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PVE Build - Nightblade Tank (Heavy armor, 1h/shield)

  • RatsnevE
    RatsnevE
    ✭✭✭
    Xithian wrote: »
    Trolls are a pain in the rear. The key is fire damage. DKs and Templars have fire damage skills, and Sorcs have easy access to fire damage as well.

    Just try and keep a weapon with fire damage for the enchant. It will help with trolls, trust me.
    Thanks for this. Is there any in-game clue as to the strengths and the _weaknesses_ of foes or is it just a guessing game?

    BTW, are there any traps you can set / disarm / move around or bombs you can throw in the game? I don't think so. Probably another area where ZMO has saved themselves some grief?
    Edited by RatsnevE on May 11, 2014 4:42PM
    <+> Florasteel <+>
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
  • Xithian
    Xithian
    ✭✭✭
    There are targetted AoE skills and Sorcs have a mine skill. Nightblades do not get any love in the AoE department.

    Edit: There's also "Fire Rune" under mages guild skills.
    Edited by Xithian on May 11, 2014 5:53PM
  • rogerugland
    rogerugland
    Soul Shriven
    Thanx for a brilliant post, i just wondered what ratio you use on magica, health and stamina?
  • Xithian
    Xithian
    ✭✭✭
    Honestly it doesnt matter very much. Until recently I was 9 magicka / 20 health / 20 stamina. I switched to 0/29/20. VR5 food can give you as many attribute points as all 50 levels.
  • Roewan
    Roewan
    Soul Shriven
    Thanks so much for this! Is this close to viable while leveling? I gave it a shot and epically failed, so I could use any advice you can spare.
  • Xithian
    Xithian
    ✭✭✭
    This is specifically for leveling. All of the skills unlock pretty early. The higher you get, the more effective you will be due to passives. I did not make the guide until I was level 50, but I do remember killing mobs 6 levels higher than me when I was ~level 16.

    Other than the "play style" section and what's in this thread, I'm not sure what advice I could give.
  • RatsnevE
    RatsnevE
    ✭✭✭
    I've used Xithian's build successfully up through level 20 where I am now. I've followed his active and passive skills exactly pretty much--passives not necessarily in the order he took them but I used the link and made a copy of the tree to follow myself. And I guess I instigated this thread for that matter.

    Anyway, I got into trouble just like you with certain NPCs that were way to tough at the time even though these 'bosses' where supposedly leveled at or below my PC's level.

    Battle tactics are critical. You've got to master blocking with the right mouse button when your foe radiates gold-colored spikes; and bash or interrupt spells holding the right mouse button and pressing the left mouse button when the foe radiates red-colored spikes to interrupt whatever he/she is trying to do.

    You've got light attacks pressing the left mouse button alone and heavy attacks holding the left mouse button down winding it up for a powerful attack when released. The heavy attack takes some time too which might get you into trouble if you can't time it right. Then there is evading a red zone painted on the ground by double-clicking any direction. I usually go forward so I end up behind the foe. Then there is also sneaking around and using stealth for any initial attack which the NB is good at.

    While you are getting use to all this just skip the quests that ruin you disposition for playing the game right now. If it helps (not sure it does) work quests that are leveled lowest first.

    I've died plenty of times taking on two or three foes at once but here are two tricks that can really help.

    1) If you are solo and see other players in the area or especially in a dungeon you can 'hang' with them and take on defeating foes with their help.

    2) When you die you'll discover (if you don't use up a more precious soul gem) that you almost always resurrect at a 'shrine' close enough to the battle that you can get right back into it. Focus your attack on one foe at a time. If you manage to kill one but not the second or third before dying and get back into the battle you will discover that that one foe is still dead--now you only have what's left to finish! I've died twice before in the same battle only to come back and have only one foe left.

    Some foes have tricks to killing them--watching a YouTube or a discussion of the battle might be helpful.

    I've almost finished up my 3rd area (Crahtwood) 100% but it has a number of trolls in it that I still can't touch solo--so I don't. But I've happened across others fighting them and join in then successfully. And I've watch some take them on solo successfully too.

    Think about it all and practice practice practice on lower forms. Even the crabs will fill soul gems up through level 9 I think.
    <+> Florasteel <+>
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
  • RatsnevE
    RatsnevE
    ✭✭✭
    P.S.: You've also got to use your active attacks too! Don't forget about them like I tend to in so many battles I might take on with just the mouse and movement. So understand what each of the actives is doing. Xithian, in his description, does a good job of this--I probably should read through it again.
    <+> Florasteel <+>
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
  • Roewan
    Roewan
    Soul Shriven
    I'll give it another shot. I did see your section regarding you being a khajiit. I've never been a huge fan of the race for some reason. Are there any other races you'd recommend? Would you go with one of the races that has extra 1h+shield xp or would you go for a more "rogue-y" race?
  • Xithian
    Xithian
    ✭✭✭
    The racial XP bonuses are not worth considering when deciding on a race in my opinion. You will have no problem leveling your weapon/armor while playing the game.

    http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Racial+Skills#.U3Qzj_ldXh4

    Khajiit and Bosmer (wood elves) are the only two races with the stealth bonus. I can't see getting a whole lot of use out of stealth without them using heavy armor. Stealth attacks are pretty much limited to openers though, so if you just want to shoot for direct combat...

    Redguards have increased stamina, increased stamina regen, and stamina returned on hit.

    Imperial would be my next choice. Increased health and stamina and health returned on hit.

    Orsimer (orc), Nord, and Argonian (if you do alchemy) are all decent choices as well.
  • RatsnevE
    RatsnevE
    ✭✭✭
    Damn the Trolls! Waiting for another PC to show hoping this isn't a solo only dungeon but by the rules it won't be. Finally! We took out two or three Trolls so I could discover the iron ore proof needed. I don't know what the other PC was after? Maybe he just happened on the scene and noticed me trying and dying and helped? Thanks much!
    Edited by RatsnevE on May 15, 2014 7:05AM
    <+> Florasteel <+>
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
  • Xithian
    Xithian
    ✭✭✭
    If you have too much trouble with trolls, I'd keep a fire skill handy. Fire rune from the mages guild is fun. It uses a lot of mana though, so no spamming it. You did ask about trap skills.
  • RatsnevE
    RatsnevE
    ✭✭✭
    I have a bow that does fire enchantment and a sword that does fire enchantment but neither does nearly enough from a distance or when it gets up close to cut a troll down fast enough before it cuts me down.

    What are trap skills? Is there another Active skill concerning 'fire' specifically I should consider then just the specific Actives you give in the OP? Thanks much.
    Edited by RatsnevE on May 15, 2014 4:14PM
    <+> Florasteel <+>
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
  • Xithian
    Xithian
    ✭✭✭
    Too tired to look back now, but I thought you asked me about being able to set traps at one point. Fire Rune from the mages guild is pretty much like setting a land mine.

    Edit: And I scroll up and it's the first post on this page.
    Edited by Xithian on May 15, 2014 8:49PM
  • RatsnevE
    RatsnevE
    ✭✭✭
    Status--I've reached level 29 having just ended Pelidii's End of the same level which was not 'fun' at all.

    So far I've played solo and only 'grouped' on the fly with no chatting. I'm playing 'drops only' (does 'self found' sound familiar?) with alchemy for potions as my only crafting so far.

    I hope to avoid Enchanting but glyphs I find so far seem low in potential compared to already enchanted weapons and armor. Does my level of enchantment effect the level of glyphs I find?

    Thanks.
    Edited by RatsnevE on May 18, 2014 7:18PM
    <+> Florasteel <+>
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
  • Xithian
    Xithian
    ✭✭✭
    From what I hear Enchanting is very sub-par as far as what you get. I normally just buy the basic glyphs from the enchanting vendor if I want to move things around.
  • RatsnevE
    RatsnevE
    ✭✭✭
    Xithian-- Does this OP need any update? Where do you stand with this PC? You were a ways into Veteran and I'm up to level 36 so far.

    Have you changed any slotted Actives and/or added any new Actives even if you don't slot them but for some 'special situations'? I have some different actives slotted when I need to get some soul gems filled--I do this through my second armor/weapon set. Otherwise I'm not building on any other Actives and your original 6 are all at IV.

    Same with Passives? Has your list changed or grown any? I've added some you don't list in your link to your skill tree in the OP. Can you update that link please?

    I'm enjoying the game much more now and feel my PC is over 2/3 through the Aldmeri areas.

    When I level now I'm still applying points evenly to Health, Stamina, and Magicka. I feel that this way I don't have to be particular about what armor benefit to the three I use but pick the highest armor rating and secondary benefits. I also feel like I'm building up my alchemy skills for some good potion coverage raising the three if any fall off but I still only really need potions with the main foes.

    I remapped my Ultimate key 'R' to '7' so I would stop hitting it out of order when picking up all contents from a dead foe or container. Makes more sense and '6' isn't used.

    Thanks.

    P.S. I found out exactly what "Allow out of date add-ons" means. It looks like my 3 add-ons at first glance still work okay with v. 1.1.2!
    Foundry Tactical Combat v. 0.30
    Greymind Quick Slot Bar v. 2.0
    ZrMiniMap v. 1.0b
    Edited by RatsnevE on May 22, 2014 11:09PM
    <+> Florasteel <+>
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
  • RatsnevE
    RatsnevE
    ✭✭✭
    I'm getting a feeling this thread is dead and my PC, based closely on this OP is closer and closer to a "brick wall" and the game's end for me?
    <+> Florasteel <+>
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
  • Xithian
    Xithian
    ✭✭✭
    I've been taking a break for the past few days. As I said originally, I leveled all of the way to 50 with the build. Yes, you stagnate with skills. That's the downside of using a build that unlocks everything very early.

    Since getting into veteran I've tried out medium armor, dual wielding, switched from Werewolf to Vampire (I make heavy use of Essence Drain now. It's addictive.) I always end up switching back to this build when things get tough, only Essence Drain is in place of the 2nd skill, leaving me with only one weapon skill in the build.

    I didn't touch on passives so much because there's little reason not to take every passive related to your build. You end up with a lot of points. I'm over 150 at the moment. I just start playing around with new skills every now and then.
  • RatsnevE
    RatsnevE
    ✭✭✭
    Fascinating... Then my biggest weakness may still be locked up in my battle tactics. It has been recommended to me by Zenimax support that I respec to support medium armor and dual wielding. And they of course strongly encourage me to take on the private dungeons I've skipped by joining with a group of four--I'll be the weakest link in the lot if and when I do that. I imagine there will be some interest in grouping for the early ones with a level 39 PC? But I'm almost afraid to try and I certainly don't know how to use the chat window yet.

    It sounds from your current PC that there is nothing to change or add to your OP at the top of this thread?

    Like so many I am still having unresolved crashing problems from this memory leak issue brought on by the 1.1.2 update which yesterday afternoons hotfix doesn't seem to fix.
    Edited by RatsnevE on May 25, 2014 4:22PM
    <+> Florasteel <+>
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
  • Xithian
    Xithian
    ✭✭✭
    There's generally helpful people around if you look past the trolls in /zone. If I can level my AD up (Ewww...AD) a bit I can probably follow you for a bit and see how you're doing in combat.
  • RatsnevE
    RatsnevE
    ✭✭✭
    Xithian (and others here), I don't know if you've been reading this other thread I started, http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/103033/exhausted-can-t-do-boss-battles#latest , but I'm up against Mannimarco easily killing the PC every time.

    I don't know what to do. I've been sticking with the original build but obviously not adjusting it properly. The Khajiit NB doesn't seem to be the problem. But S&B and/or Heavy Armor maybe. I can't dodge and attack or focus on minions and Manny all at the same time. I can't get in Manny's face because I can't interrupt anything he casts so far. This may be partly if not exclusively because my Stamina is always hanging around zero very very soon after starting any attack.

    I'd be very happy if I could learn to do the right things staying in heavy armor with S&B but that may not be possible? If not what is? My stats have been kept balanced but from level 40 on points will be going only into Stamina. By level 50 this will leave Stamina close if not exactly double what I have in Magicka and Health which seems to be the recommendation for a Khajiit NB. For a secondary weapon I don't know whether to stick with the bow which I have 1 active that I've now morphed into 'Venom Arrow I', or go for Dual Wielding?

    Hemorrhage is the only passive in your list I have not been able to get yet.

    I'm going to self-find (drops) the best medium armor set and store the heavy set of self-found I have (although I've somehow sold off the belt so I will re-find that again). ...And play with the bow.

    From your 'Play Style' second I see you were using Veiled Strike...instead of what in you actives lineup?

    Bash doesn't work with Stamina zero'd. :(

    Will you please take this build through how you killed Mannimarco?

    Thank you.
    Edited by RatsnevE on May 26, 2014 6:58PM
    <+> Florasteel <+>
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
  • Xithian
    Xithian
    ✭✭✭
    Well I saw your post right before work but I didn't have time to reply. (I'm always running late) I saw in your other thread that you managed the fight. :) Congrats. Probably the biggest thing is saving your Ultimate (Soul Tether) for when the adds spawn so you can AoE damage and stun them.

    I'm actually off playing D3 for a while. I kinda burned myself out on my rogue and after playing alts for a few days decided to just play a different game till I'm ready to hop back in. Still checking back here every few days.
  • RatsnevE
    RatsnevE
    ✭✭✭
    Before you disappear would you please explain this: From your 'Play Style' section of the OP I see you using Veiled Strike instead of the morph you recommend, Concealed Weapon. I've morphed to Concealed Weapon a long time ago. I don't like the idea of a costly respec just to get this one Active back to Veiled Strike. What happens here?

    Thank you. (I played D3 but probably cheated with a trainer at times to get through major battles... Have you played Guild Wars 2?)
    <+> Florasteel <+>
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
  • Xithian
    Xithian
    ✭✭✭
    You mentioned that before and I replied and corrected the OP. People often refer to skills by their original name, especially in cases where the morph isn't vital. Unless I have the skill calc up I couldn't tell you the names of half of my morphs.
    RatsnevE wrote: »
    Xithian wrote: »
    Play style:
    Lately I've been making heavy use of Veiled Strike. I will take down the first mob in a group in three hits in most cases. Veiled Strike (from stealth), heavy attack, Killer's Blade. This uses zero stamina, and your Executioner passive from the Assassin line means that you will start rapidly regaining magicka when the first mob goes down.
    How can one use Veiled Strike if you have morphed it into Concealed Weapon?
    Xithian wrote: »
    You can't. Either I didn't have it morphed yet when I posted that or I assumed you wouldn't have the morphed version.

    Edit: And yes, I have...or had, if they upped the level, a max level guardian. If that's even the class name. It's been a long time.
    Edited by Xithian on May 27, 2014 6:12PM
  • RatsnevE
    RatsnevE
    ✭✭✭
    Thanks Xithian. You or _anyone_... If you use a bow for your second weapon set what Actives would you use or recommend using? I so far have Venom Arrow 1 (morph from Poison Arrow IV), Teleport Strike III (which I think belongs with the S&B side and will be moved), Shadow Disguise I, and Soul Splitting Trap I (for soul gem filling).

    If I place Teleport Strike with S&B which Active in that set do I give up using? OR would you suggest starting off a battle in Stealth with a bow shot, then Teleport Strike hidden, and then switch to S&B with its set of Actives (per your OP) left intact?

    I would have to say that on the S&B side my least used Actives now (for better or worse) are Piece Armor IV and Deep Slash IV. Perhaps one of those should be replaced with Teleport Strike??

    Is the bow as damaging as a staff? I don't and will resist wasting points on any active I'm not going to be using and thus I'm pretty committed to the bow now.

    Thanks.
    Edited by RatsnevE on May 27, 2014 7:29PM
    <+> Florasteel <+>
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
  • Xithian
    Xithian
    ✭✭✭
    You can always use teleport strike instead of concealed weapon, but I think you still have to be behind the mob to get the stealth bonus...which to me negates half of the usefulness of the skill. If you could just drop into a group like a bomb going off it'd be very nice. If you're not using Deep Slash then I would definitely swap that out for something else. As I noted before, that's the one I dropped when I went vampire to make use for my vampire leech skill.

    You should use Pierce Armor more, especially early in the fight. It's normally my first move, second if I'm coming in from stealth. The debuff it does will make all of your other attacks do more damage. It's one of the few nice things about sword and board outside of the blocking bonuses.

    I haven't used bow since beta. I hear it's not that great for PvE content compared to staves. Staves use magicka for all of their skills though. I can't give you much advice on either. I haven't found ranged to be that vital in PvE. Generally I'm better off stealthing in and attacking from stealth, because that puts me in a spot to bash the casters. If you start off at range you have to dedicate a skill to be able to interrupt casting. But I am a vampire, so fire spells mean crispy death. I pay a lot of attention to casters.

    Edit: Also worth pointing out, now that bashing is worthless unless you are interrupting a caster, your stamina should be a lot more manageable. (Silver lining and all that) The shield charge would be a nice gap closer as well. Basically if you're always running out of stamina, go for the teleport. If you're having issues with magicka use the shield charge.
    Edited by Xithian on May 27, 2014 8:00PM
  • RatsnevE
    RatsnevE
    ✭✭✭
    Deleted.
    Edited by RatsnevE on June 1, 2014 4:48PM
    <+> Florasteel <+>
    "Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception." - Carl Sagan
  • Artis
    Artis
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Concealed Weapon only increases your speed when you're invisible(Shadow Cloak), not when you press Ctrl for sneaking.
    It is easy to check - sneak and swap weapons(I have concealed weapon on one of my skill bars). There is no difference.
    p.s. how do you tank dungeons? How to tank packs of mobs?? I tried NB-tank, but I felt useless because mobs would just run around and attack others.
  • Xithian
    Xithian
    ✭✭✭
    Artemis wrote: »
    Concealed Weapon only increases your speed when you're invisible(Shadow Cloak), not when you press Ctrl for sneaking.
    It is easy to check - sneak and swap weapons(I have concealed weapon on one of my skill bars). There is no difference.

    Unless something was changed within the past few days, you are completely mistaken. The many, many nightblades with stacking Concealed Weapon and Vampire passive stealth movement speed disagree with you. So does the mod you can download to display movement speed relative to your base walk speed.

    As to your comment about mobs running around and attacking others, this happens because in ESO when you pull a linked pack, only the mob you initially pull targets you. The rest target random party members. (Hillariously, even if they're very far away not even paying attention) The only way to counter this is by using some form of crowd control. Anything that roots mobs in place or keeps them from moving. The "easiest" skill to work in is probably Fire Rune - Volcano. Nightblade has no class skills for dealing with this. It's one of the reasons DK tanks are so much easier. Talon everything while the group kills.
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