How can I remove my character's top?

Csub

Zionysus wrote: »

Aellaren wrote: »

The male is bare skinned because it's not considered a sexual or inappropriate part of the male form.

Please explain how the female breast is sexual! And why are they inappropriate but the male's aren't?

Because bewbz.

ozgod22_eso

Archmage wrote: »

I have noticed many male player characters running around Tamriel, without a top. However, my female character seems to be broken. Whenever I remove her armor, she instantly appears with a black bikini.

ESO received an "M" for mature rating. So, having purchased the game, I wondered why male and female characters are treated differently. Is this a bug, or a "feature?" In New York city, i.e. "the real world" a woman may go topless, any place a man can go topless. However in this implementation of the fictional world of Tamriel, women must cover-up.

In the United States, the 14th amendment guarantees equal protection under the law. So where is the equal treatment in the game world? The Terms of Use take a stand against racism and religious persecution, but the game itself apparently actively supports sexism.

Outside of the U.S. in "civilized" countries, women are also entitled to the same rights and freedoms as men.

Furthermore, as a player I can over-indulge in intoxicating substances. I can slice, bash, hack, blast, burn or electrocute numerous NPC's of both genders. I can lie, cheat and steal from NPC's. But I cannot go topless. That's a very interesting, if not twisted message.

So, is this a bug, or is ESO discriminating against women?

You posted all that because you want to see your character's boobies? I think Age of Conan lets you see women characters' boobies.

Archmage

Talasma wrote: »

This discussion ended up being more funny than I expected. Thanks for the laughs.

I am glad I am able to enjoy this game without seeing a bunch of man/lady parts flopping around...

I believe that you missed the point. I did not request nudity, I requested equality. As genitalia are covered, what "male parts" are there to flop around? I simply ask for shirt-less equality.

Discrimination is real. It's no wonder that so many men don't see it, when it appears that most women can't even see it.

I have drawn criticism for requesting equality. Prior to 1920, women were not allowed to vote in Federal elections in the United States. I wonder how many women who posted here, would have mocked those wanting equality.

I agree that men and women are substantially different. I don't agree that a person's rights should be determined by their gender. I feel very sorry for those of you that do...

seaef

This has to be a troll...

Eris

Take a two-handed sword (or if you're small a two-handed axe would do)... hold it about waist level while standing between two tree stumps... now jump up really fast (as high as you can) and land with both ends of the weapon on the stumps. Congratulations, you've removed your top (unless you didn't get high enough with the jump, then if you can make it to your feet, try again).

YourNameHere

I suggest you go play Age of Conan if you want to see virtual breasts.

I am a woman and I don't feel discriminated against. *shrugs* Why would I? I want to see bare male chests!

What a wierd topic ....

Archmage

cfurlin wrote: »

This has to be a troll...

No, although it has gone far afield. I never asked for complete nudity and my request was not for the purpose of seeing bare breasts. Anyone with access to the internet can see all the nudity, et al. they desire with a few clicks.

As I pointed out, this game received an "M" rating. As others have pointed out, there have been games that shipped with equal gender nudity. And as still others have pointed out, there have been mods that "enforced nudity" on the game's female population. So, why the gender bias here?

If the situation were reversed, and female character's had bare chests, but males wore some kind of under-shirt, there would be numerous women screaming sexploitation. What honestly grieves me is those same women don't see both sides of the coin.

There is a reason that "Lady Justice" often appears blindfolded, but always with the balance in level. Why is equality such a difficult goal?

Talasma

Archmage wrote: »

I believe that you missed the point. I did not request nudity, I requested equality. As genitalia are covered, what "male parts" are there to flop around? I simply ask for shirt-less equality.

So you agree that female parts flop around and males don't? They have the same names in the same locations but you can understand that they are different and how one is seen as sexual and the other isn't (at least I hope by now after two pages of people pointing out the obvious). I didn't miss the point but you had to focus on that part of my whole reply. That was simply one reason I am glad we do not have "shirtless equality". Yes discrimination is real. You take your shirt off in front of men and see if you get the same reaction as any guy taking it off would. I agree with you there but that doesn't mean I need to put in a game I actually like. I don't wanna see it. Plain and simple. That is simply my taste. When they change it, I will simply check the box to put bras on these people. Easy.

Csub

Mods in previous TES games are optional, nudity wasn't there by basic. (I think they wanted for Oblivion but then removed but I might be mistaken.)
And the M rating is there for the violence and occasional sexual references.
There is equality in game, you see NPCs of both genders in all kinds of positions, from peasants to leaders, on the battlefield in towns.


And yes, AoC had toplessness but I cannot recall any other MMOs that can say the same without nude mods, so why being upset? Or are you arguing about this in every single MMO's forums?

Laura

Wow! this is an extremely well thought out and intelligent way of saying, "me want see boobies"

I commend you - seriously. (i'm actually not being sarcastic)

JosephChip

This game actually takes a stand against sexism by preventing perverted creeps like you creating female characters and objectifying them by stripping them naked. Public decency is not sexism.

p.s. AoC had topless women because Conan fiction has kind of a tradition for that. A tradition born decades ago thanks to a sexist mentality.

Melian

They are sexual because society defines them as such. No collection of letters is inherently sexual, but if I switch the first letter of "duck" it will be considered sexual and censored on this forum. What the ****?
Showing boobs in a game won't change the fact that they're seen as sexual; it will just send a message about what sort of game it is and who it's designed for - and that would be sexist.

lecarcajou_ESO

Topless, shmopless... I'm still waiting for a way to have my male toons drop those shorts and put the stones back in Stonefalls.

DragonLane555

Aellaren wrote: »

I cant believe this needs to be explained, I dont think you understand sexism lol. The male is bare skinned because it's not considered a sexual or inappropriate part of the male form. You'll find the male toon also wears underwear without his armor, as the female does. Also this was exactly the same in all the other original TES games, only with mods were the characters nude,
If you're looking for nude characters this is not the game you are looking for lol. And it is not discrimination or sexism, as a female i can verify this lol.

Ok this really has nothing to do with the issues described in this thread. I just feel an overwhelming need to correct people who miss state things about the games. LoL.

FYI the Female PC, and many female NPCs in TES 2 Daggerfall could go topless. I think it was the same in TES 1 Arena, but the last time I played that one was in the 90s so my memory is fuzzy

Hadria

This is too much to writing going on in this thread for you to just say you want to see boobs

Archmage

Talasma wrote: »

Archmage wrote: »

I believe that you missed the point. I did not request nudity, I requested equality. As genitalia are covered, what "male parts" are there to flop around? I simply ask for shirt-less equality.

So you agree that female parts flop around and males don't? They have the same names in the same locations but you can understand that they are different and how one is seen as sexual and the other isn't (at least I hope by now after two pages of people pointing out the obvious). I didn't miss the point but you had to focus on that part of my whole reply. That was simply one reason I am glad we do not have "shirtless equality". Yes discrimination is real. You take your shirt off in front of men and see if you get the same reaction as any guy taking it off would. I agree with you there but that doesn't mean I need to put in a game I actually like. I don't wanna see it. Plain and simple. That is simply my taste. When they change it, I will simply check the box to put bras on these people. Easy.

We almost have common ground here. I like the game too. If they ever put a female-shirtless option, I may check the bikini-on box too, but then in the interest of equality, I would want the same option for the male characters.

I do disagree about the sexual nature of female breasts. This is a culture-specific phenomenon. In many countries, including most of Europe, a bare female chest is not a cause for a riot and rarely causes even staring. It was odd for me as an American the first time I saw it, but in time it became "normal." On a warm summer day I would be surprised if there wasn't someone sitting topless on a park bench getting some sun.

I don't know how many women you have seen breastfeeding, but I can assure you there is absolutely nothing "sexy" about it. Thankfully this is now "legal" and "protected" within the United States. Again, NYC has now made it legal for women to go topless, in the city, for no reason, just because its fair. On any given day you would be hard-pressed to see a single topless woman in the streets. But its GREAT that its at least an option.

So, back to my original question. If the male character can go topless, why can't the female character? Are women "unclean" or "less attractive" than a man, so that they must cover up? Or is this just a clear double-standard?

What is wrong with equality?

Loxy37

Best thing you can do is go and play conan because you wont get any titillation here except these forums perhaps

annarr1117nub18_ESO

Nudity in TESO would dismantle the game's current popularity and success basicly dude!

Iago

maybe you could get somebody in PvP to cut you in half with a battle axe or sword.


Jk

Naguur86

Hmm, if this is about equality then I would suggest that the males get a non removable shirt so it's equal tonfemale characters. Real equality would mean a cropped shirt for males but I'm not sure if that would be a good thing.

PF1901

Deleted my original posting. Never mind

Delte

This discussion is silly. Silly in that its okay to casually kill pixels on screen place people into slavery and kill prisoners of war in ESO, but can't show a womans breast.
Being nude is not a crime whether male or female, society has made people think it is though. Showing nudity has nothing to do with objectification of men or women, and it is solely in the mind of the viewer.

For example if you saw a nude man or woman and got aroused at seeing that person, you are in fact objectifying them in a sexual way. Its human nature and is linked to our desire to reproduce.

Unfortunately some people can't leave these base desires alone and will act upon them and so we have censorship to try and alleviate these problems. Usually this censorship is a one way street and never applies to the male form. I work in a male dominated job and we are not allowed to put up pictures of women in bikinis or semi nude women, yet female staff who work in the same place can put up pictures of half naked men dressed as firemen or soldiers and no one bats an eyelid.

Censorship should be fair and work both ways, but in reality it never does. Because a man showing off his six pack and pecks for the world to see is a show of masculinity (which is sexual to the opposite sex, come on ladies how many times have you looked at the hunks at the beach or in films? ). Yet in a male dominated society showing a womans *** is classed as a sexual act towards men.

Living in a male dominated world is what gives censorship definition, reverse the roles and this would change. We all live in a patriarchal society there is no such thing as a matriarchal society in this world, and so our laws on censorship are based around this simple fact.

AlienSlof

There is something so very wrong and messed up about a society where violence is fine, go ahead, as much as you like, yet showing skin, which is entirely natural, is viewed as wrong, taboo and 'ooh no'.

So very messed up and backwards way round.

Yes, I made many of those nude mods for the other Elder Scrolls games.

Alurria

Laughing and sad all at once, laughing because it's actually a topic of interest. Which tells me a lot about the folks discussing this, and sad that you are not playing the game and having fun. (Shakes head and walks away from this bridge)

Csub

This actually reminds me of The Walking Dead series where all the brutality, face eating, chest ripping, organ devouring etc. stuff you can imagine is shown but not one boobie. Even once when (no spoilers) one of them was captured and questioned and had her topless, they wouldn`t show. Anyway, I am not watching the show in hope for boobies, it`s just an addition to what others said, violence is okay, boobies are not.
Then again, I still don`t mind not being able to see boobies here. Wait for a nudepatch if you want to see them!

Ageless

Oblivion had a locked-out art file or 'skin' that, if accessed through a third party modification to the PC version of the game, allowed the user to play with topless versions of female characters at its original release. It was patched within hours of release, to remove that skin file.

Having said that, seeing how the characters in this game have a 3D head and a 2D body-print, it wouldn't even look good if breasts were enabled.

By the way, for those of you calling Archmage a pervert, there is nothing perverted about (having)(an interest in) breasts, they're just natural.

Archmage

Naguur86 wrote: »

Hmm, if this is about equality then I would suggest that the males get a non removable shirt so it's equal tonfemale characters. Real equality would mean a cropped shirt for males but I'm not sure if that would be a good thing.

That's all I'm talking about. Equality. I didn't ask for more or less, just the same! Thank you!!!

dolmen

I'm all for asking and continuing to ask for modifications, improvements etc. to the game. Keep doing so until ZOS says "No, stop asking." or goes ahead and at least considers the idea.

That said, @Archmage, I don't think this one is going to fly. But that is my opinion. I would suggest though, don't ask for a half measure, ask for full nudity both sexes. However, you do need to consider how such a change would be implemented without offending anyone. I don't think that can be done, which is why I have the opinion that this won't fly.

Xithian

Male: Creates a male character in ESO. Has underwear by default.
Female: Creates a male character in ESO. Has underwear by default.

Male: Creates a female character in ESO. Has underwear and top by default.
Female: Creates a female character in ESO. Has underwear and top by default.


Looks pretty equal to me. Also, I'm pretty sure the males a much more interested in seeing topless female avatars than the females are on average, yet both are equally denied. You are talking about the appearance of an avatar that can be used by anyone of any gender, not any one person's rights. An avatar does not have rights. The player does, and all players are treated equally in this case.

You can complain about the game's portrayal of women all you want (although honestly, ESO is about the least sexist game I've played in memory), but it is not an issue of rights in the way you presented it. You could have simply asked why males do not have an undershirt on by default. What you did instead was intentionally use real world issues to create a spawning ground for argument.

Melian

This is equality: if you can ogle body parts that are considered private in your culture on female characters, I should be able to do the same with male characters.