Heavy armor - passive bonuses need a love

trimsic_ESO

In order to be useful in AvA, the passive bonuses of the heavy armor skill lines need a love. For instance, I would suggest to increase the spell resistance passive bonus, and, as already mentioned for the future of the game, I would suggest to also have a passive skill that increases the ultimate regeneration rate while tanking.

Without a buff to the heavy armor skill tree, tanks in heavy armor will not be as useful as they should be in AvA. Tactically speaking, having real tanks could be a counter-measure to the pulsar-bomber technique currently in place in AvA, providing that they can hold the line and use AOE skills to debuff the enemies. This would add an interesting dimension to the meta game.

alexj4596b14_ESO

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

In order to be useful in AvA, the passive bonuses of the heavy armor skill lines need a love. For instance, I would suggest to increase the spell resistance passive bonus, and, as already mentioned for the future of the game, I would suggest to also have a passive skill that increases the ultimate regeneration rate while tanking.

Without a buff to the heavy armor skill tree, tanks in heavy armor will not be as useful as they should be in AvA. Tactically speaking, having real tanks could be a counter-measure to the pulsar-bomber technique currently in place in AvA, providing that they can hold the line and use AOE skills to debuff the enemies. This would add an interesting dimension to the meta game.

Idk about AvA but I really think there needs too be a passive that would say something like this: increases the amount of players that can use a synergy too 2 per ability used and give ?% damage bounce too synergy damage. Would help the dps issue in lower lvl vet vengeance, also with shield bash being nerfed that added boost would be nice.

The requirement for this would be too have atlest 4 pieces of heavy amour on, that is the only way too make it viable, because as it stands waring all heavy amour is less effective then using a combo of both.

alexj4596b14_ESO

Double posted for some reason

tylarthb16_ESO

heavy is becoming increasingly redundant in the vet lvls when melee is close to suicidal with out full block or chain cc powers. So a buff to passives to make heavy actually help significantly with survival would be nice.

alexj4596b14_ESO

tylarthb16_ESO wrote: »

heavy is becoming increasingly redundant in the vet lvls when melee is close to suicidal with out full block or chain cc powers. So a buff to passives to make heavy actually help significantly with survival would be nice.

If they did a synergy passive for for group play something like the one above, increase over spell resit passive % by like 5% over all, add a small magic regin bounces vary small nothing huge like say 6% max, then add 3% increase over all for health regin. I think we would be fine as heavy amour user's.

If you chose too use heavy amour your going too trade the damage increase from medium and light amours too be more sturdy, then a slightly higher defense should be there but in group situations your going too need a slight higher DPS. The above should fix that problem

chrisub17_ESO104

Heavy armor is pretty bad. For one, armor is just not that strong in this game considering how good block and CC are at avoiding/mitigating damage. And you compare the passives to light, and it's just a no brainer. Heavy does not make any sense.

Just look at the top players in the game. Whether it's soloing group content, mass aoe grinding, or in pvp, they are all using light armor.

So yes I agree the right approach is fix the passives. They need a substantial boost of some type.

trimsic_ESO

The issue with heavy armor lays also in the current game mechanics:
- when we dodge, we need stamina
- when we interrupt, we need stamina
- when we CC break, we need stamina
- at the end, we have a short amount of stamina left for dealing damage with physical weapons
- light armor bonuses are very attractive; the entire skill tree is some sort of all-in-one skill tree

In short, damage dealt with physical weapon is not as attractive as damage dealt with magical skills. And that's a big issue for the game balance, with a negative side effect on the heavy armor utility in AvA.

Indeed, in AvA we barely need an heavy armor because most damage we take is magical damage, and the heavy armor skill tree does not help us much in that domain.

If the magical skills remain too attractive, then a buff to the heavy armor is required as a mean to balance the game in AvA, and as a mean to give the tank builds some sort of utility in a group.

Suggestions:
- Buff the passive skills of the heavy armor skill tree
- Add a 5 pieces of armor requirement to all the armor active skills (such as immovable for the heavy armor), or make the duration / effect of these skills depend on the number of pieces equipped
- Reduce stamina cost of dodge / interrupt
- Make the cc break cost magicka instead of stamina
- Make the 2H and DW skill trees more attractive (cost less stamina, deal more damage)

Kendaric

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

The issue with heavy armor lays also in the current game mechanics:
- when we dodge, we need stamina
- when we interrupt, we need stamina
- when we CC break, we need stamina
- at the end, we have a short amount of stamina left for dealing damage with physical weapons
- light armor bonuses are very attractive; the entire skill tree is some sort of all-in-one skill tree

In short, damage dealt with physical weapon is not as attractive as damage dealt with magical skills. And that's a big issue for the game balance, with a negative side effect on the heavy armor utility in AvA.

Indeed, in AvA we barely need an heavy armor because most damage we take is magical damage, and the heavy armor skill tree does not help us much in that domain.

If the magical skills remain too attractive, then a buff to the heavy armor is required as a mean to balance the game in AvA, and as a mean to give the tank builds some sort of utility in a group.

Suggestions:
- Buff the passive skills of the heavy armor skill tree
- Add a 5 pieces of armor requirement to all the armor active skills (such as immovable for the heavy armor), or make the duration / effect of these skills depend on the number of pieces equipped
- Reduce stamina cost of dodge / interrupt
- Make the cc break cost magicka instead of stamina
- Make the 2H and DW skill trees more attractive (cost less stamina, deal more damage)

This sums up the current issues pretty nicely.

Xarko

Yep, I tank VR dungs in light armor and it works great. There is nothing attractive about heavy armor, addtitonal armor is redundant and passives are crap.

Comaetilico

suggestion:

1) add to medium armor stamina cost reduction (like light armor)
2) move dodge roll cost reduction from medium to heavy... and increase the effeciency...
3) add to heavy armor CC breack cost reduction

the first will be of great help for stamina based DPS (they'r running out of stamina pretty fast making it so that they either fulfill their role of a DPS or save their stamina to dodge/block... )

the other 2 effect will make so that heavy armor user have higer recovery rate from CC... as a tank you don't want to be under the effect of a CC for too long


also fixing the last passive of heavy armor would already help a bit... being able to move at almost normal speed while blocking can turn out pretty usefull in PVE and still a bit useful in PVP... but it actualy doesn't work at all -_-'

Cheatingdeath23

Kendaric wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

The issue with heavy armor lays also in the current game mechanics:
- when we dodge, we need stamina
- when we interrupt, we need stamina
- when we CC break, we need stamina
- at the end, we have a short amount of stamina left for dealing damage with physical weapons
- light armor bonuses are very attractive; the entire skill tree is some sort of all-in-one skill tree

In short, damage dealt with physical weapon is not as attractive as damage dealt with magical skills. And that's a big issue for the game balance, with a negative side effect on the heavy armor utility in AvA.

Indeed, in AvA we barely need an heavy armor because most damage we take is magical damage, and the heavy armor skill tree does not help us much in that domain.

If the magical skills remain too attractive, then a buff to the heavy armor is required as a mean to balance the game in AvA, and as a mean to give the tank builds some sort of utility in a group.

Suggestions:
- Buff the passive skills of the heavy armor skill tree
- Add a 5 pieces of armor requirement to all the armor active skills (such as immovable for the heavy armor), or make the duration / effect of these skills depend on the number of pieces equipped
- Reduce stamina cost of dodge / interrupt
- Make the cc break cost magicka instead of stamina
- Make the 2H and DW skill trees more attractive (cost less stamina, deal more damage)

This sums up the current issues pretty nicely.

Agreed.

I roll with heavy armor because that is how I envision a knight fighting. Yet everything I see says I would be better off with light or medium. (too bad I spent countless points on blacksmithing and countless hours researching)

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Ive not had any problem in PvE with heavy armor bonus'. At 31 Ive got all I can spend points in, and I can stand getting whacked on without hardly any damage, and what damage I get is regened quickly (thanks to passives). So I ask you not to just call for a buff/nerf based on pvp.

Thechemicals

Tanking in clothing...lawls.

If you tank in heavy gear alone and use things like circle of protection or other buff spells...youll notice a singificant difference even with overcharge.

Xarko

Thechemicals wrote: »

Tanking in clothing...lawls.

If you tank in heavy gear alone and use things like circle of protection or other buff spells...youll notice a singificant difference even with overcharge.

and why exactly would I want this "significant dfference" if I can manage no problem in light armor?

+ all I need to turn into dps is to press ~

chrisub17_ESO104

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Ive not had any problem in PvE with heavy armor bonus'. At 31 Ive got all I can spend points in, and I can stand getting whacked on without hardly any damage, and what damage I get is regened quickly (thanks to passives). So I ask you not to just call for a buff/nerf based on pvp.

Level 31. Really???

Still_Mind

I wholeheartedly agree that Heavy armour talents need buffs.

Quite possibly playstyle make-or-break talents, such as flat non-armour based progressive damage reduction as HP decreases (not sure how that would work with vampire skills), critical hit resistance, limited immortality (once per minute, fully mitigate a death blow and gain 2-3 second invulnerability), ability to block unblockables, passively decrease AoE damage taken by a considerable amount..

Something drastic. Something that gives us an actual reason (aesthetics don't count) to use heavy armour in VR content and in PvP.

Cheatingdeath23

Sadly, after discussing it with guildmates and looking over the skill lines, I agree. I spent weeks researching blacksmithing and now think I would be better off in medium armor.

Xarko

You could and you should have been researching heavy and medium/light at the same time ..and Im sure you will be glad you got heavy stuff researched once they buff it.

alexj4596b14_ESO

Kendaric wrote: »

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

The issue with heavy armor lays also in the current game mechanics:
- when we dodge, we need stamina
- when we interrupt, we need stamina
- when we CC break, we need stamina
- at the end, we have a short amount of stamina left for dealing damage with physical weapons
- light armor bonuses are very attractive; the entire skill tree is some sort of all-in-one skill tree

In short, damage dealt with physical weapon is not as attractive as damage dealt with magical skills. And that's a big issue for the game balance, with a negative side effect on the heavy armor utility in AvA.

Indeed, in AvA we barely need an heavy armor because most damage we take is magical damage, and the heavy armor skill tree does not help us much in that domain.

If the magical skills remain too attractive, then a buff to the heavy armor is required as a mean to balance the game in AvA, and as a mean to give the tank builds some sort of utility in a group.

Suggestions:
- Buff the passive skills of the heavy armor skill tree
- Add a 5 pieces of armor requirement to all the armor active skills (such as immovable for the heavy armor), or make the duration / effect of these skills depend on the number of pieces equipped
- Reduce stamina cost of dodge / interrupt
- Make the cc break cost magicka instead of stamina
- Make the 2H and DW skill trees more attractive (cost less stamina, deal more damage)

This sums up the current issues pretty nicely.

i dont agree with the 5 piece requirement, unless they offer a way too reduce magic, and give a larger amount spell resit while in heavy amour, allot of tanks use heavy amour cuz we like its look but need the light amour too have enough magic regin and spell resit too tank in dungeons, i could agree with a 3 piece bounces requirement tho.

Mephiston87

I was just having this exact chat with guild mates yesterday, theyr saying i would be able to tank as a templar much better in light armour and shield using my own magica to constantly heal when its available, and use rings etc to get armr and spell resist downfalls, unfortunately it makes perfect sense. But i wanted a knight in plate, not a piece of clothing protecting me -_-.

Lets face it putting the passives next to eachother light wins by far, medium is still decent not coming too far behind... and waaaaaay back there is heavy armour...

Still_Mind

Mephiston87 wrote: »

Lets face it putting the passives next to eachother light wins by far, medium is still decent not coming too far behind... and waaaaaay back there is heavy armour...

Quite so. Heavy armour looks like it was designed to be the "tank" armour, yet a lot of VR content tanks are, in fact, using medium, or even *light* armour. That speaks volumes.

jesterstear

I'd vote for the incoming heal bonus getting upped a bit. Doesn't eliminate the need for healers, far from it... makes them more valuble too.

bantad87

How about buffing the block trait for the 5 piece; it's already an outstanding bonus, and buffing it more could make it essential for tanking.

Adding a 4 or 5 piece requirement to use immovable would go a long way towards making heavy armor more attractive as well.

Lastly, they should add an armor penetration bonus to the increased power trait in heavy armor.

Bollerlotte

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

The issue with heavy armor lays also in the current game mechanics:
- when we dodge, we need stamina
- when we interrupt, we need stamina
- when we CC break, we need stamina
- at the end, we have a short amount of stamina left for dealing damage with physical weapons
- light armor bonuses are very attractive; the entire skill tree is some sort of all-in-one skill tree

In short, damage dealt with physical weapon is not as attractive as damage dealt with magical skills. And that's a big issue for the game balance, with a negative side effect on the heavy armor utility in AvA.

Indeed, in AvA we barely need an heavy armor because most damage we take is magical damage, and the heavy armor skill tree does not help us much in that domain.

If the magical skills remain too attractive, then a buff to the heavy armor is required as a mean to balance the game in AvA, and as a mean to give the tank builds some sort of utility in a group.

Suggestions:
- Buff the passive skills of the heavy armor skill tree
- Add a 5 pieces of armor requirement to all the armor active skills (such as immovable for the heavy armor), or make the duration / effect of these skills depend on the number of pieces equipped
- Reduce stamina cost of dodge / interrupt
- Make the cc break cost magicka instead of stamina
- Make the 2H and DW skill trees more attractive (cost less stamina, deal more damage)

Agree with that.
Many independent Teso fansites prefer Tank guides/builts with no heavy armor.
Inmoveable at least.
http://www.tesoelite.com/forums/threads/guide-to-templar-tanking-at-veteran-rank-updated-with-alternative-build.3022/
with 7/7 light armor tanking is still viable. even to unexpirienced healers.
And the fact the magicka and other benifits from light armor scale with most desired classskills way more effective then everything else makes any other armor choose a fail from scratch.

i would like to add to:
- Reduce stamina cost of dodge / interrupt
(signifikantly by wearing heavy armor)

furthermore i guess buffing heavy armor is not that easy. makes tanks somewhat independent for teamplay with gamedesign atm. PvE mobs have to hit harder too, but if they are going to hit harder it will be more difficult for casual players to manage.

As a dedicated Tank i wish heavy armor should be a must have for Tanks by design. Not wearing them should be fail and not viable, if top 5% players still manage that im fine with that.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

I actually tried all heavy plus +420 armor enchant on rings . I got like 2200 Armor no buffs but then when i use armor spell because of Cap it didn't go up that much
So i prefer magika and use skills to gain health and armor.
Armor level Cap is the problem here i think all DKs use magika light sets

SexyVette07

As a cloth wearer, im totally behind buffing the heavy armor tree. Its essential. Each armor type needs to have meaningful differences that help it achieve its goal. I also agree with making each tree's active ability scale with the amount of each armor piece.

deathcoyrwb17_ESO

They may also implement "Impenetrable" passive for Heavy Armor. A more extreme buff is making Heavy Armor the only Armor type able to use Impenetrable Trait. Also, does Impenetrable trait work against Wep crit only or both Wep and Spell Crit?

stimpy986b14_ESO

I have a suggestion for the future update for the new HA passive. Instead of just generating Ult, perhaps getting hit could also restore some magicka/stamina based on the type of attack that hit you say 0.5%/1% per piece of heavy armor worn.

Shaun98ca2

I think the problem with Armor passives is making them TOO good like you MUST wear Light Armor to be a caster or you MUST wear Heavy Armor to be a tank.

Cause then that defeats the purpose of certain armor increasing abilities to tank in Light/Medium Armor for those that want to.

Im a healer in Heavy Armor so the passives don't help my casting but they help my survivability. Which is what I need as a healer.

ArRashid

sucky Heavy is why tanks tank in medium or even light and rather take an armor glyph or ability. Sorcs rather waste a slot for Bound Armor rather than lowering themselves to use heavy armor.

Passives are just too weak for tanking, and totally BAD for anything else.
- instead of increasing armor/resist values (which are already capped anyway), make heavy increase block mitigation by a fair amount (that would make it appealing to tanks and survival oriented dps)
- change Juggernaut from 7% melee power to 14% melee power + 14% crit damage (aka swing HARDER, appealing to melee lovers)


Also, increase weapon damage cap.. it's really wrong that you can essentially do 2x more damage while getting to that ridiculously low weapon damage cap with dual wield than when you get there (way faster) with 2h. There should be enough place to stick a legendary 2hander there while still having enough reserves to stick Heavy armor passive and Molten Weapons/Surge bonus

deathcoyrwb17_ESO

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

I think the problem with Armor passives is making them TOO good like you MUST wear Light Armor to be a caster or you MUST wear Heavy Armor to be a tank.

Ironically that is the current problem right now. Light Armor is too good that both Tanks and Non-Tanks must to wear them. Now both Caster and Tank have to be in Light Armor to get optimal performance.

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Im a healer in Heavy Armor so the passives don't help my casting but they help my survivability. Which is what I need as a healer.

No offence but you will have the best survivability in Light Armor rather than Heavy Armor because each class has a Magic Resist/Armor buff(except NB) that can bring you to almost hard cap to all your defenses, even as NB you have access to non-class buffs that have the same effect. Furthermore all these buffs are majority magicka spell cost hence wearing Light Armor not only allows you to have the magicka, cost reduction and regen to spam those buffs for survival(some are even AoE hence your entire party has better survivability) but also to able to dish out stronger heals and enough magicka to keep healing for extended periods. Plus, if you realize, most powerful spells/skills are magicka based that go against Spell Resist and uses Spell Crit hence further increases the importance of Light Armor in both PvE(especially boss fights) and PvP(Class Skills is King). Also, Magic Resist has a way higher cap than Armor therefore the only way to stack/cap it is via Light Armor while Armor can be capped just by wearing Light Armor with buffs.These are the exact reasons why tanks go Light Armor, the extra armor provided by Heavy Armor and also its passives are meaningless when you have continual buffs that will outperform Heavy Armor benefits.

Of course this is in the point of view of players seeking OPTIMAL builds(or Min/Maxing if you will) which is what all of us on this thread is aiming for. Heavy Armor is still effective in all builds and classes so everyone is free to use Heavy Armor if they want.

Just that running with Heavy Armor is never optimal.