BARELY viable for PvE...meanwhile the vampire.. despite the nerfs still offers a TON in flexibility, surviability, damage and over-all enjoyable experience.

Grao

ZOS_RobinsonE wrote: »

Hello everyone,

We moved this thread to the World Skill section of the forum as it is about the werewolf skill-line.

Also, it is fine to discuss the incoming patches and fixes, but keep the thread in line with the Forum Code of Conduct.

Are you serious??? We have at least 4 posts going about the Werewolf Situation and instead of a descent reply, that is the best ZOS can do? Relocate our posts so it gets less attention? You can't give us a paragraph about being aware how much you screwed up with the Werewolf skill line, apologize and promise it will be fixed soon? >.> Really??