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Official Discussion Thread for "Creating ESO: Trials"

  • lotharlocnar_ESO
    I've found that these "instances" unless changed weekly or monthly etc...will become routinely done and if there is "Unique" loot above power and levels of even legendary items there will be professional(ones who lead a toon or 2 that is not theirs) through to get these "unique" items. The ones who do this instance in a common course of play will become known and for gold(or real money) they will take with them another toon for a power level TYPE of deal.If this instance gives no extraordinary items then it will just be done routinely for the achievement glory till it gets boring for most players that do it. To inhibit this, the AI has to be flexible and change things around based on the previous instance that particular group or majority of that particular group faced. Otherwise there will be eventually a cookie cutter way to deal with the instance and doing that will result in success every time. Why create a cookie cutter instance? I am seeing this in the PvP area as well. the gank squads that rule the upper vet levels make the instance pretty much unplayable/unenjoyable for lower levels.Entire maps are being ruled because of these comparable extreme high levels of toons. The AI has to take into account for this and limit side numbers/levels and keep the disparity in them within 2-4 levels.
    Just this veteran MMO player's opinion. Let's not fall to the WARHAMMER MMO fate.
    "No moment of despair is so great it cannot be overcome by a fifth of good bourbon and a beautiful woman in black seamed stockings and 6-inch stiletto heels."
  • Noshiz
    Noshiz
    ✭✭
    Thank you Zenimax! Give us hard content with challenge to do!

    And loot!
  • martinhpb16_ESO
    martinhpb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Awesome ! This is what my guild came here for cant wait.

    Thank you
    At least the spelling is difficult for you.
    Hew's Bane*
  • hilelorangutan
    Hrithmus wrote: »
    This is what MMO's do. They pull the bait and switch. Whats that? You spent 400k on crafting and 100+ hours getting to be a master Crafter? Sooooo sorry. You can only make tier III armor. Tier 4 is ONLY acquirable by beating the last boss on the 12 man raid.

    This same thing happened in Guild Wars 2 when they came out with ascended armor. I assume this game will be no different.

    It's possible you guys are reading too much into this. All that article said was "the very best loot" could have meant the best loot you can get in Craglorn, obviously either way it's not going to mean the very best loot you can ever get in the game, and I'm glad they weren't going to draw the line of the best gear you can ever CRAFT in the game being what was there in the launch, the game needs to grow.

    They did mention that gear being set pieces, I could see a lot of potential in this game for sets with very specific bonuses designed for group roles, I think that's pretty exciting.

    Also just to throw this out there, Ascended Gear was part crafted, part dungeon tokens in GW2, so there is also that..
  • Lithion
    Lithion
    ✭✭
    I love this game, but man this is one of the whiniest communities (at least on the forums). Will you all just stop with the drastic speculation of the things that are going to kill ESO? There is such a sense of entitlement from so many people who argue on this forum that it is almost nauseating.

    Lol, I like you :)

    Also, to those people complaining about elitism, you're completely missing the point of MMOs. The whole point of MMOs is to play together with people you actually like. If you don't like elitists, you DON'T have to play with them... simple as that.

    No one is forcing you to play with the elitists. You can easily find both casual AND hardcore guilds in any MMO, and ESO is not an exception. So if you don't like rushing against timers or if you don't like the pressure of an "elitist" group, then feel free to find a group/guild of like-minded players. There seems to be plenty of elitist-hating players on these forums, so you shouldn't have a problem finding a guild of like-minded players.

    Isn't that the whole point of guilds in the first place? You choose who you want to play with. You should join a more casual guild if you want to experience the content at a slower pace and enjoy a non-competitive environment. You should join a semi-hardcore guild if you want to be more competitive. And you can join a hardcore (elitist) guild if you want to be the best of the best. There's room for all types of guilds in ESO, just find the one (or multiple) that suit you.

    And this is coming from someone who has been part of all 3 types of guilds in WoW. I started raiding in a casual guild, and there was absolutely no competitive pressure there. But I didn't feel like it was a good fit, so I moved to a slightly more competitive raiding guild. But I still felt they were too "casual", so I moved to a more hardcore raiding guild, where I was surrounded by like-minded players, and I really had a great time.

    Eventually, though, I founded and ran my own semi-hardcore raiding guild. We would only recruit like-minded players, and we had no problem turning away "casuals" and overly "hardcore" players. This is how MMOs are meant to be played. Alongside like-minded players whose play-styles match your own.
  • Amfijakerwb17_ESO
    I hope you don't go over board with this group thing. Remember Disco Dancing? Had to have a partner, too hard so it died. Diablo is way too much killing and it has taken the fun out of the game, some of us or rather a lot of us work alone and team up occasionally, people work, online offline it is hard to team up with just one other player if you can get that! I am finding most of the players I am coming across in the game don't want to team up at all! A lot won't even help as you are getting killed they wait for you to fight and die and then finish off the monster and get the loot. I personally think you are going a little bit too far. Please stop it before I personally quit. Thank you, sincerely just my opinion, I just know what I am coming across as I am playing.

    Go overboard with tthe group thing? This is the loneliest MMO. You can do almost everything solo. You have several hundreds of hours of solo content while levelling.

  • andrequina13eb17_ESO
    Oh, I have one idea before Zenimax should introduce new content into the game. It may sound crazy I know but before craiglorn comes out maybe you should, I don t know... FIX THE GAME FIRST.

    I appreciate that the new content that is coming out is worthy ( or so zenimax says ) of a challenge since the game so far delivers very little challenge which makes it quite boring in its current state.

    I appreciate the huge amount of work put into making the game play with a smooth FPS even with a lot of players on screen. I appreciate the lore and voice acting. I appreciate a lot of things.

    What I don't appreciate is charging people a full priced game with 15 dollars a month on top of that for an unfinished product. I spent days stuck on a Cyrodiil wall, in-game customer support is non-existant.

    The bugs, the desynchs, the lack of combat responsiveness, weapon swap barely works in mid combat, the ridiculous inbalance in PVP with abilities such as Bolt Escape and pretty much all Vampire skills.

    Also, why does Zenimax punishes players by allowing them to level up through quests ONLY ? I like questing as much as the next guy but FORCING players to go through 300+ hours plus of questing is insanity and horribly boring.

    Dear Zenimax, what's wrong with you?
  • martinhpb16_ESO
    martinhpb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, I have one idea before Zenimax should introduce new content into the game. It may sound crazy I know but before craiglorn comes out maybe you should, I don t know... FIX THE GAME FIRST.

    I appreciate that the new content that is coming out is worthy ( or so zenimax says ) of a challenge since the game so far delivers very little challenge which makes it quite boring in its current state.

    I appreciate the huge amount of work put into making the game play with a smooth FPS even with a lot of players on screen. I appreciate the lore and voice acting. I appreciate a lot of things.

    What I don't appreciate is charging people a full priced game with 15 dollars a month on top of that for an unfinished product. I spent days stuck on a Cyrodiil wall, in-game customer support is non-existant.

    The bugs, the desynchs, the lack of combat responsiveness, weapon swap barely works in mid combat, the ridiculous inbalance in PVP with abilities such as Bolt Escape and pretty much all Vampire skills.

    Also, why does Zenimax punishes players by allowing them to level up through quests ONLY ? I like questing as much as the next guy but FORCING players to go through 300+ hours plus of questing is insanity and horribly boring.

    Dear Zenimax, what's wrong with you?

    There are plenty of forum threads that mention all of this stuff, why are you posting here?

    Almost nothing of what you say has anything to do with this thread subject and bears no fruit apart from ranting.
    At least the spelling is difficult for you.
    Hew's Bane*
  • Lanlin
    Lanlin
    Audigy wrote: »
    ...
    If you however are an Elitist and demand that I spent 8 hours raiding, that I install hundred´s of addons so you can break the current trial record, that I use a spec that improves my performance by 5% ... then this is a force. I don't have any option of doing it casually, you force everyone around you to be a professional player and this is Elitism.

    Look at wow raiding. It proves how bad Elitism has become in MMO gaming these days. A tiny % of the community dictates how everyone has to play. This is what I am talking about! Understood now?

    Its always fun arguing with someone who joined the MMO world with WOTLK ;) Anyways I will try my best.

    ...

    MMO´s never and I repeat, NEVER were about premades! The system of premades came with World of Warcraft. Before that it was totally normal to be a part of the community, to play with others and not only 9 or 13 chosen ones.

    ....

    A new MMO however cant be tailored to only premade content, especially in an ESO environment. People wont be willing to stay if they cant experience the content.

    ....

    Insulting me wont give you any credibility, you act like all Elitist´s do if they have no valid arguments. You insult those that are right to cover up your own lack or argumentation.

    Well played!

    In fact i never even tried to insult you - all I did is state that the last point you made is irrelevant because you misread the whole thing for one part and that I would not comment on gear-related concerns.

    So i will try to comment again and dismantle your arguments once more without sounding agressive this time around.

    Starting at the top i thought i gave a pretty good example right there using football and Champions-League. Of course there will be "Elitists" forming their groups... But who says you will need to team up with exactly those people? How about you search for 11 other guys that want to play the game exactly the way you want - yeah you probably wont have a chance to beat those top notch timed runs, buuuuuuut why care in the first place if you are NOT "Elitist"?

    I actually might have started playing MMOs later than you did - who knows... What I do know though is that the orignal Everquest (which was my first MMO) surely did employ the idea of finding your own small community of friends and persuing a certain goal together - which is PREMADE play. IMO it is exactly the opposite... MMOs were always about premades before WoW invented the Dungeon-Finder Mode which alienated the social gameplay by a large degree.

    I do get your point stating that an MMO especially with the Elder Scrolls background needs a large part of soloable content...
    But however u want to look at it, it is there! This game has tons and tons of soloable content to offer and if you care for the lore you can play uncountable hours enjoying this game without ever partying up for a dungeon or trial.
    But it is not a pure Singleplayer Game in the end, ist it?

    So there HAS to be some kind of content that implies the idea of playing a MMO, which is Dungeons for one part - but to be honest before Craglorn and the trials are released, that part of the game lacks a whole lot, while the soloable content is perfectly fine. Thus they made the correct decision by adding some content catering the people that are playing this game primarily because of the "MMO" aspect rather than wanting to play another singleplayer Elder Scrolls game.

    I seriously don't think I need to insult anyone here to make my point since my arguments are derived from pure logic by the way. In fact I much rather am seeing you acting like the game was made only for your sake. There sure are enough people out there that think exactly like you do - but then there are also the ones thinking the exact opposite you know? Why not let Zenimax try getting both parties satisfied to a certain degree rather than supporting only your side.
  • martinhpb16_ESO
    martinhpb16_ESO
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    I am always perplexed by these non-grouping types who come onto raid forum threads and complain about raid content and use derogatory names like elitist like its a dirty word. They then usually profess that they have no interest in playing this content and that this is further reason for it to get nerfed.

    In my last mmo they had festivals. I hated festivals, I hated all the task based quests around dancing and throwing snowballs. I had no interest in grinding the rewards such as festival mounts, emotes and cosmetics.

    What I didn't do was post on the forums and deride festival players as elitist, solo, casual, roleplayer, scum who were somehow ruining my experience. Nor did I comment on how dare the devs release any content that wasn't for me. I also didn't complain why I can't have the festival rewards, even though I am not putting any time and energy into the quests."Its just not fair, I want them too but without the effort. I'm crafting but my cloaks don't look as fancy as the festival ones" :neutral_face:

    What I did was just ignore the festivals. I enjoyed what I did want to do and was thankful that there was content out there for people who did this stuff and thanks be, because it meant more people playing the game and that meant $ to keep it going.

    Why do we see non-grouping players so bitterly hostile to content that they don't want to play with such vitriolic opposition towards people that do?

    People need to think about what they say and do themselves before pointing fingers.

    Do you really want raiders and people who like group content to leave? That's less people to trade, pvp, and talk with. Less money and therefore development for the game. Do you really want that or are you that selfish?

    Get a grip for goodness sake.
    Edited by martinhpb16_ESO on April 25, 2014 11:48AM
    At least the spelling is difficult for you.
    Hew's Bane*
  • Chryos
    Chryos
    ✭✭✭✭
    Elitism

    This is where you find a guild of like minded players who aren't elitist. However sometimes to have to be part of the team to win, this means you need to do your part and not be an individual. End Game content is not for people who stand still and use the same skill over and over. It's content designed for the best. Not everyone can play the end game, but everyone has an opportunity to work hard and play the game end. Evolve or get left behind.

    Also if you think rushing to level 50 will make you ready for the end game, you are sorely mistaken. Take the time to learn how to play your class, conduct out of game research to see what works and what does not work. Learn your strengths and your weakness, learn how to move and work as a team. Don't argue with the group or raid leader. Most people think they play better than they actually do. Listen to critisicm, pay attention. Buy a headset and install TeamSpeak or Mumble. Don't goof off when engaging in end game content "because this is just a game".

    With a lot of practice (and a lot of wiping out), you eventually start seeing success. When I played EQ1, it took years of finding the right players, getting them geared up, getting people trained to work as a team, and a whole lot of practice. You are definitely not going to make that happen with a "pick up group".
    Edited by Chryos on April 25, 2014 12:58PM
    If I am going to quote someone, it's going to be me.
  • Chryos
    Chryos
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    Elite players want like-minded serious, hardcore players who also want to do more than the average player can do. LIke the special forces of the game world. There is nothing wrong with that. Why should they lower their standards to you? Why can you not raise your low standards to theirs? You know how people get geared up? They participate in guild functions. Don't expect to get a free ride or just be a roster number and get geared up for raiding. Be a part of a hardworking team, and not a "gear leecher".
    If I am going to quote someone, it's going to be me.
  • Chryos
    Chryos
    ✭✭✭✭
    Now with that said:

    If indeed you want to start your path to the endgame. You can seek out "The Society of Shadows" (Ebonheart Pact, NA server). Lord Rael (our guild leader, or myself) will speak with you in game. Before talking with us you will need a headset and Teamspeak3 downloaded; we will help you set it up. You need a good attitude and not be bitchy or whiny. You need a lot of motivation and not have thin skin. People speak loudly and with authority when in pvp or endgame, that's how it is, when leading, anywhere. We wont treat you like crap but we will be curt when on mission (theres no time for "being polite" in combat). Participation in guild PvP is a must if you want to be considered to join us in the end game. Why would be choose a "social butterfly" or a self centered and lazy person over someone who works his/her butt off. Rewards go to the hard workers (the ones who show up for guild functions).

    Our guild is not all hard work and no fun, we goof off too. But as said before, we all agree that we want to see more than the standard casual player can do. So, we are going to work at it.

    --PvP participation is a must for teamwork training.
    --Headset is a must for communication (I'm not typing movement commands when I can just say them)
    -- Good attitude and motivation is required
    -- Act mature (well mostly...)

    If this is you, than you are what we are looking for!

    Contact Chryos, Lord_Rael in game. If you meet all of these requirements before talking with us; You will most likely get an immediate invite. Know one thing, if you ride with us, you will not fail.

    If I am going to quote someone, it's going to be me.
  • Viverim
    Viverim
    ✭✭
    Chryos wrote: »
    Elite players want like-minded serious, hardcore players who also want to do more than the average player can do. LIke the special forces of the game world. There is nothing wrong with that.

    I can agree with this, for the most part. You want to join a group who have the same drives as you. Nothing wrong with that at all.

    Chryos wrote: »
    Why should they lower their standards to you? Why can you not raise your low standards to theirs? You know how people get geared up? They participate in guild functions.

    This, I have a problem with. You imply that any style of play which does not conform to yours is inherently inferior. You don't want others to exclude your style, yet you want to exclude theirs? And why not call 'guild functions' by their proper name; Raiding.
    Chryos wrote: »
    Don't expect to get a free ride or just be a roster number and get geared up for raiding. Be a part of a hardworking team, and not a "gear leecher".

    You assume, once more, that people want gear for Raiding, when the main objection I seem to see in those voicing an opposing opinion is that they don't want to be part of the "forced grouping" which has been announced, yet also don't want to be skipped over and made weaker than those who enjoy this style of play. Is it really so horrible to allow other ways to achieve a similar level of success? I usually mention crafting because crafting also takes a great deal of time and effort. I'm sure there could be other methods besides this as well.

    Honestly, do y'all really think that it's some outrageous request that the outworld part of the zone be friendly to all? As stated Craglorn itself, as a zone, will be forced grouping. Not just trials. Not just Dungeons. The entire zone.

    I also don't think we would have had as much of a problem if this were the second or third add-on content. It is unfortunate that this is the first, as it has created a really huge division in opinion.

    I'm sure that the Trials will be awesome for those who enjoy that kid of thing, and it looks like they put a lot of effort and thought into it. But I'm not a Raider and I never will be. Too much drama, too much stress, and I already have a job, thank you. I simply hope that they continue to put as much effort and creativity into future expansions as they obviously have in this one.
  • nbradetteb16_ESO
    nbradetteb16_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    Wow, people here tend to whine and make too many assumptions/speculation.

    It's add-on content. It didn't say you needed to be in 12-man groups to acquire "better content", but that unique items could be achieved through this new add-on. You can either craft the very best, but if you don't craft, you rely on drops or buying if you have the gold. Why shouldn't people who don't want to craft be denied the opportunity to get some great loot now and then?

    First the community whined about drops not being good enough, now they are whining because the drops might be "too good"? That's... rich :/

    Only criticism I agree with is maybe bringing it down to an 8-man group since it is harder to get 12 people on the same page, but we'll see how it turns out.

    Really looking forward to Trials, either way. Keep up the great work!
  • RookBorn
    RookBorn
    ✭✭
    This really motivates me to get up to level 50 and the veteran ranks. I'm so excited for this. Keep up the good work Zeni, you're new to mmos and you're dealing with the pressure in a good manner.

    Keep it up.
    Khajiit Nightblade - V6
    --The Brigade--
    Biggest achievement so far - Veteran Area unlocked at 46
  • lotharlocnar_ESO
    To all those that stated Zeni must fix the old stuff b4 they intro new stuff is right on!! 100% agree with you.
    "No moment of despair is so great it cannot be overcome by a fifth of good bourbon and a beautiful woman in black seamed stockings and 6-inch stiletto heels."
  • martinhpb16_ESO
    martinhpb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    To all those that stated Zeni must fix the old stuff b4 they intro new stuff is right on!! 100% agree with you.

    I think what you mean is fix the new stuff, before releasing the already developed other new stuff?

    This makes no sense, delaying the Trials will not put extra resource into fixing the already released new stuff, which is actually already being worked on.

    Also delaying release of Trials has other risks such as people whining about delays in promised content releases, gaps in end-game content etc.

    This is a very new game with a massive amount of content that was released in one go. If people think that there were not going to be bugs and snagging issues then they are clearly living in La-La land.
    Edited by martinhpb16_ESO on April 26, 2014 9:19AM
    At least the spelling is difficult for you.
    Hew's Bane*
  • lotharlocnar_ESO
    martinhpb 16_ESO wrote-
    "This is a very new game with a massive amount of content that was released in one go. If people think that there were not going to be bugs and snagging issues then they are clearly living in La-La land".

    Bugs shouldn't include disregarded week after week long issues! This hopefully is not this companies (employees) first rodeo, and surely they've seen and played other MMOs that needed fixed as well in almost the same areas. We (for the most part as MMO enthusists) know about quest bugs/item dupes/falling through the world issues,spawn rates,asian gold farmer spam,item malfunctions...etc. It's not a "new" set of issues here. The same things happen over and over again to MMOs.

    If I am a tech working on a project I would know what issues most MMOs have in the area I work in (hopefully) I wouldn't leave the problem in and when asked about it just shrug and say "All the other MMOs have these problems on start up, so what?" Let's make new content and gloss over the problems we have currently.We can fix em later, I'm late for lunch anyway.

    I would hope the pvp balance issues,the item glitches,spawn rates,power of NPC mobs...etc would be addressed immediately. It's only after everything is put together that it's "massive" but each person working on their area of code or whatever makes it work should be responsible for that area of malfunction and held accountable for a TIMELY fix! There are plenty of people, some better than others, just waiting to get hired and show how good they can do that job the original employee messed up on.

    The La-La land I see is the land where the designers/devs live w/o connection to the subscribers needs and desires (to a point).

    This is just a game, it's not warfare,it's not the stock market (some consider a game too), it's not a life risking situation, but it's various people's interests/hobby/passtime..they pay money for, some people more than others.Respect of the time subscribers put into it should be acknowledged by competency in the layout,function,working order and overall pride in a company,shown by timely fixes and information dissemination to it's patrons.


    "No moment of despair is so great it cannot be overcome by a fifth of good bourbon and a beautiful woman in black seamed stockings and 6-inch stiletto heels."
  • cpablo1182ub17_ESO
    buys a game, refuses to play portions of the game because he will have to adapt his play style... doesnt want to play an MMO with other people...
    Viverim wrote: »

    Don't get me wrong. The scenes look beautiful and it sounds like a lot of hard work went into it. I, however, will NOT be visiting Craglorn, so no matter how much work and effort went into it, I will not be appreciating it as my own style of play has been purposely excluded.

    Better luck with the next add-on. Maybe it won't be as divisive as this one is.

  • Viverim
    Viverim
    ✭✭
    buys a game, refuses to play portions of the game because he will have to adapt his play style... doesnt want to play an MMO with other people...

    Plays a game which favors and, in many quest lines demands solo play, and then is surprised that people find the "bait-and-switch" of Craglorn to be disconcerting.
  • morpheusb16_ESO
    Wow, Craglorn sounds quite a bit like the experience, I hoped to avoid, by playing TESO.

    Now I just hope, that ZeniMax stays true, to the claim, that crafted gear is the state of the art and, that one doesn't need to raid, to stay on top of ones game, as a crafter.

  • fyrefenix
    fyrefenix
    ✭✭✭
    Audigy wrote: »
    A few concerns:

    1. Elitism

    Those that played wow and other MMO´s who focused on raid content will know that specific people will tell other players how to play the game.

    If you want to play it your way, you are insulted and excluded from the content.
    Seeing that the adventure zone has a timer running, I am afraid the same Elitism might come up here.

    People so scared of not having the best time will harass everyone who in their opinion is guilty for their weak time. This will make the whole Adventure Zone inaccessible for players who believed in the TESO philosophy "play as you want".

    2. Premade

    As far I understand, those Adventure Zones are only for premades right? Its similar to heroic raids then or rated BG´s at wow. If you cant commit to a schedule of a guild, you are out as the grouping tool wont support it. How is ZO going to address that issue, or do you want to release content that only 5% of the players are able to see?

    3. Crafting

    When we bought TESO we were told that crafting is equal to raid gear. But now you say raid gear is the best in the game? So were we lied or how does this work out now?


    Don't get me wrong, the idea of an 8 hour lasting dungeon run sounds fun. It reminds me of the days when I used to play professional wow and we streamed our raids on TV stations around the world. Fact however is, who really has those 8 hours and the ability to form premades?

    In my opinion the idea is fun, but we will need protection from Elitism, a free to enter grouping tool and some solo content for those who refuse to group.

    i totally agree!

    Edited by fyrefenix on April 28, 2014 1:06AM
    Natjur ✭✭✭
    4:24PM
    There is currently only two classes in this game, DK and Sorcs.
    Templar's and NB are just 'extras' that have not been removed yet.
  • fyrefenix
    fyrefenix
    ✭✭✭
    Viverim wrote: »
    Lanlin wrote: »
    I absolutely cannot understand why minutes after awesome content is revealed there is always people that bring up irrational concerns.
    So you are concerned about "Elitism"? I personally wonder how this term has grown so much hate to its name in gaming environment.

    Because "Elite" players (or, Raid Groups, if you prefer) aren't just happy doing what they love to do. They demand that Raid gear be at least 2-3 times better than anything else available. They often site "time required" or "strategies learned" as their excuse for this attitude, but really it comes down to wanting to be more powerful than anyone else.
    Lanlin wrote: »
    Isn't it completely usual that some people want to be better at what they are doing than others? And isn't it obvious that gaming shouldn't be different than any other activity on the globe you can participate in?
    Any kind of sports, any kind of job, love, whatever people do there is always some kind of competition involved. So why do people hate on players that choose gaming to be an "Elitist" in? It shouldn't even concern you. Can't you play soccer and enjoy playing it just because someone in Champions-League is doing better than you and earning lots of money by doing so?

    And this game supports PvP competition. So, anyone who enjoys playing in large groups will gain a distinct advantage over anyone who does not wish to do the same. This form of exclusion will cause issues with PvP, which I am pretty sure is intended to be a good part of end-game activities.

    Crafting differs from Raiding in one very distinct way. Any and everyone can do it. There are so many skill points available that you aren't really wasting them by leveling up one or even two skills. Raids, on the other hand, require you to actually play the game in a manner you might not find enjoyable. Thus the concern over gear.

    Now, as for the whole "This Is An MMO" reaction, I have two comments to respond. #1 - this is an Elder Scrolls game. I would wager that a majority of the player base is used to playing the previous games, all of which are single player. When you make a game with such a pre-existing base, you must at least keep in mind they will have their own preferences and opinions. #2 - For those who always like to say "it's not a console game". Um, in a few months or so it is coming out for playstation and xbox. So, yeah... it IS a console game.

    My biggest concerns, as I have stated in the past, is about the fact that it has been stated in the past that "you can play Elder Scrolls Online however you want". This article tells you, almost point blank, that you can't actually do this. Firstly, the entire zone is crafted around 4 man groups. Not just the instances or trials, but the ENTIRE ZONE. If you like small groups or solo play, this content is not for you. Secondly, the article states that in each battle of the trial you will have to change out your selections of skills and possibly weapons. Again, forcing you to do things you might not want to. Making the trials a challenge is one thing, but this looks to me like the trials were made specifically to challenge the "professional raid guilds", a small portion of any community.

    Don't get me wrong. The scenes look beautiful and it sounds like a lot of hard work went into it. I, however, will NOT be visiting Craglorn, so no matter how much work and effort went into it, I will not be appreciating it as my own style of play has been purposely excluded.

    Better luck with the next add-on. Maybe it won't be as divisive as this one is.


    p.s. - and you know.. I really wasn't going to post in this thread, as I have actually made my opinion heard in other threads on Craglorn before. *sigh*


    i agree with a lot of what you said.
    Edited by fyrefenix on April 28, 2014 1:06AM
    Natjur ✭✭✭
    4:24PM
    There is currently only two classes in this game, DK and Sorcs.
    Templar's and NB are just 'extras' that have not been removed yet.
  • Roneth
    Roneth
    ✭✭✭✭
    Zenimax, please keep the content very difficult.
  • fyrefenix
    fyrefenix
    ✭✭✭
    i wanted to now add my own comments and concerns.

    i like the idea of new content, don't get me wrong. id rather see more quests gold or experience come from new content. if these elitest type players can do this dungeon and get lots of great gear. then i feel my time spent crafting and making gold and buying and hunting racial motiffs was a monumental waste of my time and efforts. not to mention if you make it too difficult not everyone will be able to complete it. then also you must realize dungeons like this have a strong chance to create elite only guilds that only some people can join and achieve victory and that is so World of Warcraft its not even funny... i like the game how it is already! add more quests with added realism to the events more exploration, pvp and class balance, and a lot less bots, destroy the bots and ban them.

    okay i expressed my opinion there i said it.

    and if craglorn and other dungeons confirm my fears ill be sad

    i truly enjoy the questing the voice acted npcs and i really enjoy the story and lore. after talking with my guild mates maybe im overly concerned, in order to run an mmo it must appeal in many ways to many people. i will continue to support and subscribe to ESO, Zenimax and Bethesda
    Edited by fyrefenix on April 28, 2014 1:06AM
    Natjur ✭✭✭
    4:24PM
    There is currently only two classes in this game, DK and Sorcs.
    Templar's and NB are just 'extras' that have not been removed yet.
  • Kimyrielle
    Kimyrielle
    ✭✭
    I don't mind hard stuff being in the game, but I don't know why most MMO designers seem think that hard stuff is the only thing I want to do when I reach max level. The way Craglorn is being pitched mainly in the "designed for the best of the best" way, you wonder what they expect the large rest of us to do that's not a part of the "best of the best" (or even has any desire to be). Many of my friends find even the current group dungeons and Veteran level content to be borderline unenjoyable already. Is it so hard to understand that people play these games for a myriad of reasons, some to be challenged, but some to be just entertained by a good story and exploration? And that the second type of people want something meaningful to do with our maxed-out characters, too?
    In the end, while I am completely happy to book Craglorn under the "that's not meant for me!" category and leave it to the hardcore players to enjoy, I hope that the devs plan to add more relaxed content on a regular basis, too. I have left so many MMOs because of that "endgame" thing, I wish one day it will get another meaning for me than "end of the game". Just my two cents.
  • lotharlocnar_ESO
    In the days of table top games we as GMs/DMs had a little thing called level loss or level draining from actions/creatures etc. If I ran a game meant to challenge levels 1-20 and one or 2 in the party hit 20th level while the others were at level 15 or 13 etc. I would simply have the higher levels fight a level drainer or have a trap that drained levels target those higher levels. May the MMO games should institute these techniques. End game is always fraught with dangers the "normal" average levels wouldn't try to engage. This is why MMOs come out with additional content for high level areas. and normally increase the level cap. Hitting the level cap "too quickly" indicates the difficulty is not on par with player abilities as a whole. If only 1-2% of players hit the cap then it is acceptable and not a real problem except for that 1-2%...lol Unfortunately time is the mitigating factor in MMOs. If Im retired and play 12-14 hrs. a day I will eventually hit level cap b4 my work/school going friends will. That has nothing to do with the game being too easy or difficult. MMOs are only "won" by being in the first percentage of players to level cap their toons. Winning is only subjective however and a lot of players enjoy the totality of the lore and game in the 3-4 hrs. a day they can play. Adding the new content will open up areas to "slow" the higher levels from level capping and or item acquisition that shows off their abilities.I guess there will always be those players that have the best of the best items from most all levels they played through as others will have skill capped all if not most skills and make in game money more than others. Some will have roleplayed their characters and written logs of adventures and stories their character and friends enjoyed and continue enjoying.Hey there's an idea, maybe this MMO can create a log page for character adventures and roleplaying descriptions.Then have judges that have degrees in writing composition as well as playwrights vote on a monthly basis which group/character did the best and give away prizes for good roleplay and contextual character endeavors.:)
    "No moment of despair is so great it cannot be overcome by a fifth of good bourbon and a beautiful woman in black seamed stockings and 6-inch stiletto heels."
  • Ashbo
    Ashbo
    Soul Shriven
    This is exciting!
    AshboUserbar2_zps7671156a.png
  • Biggs
    Biggs
    I hope you have an experienced group of exploiters testing this as well.
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