ZoS Nerfs Vampires GG

MeIkor

cbrown15_ESO wrote: »

I love all these posts from the vamp players who were so over use to their god mode and of course finger pointing at DKs as if they were some how solely responsible, but outside of the talons for AE rooting, every other skill people blindly call a DK skill is a skill they can pick up themselves.

I am sorry, you think Vamp was OK as it was. Evidently it wasn't, and while people say it's a knee jerk reaction I am pretty sure the devs can see the metrics for themselves. You know, the data you think doesn't exist and this is just a reaction to whining. If it was a knee jerk reaction the balancing would have happened a heck of a lot sooner.

Obviously you don't know much about vampires or what I was stating in the original and was just going along with the masses for vamp nerfs. Most of the issue was with Emperor and Vamp DKs. Both has an insane ultimate gain that allowed them to spam Bat Swarm and in addition had passive that made it worse to kill them. DKs had inhale, battle roar that allowed them regain all 3 pools, green dragon blood, and ability the gave them mitigation for people in vicinity. This made them hard to kill. All this nerf really did was make our other 2 abilities cost a lot more while still retaining negatives. But with their ultimate gain ability they will still be able to use their ultimate pretty often with seducer and dragon guard.

Also, while yes we get a lot of reduction with mist form we can't be healed or do anything besides move. So basically all it is an escape move or delay the inevitable, or if used right reduce a projectile damage. There was no need for cost increase and speed decrease.

Like I said earlier all of this BS could of been avoided by fixing how ultimate cost reduction works and fixing amount of people DK can hit to limit the ultimate gain.

ChampionSheWolf

alexion891ub17_ESO wrote: »

Can half of you people even read?
Pretty sure the entire point of this thread is that they over nerfed mist and drain and barely touched bat swarm which btw will still wreck unorganized zergs if they are a DK (sorcs do not have the tankiness to that). So in other words, ZOS actually manged to nerf vampires, without actually addressing the real issue, ult cost reduction and several other DK abilities. Hell DKs is what got werewolves nerfed, that should have sent red flags ages ago.

This is wrong on so many levels. Everyone can have the tankiness of a DK. Absorb magic is a sword board skill line. Immovable is a heavy armor skill line. The only thing I might give you is their ability with using ultimates that gives them health, magicka, and stamina back, but after the swarm nerf, that pretty much ends that, and other skill lines, like the nightblade, would be more than capable of that.

And you can't say with a straight face that the speed faster as fast as a mounted character, with 75% resistance is even remotely balanced, especially for as cheap as it is.

And really a 60% magicka decrease by being hungry instead of an increase? Really? Come off it.

Melkor wrote:

Obviously you don't know much about vampires or what I was stating in the original and was just going along with the masses for vamp nerfs.

Seems you know even less than you claim about vampirism, especially since you seem to underplay everything else. Why does a vampire get stronger from being hungry, you would think the exact opposite would occur. But hey, keep underplaying it and just blaming batswarm and DKs as if DKs were the only ones demosntrating how OP the skill line was. Hell one of the latest videos was a sorcerer, and I am sure if people bothered they could do the same with a temp or a ngihtblade.

MeIkor

cbrown15_ESO wrote: »

alexion891ub17_ESO wrote: »

Can half of you people even read?
Pretty sure the entire point of this thread is that they over nerfed mist and drain and barely touched bat swarm which btw will still wreck unorganized zergs if they are a DK (sorcs do not have the tankiness to that). So in other words, ZOS actually manged to nerf vampires, without actually addressing the real issue, ult cost reduction and several other DK abilities. Hell DKs is what got werewolves nerfed, that should have sent red flags ages ago.

This is wrong on so many levels. Everyone can have the tankiness of a DK. Absorb magic is a sword board skill line. Immovable is a heavy armor skill line. The only thing I might give you is their ability with using ultimates that gives them health, magicka, and stamina back, but after the swarm nerf, that pretty much ends that, and other skill lines, like the nightblade, would be more than capable of that.

And you can't say with a straight face that the speed faster as fast as a mounted character, with 75% resistance is even remotely balanced, especially for as cheap as it is.

And really a 60% magicka decrease by being hungry instead of an increase? Really? Come off it.

Melkor wrote:

Obviously you don't know much about vampires or what I was stating in the original and was just going along with the masses for vamp nerfs.

Seems you know even less than you claim about vampirism, especially since you seem to underplay everything else. Why does a vampire get stronger from being hungry, you would think the exact opposite would occur. But hey, keep underplaying it and just blaming batswarm and DKs as if DKs were the only ones demosntrating how OP the skill line was. Hell one of the latest videos was a sorcerer, and I am sure if people bothered they could do the same with a temp or a ngihtblade.

Now I know you're just ignorant player. There is no way a NB or Templar can do any of the things you are describing. Go look it up or ask, no one was complaining about the other 2.
And if you bothered to read the lore behind vampires you'd know why they have stronger abilities if they don't feed. When they feed it helps them blend in with mortals and they are healthier. As they don't feed their apparent affliction becomes apparent and they get physically weaker hence the 75% health regeneration reduction. But this causes them to become more aggressive and desperate making their abilities more powerful. It's like the analogy of a cornered rat that will attack a cat when it becomes desperate.
Also again since you like to drone on about bat swarm and mist form.
Mist form while giving you resistance allows you to do nothing else. Mainly used for escape. With this nerf it will cost a lot more while having less of a benefit. At least with bolt escape and boundless storm I can get away while still attacking or healing.
Please stop blindly arguing just because either you had a bad experience with a vampire abusing abilities or just going with others who complain.

ChairGraveyard

cbrown15_ESO wrote: »

I am sorry you think it's all fine, but it wasn't.

Thanks for confirming our suspicions that you literally cannot read at even a basic level whatsoever.

It's just a shame the ignore feature isn't in so we could cut down on the irrelevant troll posts from illiterates.

Stravokov

they nerfed the only two active skills we have... skills that have nothing to do with the abuse we were seeing with Bat Swarm. the Bat Swarm problem will continue to exist because the real issue was not fixed, that being Ultimate Generation with certain classes or skill line passives.

instead they listen to the people crying on the forums who dont even play a Vampire or know what they are talking about.

i am more worried that Zenimax is making changes by listening to the forum rats rather than looking at the actual Data. i think after these latest upcoming change, it is clear they didn't do their homework and are purely listening to the cry babies on the forums.

really sad and disappointing. makes you wonder what the future holds for this game...

Anzaman

I was about to become Vampire this evening again.

But guess I'll just stay as human then, since Zenimax apparently can't figure out what was wrong and how it should have been handled. Quite sad actually, especially since over half of the videos linked here crying about Vampire (ultimate) was Ultimate reduction "abusers" and Emperors.

Phoenix99

The changes are fine. People are just used to be able to spam their abilities, especially the mist form. Again, I repeat, now you will have to think about using the ability, and you will not be able to spam it.

The mist form is what was making DK combo broken, as it was giving them super mobility with little to no risk, so then they could talon people, slow and use bat swarm. Pure DK builds with only the standard are not that good, unless you fight in tight places, but then it can also work to their disadvantage once you drop a null field, or just wait their ult out. In an open field they are easily kited.

There are two more things that ZoS needs to address in general:

1) Increase the cost of bolt escape and disable the use of it if you are immobilized

2) if you deal any dmg to enemy while invisible, then you break invisibility

Then if they also fix WW and reduce the cost of WWs ult, plus fix the bugs on Vampire skill line, the PvP will only gain on that. It's meant to be a team game, and not a 1 vs a group lolBennyHill show.

Semel

Increase the cost of bolt escape

Are you r8tarded?
Bolt Escape cost is already high and what's more every time you cast it your regeneration stops completely for 5 seconds.

Let me break it down for ya lot crying nerf nerf.

Cost reduction:

- 7 pieces of light armor:21%
- sorcerer's passive: 5%
- seducre's set: 3%

Total cost reduction: 29%.

Mostly with the loss of having a good armor rating. When you have all 7

pieces equipped your armor rating is crap.

At vr4 sorcerer with ~ 30% cost reduction uses ALL magicka to cast

7 bolt escapes one by one.

After EVERY cast magicka REGENERATION COMPLETELY STOPS for 5

seconds.

ChairGraveyard

Pretty amusing seeing all the "THIS CHANGE R FYNE" by people that don't seem to get that the nerf doesn't actually fix Bat Swarm spamming, as people in this thread have been patiently explaining to the dullards that reply and can't seem to read or comprehend basic English.

Phoenix99

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Pretty amusing seeing all the "THIS CHANGE R FYNE" by people that don't seem to get that the nerf doesn't actually fix Bat Swarm spamming, as people in this thread have been patiently explaining to the dullards that reply and can't seem to read or comprehend basic English.

How does it not fix it, if you cannot stack it, and the cost reduction got changed to max 28% plus items? it also fixes the broken synergy of cheap mist form and the ult, since you cannot run around in mist form while it's active.

And as for the guy saying that bolt escape is fine in cost... once you get to VR level and get some decent gear it's spammable. Did you see in this video how the vampire was chasing a bolting sorc?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YxBlMayv12M

If the super high mobility guy like vampire with retreating maneuver has problems with catching up a sorc, then think of other classes who have no means of catching up a sorc. bolt escape is a very strong repositioning skill, which has no counter. If you disable it while immobilized, then maybe the cost increase will not be required, but currently you cannot lock down a good sorc.

ChairGraveyard

Phoenix99 wrote: »

and the cost reduction got changed to max 28% plus items?

No, it wasn't. The vampire passive reduction was changed to cap at 28% instead of 60%. There is no 28% reduction cap including items at all. No idea where you got that wrong info, as it wasn't stated in the actual comment about the vampire nerfs.

Thus it doesn't fix the problem.

This is not rocket science, it's pretty dang basic to understand. Read. Comprehend.

Try it some time instead of kneejerking about stuff you don't seem to grasp.

Phoenix99

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Phoenix99 wrote: »

and the cost reduction got changed to max 28% plus items?

Because 28% is the reduction ONLY FROM VAMPIRE PASSIVES. Not items. There is no cap for reduction from items.

Thus it doesn't fix the problem.

This is not rocket science, it's pretty dang basic to understand. Read. Comprehend.

Try it some time instead of kneejerking about stuff you don't seem to grasp.

*sigh* you seem to be focused on only one thing,, bat swarm cost reduction. You need to realize that it was also possible to pull off becasue of the super strong mist form. With the cost raised on mist for, and dmg reduction lowered, the synergy will not be AS strong, with the exception of the sorc class, which can just use bolt escape instead of mist and go invis, while still doing dmg. These two things are synergy problems on the sorc side and can be easily fixed by the things i posted earlier...

Think a bit outside of the tunnel vision approach of one skill only and look at the real issue, which are synergies of certain skills. Bat swarm alone without super high mobility with low to no risk is not that strong. By nerfing also the mist form they fix this for classes like DK and Templar, the synergy with Sorc still remains strong, but it's now a problem of the sorc side of the skill set.

Zargorius

Finally the Vampire CHEATERS are delt with. So funny to see the Vampire CHEATERS complaining now that they can't pwn the map anymore with their mad skillz.

Crescent

Phoenix99 wrote: »

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Pretty amusing seeing all the "THIS CHANGE R FYNE" by people that don't seem to get that the nerf doesn't actually fix Bat Swarm spamming, as people in this thread have been patiently explaining to the dullards that reply and can't seem to read or comprehend basic English.

How does it not fix it, if you cannot stack it, and the cost reduction got changed to max 28% plus items? it also fixes the broken synergy of cheap mist form and the ult, since you cannot run around in mist form while it's active.

And as for the guy saying that bolt escape is fine in cost... once you get to VR level and get some decent gear it's spammable. Did you see in this video how the vampire was chasing a bolting sorc?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YxBlMayv12M

If the super high mobility guy like vampire with retreating maneuver has problems with catching up a sorc, then think of other classes who have no means of catching up a sorc. bolt escape is a very strong repositioning skill, which has no counter. If you disable it while immobilized, then maybe the cost increase will not be required, but currently you cannot lock down a good sorc.

How horrible, a guy running away, doing nothing himself in the process, and the dolts who chase a single guy for minutes instead of doing something productive.

Phoenix99

Crescent wrote: »

How horrible, a guy running away, doing nothing himself in the process, and the dolts who chase a single guy for minutes instead of doing something productive.

yeah, because you can't ignore sorc, or you will eat a lot of dmg, but you also can't chase and kill him, because there is almost no counter to that and you will see hw well sorc skillset will continue to synergize with bat swarm if you will leave the bolt escape unchanged.

Pro tip - check the builds with sorc, that use bolt escape and invis with bat swarm.

Gisgo

Crescent wrote: »

How horrible, a guy running away, doing nothing himself in the process, and the dolts who chase a single guy for minutes instead of doing something productive.

Whatever you say, giving high mobility and high aoe damage and high survavibility to the same class is a mistake, plain and simple, from a game design persective.

Wtf is the point of stealthing behind enemy lines if theres a class that does more damage than you and can get in and out of a battle better than you?

Kangas

Pts is not final.
But it is obvious to everyone there were way more upsides than downsides.

That is not healthy for a game when everyone must be a Vamp to be competitive.

As for overnerf. No I am not worried. It will balance out. Players will adjust. And maybe some will actually do better without vamp.

Crescent

Gisgo wrote: »

Crescent wrote: »

How horrible, a guy running away, doing nothing himself in the process, and the dolts who chase a single guy for minutes instead of doing something productive.

Whatever you say, giving high mobility and high aoe damage and high survavibility to the same class is a mistake, plain and simple, from a game design persective.

Wtf is the point of stealthing behind enemy lines if theres a class that does more damage than you and can get in and out of a battle better than you?

If he's spamming bolt escape he can't spam AoE.

The skill only works for 1v1, which I heavily suspect is what the whine is about. Because vamp swarm/mist form and bolt escape are not even on the same league.

Bolt escape is all the survival a sorc has. He doesn't have a button he can press to instantly reciver 40% of his health and then regen another good bit of it, he doesn't have the opening burst of a nightblade from stealth.

So when sorc gets on demand healing that is not a 4 second channel self stun that wipes out your dodge roll/block bar, you can talk about nerfing bolt escape.

In group play bolt escape is virtually a non-factor. It kills no one, and a single sorc running away while his team got decimated is just as much defeat. Doing things solo, he's virtually contributing nothing to the alliance effort unless some *** decide to waste their time chasing him.

And bolt escape spam is only happening with light armor stacking, cost reduction jewelry. Good job on wanting to nerf the skill for plate and leather melee sorcs though, clearly melee sorcs are overpowered and oh so plentiful.

Instead of having a brain and asking that the mana regen bonuses from light armor be looked at instead.

Brittany_Joy

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

MeIkor wrote: »

Now I know you're just ignorant player. There is no way a NB or Templar can do any of the things you are describing. Go look it up or ask, no one was complaining about the other 2.
And if you bothered to read the lore behind vampires you'd know why they have stronger abilities if they don't feed. When they feed it helps them blend in with mortals and they are healthier. As they don't feed their apparent affliction becomes apparent and they get physically weaker hence the 75% health regeneration reduction. But this causes them to become more aggressive and desperate making their abilities more powerful. It's like the analogy of a cornered rat that will attack a cat when it becomes desperate.
Also again since you like to drone on about bat swarm and mist form.
Mist form while giving you resistance allows you to do nothing else. Mainly used for escape. With this nerf it will cost a lot more while having less of a benefit. At least with bolt escape and boundless storm I can get away while still attacking or healing.
Please stop blindly arguing just because either you had a bad experience with a vampire abusing abilities or just going with others who complain.

Might as well just give it up @Melkor - these guys don't want to read anything, and will just continue trolling illiterately.

The fact is, both of us and other people who have a brain realized easily that this change doesn't fix Bat Swarm spamming - and that's a problem.

And then it erroneously nerfs abilities no one was complaining about and are an integral part of the skill line.

Yet the illiterates come in here and straw man it up, accusing us of complaining about the Bat Swarm nerf - a nerf we find inadequate to fix the problem with Bat Swarm which fact obviously and wholly invalidates their trollish "arguments".

Can you read? 'cause it seems like you can't read ZoS's Community Rules which prohibit abusive language and Naming & Shaming. There is no need for all the hostile responses just from a vampire nerf.

Batswarm and Mist Form both deserved the nerf because they are overpowered. No ability should grant you more speed than the fastest horse, give you immunity to attacks and recieve 75% damage reduction because it is simply OP. They nerfed Batswarm too so you couldnt overlap ultimates and reduced the cost reduction given from vampire stage 4, these nerfs are needed. You are not nerfed to the ground instead you are nerfed enough to give other players a fighting chance.

Dragonknights are not OP because I can simply dodge out of their roots and avoid their stationary, bursty, AoE-y damage. However, a vampire is OP because they can burst, avoid tons of damage, and escape. While a dragonknight has stationary burst, can only recover from loss of HP, and does not have any escape abilites. Vampires are OP because they are the jack of all trades without any negative impacts and they can not be killed easily.

ZOS_JordanH

Greetings. This thread has been closed as it has devolved into arguing. In the future, please keep all debate/discussion civil, on-topic, and respectful. Thank you.