Why does Craglorn even exist yet?

Pandarus

Zenimax please prioritize.

If bots are running around aimlessly and constant exploits are still present, why has as much time been invested into new content this early? I understand the need for advancement for all of the "hardcores" but generally people like my self who are around the Veteran 1-3 areas don't see a need for new content yet and wont see a need for while still. I am quite satisfied with the expansive world that allows you to eventually experience each faction at different levels and skill requirements and I luckily still feel no need for new content as I'm quite happy how it's going.

Most people will say "Well if Zenimax doesn't make new content they will lose players." no, incorrect, if Zenimax doesn't produce a working product they will lose players.

bluesodafizz

Yes I would be most appreciative if the game was running a bit better and more bugs were addressed before new content is added to the game. They could at least push it back a few months like they pushed back the console launch dates.

Attorneyatlawl

Customer service doesn't handle content creation or programming. Hate to break it to you, but third-party cheat bots are a completely different thing to creating new areas for the game on ZOS' end. And for some of us the "adventure" and "expansive world" is already long done with, and our guilds need something challenging and fun to organize activities for other than PVP only.

I for one am quite glad to see them getting ahead of the general population curve. Creating new zones is not biting into their CSR's banning bots, I promise.

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO

Couldn't bother just adding your post to the other hundred people who have no idea how project management, programs or IT business works?

Pandarus

Have fun logging out after everytime you die in Craglorn to reset your passives.

Attorneyatlawl

Pandarus wrote: »

Have fun logging out after everytime you die in Craglorn to reset your passives.

For a vampire? Good thing A.) they're fixing it in 1.1 anyway, and B.) most of us aren't vampires anyway.

Have fun trolling the forums.

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

Couldn't bother just adding your post to the other hundred people who have no idea how project management, programs or IT business works?

YOU MEAN THE PERSON ANSWERING THE PHONE DOESN'T HANDLE IN-DEPTH SYSTEMS LOAD ANALYSIS AND ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN!?!?!?!!?!?!!!!!
/sarcasm of course

Axer

They really shouldn't let a few bots and minor exploits ruin the experience of the game for the end game players.

I and many others are eagerly awaiting craglorn.

In my daily gameplay experience I see zero bots personally. They are only present at the low levels of the game and really don't harm anything major at all imo.

Also since the game lacks ANY endgame atm, Craglorn was obviously designed and intended to be in the game at launch, so it was worked on long before they even realised theyd have issue with bots.

Reevster

This is one reason EQ1 died, SOE/Varent started catering too all the power lvlers/uber guilds and brought in content that only they could use while most of the normal players lost interest because they didn't have a hope in hell of ever being able to use alot of the new content because they didn't play 24/7 .I hope ESO doesn't forget about the average player non power lvler.

Attorneyatlawl

Axer wrote: »

They really shouldn't let a few bots and minor exploits ruin the experience of the game for the end game players.

I and many others are eagerly awaiting craglorn.

In my daily gameplay experience I see zero bots personally. They are only present at the low levels of the game and really don't harm anything major at all imo.

Also since the game lacks ANY endgame atm, Craglorn was obviously designed and intended to be in the game at launch, so it was worked on long before they even realised theyd have issue with bots.

Tunnel-vision is a brutal thing... these people have no idea how development or project management works, yet all they can focus on is their own experience in the game and do not think outside of that. If they are low level and see a bot, they immediately run to the forums to complain, never once stopping to think that perhaps bots aren't really present in most areas at this point, and being banned constantly. They then run and whine that other people are asking for things they don't yet need (of course they don't even think about what would happen once they did), scapegoating these other things as somehow magically preventing their overblown "problems" from being "solved".

Pandarus

If you haven't realized that most passives break after death not only for vampires (which I'm not even a vampire) then that sucks.

alarikub17_ESO

Possibly since Cyrodiil is so crash happy and it was meant to be a centrepiece of end game they decided to move up Craglorn? (just speculation on my part)

Attorneyatlawl

Pandarus wrote: »

If you haven't realized that most passives break after death not only for vampires (which I'm not even a vampire) then that sucks.

Maybe you should take a look into it yourself. That is a pretty rare bug at this point that occasionally happens with light armor passives. Zoning and relogging then fixes it typically.

Reevster wrote: »

This is one reason EQ1 died, SOE/Varent started catering too all the power lvlers/uber guilds and brought in content that only they could use while most of the normal players lost interest because they didn't have a hope in hell of ever being able to use alot of the new content because they didn't play 24/7 .I hope ESO doesn't forget about the average player non power lvler.

It's been about 6 weeks since head start. You don't need to be a "power lvler" (not that that's even a bad thing, it's actually just as valid a playstyle as doddling around slowly through the world, although arguably takes a lot more skill but that's a bit of a tangent...) to have been veteran rank 10 for a long time at this point. By the way I heard Star Wars: The Old Republic died too from making extra endgame content, adding more PVP areas, and continually improving their raids. In fact they died so badly they are now the second biggest subscription MMO service next to World of Warcraft. Yep, adding endgame content which is where everyone ends up anyway, sure failed for them! /sarcasm

As I said above... "Tunnel-vision is a brutal thing...", if you're low level you have plenty left to do and the addition of new content is not biting into their customer service representatives handling your support tickets and banning goldseller bots. I promise.

Reenlister

It gets down to this.
The plan was made long in advance. Release, and have some new stuff on the burners ahead of time. Not a bad idea on paper.
However, anyone with any military time knows the old saying, "no plan survives contact with the enemy"
Well, the plan has hit the enemy.
Its not that adding content is a bad thing, nor is the fixing of things obviously not smart. We the players just don't see the point in pushing the new out with the broken things laying around.
They are still fixing things, it just has not been to the communities desired time frame or with any real PR like Crag has been getting.
A little change in plans such as some more info flow would not hurt, but the overall addition of content is actually kind of needed, since many of us have hit the V levels. However, maybe some fixes first would be in good order, instead of pushing those back with the new content release.

On a different note about Crag, I am not really in a hurry for it. I am not overjoyed at a new zone that will only encourage elitism further with the addition of the leaders boards, and the forced aspect of grouping just to be able to play there.
Now before anyone says, well its an MMO your supposed to play together. Yes, I agree, but the whole idea I must be grouped to enjoy any new content is rather bland to me.

ChairGraveyard

I've always thought the crime/justice system and Dark Brotherhood/Thieves' Guild would be a better first patch than Craglorn, given that it adds new gameplay for people of all levels, and even some content for different playstyles (i.e., PvP via player-guards).

I'm also not a fan of the ever-receeding goalpost nature of increasing levels constantly, but that's a different matter.

One other concern is that Trials, because of their timed nature, will encourage people to exploit to get to the top of the leaderboards, as well as make it difficult if not impossible to find a group that is uninterested in exploiting a good time, or just playing the dungeon for fun. I much rather would have had regular, non-timed 12-man dungeons. Even an option to enter them without the timer would be good enough.

Orizuru

There is a saying in Project Management that everyone here would do well to learn and understand.

You can't put 9 women in a room together and make a baby in one month.


And if you still aren't getting it... Just because they have resources allocated to a project that you feel is less important than another project, doesn't mean that the project you care about would benefit from adding additional resources.

Attorneyatlawl

Reenlister wrote: »

It gets down to this.
Now before anyone says, well its an MMO your supposed to play together. Yes, I agree, but the whole idea I must be grouped to enjoy any new content is rather bland to me.

Good thing they are adding a variety of patches including solo, group, pvp, quest, and economic content over the next several months then! What was your complaint exactly? That they didn't prioritize the specific patch you wanted, first?

Soloeus

Axer wrote: »

In my daily gameplay experience I see zero bots personally. They are only present at the low levels of the game and really don't harm anything major at all imo.

This is called Justification; you have accepted the idea of botters under the premise they don't impact you. They are everywhere, and one way they do impact you is the economy.

Those infinite jute bugged nodes are allowing mass hordes of Dreugh Wax, and Elegant Lining. Then they are sold to a vendor after being refined.

One way they will impact you later is when PVP guilds are running linked up warbot networks.

ZiRM

It exists to give the exploiters that made it to VR10 within a couple days something to look forward to.

Pandarus

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

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Reenlister wrote: »

It gets down to this.
Now before anyone says, well its an MMO your supposed to play together. Yes, I agree, but the whole idea I must be grouped to enjoy any new content is rather bland to me.

Good thing they are adding a variety of patches including solo, group, pvp, quest, and economic content over the next several months then! What was your complaint exactly? That they didn't prioritize the specific patch you wanted, first?

Obviously your part of the minority party pro Craglorn rather than exploitable areas being reworked to increase intended leveling time. Congrats

Attorneyatlawl

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

I've always thought the crime/justice system and Dark Brotherhood/Thieves' Guild would be a better first patch than Craglorn, given that it adds new gameplay for people of all levels, and even some content for different playstyles (i.e., PvP via player-guards).

I'm also not a fan of the ever-receeding goalpost nature of increasing levels constantly, but that's a different matter.

One other concern is that Trials, because of their timed nature, will encourage people to exploit to get to the top of the leaderboards, as well as make it difficult if not impossible to find a group that is uninterested in exploiting a good time, or just playing the dungeon for fun. I much rather would have had regular, non-timed 12-man dungeons. Even an option to enter them without the timer would be good enough.

Heaven forfend skill be shown off in a game. Terrible thing, that... everyone needs their participation medal I guess? You can enter them and not care at all about the timer, as it only affects the top 100 by giving them extra loot, regardless. Again, the content you want is also being worked on, but it's not going to come any faster by complaining about something else coming first that was already in the works long before launch.

I also cannot begin to even respond to silliness like "it makes people exploit!"... by that logic PVP should be removed as well as levels and all achievements. I mean, we can't POSSIBLY have any competitive aspects in a videogame at all or we risk someone trying to cheat and get banned, instead it's best to ruin the competition for everyone just because of hypothetical exploiters. At least, according to you that is.

Pandarus

Soloeus wrote: »

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Axer wrote: »

In my daily gameplay experience I see zero bots personally. They are only present at the low levels of the game and really don't harm anything major at all imo.

This is called Justification; you have accepted the idea of botters under the premise they don't impact you. They are everywhere, and one way they do impact you is the economy.

Those infinite jute bugged nodes are allowing mass hordes of Dreugh Wax, and Elegant Lining. Then they are sold to a vendor after being refined.

One way they will impact you later is when PVP guilds are running linked up warbot networks.

Perfect understanding of how I feel.

Qhival

Ignorant posts like this always irritate me.

Game development teams have all sorts of talent.

The lead developers have their hand in everything, while the rest of the developers are specialized and departmentalized.

They have writers, artists, web designers, programmers, networking support and so on. Not only that, but each department is specialized farther in subgroups like UI, quests mechanics, pvp mechanics and so on.

The world is assembly lined. You should figure that out with your first job.

Reevster

[/quote]

It's been about 6 weeks since head start. You don't need to be a "power lvler" (not that that's even a bad thing, it's actually just as valid a playstyle as doddling around slowly through the world, although arguably takes a lot more skill but that's a bit of a tangent...) to have been veteran rank 10 for a long time at this point. By the way I heard Star Wars: The Old Republic died too from making extra endgame content, adding more PVP areas, and continually improving their raids. In fact they died so badly they are now the second biggest subscription MMO service next to World of Warcraft. Yep, adding endgame content which is where everyone ends up anyway, sure failed for them! /sarcasm

[/quote]

Lol you have been VET 10 for a long time ? It took more skill to do it or you mean more knowledge of exploits...

Maybe the Old Republic did it right but EQ1 didnt...

Pandarus

NiRN wrote: »

It exists to give the exploiters that made it to VR10 within a couple days something to look forward to.

That's what I'm saying what the hell is their mentality?

Attorneyatlawl

Pandarus wrote: »

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Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Reenlister wrote: »

It gets down to this.
Now before anyone says, well its an MMO your supposed to play together. Yes, I agree, but the whole idea I must be grouped to enjoy any new content is rather bland to me.

Good thing they are adding a variety of patches including solo, group, pvp, quest, and economic content over the next several months then! What was your complaint exactly? That they didn't prioritize the specific patch you wanted, first?

Obviously your part of the minority party pro Craglorn rather than exploitable areas being reworked to increase intended leveling time. Congrats

What on Earth are you going on about now? Bug fixing of exploits (which probably a hundredth of one percent or less statistically have even used who are VR10, so don't call everyone a cheater and come off like a jack ***) has nothing to do with adding new content for everyone to enjoy. As others have said... that "nine women can't make a baby in one month" saying is on-target here.

kirnmalidus

ZOS has even publicly addressed this concern in interviews, making it very clear that the Craglorn team is completely independent of the team(s) fixing the bugs, dealing with bots, etc.

Pandarus

kirnmalidus wrote: »

ZOS has even publicly addressed this concern in interviews, making it very clear that the Craglorn team is completely independent of the team(s) fixing the bugs, dealing with bots, etc.

Then why do I have to watch exclusive interviews to find anything out about this cryptic company? And any proof or a source?

Attorneyatlawl

NiRN wrote: »

It exists to give the exploiters that made it to VR10 within a couple days something to look forward to.

This silly myth being perpetuated by people is hilarious. I was VR1 in the morning on April 1st and I took my sweet time getting there, going in with no specific leveling plan and spending a few hours finangling with who to partner with while I leveled. It only takes about 90 hours at most to get to VR10, and it's been over 6 weeks since head start began. If you think everyone there exploited to get there... that's just pathetic and as silly as painting anyone who hasn't with a brush of being a noob. Neither is correct.

Faffrd

I grew up in a world where it wasnt the destination , it was the journey. I was here for the 5 extra days headstart and I'm only level 37. Its not because I suck, or I'm "not playing the game right". Its because I take time to stop and smell the roses. WOW has so twisted everyones perspective on mmo's that everyone *** if there is no end-game. What happened to the mid-game? I don't want to hurry up and level just to get high level to keep up with the Joneses. I DONOT and WILL NOT keep up with the Joneses. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. End game and new content is all swell and dandy, but you are pushing away customers who can't get over broken skill trees, quests, etc. Remeber, not everyone plays the way you do, and everyone enjoys gaming diffrently. But everyone suffers from bugs that should be fixed before adding new stuff. The new stuff will just add new bugs. See the cycle that happens here?

Pandarus

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

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NiRN wrote: »

It exists to give the exploiters that made it to VR10 within a couple days something to look forward to.

This silly myth being perpetuated by people is hilarious. I was VR1 in the morning on April 1st and I took my sweet time getting there, going in with no specific leveling plan and spending a few hours finangling with who to partner with while I leveled. It only takes about 90 hours at most to get to VR10, and it's been over 6 weeks since head start began. If you think everyone there exploited to get there... that's just pathetic and as silly as painting anyone who hasn't with a brush of being a noob. Neither is correct.

How the hell is that OK that you were VR1 at that point? Obviously something is broken and doesn't it bother you that if something wasn't broken that you were able to do it that fast?

Attorneyatlawl

Reevster wrote: »

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It's been about 6 weeks since head start. You don't need to be a "power lvler" (not that that's even a bad thing, it's actually just as valid a playstyle as doddling around slowly through the world, although arguably takes a lot more skill but that's a bit of a tangent...) to have been veteran rank 10 for a long time at this point. By the way I heard Star Wars: The Old Republic died too from making extra endgame content, adding more PVP areas, and continually improving their raids. In fact they died so badly they are now the second biggest subscription MMO service next to World of Warcraft. Yep, adding endgame content which is where everyone ends up anyway, sure failed for them! /sarcasm

Lol you have been VET 10 for a long time ? It took more skill to do it or you mean more knowledge of exploits...

Maybe the Old Republic did it right but EQ1 didnt...

It took more skill. You probably shouldn't make baseless accusations when you very obviously have no clue whatsoever of what you're even talking about. Anyone who's played around 2 hours a day on average could have easily been at this point with time to spare. Look within or at your playstyle if you aren't and have played about that amount of time.

HINT: Look at signature. Read. You might understand why I had some idea of what I was doing as to how to play efficiently.