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Once again ZOS Customer Relations drops the ball. (Mass Ban of Innocent Players)
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Slye44✭I feel bad that innocent folks have gotten caught up in this but at the same time I don't believe everyone claiming to be innocent actually is.
Likely not, but from the amount of threads on this subject, I can guarantee you more innocents got banned than dupers. Dupers don't come en masse and complain about getting banned.
I would have preferred a rollback to this.
I doubt that is the case but there is honestly no way that either of us can know for sure.
The circumstantial evidence is in favor of mass innocent bans.
For those that might know about the exploit in question, it came from double clicking too fast in a bank. How many people do you know who would be aware of that when it accidentally occurred, as it will for so many? It stands to reason that "innocent" as defined by "not intending to exploit the system" would include these people...who most certainly were banned by any automated means.
There is significant posted claims that anyone who had the bank bug was banned. I haven't seen one posting from someone with the bank bug who was not also banned. Granted my sample space is small, but this adds up the evidence tally.
There are also confirmed reports of people falling through the world and then getting banned for that:
http://mmofallout.com/elder-scrolls-online-fall-through-world-and-get-banned/
Given the evidence, a scientific assessment would conclude that there are likely a good percentage of the bans that are innocent at the very least.
To keep discussions civil, I will agree to ignore all comments that fit the following criteria:
- "If zenimax banned you, you must have been cheating"
- "Anything zenimax does is wrong and everyone is innocent".
Both these extreme viewpoints are noise.
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Eivar✭✭✭✭I'm primarily pissed about being banned for something I didn't do, no notice no notification, no admission there might have been a problem, all i can see is repeated customer abuse, and if that keeps up a dead game.2 -
Etchesketch✭✭✭✭BenjaminKacher_ESO wrote: »You guys realize anyone affected by the bug that removed bank slots (and also sent you dupe promo items) got banned right? Because the game sent you dupe items ... you (and me) got banned from the game.
[/i] Team
sorry but this isn't true.
The number one rule of online gaming is now and has always been, Never play on Patch Day.1 -
And can someome please direct me to what they are talking about when it comes to the "EXPLOIT". What is the exploit? Where do i read about it? couse i seriously have no clue....
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Tweek✭✭✭TurkeyBurgers wrote: »By the nine divines you have done it!
You have closed the gates of dupelivion!
Fixed cause u dun goofed.
TALOS IS A DIVINE!
EDIT: +AwesomeEdited by Tweek on April 18, 2014 10:06PM2 -
Putok✭✭✭I don't even care that much about the unannounced downtime. Stuff happens, and the downtime has always been to repair fairly catastrophic bugs.
The lack of communication and the CS robots are what blow my mind. There are some absolutely MASSIVE issues with the game, and we have yet to see a simple "State of the Game" type address.
I haven't seen a substantial mea culpa, nor have I seen a terribly proactive approach to attacking many gamebreaking bugs.0 -
Draconiuos✭✭✭
interesting theory but wrong. I got the bank bug I was not banned. I bought my extra slots back, because no one told me not to.BenjaminKacher_ESO wrote: »You guys realize anyone affected by the bug that removed bank slots (and also sent you dupe promo items) got banned right? Because the game sent you dupe items ... you (and me) got banned from the game.
So yeah... glad I got that bug causing me to lose 30k + items + bank slots to get a 2nd monkey that caused me to get banned a week later. But hey, atleast they claim to have fixed that bug in this last patch... so when this ban gets reversed I'll be able to buy bank slots... except i was told not to
"In the mean time, we ask that you please refrain from purchasing more bank slots as they may interfere with the restoration process. We have had some success with the previous patch where some player's items have been returned, and we hope for more success in the next one." - Rin The Elder Scrolls Online Team
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RianaTheBosmer✭✭✭Agreed. I've had the game crash on me. Is this the reason? Who knows. They aren't saying anything at all. So screwed up, ZOS. You're going to lose a lot of players. I played SWTOR for 2 years and I have never been banned. I also play GW2, TSW etc, never been banned but two weeks after the game comes out and I get banned for doing nothing wrong.
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Eivar✭✭✭✭Yeah fine for you people who haven't been banned to say stuff like "contact support" but their support is pathetic, 8 times I have contacted support for other issues since release and NOT ONCE have they EVER replied. I have had to sort it out myself every time with help from the community but for me to be PERMA BANNED for ??????????????? is BULLSH#T. If they are going to keep doing this kind of thing then improve your support!!!!!!
Your email must be blocking their messages. I've put 3 tickets in and every one was responded to within a few hours.
I have yet to receive any email confirmation myself about this ban, but i've received confirmation emails from reporting gold sellers in game and the like, and my forum account just dinged to level 2, got an email about that. Definately not getting filtered out.2 -
TurkeyBurgers wrote: »By the nine divines you have done it!
You have closed the gates of dupelivion!
Fixed cause u dun goofed.
TALOS IS A DIVINE!
EDIT: +Awesome
Who is this Talos with which you speak of? Some time traveler from a future realm?
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4
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Please send out mails giving more information about the suspensions and up the support of the game. I think many of us would like to rightfully appeal our suspensions.2
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Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think people need to understand one thing.
You don't necessarily need to be banned today because of the exploit, it could have a totally different reason but today their ban wave stroke as it was necessary to get rid of those who used the bug in the past 24 hours.
Game companies usually ban in waves, they collect the data of several weeks and then ban everyone on the list. You might feel innocent now as you didn't use the bank bug, but maybe you did something a while ago?
It can be as simple as selling bites, trading with a gold seller, being part of a guild where the bank was abused and you took stuff that was previously duped by your guild mates, harassing someone in a dungeon, doing false reports...
I learned one thing in over 15 years of online gaming. Nobody is really innocent, people just measure their own behavior in a different way and often don't know they did wrong.
If you feel that your ban is wrong, you have every right to complain at the support guys that manage the accounts. This forum here however, is the wrong place for it.
I'm sorry but that's complete ***, yes people always think they are innocent, but really? selling bites is not against TOS, I revile gold sellers and their effect on in game currency inflation, i don't harass people, i just play the game....and as far as taking something from the guild bank that someone else duped, unless you know specifically that they did how does that make you "guilty" it's amazing what some people will rationalize.
As for the 'this is the wrong place to do it" this is a forum, a customer service forum........they make this forum for customer service issues......gee like getting wrongfully banned......maybe!
As a future advice,
don't be in a guild where people dupe or you don't know what they really do. You are easily trapped as one of their "friends" and then be banned. Same with Addons, people often use them without even asking if they are legit. Also selling bites is against the rules, its what gold sellers do.
Many players just do things without actually being aware of the consequences. They just do, because everyone does. There was a case at wow few years ago, where people used that addon and were banned, thousands of them. Others were banned for win trading in Arena etc.
In my opinion it is every players own responsibility to check your environment in a game. Only trade if you know the trade is legit, only join a guild and use the bank if you know the stuff is legit, only use addons that are approved by the support and don't do such stuff like selling bits, runs or whatever ...
I know it suxx to be suspicious on everyone you meet in a game, but that's sadly how it is today. Not only in games but also RL.
Stone Cold once said "DTA - don't trust anybody".
I never was banned in a game, but I also think twice - maybe an advice for the future.
That said, this doesn't change the situation for those however who had duplicate pre order items after receiving them a few times. They are indeed victims here and I hope they get help soon.2 -
Eivar✭✭✭✭driesvvb16_ESO wrote: »Please send out mails giving more information about the suspensions and up the support of the game. I think many of us would like to rightfully appeal our suspensions.
You can appeal at:
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/ask
I already submitted mine like 2 hours ago at this point.0 -
Dolenz✭✭✭I feel bad that innocent folks have gotten caught up in this but at the same time I don't believe everyone claiming to be innocent actually is.
Likely not, but from the amount of threads on this subject, I can guarantee you more innocents got banned than dupers. Dupers don't come en masse and complain about getting banned.
I would have preferred a rollback to this.
I doubt that is the case but there is honestly no way that either of us can know for sure.
The circumstantial evidence is in favor of mass innocent bans.
Yes, the circumstantial evidence suggests that but we are looking at data that is going to skew that opinion. They could have banned 10 guilty for every 1 innocent but those who are guilty and know they were caught doing something wrong are not likely to complain on the forums.0 -
I feel bad that innocent folks have gotten caught up in this but at the same time I don't believe everyone claiming to be innocent actually is.
Likely not, but from the amount of threads on this subject, I can guarantee you more innocents got banned than dupers. Dupers don't come en masse and complain about getting banned.
I would have preferred a rollback to this.
I doubt that is the case but there is honestly no way that either of us can know for sure.
The circumstantial evidence is in favor of mass innocent bans.
Yes, the circumstantial evidence suggests that but we are looking at data that is going to skew that opinion. They could have banned 10 guilty for every 1 innocent but those who are guilty and know they were caught doing something wrong are not likely to complain on the forums.
That may be very true, but banning thousands of innocent people in the first month of a games life is a very bad situation to get into. This is made worse by the likelihood that a large amount of these people were potentially banned by a bug in the game (bank resets).
I honestly feel that whilst people can rejoice that the guilty were banned, the community should be rising up to ensure that Zenimax do not ban players for their bugs. Because any of us could be caught in the crossfire next time.
There is no justification for a situation like this ever, and I have certainly never encountered anything like it. We can all work around bugs with quests, but there is no working around a perma ban for nothing.
Edited by l-wilson-1986b16_ESO on April 18, 2014 10:21PM3 -
Kilitar✭I am reporting ZENIMAX programmer responsible for Bank Bug. First, due his incompetence I got my bank slots deleted multiple times with stored golds and items. Then related to this bug he sent me imperial content (pets, maps, ring of mara) multiple times and did not tell me he DUPPED these items. Al was reported in tickets.
Now my accunt got suspended because of that skilled programmer I have dupped pets and mara rings in my account.
Great Job ZOS!5 -
If a customer support forum isn't the place to get customer support...um...what is this forum for?2
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Vodkaphile✭✭✭I feel bad that innocent folks have gotten caught up in this but at the same time I don't believe everyone claiming to be innocent actually is.
Likely not, but from the amount of threads on this subject, I can guarantee you more innocents got banned than dupers. Dupers don't come en masse and complain about getting banned.
I would have preferred a rollback to this.
Cheaters consistently complain about being banned and profess innocence. That said, I have never in my MMO career seen this sort of outcry, which leads me to believe a large portion of the people complaining are being honest.
I've also never seen such a silent dev team. It's kind of odd.
Blizzard had like 50 pages of threads when they did the huge ban wave like 4 years ago for people running the BG scripts and no-clip script for farming resources. It happens. Some innocents might have been caught in the struggle though.
I love this game, and love the potential it has, but somebody, ANYBODY has to give Zenimax a divine intervention when it comes to customer service.1 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭you all whine and complain about being banned, But I know, and you know, that you likely exploited the duping bug and now your in the position you are. Zenimax seems quite aware.
^ I suggest everyone who is awaiting an overturn of a False suspension prepare to send Veracruz a screenshot of their character After it is Overturned - proving that we were Not involved in any such activity.
We're talking about Zenimax here.
And in case you missed it, this is not the First mass ban - go back to the previous one and look at how many threads there were.
I only saw 2 people claiming to be innocent.
2... out of Thousands.
Now look at today's wave - 3/4 of the posts made in the last 3 hours are people wanting to know why the heck they're suspended.
Some legitimately banned players are likely to claim it was unjust, true - but these numbers clearly indicate something else entirely.3 -
LadyChaos✭✭✭✭alexandm83 wrote: »And can someome please direct me to what they are talking about when it comes to the "EXPLOIT". What is the exploit? Where do i read about it? couse i seriously have no clue....TOS wrote:http://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms_us
Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or virtual currency/items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;
If you are referring to THE specifics, I believe a couple mentioned some details in this thread but tbh, it's against TOS to post details in forums as it's part of promoting an exploit by teaching people how to do it.
I'm sorry for the guys who got banned wrongly, and those who participated in the exploit unintentionally a single time, but I do not think people who had a couple "oops" double clicks were banned, it seems like the software had to reach some threshold level to be flagged.
Aside from those who triggered the exploit detection software from unforeseen events like one mentioned in this thread, there is usually something that triggers the threshold, not just one random double click.
I hope you guys with sincere grievances get cleared up via CS soon so we can get back to playing with you, the rest, best wishes but don't let the door hit you. It's not my place to judge who is who.VR2 Ataxia - [NA] Veteran Dominion Sorcerer [Auriel's Bow]
PvP, PvE, Crafting, and General Shenanigans
Sorcery and Mayhem online since 1999
Current PvP Class/Supernatural Census2 -
Gadgetz✭
What about us that get 1 day a week or 2 to play? Fri/sat are my days. I cant play friday now.Mass bans are better then nothing. I'm happy about it and i guess there will be much more people crying about beiing innocent then they are.
For everyone else: Really sorry about your ban. But i guess contacting the support if innocent will just solve the problem within 24 hours.
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Maestro_Sartori✭✭✭This is absolutely outrageous, mass bans, forums blowing up over wrongful bans, not one word from ZOS. This seems to be their constant philosophy towards dealing with problems, say nothing, destroy all good wil the actual fans of the game have, drive away business, seriously are you guys trying to destroy your own company by making sure everyone gets pissed and gives up on a game with serious potential?
How do you know they were all innocent?
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Eivar✭✭✭✭Someone just pointed out to me, that with this being a holiday weekend, we should expect a 4 day wait on our tickets.....fantastic.1
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Draconiuos✭✭✭you all whine and complain about being banned, But I know, and you know, that you likely exploited the duping bug and now your in the position you are. Zenimax seems quite aware.
^ I suggest everyone who is awaiting an overturn of a False suspension prepare to send Veracruz a screenshot of their character After it is Overturned - proving that we were Not involved in any such activity.
We're talking about Zenimax here.
And in case you missed it, this is not the First mass ban - go back to the previous one and look at how many threads there were.
I only saw 2 people claiming to be innocent.
2... out of Thousands.
Now look at today's wave - 3/4 of the posts made in the last 3 hours are people wanting to know why the heck they're suspended.
Some legitimately banned players are likely to claim it was unjust, true - but these numbers clearly indicate something else entirely.
The issue is when banning for duped items you have to ban everyone involved even if they didn't realize they were involved, because they end up tracking the items themselves. Therefore what his mass of people claiming to be innocent shows us is the duping problem was larger than we thought. The duped items were everywhere.
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Slye44✭I'm sorry for the guys who got banned wrongly, and those who participated in the exploit unintentionally a single time, but I do not think people who had a couple "oops" double clicks were banned, it seems like the software had to reach some threshold level to be flagged.
Isn't this an assumption on your part?
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Eivar✭✭✭✭Maestro_Sartori wrote: »This is absolutely outrageous, mass bans, forums blowing up over wrongful bans, not one word from ZOS. This seems to be their constant philosophy towards dealing with problems, say nothing, destroy all good wil the actual fans of the game have, drive away business, seriously are you guys trying to destroy your own company by making sure everyone gets pissed and gives up on a game with serious potential?
How do you know they were all innocent?
Do I know every single person banned was innocent of course not, but I know for a fact I haven't done anything wrong, and yet here I am. So it follows that if I did nothing wrong and got banned, then others must have too, so assuming this was a mass ban, they banned a lot of innocent people as well as guilty.
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Chaotx✭Wow, just wow...
It wasn't enough for Zenimax to throw out a shoddily put together mass ban that is punishing many innocent people. They also perfectly timed it so that it hit right as many people are starting to get home from work on a Friday.
I take my hat off to you Zenimax you are a classy company.3
