ZoS Nerfs Vampires GG

MeIkor

Well with the newest AMA seems like they are nerfing Vampires into the ground. And still see no fix for cost reduction reset bug and Poison Mist not working right.
-Vampire Batswarm can only be used one at a time per vampire
-Elusive Mist speed reduced to 30% to be in line with Boundless Storm
-Vampire Stage cost reduction reduced to 7% per level
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/24h8dv/welcome_to_the_zos_aua/ch763lm?context=3

So instead of fixing the DK ult gain with Dark Talons and a few other of their skills like battle roar, inhale, Dragon Blood they nerf vampires making being one not worth the downsides. GG ZoS

Mist form is near useless now. With the vampire cost reduction nerf it will be so expensive to cast, plus speed reduction, and I can't attack while it's active. Mind as well just use bolt escape or boundless storm now.

Vampire Cost reduction nerf is dumb it makes all our abilites cost a lot since they were designed with vamp stage 4 cost in mine. Mist form normal cost 500+ so with new cost reduction it still will be expensive even at stage 4. They should of fixed the way Ult reduction works. It should not work additive. 60% plus 20% + 15% should not equal 95% off orignal price. the cost should be applied after each reduction.

With the negatives still being the same and these huge nerfs it almost make it not worth keeping the skill line. GG to all the cry babies, and to ZoS always over reacting and nerfing skill line to ground like WW. Fix DKs don't destroy our skills.

tengri

V are overpowered and of course they are exploiting the hell out of it while it lasts.
What did you expect? Do be allowed to continue forever?
Anyone not seen something like this coming is... well... stupid.

And may I add this before all the now vampire crybabies start rolling in: L2P and adapt to your new class changes.
Sucks to be suddenly on the other end, doesn't it?

Anzaman

I was shocked when I saw the stage cost reduction change.

Hopefully they will not release this to live realm.

Laura

vampire isn't a class its something you can get rid of. I think its supposed to be more for flavor anyway (honestly the ups are better in this game than in other elder scrolls which is strange unless you include LOLVAMPIRELORD)

I do think the cost reduction is odd but other than that this seems kosher. I am tired of feeling like I NEED TO BE a vampire. I wanted to be a werewolf but vampire was just too good.

You shouldn't feel llike you NEED to be a vampire.

Dita

Welcome to the werewolf's world, vampires ! Now you can suffer with us !

WraithAzraiel

Nah, wolves have it WAY worse - they don't even get passives that are applicable in humanoid form.

I've been vamp since early access and I had no clue the skills were so broken - then again I've yet to try to PvP at all.

Though I will say, it's pretty hysterical watching the evolution of chat go from:
"Vampz lul yer gonna git destroyed in PvP - FIRE + SILVER BOLTS FTW suck it nub!"
to
"OMG STOP VAMPIRING, NERF THEM IMMEDIATELY THEY EAT ENTIRE BATTLEFIEDS! HAXXXXORS!

Suffice it to say I think the former ate their words once people figured out how to use vampire to their advantage

ScardyFox

MeIkor wrote: »

GG to all the cry babies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FopyRHHlt3M

Give me a break...

driosketch

They're also looking at dak talons.

Some good news on the WW front, they are also looking to buff the skill like including reducing the cost of the ult.

ChairGraveyard

We all agree that *BAT SWARM* and related ultimate cost reduction needed a nerf.

What the knee jerk hate responses above fail to realize is that the current vampire nerfs mostly nerf the regular two abilities, and leave Bat Swarm *almost entirely untouched*.

Nor do they address other classes spamming ultimates, at all.

So I ask you, haters and knee-jerkers, to actually read these posts and realize NONE of the people here want the OP Bat Swarm stuff.

The problem is that the above nerfs barely nerf Bat Swarm, and instead nerf the two vamp abilities that basically no one gave a crap about *anyway*.

To conclude, do any of you think that 28% reduction in costs is worth -75% health regen? I don't (and again, this has jack to do with Bat Swarm - which everyone agrees is totally broken).

Dita wrote: »

Welcome to the werewolf's world, vampires ! Now you can suffer with us !

Nope! Same patch that nerfs Drain Essence and Mist Form (and barely nerfs Bat Swarm - WTHeck) also buffs werewolves (much needed - and I don't even have a ww chara).

Necro

So this is completely ok to the OP then? You have an odd sense of balance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucmjldufa6U

Nox_Aeterna

And while they do that , DKs keep running around being godly , being or not vampire.

So , i wonder when they will finally get to nerfing that class , cause i usually dont even see balance issues , but they sure made it hard to miss this one.

ChairGraveyard

Necro wrote: »

So this is completely ok to the OP then? You have an odd sense of balance.

All this does is make it appear you're unable to read.

Learn to read. He's talking about the fact that the nerf does not address Bat Swarm (which your knee-jerk whine post is about) and instead nerfs the abilities no one had a problem with.

Learn to read please, before posting dumb, ignorant things.

Maybe it needs spelled out more obviously for the knee-jerker whines here, because

THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS ABOUT HOW THE NERF TO VAMPIRES DOES NOT FIX BAT SWARM BUT INSTEAD NERFS DRAIN AND MISTFORM!

I'm not sure how it could be any dang clearer to the knee-jerk whiners.

Hodorius

Stage four was supposed to be a bad thing...
Not the stage you want to be in.

It had to be changed... beeing hungry is not what a lore friendly vamp wants to be.

I would liked it better if they would have added a fifth stage... the one you were starved beeing useless.

It would have forced players to drink blood.

MeIkor

Necro wrote: »

So this is completely ok to the OP then? You have an odd sense of balance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucmjldufa6U

If you read my comment completely I never stayed the bat swarm spam is what I wanted. But they went around fixing it all wrong. The need to reduction affects all our skills. Right now drain essence and mist form magicka cost are based on that stage 4 would reduce 60% of it. With this new nerf to reduction 28% that will barely make a dent in the 500+ magicka cost. I could cast that 3 times and that's with magicka heavy build. Plus they are not reducing the negatives to balance this nerf.
So now I'm taking 50% fire damage and 75% reduction to health for less cost reduction which is unfair. Not to entice nerf to bat swarm is minor. I can still get my cost to around 65 with passive and set bonus. Not too much for a DK who can already gain ultimate fast. So this really only hurts non DK vamps and their 2 abilities. Why use mist form when it cost x2 as much as boundless storm or bolt escape and I can use abilities at same time.

ChairGraveyard

Edit: @Hodorius - Learn to read. This isn't about bat swarm. It's about the other abilities.

Bat swarm was not NERFED ENOUGH. The other abilities were NERFED TOO MUCH.

This isn't rocket science. It's amazing how you people need the same thing spelled out for you dozens of times, and keep posting irrelevant nonsense in a thread about a legit issue.

Pretty amusing that OP and the people here who actually read the posts are against Bat Swarm being overpowered, yet the knee-jerk whiners will just continue to post nonsense about us complaining about Bat Swarm's nerf (which no one is doing - hurr durr), instead of actually... I dunno, reading the thread (OMG WOW IMAGINE THAT).

Oh well, I guess Bat Swarm and Standard will continue to be abused until the whining knee-jerkers finally realize we're trying to help the game and point out balance issues - namely that the current intended vampire nerf doesn't address Bat Swarm properly/nerf it *enough*, but overnerfs the other abilities in the process.

Maybe someday the knee-jerker whiners will learn to actually read instead of just knee-jerk posting irrelevant crap.

MeIkor

What they should of done is fix how Ultimate reduction works in this game. 60% + 20% + 15% should not equal 95% off original cost.
It should subtract the initial reduction then any subsequent reduction is based off the new cost. So say 20% off 200 would be 40 off making it 160. Then 15% off that would be 136.
That plus nerfing some of the DK ultimate gain and DT spam would prevent bat swarm spam or ult spam in general. Plus help relieve battle roar which gives them all three stats each time ultimate is used.

Phoenix99

Actually it makes them more or less balanced... they will not spam mist form anymore and will have to think about its usage, same with the bat swarm ult.

I like the change. And if you think that -75% HP regen is big, you must hit yourself in the head.... HARD... i would understand if that would be -75% regen AND healing received, then I could agree with the trade off being a bit too big, but -75% passive regen... plz... don't make me laugh.

ChairGraveyard

MeIkor wrote: »

What they should of done is fix how Ultimate reduction works in this game. 60% + 20% + 15% should not equal 95% off original cost.
It should subtract the initial reduction then any subsequent reduction is based off the new cost. So say 20% off 200 would be 40 off making it 160. Then 15% off that would be 136.

Bingo - this is what OP and other non-knee-jerk-whining posts are talking about.

The current change does not fix Bat Swarm abuse, it just makes Drain and Mist Form worse, and AFAIK no one really cares about those.

Amazing to find someone that actually decides to read the thread instead of claiming everyone in here is complaining about Bat Swarm being nerfed (which no one is doing).

MeIkor

Let me guess you're not a vampire and was upset because you went up against a DK vamp abusing abilities? Mist form you cannot do anything but move. And cannot heal through it. With nerf to speed and cost why jot just use boundless storm or bolt escape. Nerf to cost makes bat swarm only a little harder to cast. I can still get it to 66 and for DK that gains ultimate quickly not much issue.

ChairGraveyard

MeIkor wrote: »

Let me guess you're not a vampire and was upset because you went up against a DK vamp abusing abilities? Mist form you cannot do anything but move. And cannot heal through it. With nerf to speed and cost why jot just use boundless storm or bolt escape. Nerf to cost makes bat swarm only a little harder to cast. I can still get it to 66 and for DK that gains ultimate quickly not much issue.

Erm, who are you talking to? I was agreeing with you dude. (Edit - I see your reply got sandwiched between mine and Hodorious, who I was replying to in my last reply)

This entire thread I've been pointing out both how stupid the knee-jerk accusation posts are "Oh OP so you just wanna abuse bat swarm huh!?" despite this entire thread being about the other abilities (drain and mistform) getting an unnecessary nerf.

And for the record, my bat swarm is vanilla, I'm not high enough to abuse it at all, and I don't care about it anyway.

But I do use Drain and Mistform in PvE quite a lot, and the current nerfs are unnecessary.

Meanwhile, Bat Swarm is not fixed properly. Yet we get people coming in here and accusing us of complaining about Bat Swarm being nerfed (I'm not, OP's not, no one is).

Sometimes I hate this forum.

Zershar_Vemod

Why do they keep listening to the crybabies?

Is it that hard to l2p and to maybe look into the issues with not being vampire, but certain classes like DK, armor sets, etc. that give ult cost reductions....but nah, lets just nerf everything.

So PvP leveling is dead, Vamps getting nerfed (even though they have been broken and not getting the stats they are supposed to be getting). We might as well just have a difficulty slider and hold everyone's hand, get rid of death and just have a stunned "faint" effect for X time so that people won't feel sad about their poor skills.

MeIkor

I still have not seen them mention about fix for stage cost reduction reseting upon logging or zoning
And someone just stated about poison mist bug and they said they will look into it after people have been bug reporting it since December.

Lickyo

mist form nerf is ridiculous

ChampionSheWolf

I love all these posts from the vamp players who were so over use to their god mode and of course finger pointing at DKs as if they were some how solely responsible, but outside of the talons for AE rooting, every other skill people blindly call a DK skill is a skill they can pick up themselves.

I am sorry, you think Vamp was OK as it was. Evidently it wasn't, and while people say it's a knee jerk reaction I am pretty sure the devs can see the metrics for themselves. You know, the data you think doesn't exist and this is just a reaction to whining. If it was a knee jerk reaction the balancing would have happened a heck of a lot sooner.

ErilAq

I don't like vampires, or at least their ability to misuse the ult, but I have to agree, this nerf bat hit hard. the ability reduction is too severe. The mist speed reduction would be ok if it cost less, I think all escape abilities should be same cost and "speed". Instead of surgically removing a cyst they cut off an appendage. Again, this is from someone who has been calling for a Vampire ult nerf.

ChampionSheWolf

ErilAq wrote: »

I don't like vampires, or at least their ability to misuse the ult, but I have to agree, this nerf bat hit hard. the ability reduction is too severe. The mist speed reduction would be ok if it cost less, I think all escape abilities should be same cost and "speed". Instead of surgically removing a cyst they cut off an appendage. Again, this is from someone who has been calling for a Vampire ult nerf.

maybe if mist form didn't grant one of the biggest resistance buffs in the game.

Zershar_Vemod

cbrown15_ESO wrote: »

I love all these posts from the vamp players who were so over use to their god mode and of course finger pointing at DKs as if they were some how solely responsible, but outside of the talons for AE rooting, every other skill people blindly call a DK skill is a skill they can pick up themselves.

I am sorry, you think Vamp was OK as it was. Evidently it wasn't, and while people say it's a knee jerk reaction I am pretty sure the devs can see the metrics for themselves. You know, the data you think doesn't exist and this is just a reaction to whining. If it was a knee jerk reaction the balancing would have happened a heck of a lot sooner.

I have never experienced any "god mode" on my main. Maybe you are referring to the emperor bonus vids, or the DK or Sorc class bonuses which allowed almost instant spamming? Because I can tell you, that has never been the case on my NB.

ChairGraveyard

cbrown15_ESO wrote: »

I love all these posts from the vamp players who were so over use to their god mode and of course finger pointing at DKs as if they were some how solely responsible, but outside of the talons for AE rooting, every other skill people blindly call a DK skill is a skill they can pick up themselves.

I am sorry, you think Vamp was OK as it was. Evidently it wasn't, and while people say it's a knee jerk reaction I am pretty sure the devs can see the metrics for themselves. You know, the data you think doesn't exist and this is just a reaction to whining. If it was a knee jerk reaction the balancing would have happened a heck of a lot sooner.

Really? Really?

You have like, 3 different bolded posts pointing out that no one in this thread is complaining about Bat Swarm's nerf, and you post this garbage?

Can you even read? Seriously. That's not a joke.

Are you capable of reading? Because your post suggests you aren't.

ChampionSheWolf

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Really? Really?

You have like, 3 different bolded posts pointing out that no one in this thread is complaining about Bat Swarm's nerf, and you post this garbage?

Can you even read? Seriously. That's not a joke.

Are you capable of reading? Because your post suggests you aren't.

Actually I am reading and quite a few are complaining. You really think that mist form with increased speed and having 75% resist is balanced? You really think the rest is an over nerf? Oh come off it. Bat Swarm was just the most prolific of the problems with vampires.

I am sorry you think it's all fine, but it wasn't. Again bat swarm was just the most prolific of the brokeness. So quit hiding behind some false sense of injustice, because even without bat swarm, if nothing else changed, vampire would still be the crem-de-la-crem of PvP just because it has so much utility for cheap and synergises too well. Are you really going to sit there and say bat swarm was the only thing that made vampire too strong?

BrassRazoo

Excellent news.
I hope to see this implemented live as soon as possible.

alexion891ub17_ESO

Can half of you people even read?
Pretty sure the entire point of this thread is that they over nerfed mist and drain and barely touched bat swarm which btw will still wreck unorganized zergs if they are a DK (sorcs do not have the tankiness to that). So in other words, ZOS actually manged to nerf vampires, without actually addressing the real issue, ult cost reduction and several other DK abilities. Hell DKs is what got werewolves nerfed, that should have sent red flags ages ago.