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Official Discussion Thread for "Creating ESO: Trials"

  • Nina
    Nina
    Looks great, thanks for showing us, guy.

    Though first do I hope the game will let me level in proper dungeons so I can re-subscribe and get to experience Craglorn.

    Death Recap sounds like a brilliant thing. Well done.
    Edited by Nina on April 24, 2014 1:10AM
  • Eccentric
    Eccentric
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    I am wondering though.

    Will you be going for a certain tank/healer/dps setup for trials?

    I mean, would you be able to complete the trials with only DPS using potions and some healing abilities. Would it be viable to try dodge most of the abilities and do speedrun with DPS only, or will you go for a variation in needed setups. Will there be some bosses with 1 tank required, while another would require 3?

    Since you can change weapons/skillset during the fight, it would actually be really cool if you had to change your setup during the fights. Like if some phases would require 3 tanks, while another only need 1 tank while the DPS requirement would alot higher. You could even have a phase where everyone need to swap to healing to outheal something dying, like a NPC.

    However you do it, it should push the players to think about what kind of setups they should run with for each boss.
  • Krodhameyer
    Krodhameyer
    Soul Shriven
    So the moment someone brings up crafting, we no longer get any answers back?
  • Reinmard
    Reinmard
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    So much whining... Im a fan of TEs and I ve played TES since arena and yes, TESO is different from the elder scrolls saga, but it seems people dont give a *** about the difference between sandbox-singleplayer, RPG-online, and a MMO, this is a mmo. Deal with it or leave. :D
    And yes, I would have prefered TES:6 than this, but I still love TESO
    Edited by Reinmard on April 24, 2014 2:50AM
  • Argoth
    Argoth
    Soul Shriven
    They've talked about crafting and raiding balances so many times before. It doesn't really need to be restated over and over the second they post pve raid based content.

    Off the top of my head, both have unique strengths and needs to help one another. Crafting stations will have their own set bonuses that PVE drops won't offer and vise versa (Night mothers for example is a crafted only set I'm highly interested in as a melee dps). PVE set drops (at least currently) drop at epic tiers and require crafters to take them to legendary.

    Both will require and compliment one another without making the other obsolete. Will there be individual pieces that are stronger at times? Maybe. But as a whole I think its a great system so far in the current state.

  • misterlee
    misterlee
    I think it's a shame that the developers are spending a lot of time and effort making content for the game while the totally incompetent CS staff are screwing it up so badly it's making people quit. I've been blocked by broken quests for 9 days now and all they can suggest is 'have you tried turning it off and on again' (i.e. logging in and out again).
    It's shameful how one department can make the work of another department a waste of time, because I'll never get to see the new stuff due to CS's inability to spawn a quest on my character.
  • Attorneyatlawl
    Attorneyatlawl
    Community Ambassador
    dagnome wrote: »
    So, if I read correctly, does this mean that the very best items will no longer be crafted by players, but looted off of the Trial bosses?
    My concern as well, I was under the impression that Crafted items will ultimately be better than most found items though I can understand getting epic items from very successful trial runs.

    They aren't and haven't been for a long time now. Virtually all main set bonuses are found on dropped gear or pvp-bag gear, and boss-dropped-from-dungeon weapons have higher base damage than crafted ones of the same quality (and upgrade accordingly with quality). Add in that you can't craft rings or necklaces, and there only being a handful of set bonuses worth anything from crafting, and it's been extremely biased towards non-craftable items (in many cases even VR1-5 items instead of VR10!) being the best, pretty much always has been.

    -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent. =P
    Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!

    -Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
    -Order of Mundus, Nightfighters, LoM, and Mostly Harmless founding member, "DPS: We Deliver."
    ________________
    -In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.
  • MartinXKid
    MartinXKid
    ✭✭✭
    Everything about it is awesome !! I always loved large group fighting of 10-20 players (24 players is too much in my opinion. All I see are flashes everywhere).
    I see the point of needing to form a group of raiders and of PvP but I still need that personal and rich reward from doing so.
    Doing battles with a dozen of other players is Epic, no doubt about it, but the reward of the battle should be worth my while to do so like a unique craftable armor layout, titles, skills and (most commonly from other MMOs) mounts unlocked.
    I want something that I couldn't have if I wasn't part of a dedicated group trying to beat a time threshold. So far, the only thing that attracts me to do Trials are the large combat and Soul Reservoir challenge which don't get me wrong is extremely awesome but to simply say "Yeah I've done it" after I've completed it isn't appealing enough to me. I want something from kicking those bosses arses !!

    In short, I love this and will still absolutely explore and defeat this Celestial Warrior and his army !! I just would of loved it more if I got something out of it other than more loot.
    Craglorn, here I come !!
    Edited by MartinXKid on April 24, 2014 5:39AM
    "War ..... War never changes"
  • KerinKor
    KerinKor
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    Assuming the playerbase here is the same as elsewhere I see much angst, anger and a generally toxic community developing as the 'hardcore' min/maxers dictate the builds, skills and gear requirements and deride the 'casuals'.

    Seriously, all MMO end-game content is like this and this one seems even more prone to generating that kind of 'community' when it rewards speedruns .. see FFXIV V2 for the dire community results speedruns cause in a game which doesn't actually reward the speed run per se .. as well as penalising deaths .. expect large-scale /kick (and if there isn't a /kick feature then expect massive QQ demanding such a feature).

    Sorry to be entirely negative, this is content that I'll never see anyway as I detest 'raiding' with a passion (and hope the next content update is designed for people like me, non-raiders, who are in all MMOs the majority), but ZOS, like Square Enix and others before them, seem to have ignored the 'human nature' of many MMO end-gamers .. Hell, we see it around here already with those who deride the Doshia nerf and those players who were unable to beat that fight as released.

    On paper the content looks great and even I could be tempted, but the reality will be so different.
    Edited by KerinKor on April 24, 2014 6:48AM
  • Eccentric
    Eccentric
    ✭✭✭
    MartinXKid wrote: »
    I just would of loved it more if I got something out of it other than more loot.

    Maybe we will be granted another 10 slots of bagspace if we defeat him!!
    Huehuehuehue
  • KerinKor
    KerinKor
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    Lanlin wrote: »
    I absolutely cannot understand why minutes after awesome content is revealed there is always people that bring up irrational concerns..
    Because as I noted in my post, every other MMO in existence tells us how this is going to turn out and as I also pointed out, some features will exacerbate the situation and the guld between the 'hardcore' and 'casuals' that is inevitably going to develop.

    The fact that some people's first reaction is to worry themselves over whether Boss gear or crafted gear will be better shows that for some the challenge of new content isn't the issue, it's what their phat lewt looks like and whether the 'casuals' will be able to get it 'on a silver platter': I'm waiting for the first post to contain that meme, it's a regular feature of the other MMO fora I visit.

    Edited by KerinKor on April 24, 2014 7:01AM
  • KerinKor
    KerinKor
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    Solthour wrote: »
    Willow wrote: »
    I am very happy for those the enjoy grouping. I do look forward to a future update for explorers and those that tend to solo a bit more than group.

    Craglorn is a whole area that offers Solo exploration I thought it's just the instances there that require a 12 man group.
    I have seen nothing which says there's solo content in it, ZOS' comments talk about group content only.
    Edited by KerinKor on April 24, 2014 6:59AM
  • RustedZombie
    RustedZombie
    Soul Shriven
    This may have been answered in a post and I missed it but, are these zones going to be open pvp like cyrodiil, or will the alliances get to work together to complete trials?

    Has a release date been set?
    Edited by RustedZombie on April 24, 2014 7:04AM
  • jackalpup83b14_ESO
    i really like this idea. Trials sound fun, i like having penalties for death. i don't really like having leaderboards for this, however. i agree that i think this will cause elitest behaviors to start happening after the newness wears off in the first month of release. if people are going to be serious and want the prizes associated with awesome runs, they won't want any scrub in their group to possibly mess it up for them. of course there will be exceptions and casuals who just want to check it out, but i think they will be hard to find.

    also, it would be amazingly super awesome and really make this game perfect if this leads the way to 12 v 12 PvP battlegrounds.

    if the game does trials, they must like to reward us for skill. if they like to reward us for skill, small scale BGs are the way to go after they fix the current bugs and work out trials. (i hope!)

    i can totally see them using some of the programming for trials to work up some BGs. <3
  • Visur
    Visur
    So, death recap working in Cyrodiil… nice !
    I'm hopping we will get more and more information about death/kills in PvP and even the return of the kill spam event. =)
  • Glissando
    Glissando
    ✭✭✭
    That's awesome! But i'd really like to see my NB's skills working first :neutral_face:
  • soalrism
    soalrism
    ✭✭
    So, if I read correctly, does this mean that the very best items will no longer be crafted by players, but looted off of the Trial bosses?

    the best items by now are also dropped items and not the crafted ones, but like now you will have to upgrade and glyph it by yourself... so the very best items now & then: dropped and made better with crafting. so no change.
  • Laura
    Laura
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't really understand WHY the best gear would be crafted. Then there would be no reason to really go out and do much its exactly why I don't craft in skyrim. There should be a balance of needing both to keep the economy thumping and getting people actually playing the game.

    That said this looks fantastic and I can't wait to sink my teeth into it.
  • Lord_Solous
    Lord_Solous
    Soul Shriven
    Crafted hooded cloaks. That is all I want
  • ElChristo
    ElChristo
    ✭✭✭
    I agree with pretty much everything @Lanlin‌ said.

    With the exception of Cyrodiil (which anyone can easily join and participate in without any scheduling) the game so far for me has been 95% solo-able.

    "Play the way YOU want". Well I want to play in a large group environment against an extremely difficult enemy.

    Again 95% of my PVE experience has been completely solo. So heaven forbid the developers might cater for the so called "Elitist Minority". Even though these group adventure zones have been talked about for months prior to release.

    In response to the comment saying something like "If you want competitiveness join PVP.". At the risk of sounding like a horrible Elitist. PVP in these types of games are like rock, paper, scissors. A certain race/class/build combo can always trump another.

    But when players are pitted against an automated system. The same mechanics, encounter, environment, for everyone. Then that's a test of skill. The people at the top of those timed leader boards can truly be called the best.

    It seems like the majority of PVP rewards including the coveted "Emperor" title aren't awarded for the players with the best skill, but to who can stay in Cyrodiil the longest.

    But if these competitive features aren't your thing, then those types of players shouldn't bother you.


    Just one final thing. I'm a solo player. I pug the occasional dungeon. But almost all of my game time is spent on my own. My /played time says I've played about 7-8 hours a day since early access and I've not even finished my factions area yet.

    I'm thoroughly enjoying solo questing. But when it comes to new content, and big bad bosses. I want it to be in a large group environment.

    Please, no spoilers in case it's in the main quest line. But I hope in order to defeat Mannimarco or Molag Bal, you need to be in a group. Even if it's just a 4 man.


    PS: Craglorn looks liek totez amazin.
  • Darzil
    Darzil
    ✭✭✭
    Love the idea of it.

    Always concerned about the best gear coming from the hardest content, personally. Reason being that the people able to do the hardest content don't need the best gear to do it, and if they are rewarded with the best gear for it trivialises the rest of the content.

    Really wish an MMO would go with rewards that didn't make the characters stronger for these achievements. In Kingdom of Loathing I've got some Silver Moons for being in the top several players over 3 month periods of challenges (and will probably never get the gold star for getting top), and that is enough to motivate players to try to be the best. (Hell, people would try even without them)

    Epic achievements - absolutely necessary. The best gear from them - just the way it's typically done and a balance nightmare.
  • Hrithmus
    Hrithmus
    ✭✭✭
    This is what MMO's do. They pull the bait and switch. Whats that? You spent 400k on crafting and 100+ hours getting to be a master Crafter? Sooooo sorry. You can only make tier III armor. Tier 4 is ONLY acquirable by beating the last boss on the 12 man raid.

    This same thing happened in Guild Wars 2 when they came out with ascended armor. I assume this game will be no different.
  • Viverim
    Viverim
    ✭✭
    You can also take this further. Raid gear becomes the best gear. Raiders all spend months getting it. Their items outlevel everyone else, which makes PvP horribly unbalanced, but also means that any challenge which non-raid guilds could face becomes laughably easy for them. They demand more challenging content with yet even better gear. It is given to them, making the imbalance even greater. Eventually, Cyrodill is filled with leet-raiders looking to gank non-raid geared people, which pretty much turns Cyrodil into a ghostland.

    In addition, the hours and hours spent developing new content by the developers is largely wasted on a large part of the player base, who are put off by forced grouping.

    Sounds like a great way to eventually shrink your player base, not grow it.

    Now, I personally don't mind if they want to make instances 4-man only. Go for it. What I would prefer is to make the zone itself more friendly to all, and keep the forced grouping content to the instances and trials. Further, make sure it is understood that PvP is pretty much a Raider's paradise, and if you don't raid, you are gimped by the system.

    I'm NOT a huge PvP fan, but in WoW the most fun I had was in the huge battles we had in the winter zone (I can't recall the name of the zone unfortunately... it's been a while). Cyrodil is very similar in nature to that, complete with keeps and castles to attack, but it sucks the fun right out of anything when you can be one-shot by a guy carrying a weapon dropped in a Raid that you have to start a second career to earn playing in a style that you absolutely loath.

    It has been stated by the devs that other add-on content will not be Adventure Zones. I am hopeful that this is true. Unfortunately I can't comment on future expansions which haven't been revealed, so I am left with looking at Craglorn instead. If/when future expansions are discussed, I'll be happy to see the direction in which they lead. Until that time, however, I remain very disappointed.
  • Hestia
    Hestia
    ✭✭✭
    Fix your major in game issues before releasing new content.
    <Alatreon> Daggerfall Covenant | International | PvX | Adult Community | TS3+Mic required.

    Recruitment Thread & Website
  • Audigy
    Audigy
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    ✭✭
    I absolutely cannot understand why minutes after awesome content is revealed there is always people that bring up irrational concerns.
    So you are concerned about "Elitism"? I personally wonder how this term has grown so much hate to its name in gaming environment. Isn't it completely usual that some people want to be better at what they are doing than others? And isn't it obvious that gaming shouldn't be different than any other activity on the globe you can participate in?
    Any kind of sports, any kind of job, love, whatever people do there is always some kind of competition involved. So why do people hate on players that choose gaming to be an "Elitist" in? It shouldn't even concern you. Can't you play soccer and enjoy playing it just because someone in Champions-League is doing better than you and earning lots of money by doing so?

    There is a difference that you just ignore.

    If I compete in our national championships, then you don't need to do the same right? You can just perform my sport casually and never ever need to practice every day or go on tournaments etc.

    If you marry a new women each year to break a record, then I don't need to do the same right? I can stick to one and be happy :)

    If you however are an Elitist and demand that I spent 8 hours raiding, that I install hundred´s of addons so you can break the current trial record, that I use a spec that improves my performance by 5% ... then this is a force. I don't have any option of doing it casually, you force everyone around you to be a professional player and this is Elitism.

    Look at wow raiding. It proves how bad Elitism has become in MMO gaming these days. A tiny % of the community dictates how everyone has to play. This is what I am talking about! Understood now?
    Then you complain about "Premades"?
    The whole point of playing an MMO once was to find a community or a group of players that share your own abitions and goals and to just have fun playing together. Why do people wish to alienate this general idea so badly? So do you truly enjoy partying with 11 other people who you have never seen before and will never see after just to see the content and then (probably) hate on the grouping tool if it did not party you with a bunch of pro-players in order to make the completion of the trial fit in your own personal timeschedule?
    I'm kinda getting a headache from thinking about this twisted logic...

    Its always fun arguing with someone who joined the MMO world with WOTLK ;) Anyways I will try my best.

    MMO´s never and I repeat, NEVER were about premades! The system of premades came with World of Warcraft. Before that it was totally normal to be a part of the community, to play with others and not only 9 or 13 chosen ones.

    In a community we helped the weak, we played together and accomplished something as a unit. This is what MMO´s stood for and how they worked before Blizzard changed that.

    I am a traditional MMO player, with many years of experience and for me it is part of the genre to actually meet players and play with them, even if they are strangers or not as skilled as I am. This is why I play an MMO, its a massively multiplayer online game and not a "single group online game".

    The benefit of traditional MMO´s always was that everyone was a part of the community and could contribute, the system that premade content has only works for exactly those - The Premades. Just look at wow, 90% of the players cant do any raid content as its hidden behind a wall of "premades only" and this aint good. The only reason that wow still has a few million subs is simple, people are attached to their chars and they don't want to leave.

    A new MMO however cant be tailored to only premade content, especially in an ESO environment. People wont be willing to stay if they cant experience the content.
    By the way, half of your last point is invalid because you obviously did not understand what you read right there... the other half... I will just refuse to comment on that.

    Insulting me wont give you any credibility, you act like all Elitist´s do if they have no valid arguments. You insult those that are right to cover up your own lack or argumentation.

    Well played!
  • Aaron_Spellcaster
    No matter what the playerbase will say on this, zenimax have shown us that in the end, our opinions does not matter. Pushing out new content, when not properly adressing game breaking issues, just shows the playerbase what we can expect of them in the future.
    Audigy wrote: »
    A few concerns:

    1. Elitism

    Those that played wow and other MMO´s who focused on raid content will know that specific people will tell other players how to play the game.

    If you want to play it your way, you are insulted and excluded from the content.
    Seeing that the adventure zone has a timer running, I am afraid the same Elitism might come up here.

    People so scared of not having the best time will harass everyone who in their opinion is guilty for their weak time. This will make the whole Adventure Zone inaccessible for players who believed in the TESO philosophy "play as you want".

    2. Premade

    As far I understand, those Adventure Zones are only for premades right? Its similar to heroic raids then or rated BG´s at wow. If you cant commit to a schedule of a guild, you are out as the grouping tool wont support it. How is ZO going to address that issue, or do you want to release content that only 5% of the players are able to see?

    3. Crafting

    When we bought TESO we were told that crafting is equal to raid gear. But now you say raid gear is the best in the game? So were we lied or how does this work out now?


    Don't get me wrong, the idea of an 8 hour lasting dungeon run sounds fun. It reminds me of the days when I used to play professional wow and we streamed our raids on TV stations around the world. Fact however is, who really has those 8 hours and the ability to form premades?

    In my opinion the idea is fun, but we will need protection from Elitism, a free to enter grouping tool and some solo content for those who refuse to group.

    Terran is a term used to refer to a hypothetical progenitor race that colonized New Eden prior to the collapse of the EVE Gate. Little is known about this race, though they left numerous artifacts across the cluster, including old stargates and the EVE Gate itself.
  • ravendt_ESO
    The Death Recap feature really isn't blowing any wind up my skirt. There are already addons that do this, and they do it way better (smaller, less obtrusive).

    Honestly, I'd rather see developmental efforts focused elsewhere.

    The recap feature is very reminiscent of League of Legends or Planetside 2. For a game that was developed with immersion in mind, this very much goes against that.

    Even though we may die a lot in PvP (AvA) or in private dungeons, I don't feel like I am playing a game that expects me to die a lot (one with respawn timers) such as LoL and PS2. In which case, I don't think this game warrants a "scoreboard" of sorts.

    Edit: Also, it looks like you're switching the default Wayshrine and Soul Gem resurrection keys. I would not be happy at all if this happens. All the people who have been playing thus far will be thoroughly confused and will be accidentally hitting the wrong buttons out of muscle memory.
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