Craglorn seems too punishing

Endlessvoid_ESO

So after reading the recent article "Creating ESO: Trials" on how it being similar to raiding content, I started gathering my notes on the Pros and Cons with the game mechanics offered. From what I've gathered, there's more Cons then Pros to this specific game play content.

- To players new to MMOs, they are unfamiliar to raiding (based on ES being a Single player for the majority of the series to the community for so long).
- Limited resurrections which leads to perfection requirements on guild recruitments to raid.
- Not role play friendly, in other words the player must have all class and weapon skills learned and maxed out with the correct morphing from suggested article.
- Player must have a lot of gold in respecing to perfect the battle raid group.
- Player must have a specific spec for that encounter to even participate.
- Content requires full balanced group to meet the trio guidelines to explore and complete quests, suggested quotes gives an idea that the map size is 1/3 of Cyrodil.
- Player must be willing to have all weapon skills maxed out, therefor is required by guilds *If such requirement is needed* to carry multiple of different weapon sets or 12 weapons minimal at all times with the included armor sets with different set bonuses to work with those weapon sets of additional bag space of 40 or more depending on the trio role. Not least but including all those weapons and armor sets need to be epic/legendary status.
- Player must have all Traits unlocked.
- Limited contented to a specific player based that results less than 2% which is concluded for a minority group.
- Reward Loot system suggested by quotes mentions a possibility that *Raid Weekly Rewards* are better than crafting and Vet dungeon drops in gear category and is limited to the top 100 raid groups per week. Which gives concern and possibility in PvP unbalance and completely voids crafted gear value.


So while the Hard Core based, the ones that didn't use the PvP exploit and get to Rank 10, from looking at the player base listings; the majority of us should be Rank 5-7. The simi-hard core should be Rank 1-2. Casual players should be around level 40-48. Multi-Character roleplay/non-roleplay makers should be around level 28-36.

That means, while Zenimax is suggesting this new Craglorn content is coming out next month or roughly 5 weeks at most, our first wave of monthly subscriptions is based on table list below:

- Leveling up alts up to 50.
- Finishing up Second and/or Third part of the faction story which will result of a Rank 5 or 10 Main Character.
- Continued or just now deciding to PvP in Cyrodil after reaching level 50 or a couple of Ranks.
- Completing the Cooking, Style, and/or Researching Traits.
- Misc: Max out Bag and Bank space, Max Horse Leveling, achievements/titles
- Craglorn/Trials (Limited to Raiding Guilds/Friends) for Veteran Experienced players only.


I am sure people will say that the first sub will be all of the above but I am curious on what specifically you will do in "May".

Sakiri

My problem is the overland content designed to steamroll a pair.

No new content if you dont have a full group. Nice design.

Not.

Tannakaobi

I'm confused, it's designed to make raiders happy yes? It all sounds ideal for that kind of player. Doubt I will do much to be honest. Now you will have something for Raiders and something for RPG's. Put better XP into PVP and everyone will be happy.

cymatt

12 Guys is for a Guild not a problem and its positiv for group play.

So if you want to play it, join a guild

Sounds simple and it is simple.

Endlessvoid_ESO

cymatt wrote: »

12 Guys is for a Guild not a problem and its positiv for group play.

So if you want to play it, join a guild

Sounds simple and it is simple.

Its just not that simple, sorry.

dagnome

So first people complain that the launch content is too easy, now people are worrying the new content will be too hard? What do you people want!!! (Other than a silly auction house). I am excited for the new content. Trials seem like a blast and i love challenging content. Lets go all dark souls on ESO and weed out the weaklings.

nerevarine1138

Sakiri wrote: »

My problem is the overland content designed to steamroll a pair.

No new content if you dont have a full group. Nice design.

Not.

There are three alliances worth of soloable content. Do you really need more?

Zorak

So don't play it.

The thing isn't even released and you are talking how hard and punishing it is.

?????

Endlessvoid_ESO

Zorak wrote: »

So don't play it.

The thing isn't even released and you are talking how hard and punishing it is.

?????

If you read the recent article and previous ones, Zenimax has been explaining what to expect in the content. If you have any video game experience on progression, too me while it doesn't bother me in certain areas; its much to punishing to other players. This is specific content directed for a specific small group, rather than targeting a large audience.

Shimond

It sounds perfect for its target audience. I'm ok with not being part of that demographic.

Ohioastro

There are a lot of assumptions built into the "you must do X" claims here. It is possible that they could overtune encounters so that you had to have some very specific builds to succeed; but maybe they don't. We'll have to see how they design them to know.

There are competitive aspects that would worry me if I cared about competing in a MMO, but I don't. So as long as I can have fun and do things I'll let others worry about being on top of the leaderboards.

Zorak

Endlessvoid_ESO wrote: »

Zorak wrote: »

So don't play it.

The thing isn't even released and you are talking how hard and punishing it is.

?????

If you read the recent article and previous ones, Zenimax has been explaining what to expect in the content. If you have any video game experience on progression, too me while it doesn't bother me in certain areas; its much to punishing to other players. This is specific content directed for a specific small group, rather than targeting a large audience.

So don't play it. =D

PS: Ppl who play MMOs and like raiding aren't a small group.

Endlessvoid_ESO

Shimond wrote: »

It sounds perfect for its target audience. I'm ok with not being part of that demographic.

Perhaps but this is targeted for "Raiders only". However Zenimax has hinted that there is major lore included in content to explain the story a little more, even though its more of a side story from the Main story; which requires a lot of things to be done before an ES fan can experience it. So its kinda whacky because again its limited to a target audience which as mentioned in hints offers the best-in-slot gear which people will complain that the loot alone would cause unbalance to PvP and of course limited content to PvE players that cant access this content for whatever reason.

Lalai

It seems geared towards the raiding or more hardcore community, so I don't really see a problem there. You even mentioned that most the casual base won't even be done with current content when released. Craglorn also seems to offer more than just raid style fights, so I'm not sure it's going to be only for raiders.. certain parts of it might be, but that's okay. I probably disagree with your "majority of players will be VR 5-7" comment. I think the large majority levels a lot slower than that. Not to say there aren't a lot of people who will be that level.. I just don't think it'll be over half the game population. Course, neither of us has anything to really back up our claims.

Really though.. I want to see the content out, and actually attempt it.. before I go saying it's too hard, or punishing, or anything else about it. Way too early to be complaining already.

Nox_Aeterna

It is quite funny really.

They make a game where you pretty much play solo and from 0 friendships or groups. Ok , i guess this comes from the whole ES feeling the game should have.

Now , when you reach vet 10 , they turn the game into a group thing...

Yeah ... not gonna do it , sorry devs. Either they also create content for single players , or im out when the story is over. I made 0 friends while lvling for the first time in a MMO lols , im not gonna just join a bunch of randoms at end game because the devs said i must to get their content.

Shimond

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

It is quite funny really.

They make a game where you pretty much play solo and from 0 friendships or groups. Ok , i guess this comes from the whole ES feeling the game should have.

Now , when you reach vet 10 , they turn the game into a group thing...

Yeah ... not gonna do it , sorry devs. Either they also create content for single players , or im out when the story is over. I made 0 friends while lvling for the first time in a MMO lols , im not gonna just join a bunch of randoms at end game because the devs said i must to get their content.

It's accessible from Vet1 actually. You have Vet1-10 to go solo if you really want to already.

Or are you trying to tell me you're Vet10 already?

rawne1980b16_ESO

Raid content in an MMO aimed at people who raid......

I have never seen this in any other MMO ever.






I died a little inside reading this thread.

UnknownXV

The harder, the better. For an MMO especially.

Endlessvoid_ESO

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

Raid content in an MMO aimed at people who raid......

I have never seen this in any other MMO ever.

I died a little inside reading this thread.

Before you start commenting, please try to be a little more informative than this. Its not about why this MMO has raiding, its how can we get everyone to raid.

Right now judging from the articles from Zenimax stating what this patch will contain and what we have now on game mechanics, its asking too much from the majority of player base and limits other players that are role playing; to be included in this content. I would like to see the restrictions lessen considerably so everyone can access it but yet to be seen. I am theorizing that "Craglorn" will ever make or break TESO, the way this is set up.

Lalai

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

They make a game where you pretty much play solo and from 0 friendships or groups. Ok , i guess this comes from the whole ES feeling the game should have.

They create one aspect of the game targeted at a specific audience that likes to group and raid. It's not the end of the world, and certainly doesn't have to be the only thing they add in a content patch, just the only thing they've focused on thus far because right now.. it's a thing missing from the game. There are no large group based dungeons.. where-as there's plenty of solo-able content, and plenty of 4-man group dungeons.

You're also choosing to play solo and form 0 friendships in the game, and you should have that choice. People should also get content that's catered to groups though. Both sides of the coin and all that, so that people can kinda do what they want to do, and have that choice. I have made some good friends on my trip to 40 (usually folks I meet while doing a group dungeon), and have been in multiple groups for.. well group dungeons. Even some public ones (the more difficult ones that is), or overworld bosses.

Yes, the phasing leans more towards solo play for regular questing, yes there could be more of a reward (exp boost maybe) to the 4-man dungeons.. but let's not pretend there's no group content available, or no reason to group, on the journey to max level.

Nox_Aeterna

Shimond wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

It is quite funny really.

They make a game where you pretty much play solo and from 0 friendships or groups. Ok , i guess this comes from the whole ES feeling the game should have.

Now , when you reach vet 10 , they turn the game into a group thing...

Yeah ... not gonna do it , sorry devs. Either they also create content for single players , or im out when the story is over. I made 0 friends while lvling for the first time in a MMO lols , im not gonna just join a bunch of randoms at end game because the devs said i must to get their content.

It's accessible from Vet1 actually. You have Vet1-10 to go solo if you really want to already.

Or are you trying to tell me you're Vet10 already?

Nope im not , actually im not even vet1 , i keep playing on my alts far too much atm , my top lvl is 45 templar :P.

Well then , i guess my point still stands , clearly the content they made for you to repeat , is craglorn , which is a group content ...

Now , i will play the game till vet10 pretty much solo , so that i can check the whole story , unless they also got a time sink for me when i get at vet 10 , then i will unsub , i will have "finished" the game.

Note , im not hating on the game , im saying i will pay for it , while i have something to do in it , it is that simple. If the only top lvl time sink is group based , then i will leave , nothing major.

Usually in other MMOs i would have a few "friends" by top lvl , but i really dont see this happening in this game.

Zershar_Vemod

Man, I wish I could have had early access to it like the OP...

Endlessvoid_ESO

Lalai wrote: »

They create one aspect of the game targeted at a specific audience that likes to group and raid. It's not the end of the world, and certainly doesn't have to be the only thing they add in a content patch, just the only thing they've focused on thus far because right now.. it's a thing missing from the game. There are no large group based dungeons.. where-as there's plenty of solo-able content, and plenty of 4-man group dungeons.

However again, its content specifically towards raiders and ES fans like lore and so to be able to access that content they need to follow the harsh restrictions listed above on my first post, to even access it. Right now this the first subscription for TESO and so the idea, which I put in the bottom of my first post, is "What are you subscribing for?" and already the gear loot drop system offered in raiding only, provides concern on how it affects the other content of the game.

Lalai

Endlessvoid_ESO wrote: »

However again, its content specifically towards raiders and ES fans like lore and so to be able to access that content they need to follow the harsh restrictions listed above on my first post, to even access it. Right now this the first subscription for TESO and so the idea, which I put in the bottom of my first post, is "What are you subscribing for?" and already the gear loot drop system offered in raiding only, provides concern on how it affects the other content of the game.

A lot of the requirements you listed are assumptions you made based on what was out. They are not fact. It's also a TES game, anything out is going to have lore attached to it.. and I would expect it to. There are "requirements" for a lot of different things. To get into Veteran ranks you have to complete all the main questlines, to complete those you actually have to level the guilds by doing things specific to getting those things exp. We don't know what gear is gonna drop, we don't know how it's going to compare to any other gear added in the patch, or any gear already available.

My whole point is there is a ton we don't know and it's too soon to be complaining just cause one thing got added that caters to a specific group of people.

Edited to add: I'm subscribing because there's still a ton to do in the game, and I find the game fun. If I stop finding the game fun, for whatever reason.. I'll stop subscribing, it really is that simple.

2nd edit to add: After re-watching the Craglorn video again, just to make sure I didn't miss some requirements.. most of the requirements you listed are totally bogus. A lot of the Craglorn content is aimed at 4 player groups, with only the trials being the 12-man stuff.. and the only requirement is going to be doing the quests to unlock things (within Craglorn), and being VR1. That's it.

Nox_Aeterna

Lalai wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

They make a game where you pretty much play solo and from 0 friendships or groups. Ok , i guess this comes from the whole ES feeling the game should have.

They create one aspect of the game targeted at a specific audience that likes to group and raid. It's not the end of the world, and certainly doesn't have to be the only thing they add in a content patch, just the only thing they've focused on thus far because right now.. it's a thing missing from the game. There are no large group based dungeons.. where-as there's plenty of solo-able content, and plenty of 4-man group dungeons.

You're also choosing to play solo and form 0 friendships in the game, and you should have that choice. People should also get content that's catered to groups though. Both sides of the coin and all that, so that people can kinda do what they want to do, and have that choice. I have made some good friends on my trip to 40 (usually folks I meet while doing a group dungeon), and have been in multiple groups for.. well group dungeons. Even some public ones (the more difficult ones that is), or overworld bosses.

Yes, the phasing leans more towards solo play for regular questing, yes there could be more of a reward (exp boost maybe) to the 4-man dungeons.. but let's not pretend there's no group content available, or no reason to group, on the journey to max level.

Most of the "friends" i made in MMOs are people from my guild , i see lvling with me , form groups from time to time to do quests , and we end up playing together from some point on. Usually the groups gets bigger and bigger to a resonable amount and we just have fun together while lvling.

Now , in this game , i cant tell if someone is or not in my guild , therefore , i form 0 groups while lvling , and thus i have 0 friends at lvl 45 which is well over 100 hours in this game with that one char alone.

I cant really complain if we stop to think about it , $/hour by the time i reach vet 10 , even if i stop playing on the spot , will have made the whole thing well worth its cost for someone who wants to check the ES lore in this game.

Melian

Endlessvoid_ESO wrote: »

However again, its content specifically towards raiders and ES fans like lore and so to be able to access that content they need to follow the harsh restrictions listed above on my first post, to even access it. Right now this the first subscription for TESO and so the idea, which I put in the bottom of my first post, is "What are you subscribing for?" and already the gear loot drop system offered in raiding only, provides concern on how it affects the other content of the game.

Where are you getting that? ZOS didn't say "you must respec and have all weapon skills maxed out to access this content". Will you have to if you want to have a shot at topping leaderboards? Yeah, most likely. But who needs to top leaderboards?

Sakiri

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

My problem is the overland content designed to steamroll a pair.

No new content if you dont have a full group. Nice design.

Not.

There are three alliances worth of soloable content. Do you really need more?

I didnt ask for solo content you milk drinker.

knightblaster

The endgame is structured so that hardcore raiders have Craglorn, and everyone else has Cyrodiil PvP and soloing to rank 10, and then alts. Sort of like vanilla WoW was.

Shimond

Sakiri wrote: »

I didnt ask for solo content you milk drinker.

Yea you've been repeatedly asking for duo content, which is just not something I'm familiar with being provided much in any MMO.

Endlessvoid_ESO

Lalai wrote: »

A lot of the requirements you listed are assumptions you made based on what was out. They are not fact.

Did you even read the article?

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2014/04/23/creating-eso-trials

Having played many MMOs and Zenimax already said that what is being done here is no different from a standard MMO, the requirements I listed, arn't really that off in speculation. Doesn't mean I can't have a concern. However while it isn't out yet, reading the paragraphs, they did put a heavy hint that the player is required to max out all skills in a majority of areas which pretty much pushes out role players of the picture and one cannot be that far off in the implied emphasis that it will test out the most pre-prepared player, it sounds like; if you have ever played WoW Pre-AQ 40; just about that.

Sakiri

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

Raid content in an MMO aimed at people who raid......

I have never seen this in any other MMO ever.






I died a little inside reading this thread.

Ah, if only it were just raids.
Overland zone with a major quest line... kinda reminds me of most of WoWs patches... except the entire zone is instanced to your group and if you dont have four solid people youre screwed.

Thats the part I hate. ENTIRE patch aimed at raiders, even the quest content.

And for the record, Ill probably be VR10 by then. Hit VR1 about four days ago and have been putzing around because Daggerfall sucks.