Changes to PvP coming soon...

Lord_Draevan

After reading the "Ask Us Anything" session with ZOS on Reddit, I just thought I'd highlight 3 important things in PvP that will be changed. But first I'll link the discussion if you want to see the whole thing:

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/24h8dv/welcome_to_the_zos_aua

Now, to the important PvP changes coming soon!

1) Scroll Carriers will be unable to use Bolt Escape.
ZOS_KONK:
"We are also setting up the Elder Scroll so that Bolt Escape cannot be used by its carrier."

2) Vamps are being nerfed/changed in PvP:
ZOS_KONK:
"Yeah, we are aware of the issues vampires in PvP. One bug fix and two balance changes are in the pipe, and should get to you guys next week. The changes are:
-Fixed the bug where multiple Bat Swarms can be stacked on the same Vampire.
-Reduced the movement speed bonus durring mist form to 30% (which makes it equivalent to the "Boundless storm" morph of Lightning form)
-Reduced the Vampire ability cost reduction to 7% per stage
We'll continue to monitor Vampires in pvp after these changes hit as well."
and...
"Dark talons is currently bugged and can hit more targets than intended. We're also discussing improving players' ability to counter immobilize effects, but I don't have details for you on that just yet."

3) More XP from killing players:
ZOS_BrianWheeler:
"For the first patch we're doubling the amount of XP that players are worth. We will be watching this data closely to see if another increase is necessary."

Other important points brought up were the upcoming introduction of Spellcrafting and Werewolves getting buffed to put them more on par with Vampires, starting with reduced Ultimate cost for transformation.

Sariias

But if they fix vampires too soon that will make all the people who rage quit appear to be immature and impatient!

Lord_Draevan

Sariiasb14_ESO wrote: »

But if they fix vampires too soon that will make all the people who rage quit appear to be immature and impatient!

Perish the thought!

Cydone

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

3) More XP from killing players:
ZOS_BrianWheeler:
"For the first patch we're doubling the amount of XP that players are worth. We will be watching this data closely to see if another increase is necessary."

Still remains that 2 times zero = 0

LadyChaos

Cydone wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

3) More XP from killing players:
ZOS_BrianWheeler:
"For the first patch we're doubling the amount of XP that players are worth. We will be watching this data closely to see if another increase is necessary."

Still remains that 2 times zero = 0

prolly be funny if the value were actually 0... this joke gets old

Cydone

LadyChaos wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

3) More XP from killing players:
ZOS_BrianWheeler:
"For the first patch we're doubling the amount of XP that players are worth. We will be watching this data closely to see if another increase is necessary."

Still remains that 2 times zero = 0

prolly be funny if the value were actually 0... this joke gets old

It's so low, the xp gained from killing a player, that it might as well be zero. Still, even doubling the amount of xp STILL makes it so pvp isn't a viable option to level your character. Unless you're ok with hitting VR10 this time next year.

LadyChaos

Cydone wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

3) More XP from killing players:
ZOS_BrianWheeler:
"For the first patch we're doubling the amount of XP that players are worth. We will be watching this data closely to see if another increase is necessary."

Still remains that 2 times zero = 0

prolly be funny if the value were actually 0... this joke gets old

It's so low, the xp gained from killing a player, that it might as well be zero. Still, even doubling the amount of xp STILL makes it so pvp isn't a viable option to level your character. Unless you're ok with hitting VR10 this time next year.

I wet from vr1 to vr2 exclusively in PvP in 1 week. Half of that being 3.5 days for vr1-vr2... not unrealistic. In a zone that costs nothing to play in it.

You asked for increased, they doubled it and said more tweaking as necessary, and the response is a snide well it's still nothing comment. Never happy...

christianblumbergb16_ESO

-Fixed the bug where multiple Bat Swarms can be stacked on the same Vampire.

Soooo... The stacking is a bug and there are Tons of people out there abusing it.
Let me guess: Even tough exploiting uninteded mechanics/bugs are against the tos we won´t see any bans.

Cydone

LadyChaos wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

3) More XP from killing players:
ZOS_BrianWheeler:
"For the first patch we're doubling the amount of XP that players are worth. We will be watching this data closely to see if another increase is necessary."

Still remains that 2 times zero = 0

prolly be funny if the value were actually 0... this joke gets old

It's so low, the xp gained from killing a player, that it might as well be zero. Still, even doubling the amount of xp STILL makes it so pvp isn't a viable option to level your character. Unless you're ok with hitting VR10 this time next year.

I wet from vr1 to vr2 exclusively in PvP in 1 week. Half of that being 3.5 days for vr1-vr2... not unrealistic. In a zone that costs nothing to play in it.

You asked for increased, they doubled it and said more tweaking as necessary, and the response is a snide well it's still nothing comment. Never happy...

First you say you went from VR1 to 2, exclusively in PvP, in ONE week. Then say and I quote "Half of that being 3.5 days for vr1-vr2". Lolwut?? Which one is it?? A week or 3.5 days?? And, lets be honest here, VR1-2 is the EASIEST one to do. Takes what? 800k? If I am remembering correctly. I did that in less than a day doing PvE. And if your week figure is the correct one, and not the 3.5, then there is a pretty big disparity there.

Then, after you get to VR2, it's 1.2mil xp, VR3=1.6mil xp??, VR4=1.8mil xp, VR5=2.28mil xp. So, even IF your 3.5 day figure is the correct number AND as you say, you pvp pretty much ALL day long. 800k=3.5days of probably around 8hrs a day of pvp? Would that 8hr figure be ABOUT correct?? So, from VR2 to VR3 is 3.5 days(800k xp) + another 400k xp(1.75 days...half of 800k/3.5 days). So, it would take over a week to go from VR1 to VR3, by your numbers. Where it took me 3 days to get that in PvE. AND that's with you having 8 hours(my own estimate based on your previous replies in other threads). So, for someone that can only put maybe 4 hours a day into pvping/leveling their toon, those numbers essentially double.

Can you see a problem here?? I only played around 4 hours a day, doing that PvE and got to VR5 in about 5 days. There is NO way to get the same thing, or anywhere near that, doing JUST PvP. Thus the disparity. And doubling the amount of xp gained, from the pitiful number it was at, is nowhere NEAR enough to make it even close to that of doing PvE.

smercgames_ESO

So the stage reduction is getting nerfed significantly because of a flawed ult reduction stacking system in place? Basically you put out items to lower the ult costs that all stack that a specific set of people are using so instead of fixing the fact that you put out screwed up passives and set bonuses for these specific people you choose to nerf all vampires in general even those not using the flawed mechanics?

Way to over react to the idiocy on the forums of people complaining and having no clue what they are actually complaining about. I guarantee that these same people will find the next ult to abuse and the core of the problem won't be fixed which is the ease of ult reduction. Wouldn't a better change have been to put a cap or a dr on ult gain/reduction instead of singling out the FOTM ult? Or maybe split the stage bonus into magicka reduction and ult reduction and make the ult reduction lower. Drain Essence is pretty worthless in PVP the majority of the time anyways due to it being the only spell with a cooldown (thats shared amongst all players) already AND doesn't work if they are CC immune.

Nothing wrong with the change to mist form, it was kinda silly how fast you go in it, just like Bolt escape. You can gain way to much ground with these skills with no danger to yourself (minus Broken Talons which I see wasn't addressed)

Even if these changes aren't reconsidered I hope you get to the core of the problem and make ultimates actual ultimates and not another spammable skill because people who live to exploit will find the next one within a week.

FearlessOne_2014

smercgames_ESO wrote: »

So the stage reduction is getting nerfed significantly because of a flawed ult reduction stacking system in place? Basically you put out items to lower the ult costs that all stack that a specific set of people are using so instead of fixing the fact that you put out screwed up passives and set bonuses for these specific people you choose to nerf all vampires in general even those not using the flawed mechanics?

Way to over react to the idiocy on the forums of people complaining and having no clue what they are actually complaining about. I guarantee that these same people will find the next ult to abuse and the core of the problem won't be fixed which is the ease of ult reduction. Wouldn't a better change have been to put a cap or a dr on ult gain/reduction instead of singling out the FOTM ult? Or maybe split the stage bonus into magicka reduction and ult reduction and make the ult reduction lower. Drain Essence is pretty worthless in PVP the majority of the time anyways due to it being the only spell with a cooldown (thats shared amongst all players) already AND doesn't work if they are CC immune.

Nothing wrong with the change to mist form, it was kinda silly how fast you go in it, just like Bolt escape. You can gain way to much ground with these skills with no danger to yourself (minus Broken Talons which I see wasn't addressed)

Even if these changes aren't reconsidered I hope you get to the core of the problem and make ultimates actual ultimates and not another spammable skill because people who live to exploit will find the next one within a week.

I hate the fact that game devs always please the QQ'ers of the forums with little to no for-thought on the matter. All I can say as I'm looking at all these threads on the forums about this game being simplified down to WoW standards cause QQ'ers refuse to think about how can they overcome a situation, ZOS yall got me on the thought that this game would be challenging with pure freedom. So much for pure freedom when in 4 to 6 months after listening to forum QQ'ers the only thing that'll work is one build per class. I thought yall would be better then this please again prove me wrong.

Lord_Draevan

In my opinion, the simplest solution to this would be to prevent Ultimate from being gained while an Ultimate is active. That way the ability stays the same in damage, but you can't spam it indefinitely like some people are doing, they'd actually have to put some thought into it! This would also fix the Dragon Standard spamming I've heard about, but have never seen myself.
To quote the phrase I've heard most often in these threads about Swarm spamming, "Your Ultimate should NOT be the most used ability in your rotation."

HazardousNovex

I like most of the things they are changing, but I don't like the fact that they're reducing the speed of mist form and increasing the cost. Please don't bash on me because I'm a vampire and I use vampire skills, I hate the fact that people abuse the vampire skills and I have been lucky enough to not come across anyone abusing the vampire ultimate ability, but I have come across people using mist form to escape battles.

The problem is not with the speed or the way you can spam mist form but rather with the fact that you can't target people while they're in it, it's such a task to kill people who use abuse mist form that it's not really worth the effort. I use mist form personally just to get around the map and I feel like people who don't abuse these skills are being punished for no reason whatsoever. Mist form would have no problem if they just made players currently using it easier to recognise as an enemy and made them targetable, it's not hard to catch up to them, it's the fact that they can stay in it and be able to get away without being hit by single target abilities. I don't see why they're not giving it the same properties as bolt escape and allowing invisible people target-able, instead they are making vampire really un-appealing. I was only using vampire for the sneak speed passive and the mist form movement speed. Before this, vampire was a high risk, but highly rewarding, now vampire is rewarding you a big deal less, but is just as risky. Now it feels like I'm paying a heap of health regeneration and being highly vulnerable to fire for increased sneak movement speed, it is not the most appealing thing and seeing as PvP is basically all I do, the fire vulnerability is quite a big risk.

I don't think the developers have fully thought this through. Instead of reducing the vampire ability costs, they should just put a cap on the amount of ultimate costs you can reduce. One of the selling points for this game for me, was that you could play any way you wanted to.. Now they are just taking that away, I wanted to play a vampire that is quick and stealthy, now I can't be quick and I have to rely on a horse to get around the map. Before this I was struggling to keep up with people on horses and now I will have no chance without a horse. How in any way is this supposed to be 'playing the way I want to play'?

Mordenkaiser

Sariiasb14_ESO wrote: »

But if they fix vampires too soon that will make all the people who rage quit appear to be immature and impatient!

Or...you know....right when they were complaining it was BS.

Sariias

Mordenkaiser wrote: »

Or...you know....right when they were complaining it was BS.

I said nothing about complaining, I spoke of rage quitting. Speaking your mind is different than dropping the game entirely because of one instance of discomfort where the developers didn't cut a wide swath of destruction without thought for the aggrieved, as opposed to being a little patient and allowing the developers to have time to manage the issue with discretion.

Zintair

Not sure why the Vamps are whining. 60% was OP and I am a Vamp.

I will still use Vamp for the passives and deal with the fire damage. I just will prolly avoid Mist Form and Batswarm for better abilities now.

I'm taking 10% magicka stam regen and reduced damage while injured for added fire damage.

Free trade off, I'll just sit in Stage 1.

Still not sure it clarifies the Ult Cost Reduction issue but we will have to see. Regardless PvP will GET BETTER and that is all we can ask even if it is one step at a time.

The sooner the Bat Swarmmer tanks are gone the better. Just usher in the new FOTM OP build.

BTW those complaining about PvP inc exp should chill because it is a good thing.

AshTal

I like the changes but am not sure the nerfs to Vampires go far enough, Guess we will see when they come in but right now a Vampire can take on 20 Vets and Win, will these nerfs mean anyone class has a chance of beating a vampire.

I do hope the people who exploited the stacking of Bat Swarm are banned and/or have their leader board level removed.

Ghenra

Nothing for Bash? omg, I can't belive it.

Reavan

Last night i cornered a v10 swarmer 1v1 and destroyed him.
These nerfs are required and i say that as a vampire.

Alexandrious

smercgames_ESO wrote: »

So the stage reduction is getting nerfed significantly because of a flawed ult reduction stacking system in place? Basically you put out items to lower the ult costs that all stack that a specific set of people are using so instead of fixing the fact that you put out screwed up passives and set bonuses for these specific people you choose to nerf all vampires in general even those not using the flawed mechanics?

Way to over react to the idiocy on the forums of people complaining and having no clue what they are actually complaining about. I guarantee that these same people will find the next ult to abuse and the core of the problem won't be fixed which is the ease of ult reduction. Wouldn't a better change have been to put a cap or a dr on ult gain/reduction instead of singling out the FOTM ult? Or maybe split the stage bonus into magicka reduction and ult reduction and make the ult reduction lower. Drain Essence is pretty worthless in PVP the majority of the time anyways due to it being the only spell with a cooldown (thats shared amongst all players) already AND doesn't work if they are CC immune.

Nothing wrong with the change to mist form, it was kinda silly how fast you go in it, just like Bolt escape. You can gain way to much ground with these skills with no danger to yourself (minus Broken Talons which I see wasn't addressed)

Even if these changes aren't reconsidered I hope you get to the core of the problem and make ultimates actual ultimates and not another spammable skill because people who live to exploit will find the next one within a week.

Deal with it, that nerf to magicka reduction costs is primarily needed on the damn Mist Form ability. Just the other day, I had this little Vamp cheesy idiot, about 3VRs higher than me, constantly mist forming, using a range attack on me, and mist forming again, it went on for about 15 mist forms until I got fed up with it, use a Crit + Mana pot, Taloned her down, Turn Undead and lit her up with fire. She dropped quickly, only reason I didnt do it sooner was because the mist form hit and run thing was just hilarious to watch as I just kept using Rapid regeneration and Green Dragonblood on myself . Pays to be an imperial with 49 in the health stat.

Though tbh, one thing they could friggen do to fix all this, is put a 30 second or longer cooldown on Ultimates, it would solve alot of problems.

TheGrandAlliance

LadyChaos wrote: »

prolly be funny if the value were actually 0... this joke gets old

Its close enough. Me still lvl 30 range thanks to "0" EXP in PvP.

awkwarrd

@Lord_Draevan
Thanx for doing a tl:dr.

Im keen to see these changes happen.
I noticed there was nothing mentioned about many of the broken DK abilities.

Nathan

What if they just add the impossibility for Vampire Ultimate to recharge while in use and a 5 seconds cooldown on Mist form (so you can use it to escape but not to spam it, allowing enemy players to have the time, in case, to target vampire and hit him)?

I think it would be possible to increase points to get Ult ready too, so, even if a Vampire uses it (can't recharge it while he's using it), he needs to wait more to have the Ult ready again.

Nerfing Vampires passive abilities is dangerous, as it risks to make this feature, from OP to pretty useless... They just need balance.

What do you think?

LadyChaos

Cydone wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

3) More XP from killing players:
ZOS_BrianWheeler:
"For the first patch we're doubling the amount of XP that players are worth. We will be watching this data closely to see if another increase is necessary."

Still remains that 2 times zero = 0

prolly be funny if the value were actually 0... this joke gets old

It's so low, the xp gained from killing a player, that it might as well be zero. Still, even doubling the amount of xp STILL makes it so pvp isn't a viable option to level your character. Unless you're ok with hitting VR10 this time next year.

I wet from vr1 to vr2 exclusively in PvP in 1 week. Half of that being 3.5 days for vr1-vr2... not unrealistic. In a zone that costs nothing to play in it.

You asked for increased, they doubled it and said more tweaking as necessary, and the response is a snide well it's still nothing comment. Never happy...

First you say you went from VR1 to 2, exclusively in PvP, in ONE week. Then say and I quote "Half of that being 3.5 days for vr1-vr2". Lolwut?? Which one is it?? A week or 3.5 days??

seriously... math at factor x2 is that elusive?

If it takes a week now (by my example), when you double the xp it takes half the time = 3.5 days.

If I wasn't clear enough in showing my math on how x2 works, fine but man you are just so negative and always looking for a fight it is counterproductive to getting to the bottom of whatever issue is at discussion.

It doesn't matter if v2 is the easiest jump, it doesn't matter how fast it is vs PvE... the point was they doubled it, then said they will continue to tweak it to balance as needed and you made the played out snarky joke of "2x0=0..." when a. it's not 0, and b. they said they would adjust as needed, and c. that joke is lame and wasn't funny the first time someone parroted it it Cyrodiil, it's not clever or funny now.

You got what you asked for... it is boggling there is even a discussion about this, except to point out you get what you ask for and still complain "unfair" even before it's implemented. It kills credibility on the important things that need immediate attention when they give you what you want and you trash it... hence "never happy".

---

I do not just mean this specifically to the quoted, I mean this to all the "give me what I want, NOW" players, then when they do give you the next line "that wasn't enough. I will protest till I get everything on my timescale". MMO, more than just 1 type of players needs involved.

dslendersb16_ESO

Damn, i just got turned into a vampire, because i was looking forward to the sneaking / quick kill play style... that`s why my char is a nightblade / vampire. but nerfing the vampire skills like this, makes it more useless because of the high fire damage and low positive buffs right now...

Phoenix99

dslendersb16_ESO wrote: »

Damn, i just got turned into a vampire, because i was looking forward to the sneaking / quick kill play style... that`s why my char is a nightblade / vampire. but nerfing the vampire skills like this, makes it more useless because of the high fire damage and low positive buffs right now...

I laughed... good comedy.... really

Gisgo

dslendersb16_ESO wrote: »

Damn, i just got turned into a vampire, because i was looking forward to the sneaking / quick kill play style... that`s why my char is a nightblade / vampire. but nerfing the vampire skills like this, makes it more useless because of the high fire damage and low positive buffs right now...

Get cured.
/thread

Bramir

I'm happy to see the devs are trying to fix the problem. I'm not so sure many people rage quit the game because of OP vamps...I think a lot (like myself) just decided they weren't going to worry much about pvp until it started getting fixed.

Maybe as punishment for exploiting this, they can make certain vampires sparkle...

Oblongship

dslendersb16_ESO wrote: »

Damn, i just got turned into a vampire, because i was looking forward to the sneaking / quick kill play style... that`s why my char is a nightblade / vampire. but nerfing the vampire skills like this, makes it more useless because of the high fire damage and low positive buffs right now...

Your tears taste amazing....

Please continue to cry vamp...

dslendersb16_ESO

Gisgo wrote: »

dslendersb16_ESO wrote: »

Damn, i just got turned into a vampire, because i was looking forward to the sneaking / quick kill play style... that`s why my char is a nightblade / vampire. but nerfing the vampire skills like this, makes it more useless because of the high fire damage and low positive buffs right now...

Get cured.
/thread

Still think the vampire play style suits what i want. I Don`t want it to be overpowered either, don`t get me wrong. But it wouldn`t be nice if it was underpowered either...

Oblongship

dslendersb16_ESO wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

dslendersb16_ESO wrote: »

Damn, i just got turned into a vampire, because i was looking forward to the sneaking / quick kill play style... that`s why my char is a nightblade / vampire. but nerfing the vampire skills like this, makes it more useless because of the high fire damage and low positive buffs right now...

Get cured.
/thread

Still think the vampire play style suits what i want. I Don`t want it to be overpowered either, don`t get me wrong. But it wouldn`t be nice if it was underpowered either...

Wont be under powered.

Cry away...I have been waiting for this day!