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The wider implications of large scale duping
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Magischzwei✭✭✭Magischzwei wrote: »
Also, legendary enchantments have a larger impact then 6%
I upgraded a VR 6 weapon from epic to legendary. Went from 120dmg to 125dmg. That is in no way game breaking and only a 6% increase.
Enchantments as in the Glyphs/Weapon Enchantments.
Also infinite gold, siege weapons, and instantly maxed out trading professions.
Pretty dire, isn't it?
Pretty much every progression aspect of the game has been *** with by this.0 -
Korereactor✭✭✭None of this matters because they will eventually be BANNED. It's not the end of Tamriel folks, relax. I've seen this happen in many MMOs - they all survived and are still successful.Edited by Korereactor on April 18, 2014 2:47PM0 -
for all you people saying they have game logs of characters and transactions its a lie. they don't have *** all. dupers are free to do as they please0 -
Magischzwei✭✭✭Korereactor wrote: »Magischzwei wrote: »There is an element to every MMO that is subscription based, an element that is defining and valiantly defended by all its supporters - the Longevity.
What happened in this Guild Bank duping Fiasco might very well be killer for a large amount of people for these things. To understand this you need to understand all the large scale elements that make a game gain longevity - and the effects of possible large scale duping has on them.
PVP Progression
This one is easy. VR players with full legendary sets and ill-gotten gains from duping will dominate and have massive advantage over normal people for until the next expansion to come. This also connects to indirect beneficiarys from this incidents and, even to a lesser extent, to the PvE side of the fiaso - more on that later.
God forbid people can also, and actually, completly invalidate and bypass the main element of the PvP System right now - the siege weapons. How much can you compete with a raid with infinite siege weapons and forward camps at their disposal? You can't. This is especially devastating.
Unfair advantage like this is killer for a competitive system like this.
PVE Progression
People with gains from the duping might very well already have the best equipment in the game, and might very well have steamrolled through the veteran and dungeon content by now because they could bypass the balance element of this entirely - by the use of full legendary sets and enchantments when the game clearly wasn't balanced for people to have that. Future content, once released, will be a blitz for these people too - as it will not be and is not balanced on you having to have the very best gear to get there.
Crafting Skills
Wether it be buying items to deconstruct or duping the materials to craft stuff outright - people can entirely bypass crafting progression with the duping of items and gold.
Secondary Beneficators
These people will be extremly hard to track and some of them will even be unknowing of their status, and the effects they cause on the game is just as bad.
Hiding the Evidence
Can be done very easily and on multiple levels. Wether it is spending duped gold, selling duped items, laundering stuff over multiple accounts, hiding it in pending mail, pending auction house retrievals, dead guilds, etc. pp. You name it. There is absolutely no way to track all major consequences emanating from this.
Hell, even the accelerated progression of people due to dropped market prices will have severe negative impacts on the game's future.
The main issue is in a game like TESO, where EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME is compromised by this, and a bug that has supposedly been PRESENT SINCE CLOSED BETA, the effects of something like this are of an unheard of magnitude and will require drastic steps to remedy.
As solution I can really only see them doing a complete rollback to before the bug existed for everyone, that meaning, since this is apparently a bug since closed
beta, a complete relaunch.
I feel this way because there will be more people affected later down the line realising they cannot compete with duping beneficiaries in ANY aspect of the game then there will be pissed people now.
EDIT: Topic updated with more input from others, thanks people
None of this matters because they will eventually be BANNED. It's not the end of Tamriel folks, relax. I've seen this happen in many MMOs - they all survived and are still successful.
read the part of hiding the evidence and secondary beneficiarys.
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Mufasa✭✭✭Magischzwei wrote: »Magischzwei wrote: »
Also, legendary enchantments have a larger impact then 6%
I upgraded a VR 6 weapon from epic to legendary. Went from 120dmg to 125dmg. That is in no way game breaking and only a 6% increase.
Enchantments as in the Glyphs/Weapon Enchantments.
Also infinite gold, siege weapons, and instantly maxed out trading professions.
Pretty dire, isn't it?
Pretty much every progression aspect of the game has been *** with by this.
Ok, so a 6% over all increase, that everyone has access to. I have yet to see proof of non stack items being dupable. So do not spread misinformation.
Also, people have been farming VR zones for gold all week. I have seen people with over 300k from farming wolves in Stonefalls.... Game isnt broken yet.0 -
Bunk✭✭✭It'd be blatantly obvious to ZOS who exploited, and adequate action can be taken against these individuals.
This is how exploits are dealt with in every single game.Edited by ZOS_RobinsonE on April 18, 2014 8:20PMidiot0 -
Magischzwei✭✭✭None of these MMOs had such wide consequences and WOW did in fact at a point wipe all the spectral tigers from people (they were duped), or rolled back tons of chars.
Also, in wow, to get the best gear ever you needed to run instances, here, you craft it.0 -
yeh guys sorry but they don't have any logs of characters. dupers have free rain to do as they pleaseResponse By Email (Matthew) (04/12/2014 12:22 AM)
Hello again,
No problem at all, we will hopefully have a system in place to restore the characters at some stage, but I am glad that everything has been resolved to your satisfaction.
We are very busy, so it's hard to put the effort we want to put in to our support at the moment.
In the mean time though, I am glad you can continue your adventures. May your mind and body stay strong against the tyranny of Molag Bal and his Daedric scum!
Kind regards,
Matthew.
Elder Scrolls Online Team0 -
Rippah✭No rollback, no relaunch.
Won't happen, your dreaming.
Only the fools who had toons/banks full or duped items or millions/billions from vendoring, will get a ban.
There will be some kind of half assed dev post, & something unrelated, impressive game feature etc will shortly be announced to redirect attention.
The chinese & anyone else smart enough will have squirreled away via various means whatever it is they need, whether to play, to craft, to pvp or to sell & make rl $$$.
The sooner you realize this, the sooner you can move on with your eso adventure or quit. simple.
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Tetrasoli✭✭✭foot_baller24 wrote: »
yeh guys sorry but they don't have any logs of characters. dupers have free rain to do as they pleaseResponse By Email (Matthew) (04/12/2014 12:22 AM)
Hello again,
No problem at all, we will hopefully have a system in place to restore the characters at some stage, but I am glad that everything has been resolved to your satisfaction.
We are very busy, so it's hard to put the effort we want to put in to our support at the moment.
In the mean time though, I am glad you can continue your adventures. May your mind and body stay strong against the tyranny of Molag Bal and his Daedric scum!
Kind regards,
Matthew.
Elder Scrolls Online Team
That's absolutely not true. Everything a characters does is logged simply because it has to be. If not, then everytime you logged in, you would be reset back to level 1. The whole system works on a database.0 -
scruffycavetroll✭✭✭You're pretty much mentally deficient if you think any sort of "rollback" is necessary. It'd be blatantly obvious to ZOS who exploited, and adequate action can be taken against these individuals.
This is how exploits are dealt with in every single game.
and i think that's what people (at least I do) mean when they say rollback. I don't think they (I'm not anyway) are talking about everyone. They definitely should have a way to see activity on accounts..if they can restore items on an account, good indication they do.
so I mean those particular people....If DICE can reset an individual's account for hacking / exploiting, sanity/logic should dictate that in a game of this nature, ZOS should be able to do the same thing...BUT that's leaving to much to hope / trust / faith, and if those people are right who are saying they don't have logs...then rollbacks are the only solution.
Edited by scruffycavetroll on April 18, 2014 2:49PM0 -
Nope sorry bud, Eso deleted my character and did not have any information logged about the account. sorry to burst your bubble but the only reason i managed to get my account back was because i had a many screen shots.0
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Magischzwei✭✭✭foot_baller24 wrote: »
yeh guys sorry but they don't have any logs of characters. dupers have free rain to do as they pleaseResponse By Email (Matthew) (04/12/2014 12:22 AM)
Hello again,
No problem at all, we will hopefully have a system in place to restore the characters at some stage, but I am glad that everything has been resolved to your satisfaction.
We are very busy, so it's hard to put the effort we want to put in to our support at the moment.
In the mean time though, I am glad you can continue your adventures. May your mind and body stay strong against the tyranny of Molag Bal and his Daedric scum!
Kind regards,
Matthew.
Elder Scrolls Online Team
That's absolutely not true. Everything a characters does is logged simply because it has to be. If not, then everytime you logged in, you would be reset back to level 1. The whole system works on a database.
Not to such an extent as where you could tell wether or not someone was using duped gold to buy an item which he then deconstructed, especially if it was traded over 3 or 4 stubs, right?
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SaibotLiu✭✭✭✭They can not roll back the entire server, because EVERY player will be affected and will lead to a mass exodus. This is even worse for the health of the game than leaving it the way it is. That is not going to happen, it never will happen. There's no need to roll back the server to a specific point either, as the issue has been around since the start.
My suggestion would be, delete every existing legendary temper and item, every existing PVP vendor item. Delete the entire database of particular items that would provide a notable advantage if duped. Yes this will annoy people who get them in legit fashion, it sucks but what else can you do? Cheaters ruin it for everyone, one way or another, this is the lesser of the possible evils.
Blanket bans on any account with an unreasonable sum of money. I have no idea how much this would be, but Im sure the devs would have a good starting point.
Players could of course appeal, and if it is found that the money was made through genuine gameplay, and involved nothing suspicious, then reinstate their account. People who got caught cheating or knew they transferred money from a dodgy account probably wouldnt even bother appealing for investigation. What good would it do if they cant prove they got it through genuine gameplay?
This would catch most of the people and eliminate most of the damage done. And its an easy solution that affects the least amount of people possible. Only hardcore players would even notice, they're also the most likely to exploit. Judge them all as guilty until proven otherwise.1 -
Korereactor✭✭✭read the part of hiding the evidence and secondary beneficiarys.
I did. WoW and Rift survived just fine, ESO will as well. No rollbacks needed. This happens quite often with new launches, it's nothing new.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭foot_baller24 wrote: »Nope sorry bud, Eso deleted my character and did not have any information logged about the account. sorry to burst your bubble but the only reason i managed to get my account back was because i had a many screen shots.
At a guess, your character got deleted because of some unusual glitch with the database, or because when a character gets deleted it's entire record history gets purged.0 -
Magischzwei✭✭✭Korereactor wrote: »read the part of hiding the evidence and secondary beneficiarys.
I did. WoW and Rift survived just fine, ESO will as well. No rollbacks needed. This happens quite often with new launches, it's nothing new.
Rift went f2p a long time ago, and neither rift nor wow ever had something with an impact of this magnitude simply by the design of the game.0 -
Korereactor✭✭✭foot_baller24 wrote: »
yeh guys sorry but they don't have any logs of characters. dupers have free rain to do as they pleaseResponse By Email (Matthew) (04/12/2014 12:22 AM)
Hello again,
No problem at all, we will hopefully have a system in place to restore the characters at some stage, but I am glad that everything has been resolved to your satisfaction.
We are very busy, so it's hard to put the effort we want to put in to our support at the moment.
In the mean time though, I am glad you can continue your adventures. May your mind and body stay strong against the tyranny of Molag Bal and his Daedric scum!
Kind regards,
Matthew.
Elder Scrolls Online Team
They don't have a character restore system, that statement says nothing about logs. I can almost guarantee you they have logs.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Magischzwei wrote: »foot_baller24 wrote: »
yeh guys sorry but they don't have any logs of characters. dupers have free rain to do as they pleaseResponse By Email (Matthew) (04/12/2014 12:22 AM)
Hello again,
No problem at all, we will hopefully have a system in place to restore the characters at some stage, but I am glad that everything has been resolved to your satisfaction.
We are very busy, so it's hard to put the effort we want to put in to our support at the moment.
In the mean time though, I am glad you can continue your adventures. May your mind and body stay strong against the tyranny of Molag Bal and his Daedric scum!
Kind regards,
Matthew.
Elder Scrolls Online Team
That's absolutely not true. Everything a characters does is logged simply because it has to be. If not, then everytime you logged in, you would be reset back to level 1. The whole system works on a database.
Not to such an extent as where you could tell wether or not someone was using duped gold to buy an item which he then deconstructed, especially if it was traded over 3 or 4 stubs, right?
Auditing that would be tedious, but should be possible. If they can afford the time to track everyone down is a different question.0 -
They didn't even know my account existed until i showed them screen shots as proof. Eso crapped the bed with this one.1
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Korereactor✭✭✭Magischzwei wrote: »Korereactor wrote: »read the part of hiding the evidence and secondary beneficiarys.
I did. WoW and Rift survived just fine, ESO will as well. No rollbacks needed. This happens quite often with new launches, it's nothing new.
Rift went f2p a long time ago, and neither rift nor wow ever had something with an impact of this magnitude simply by the design of the game.
Ummm...yes they did, and in WoW's case, more than once. Google it. WoW's had many duping issues.Edited by Korereactor on April 18, 2014 2:58PM0 -
Magischzwei✭✭✭
Nope, not in this magnitude.Korereactor wrote: »Magischzwei wrote: »Korereactor wrote: »read the part of hiding the evidence and secondary beneficiarys.
I did. WoW and Rift survived just fine, ESO will as well. No rollbacks needed. This happens quite often with new launches, it's nothing new.
Rift went f2p a long time ago, and neither rift nor wow ever had something with an impact of this magnitude simply by the design of the game.
Ummm...yes they did, and in WoW's case, more than once. Google it.
In wow, you always had to do something on your own to get to the endgame, or to the best items. You had to run a dungeon and kill a boss.
BoE items and gold never helped you as much in WoW.
Also blizzard did rollbacks left and right for any amount of reasons when their end game was concerned. Pointing to the kill rollbacks and item removals from tons of guilds for bugs used to make a fight slightly easier .. just to protect distribution of epics.
here pretty much all progress the game has to offer as of now can be bypassed with this.
siege weapons? you could dupe gold, and you can buy them from gold.
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Scyrinal✭The longer they wait the harder it will be because the bug still exists. They should use this maintenance time to find the duping bug and squashing it into paste.0
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Zooce✭✭✭Guys, this really is quite simple:
1) Do not roll back, it hurts those who have not duped
2) Of course they have tools to look into who did what, those that did should be banned. Even 'laundering' would not hide the initial duping. If any of you believe they have no logs of what happens behind the scenes I'm afraid you have no idea of how a MMO works. However, it's based on privilege, so only certain people behind the scenes can see everything that happens. They will be creating tools right now to identify dupers. If you are a duper I would be worried, and proactively thinking about starting a new account.
3) Gold isn't as big an issue in ESO as people make out, siege equipment is pretty easy to get.
Just relax guys, compared to many other MMOs this one is being handled well.2
