The wider implications of large scale duping

  • wideboarnub18_ESO
    Admittedly I find this pretty frustrating as a more casual player who even has issues using some addons. Exploiters need the ban hammer hard.
    The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer.
  • Fennec
    Fennec wrote: »
    Idiot's, zenimax can look through the guild history logs, even you can look through the guild history logs of what has been withdrawed and depoisted in the guild bank.

    The dupers will get banned soon enough, and the items/gold will be deleted for 50 to 60%. Maybe not everything, but atleast a huge amount of it.

    1/10 you haven't read the entire op.

    On topic:

    The secondary beneficiaries and the already spent stuff is most likely unable to be traced.

    Suppose someone duped and traded their friend a stack of Rosin and 100k gold. The friend then went on to upgrade his gear and use the gold on advancing his profession, or buying siege weapons.

    How do you track that?

    Suppose someone did this via second account, how do you track that?

    Suppose someone did this over 4 links, how do you track that?

    I've read it, all I'm saying is that dupers can be found easily for zenimax with the guild history.

    For the rollback, definitely a no go. Duping items to destroy the economy and fun in pve and pvp is one thing. But destroying anyone's progress they have made in those 1/2 months just because a certain amount of people abused the bug by doing a complete rollback. Is another horrible thing.

    Which zenimax will never do, no company would do that. The only thing they can do is to ban those people, destroy the items and ban more people. If you think you can fix things just by doing a rollback to the start, then you're an idiot for suggesting it.

    Just another example, you get rich in real life because you worked so hard all these years, you have a family, 2 kids and a damn cute dog.

    Now after 25 years or so someone abused the system from the beginning somehow and god/president/your mom the creator of you world said "you know what? let's do a rollback from the start because some people abused the system"

    All your hard work gone, family gone, your damn cute dog gone.

    So no, doing a rollback is idiotic.

    Edited by Fennec on April 18, 2014 3:31PM
  • AhPook_Is_Here
    A rollback is too much; ban all the dupers, ban everyone the dupers traded with where the trade did not consist of a fair "thing for thing" exchange (a gift), ban everyone who received a gift, then gifted it to someone else (the next party accepted the gift without providing something near market value for the item) and carry that out 6-7 steps till everyone has been banned who profited from this.

    If that encompasses to large of a percentage of the player base, ban the dupers, and roll back the recipients to 0 deleting all their items.

    None of those actions should be beyond forensic database analysis.
    -Unknown American
  • SybleyStarfire
    How infuriating! I have been working hard to level my crafts and earn gold the honest way; while others cheat and skate right passed me. Perma ban these unethical jerks. I'm sure they can see who has exploited this dupe bug. Don't make ME roll back and do everything again!! I'm willing to bet that if a mass roll back is done - they will lose a lot of subscribers. Especially if they hear that Zenimax knew about this bug but didn't bother to address it.

    I love the game itself but am always nervous about its stability and how Zenimax will manage things. I am steadily losing confidence. All games have problems at startup; but this is by far the worst I've ever experienced. I don't think that Zenimax understands PC MMOs or the MMO's gamer community.

    We are already facing veterans in Cyrodiil and I'm pretty sure they are twinked out. I have a feeling I will only participate the first month or so in campaigns and only when there is a huge group to fight with. Soon more twinked out cheaters with hacked skills will arrive and it will be impossible to find a fair fight there.

    I don't understand what satisfaction these cheats get from "winning" when you hacked or cheated with dupe bugs to obtain gear. There is nothing to be proud of or feel good about. And they do . . . its a sad commentary about their emotional makeup.

  • Ravasz
    Soul Shriven
    I find the lack of Zenimax Staff presence in this topic disturbing...
  • shadyjane62
    otomodachi wrote: »
    There is an element to every MMO that is subscription based, an element that is defining and valiantly defended by all its supporters - the Longevity.

    What happened in this Guild Bank duping Fiasco might very well be killer for a large amount of people for these things. To understand this you need to understand all the large scale elements that make a game gain longevity - and the effects of possible large scale duping has on them.

    PVP Progression
    This one is easy. VR players with full legendary sets and ill-gotten gains from duping will dominate and have massive advantage over normal people for until the next expansion to come. This also connects to indirect beneficiarys from this incidents and, even to a lesser extent, to the PvE side of the fiaso - more on that later.

    Unfair advantage like this is killer for a competitive system like this.

    PVE Progression
    People with gains from the duping might very well already have the best equipment in the game, and might very well have steamrolled through the veteran and dungeon content by now because they could bypass the balance element of this entirely - by the use of full legendary sets and enchantments when the game clearly wasn't balanced for people to have that. Future content, once released, will be a blitz for these people too - as it will not be and is not balanced on you having to have the very best gear to get there.

    Crafting Skills
    Wether it be buying items to deconstruct or duping the materials to craft stuff outright - people can entirely bypass crafting progression with the duping of items and gold.

    Secondary Beneficators
    These people will be extremly hard to track and some of them will even be unknowing of their status, and the effects they cause on the game is just as bad.

    As solution I can really only see them doing a complete rollback to before the bug existed for everyone, that meaning, since this is apparently a bug since closed beta, a complete relaunch.

    I just want to point out the bigger issue is duped seige equipment. As someone is inevitably going to roll in and point this out because they only read the OP, I wonder if you'd consider adding this to that part. :) Legendary player gear isn't that big a boost, it's a boost, but the consensus from what *I* have personally seen on other forums is that the seige EQ is the big dealbreaker. And enchanting skill levels.
    I never understood why people needed so much gold in game until I saw prices of siege equipment. Now I don't even want to enter my pvp because my campaign is so far ahead and dominating I'm afraid they had to have used bogus gold for winning.

  • Ravasz
    Soul Shriven
    Unfortunately PvP is ruined by this, so I'll entirely skip it until (if it ever going to get fixed)... but then why the *** I play ESO? If I wanted to play pve only, I'd play Skyrim...
  • epoling
    So, if I read this correctly, only one side in PvP can do the duping? It gives an unfair advantage because only one side in any given campaign is able to use these bugs to their advantage? Otherwise the whole PvP thing is moot. There are going to be enough cheaters on all sides that should even things out. Cheating may be bad, but I don't understand the logic that it is only confined to whoever is winning in this situation.

    As far as PvE, well, as long as the devs scale thing for average players, not the folks who cheated, what difference does it make? So they get the Breastplate of Shiny Goodness a day or two before you, so what? It seems more like a matter of somebody being jealous that they might not be the first to get something.

    Does it matter if they don't need to craft? Have you looked at the way this game works? Crafting is great for those who want to do it but if you don't, there is not a real reason to do so. Join a good guild with crafters or that shares it's excess loot. Anybody can bypass crafting. It has nothing to do with these bugs.

    Do I hope they can fix this? Yes. Am I going to let it affect my fun? No. Your arguments for a rollback are invalid.
  • Oldtimer209
    As a Beta tester, I wonder how many of the players in Beta knew about these "bugs" and did not report them, only to use them IN game to further themselves, friends or guild members?
    It would be interesting if they could check which players have obscene amounts of gold, materials, etc and check and see if they were in Beta.
    I am not sure what they could ( or would ) do about it though....
  • Ravasz
    Soul Shriven
    It would be interesting if they could check which players have obscene amounts of gold, materials, etc and check and see if they were in Beta.
    I am not sure what they could ( or would ) do about it though....
    If someone is caught cheating / hacking, it's an insta-ban. Does not matter if he played beta or not.
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