Please remove the soft caps (diminishing returns)

ralurielb16_ESO

Hard caps are needed to safeguard against bugs, exploits or design oopies. These serve a valid purpose.

Soft caps only inhibit. As for their purpose...I'm still at a loss. They stop shallow specs or they aren't so bad I can't see as solid reasons for them.

AlliN

First you argue TES players would not even want that choice. Now you argue, if given that choice everyone would choose it.

You totally changed the meaning of my words by adding your own, I said that TES fans would not like having to go for cookie-cutter specs (not the choice), and that it would create disparity between stat-stackign builds and hybrid builds, becasue the game mechanic is not able to support both those ways in terms of effectivity because of how scaling is done. you twisted what I've said, or did not understand it.

The downside of this is you are afriad people will make cookie cutter classes. So, i ask you, so what?
You will never be able to tell. It would never affect your game.
So, why do you care?

First off, I'm not afraid. I'm not short-sighted like you, and unable to see behind damage counter. Decission like that would change entire structure of classes and class-building ideas, because maths will be maths. With the current system at hand, there would be only one way to make 100% efficient characters. It was tested in one of closed betas, I was there, and it was not good. After 2 days we came up with the optimal choice for every class based on the spreadsheet. This is what you are defending. Excell Knights Online. It WAS TESTED. It does not work well here, as skills are very far from each other in terms of effectiveness and it's easy to single out best ones, and best stat scaling.

So, why do you care?

Becasue I'm paying for it monthly and I would prefere more in-depth game than another copy/paste mmo with standarised builds?

Blackwidow

Brayton wrote: »

So, if I decide the soft caps are the way to go and enjoy the system, I have to pander to your new system, even though I entered the game knowing there were soft caps.

Pander to what?

This game will not break because of the soft caps. Never fix something that is not broken.

If we listened to that kind of negativity, we would never have true first person view.

Incidentally, I want more grinding in groups like the old days. Would I rant about it on a forum? No. Because I don't have to play this game. It is not an obligation.

If you don't fight for what you want, it is your fault for not getting it.

disexistencenub19_ESO

Soft cap just reduces what you gain. You are still gaining something by overcharging, even if it is minimal. I like the fact that I do not feel forced into a certain gear/stat setup as much, even if it does still exist to an extent in a different manner. Removing the soft cap would just force everyone into exact cookie cutters and min/max setups and an army of lookalikes/clones (ie best in slot). At least now, you have some variety and flexibility to do as you want.

ralurielb16_ESO

AlliN wrote: »

First off, I'm not afraid. I'm not short-sighted like you, and unable to see behind damage counter. Decission like that would change entire structure of classes and class-building ideas, because maths will be maths. With the current system at hand, there would be only one way to make 100% efficient characters. It was tested in one of closed betas, I was there, and it was not good. After 2 days we came up with the optimal choice for every class based on the spreadsheet. This is what you are defending. Excell Knights Online. It WAS TESTED. It does not work well here, as skills are very far from each other in terms of effectiveness and it's easy to single out best ones, and best stat scaling.

So what you're saying is the purpose of diminishing returns is to be a band aid on a broken system?

Blackwidow

AlliN wrote: »

TES fans would not like having to go for cookie-cutter specs (not the choice), and that it would create disparity between stat-stackign builds and hybrid builds, becasue the game mechanic is not able to support both those ways in terms of effectivity because of how scaling is done.

Well, I'm a TES fan, so you are wrong.

With the current system at hand, there would be only one way to make 100% efficient characters.

You have no idea what you are talking about. How do you know that a sorc with 100% mana would beat a sorc with 75% mana and 25% in health?

You don't.

Not only that, but you claim everyone would do this, but again, you are wrong. People have different play styles. That is a fact.

It was tested in one of closed betas, I was there, and it was not good.

ROFLMAO!!!

I was in the beta for over a year. I played everyday. So, I'm glad you got a weekend in and learned a fraction of what the game was like back then, but sorry, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Let me clue you in on the problem. When you hit VR10, you drop all points and put them all into health. The softcap makes pretty much everyone play this way. Complete cookie cutter. The thing you are trying to prevent.

gnomfupub18_ESO

I play an imperial Sorcerer wearing full heavy armor and 2h sword. I've managed to hit the soft cap on 4 stats without trying too hard (only lvl 18) : Armor, Damage, Stamina and Sta Regen.
I like the fact i can play however i want, and hope this continues to V10.
Most of these caps were hit with only green/white gear and enchants, so it makes leveling easier on the pocketbook and time spent. But again i hope i'm not setting myself up for disappointment when i hit V1 and find out i now struggle to kill mobs.

AlliN

You have no idea what you are talking about. How do you know that a sorc with 100% mana would beat a sorc with 75% mana and 25% in health?

Becasue he would miss on 25% of spell damage coefficient?

Not only that, but you claim everyone would do this, but again, you are wrong. People have different play styles. That is a fact.

I'm done, you can't even read becasue of your blindfold. I never said everyone would do it, I said this would be the most chart-optimal way of point distribution.

I was in the beta for over a year. I played everyday.

Shame you created a different account to show it off then. Would actualy confirm what you say.

The softcap makes pretty much everyone play this way.

How do you know if you can't see their specs? Your words.

ralurielb16_ESO

gnomfupub18_ESO wrote: »

I play an imperial Sorcerer wearing full heavy armor and 2h sword. I've managed to hit the soft cap on 4 stats without trying too hard (only lvl 18) : Armor, Damage, Stamina and Sta Regen.
I like the fact i can play however i want, and hope this continues to V10.
Most of these caps were hit with only green/white gear and enchants, so it makes leveling easier on the pocketbook and time spent. But again i hope i'm not setting myself up for disappointment when i hit V1 and find out i now struggle to kill mobs.

You'll find as you hit the higher Vet levels the mob HP/damage goes up so much compared to players that experimenting becomes a luxury. I put my optimum skills on my main weapon and any skills I want training on the second weap and just switch when handing in a quest.

Blackwidow

AlliN wrote: »

Becasue he would miss on 25% of spell damage coefficient?

So, the guy with 25% more hp would lose to the guy with more mana because spell damage difference?

You do know that the guy with 100 mana will have 25% less hp, so the guy with 75% mana needs less damage to kill him. Your argument does not hold water.

I never said everyone would do it, I said this would be the most chart-optimal way of point distribution.

So, back to the fact that everyone won't be cookie cutter, this makes your point mute.

Shame you created a different account to show it off then. Would actualy confirm what you say.

You do know we we told to use are normal accounts for the monkey, right?

What proof would you like?

How do you know if you can't see their specs? Your words.

You obviously never made it to VR10.

What happens is, the buffs from the armor maxes out your mana above the soft cap with 0 points in mana. So, you can add points in mana with only getting half the result and being able to cast just 2 or 3 more spells, or you can have about 1500 more health. 50 points plus other buffs.

So, everyone points in health. You will learn this when you get there.

gnomfupub18_ESO

You'll find as you hit the higher Vet levels the mob HP/damage goes up so much compared to players that experimenting becomes a luxury. I put my optimum skills on my main weapon and any skills I want training on the second weap and just switch when handing in a quest.
[/quote]

I took a sorcerer for the pets (clannfear and Ultimate). other than that i'm pure stamina based damage and heavy armor for reductions. The problem is my CC and healing are lacking (right now) and this is what i hope to avoid being boxed into.

Right now i'm having fun with : crystal shard followed by charge then reverse. This will usually kill 1 mob. If there are 2 mobs i switch to the next with heavy attacks and bleeds. if there are 3 mobs the pet will grab aggro on 1 or 2 mobs and i can work through them with minimal damage taken. If there is a healer (which is OP) in the group i drop the Ultimate pet and clear the healer first.

got sidetracked abit there. Because this is a skill based game and i can choose whichever playing style i like. I hope that softcaps allow us to make the builds we want and can level to V10 without having to abandon these builds because the mobs begin to outpower all but the CC / healing builds.

But time will tell if i can't group because i'm a 2H / heavy armor sorcerer instead of light armor / destruction staff...

Lynnessa

I disagree with the OP.

disexistencenub19_ESO wrote: »

Soft cap just reduces what you gain. You are still gaining something by overcharging, even if it is minimal. I like the fact that I do not feel forced into a certain gear/stat setup as much, even if it does still exist to an extent in a different manner. Removing the soft cap would just force everyone into exact cookie cutters and min/max setups and an army of lookalikes/clones (ie best in slot). At least now, you have some variety and flexibility to do as you want.

axw_ESO

We had this argument on the BETA boards ad-nauseum. Somewhere around 3-4k posts were made on the subject. My take away from all that noise was . . . .

Because overcharge happens at such a low ceiling, players are herded towards similar builds in order to get the most out of their equipment. This directly contravenes the stated philosophy of character diversity that ZOS put forth.

Brayton

Blackwidow wrote: »

Brayton wrote: »

So, if I decide the soft caps are the way to go and enjoy the system, I have to pander to your new system, even though I entered the game knowing there were soft caps.

Pander to what?

This game will not break because of the soft caps. Never fix something that is not broken.

If we listened to that kind of negativity, we would never have true first person view.

Incidentally, I want more grinding in groups like the old days. Would I rant about it on a forum? No. Because I don't have to play this game. It is not an obligation.

If you don't fight for what you want, it is your fault for not getting it.

1. Pander to the wants of a person not happy with the soft caps. Was that not clear?
2. First person was a cosmetic issue, not a battle system issue. It is also optional. I would not have played if it were first person only.
3. I don't 'fight' for anything in a game. Most of the MMOs that have listened too much to threads like this have gone to the wall.

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO

Yea, I love playing a game where I get a new piece of gear with 20 more magicka on it and I only get a 2 increase to magicka when I put it on, makes all the effort of improving my char worth it!

I agree with the OP in that if I get a piece of gear that says it will improve a certainly stat by a certain amount then I can want to count on it actually improving that stat by said amount.

PVE will die out pretty quickly when you realise that you are investing a great deal of effort just to get, well, pretty much nothing.

Games are about risk vs reward and blocking people from feeling like they are getting stronger due to softcaps has already made veteran content feel irrelevant, it's only going to feel worse after your invest time in a dungeon, potentially get some loot worth wearing and end up exactly where you were when you started (unless you really do get excited over a 1 or 2 point stat increase). In my mind the soft caps make the risk and time investment feel pretty redunant.

If I wanted a game where I just wanted my avatar to look pretty, i'd play second life. Instead I want to play an RPG where I can progress my character, and typically that involves being able to choose which stats I improve, not being forced into a certain choice by the game mechanics.

Kiwi

level up
or is that too hard?

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO

Kiwi wrote: »

level up
or is that too hard?

I'm almost VR7, not much room to grow to be honest!