Thought on this vampire scamming issue

Kyosji

zaria wrote: »

Emopower wrote: »

Yea dude, no where does it say "charging for a vampire bite is bannable." I'm not saying I agree with it, but the game follows a "Buyers beware Policy" If you're giving someone gold regardless of what they say, you're just giving them gold. Be smart with your money guys.

This, you have no guarantee that the seller will bite you or even can.
If some group is killing off vampires so you can't get bitten and then offer bites for payment, assume scamers as they can only bite once.
As many people want to pay they have already probably bitten somebody and continue to scam as they cant bite again yet.

Probably safer to buy from random WTS as they are not an organized setup.

Again, Zenimax has stated that people killing off the spawns for the sole sake of preventing you from doing a quest (especially if they do it to try and force you to pay them money), is a bannable offense.

Stautmeister

Its quite simple
Camping mobs to prevent them spawning or isntakilling other people from getting bitten. Than asking for money to sell your bite.:
Griefing.
Getting bitten and wanting to sell this highly in demand item to people to lazy to do it themselves.
Clever use of gamemechanis.

Its like buying a crafting tome because you dont want to grind for it.

Paying gold and then not getting what you payed for;
Scamming, which is illigal and reportable.

TheCookisMonstar

Kyosji wrote: »

I'm posting this because I sat here avoiding my bosses and others and spent time writing it, just to have the thread closed before it could be sent.

Anyways.

If you were scammed, I'm sorry for you, but obviously you had a lack of common sense in the situation. What you SHOULD have done was reported the person trying to charge you for the bite if he wasn't letting you get bit the normal way in the area. Zeni has already stated that those people were breaking the rules by doing that. Sure this person that scammed you did something pretty bad for you, but no, I honestly don't feel he should be punished. This game is supposed to mimic in some way the Elder Scroll world. Has a NPC ever cheated you out of money? I sure know I've seen a few instances of this. That's the way the game was designed. For Christ's sake, they are adding in a whole new system for the game involving crime, and they are adding in a freaking Thieves guild. Guess what thieves do...THEY STEAL.

For a game that EVERYONE is complaining about that it needs to be more realistic to the series, when it gets to close to the realism, you all complain even more.

Should the player that scammed you be punished? Sure. Should he be punished in some way that involves his activity to the game? No. The only way this person should be punished is have some guard chase him screaming "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!" and have him pay off the guard. Why? BECAUSE IT'S FREAKING ELDER SCROLLS!

I just had to get that off my chest.

report is all that's required....

Customer support can check chat and trade log...as well as quest log for vamp bite....

Simple suspension for scammers ... negative impact on community reason

nerevarine1138

zaria wrote: »

This, you have no guarantee that the seller will bite you or even can.
If some group is killing off vampires so you can't get bitten and then offer bites for payment, assume scamers as they can only bite once.
As many people want to pay they have already probably bitten somebody and continue to scam as they cant bite again yet.

Probably safer to buy from random WTS as they are not an organized setup.

This is why (again) you get the agreement written in chat. If they agree to bite you for [x] gold and don't follow through, report them.

BrassRazoo

Zone chat is very poor in this game.
Basically there is Gold Sellers spamming low zones, Vamp and WW spammers selling bites in high zones and everyone else trying to sell the most rubbish stuff from mob drops. On top of that, there are the infinite Guild invites and people trying to sell Motifs like they are a rare thing.
Perhaps one in 10 lines is worth reading.

nerevarine1138

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Zone chat is very poor in this game.
Basically there is Gold Sellers spamming low zones, Vamp and WW spammers selling bites in high zones and everyone else trying to sell the most rubbish stuff from mob drops. On top of that, there are the infinite Guild invites and people trying to sell Motifs like they are a rare thing.
Perhaps one in 10 lines is worth reading.

I think you want one of the generic threads making hyperbolic complaints about zone chat.

This thread is for a discussion of how to avoid/punish scammers.

BrassRazoo

"I think you want one of the generic threads making hyperbolic complaints about zone chat.

This thread is for a discussion of how to avoid/punish scammers."

No, I want this thread, as the Bite selling and complaining is taking almost all of zone chat in Eastmarch and The Rift.

Hawke

Kyosji wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Emopower wrote: »

Yea dude, no where does it say "charging for a vampire bite is bannable." I'm not saying I agree with it, but the game follows a "Buyers beware Policy" If you're giving someone gold regardless of what they say, you're just giving them gold. Be smart with your money guys.

This, you have no guarantee that the seller will bite you or even can.
If some group is killing off vampires so you can't get bitten and then offer bites for payment, assume scamers as they can only bite once.
As many people want to pay they have already probably bitten somebody and continue to scam as they cant bite again yet.

Probably safer to buy from random WTS as they are not an organized setup.

Again, Zenimax has stated that people killing off the spawns for the sole sake of preventing you from doing a quest (especially if they do it to try and force you to pay them money), is a bannable offense.

The problem is proving intent.

"Yeah I am RR10, but I was passing through, talking to my friend here, and then some mobs jumped him and I saved him!"

Once you start precident limiting players from being in areas...


Well, I hope they fix the problem with the people greifing killing spawn pools, but the scamming part... *shrugs* it is easier to get bit than it is to get to level 50 provisioning (and that is pretty easy by the way).

nerevarine1138

BrassRazoo wrote: »

"I think you want one of the generic threads making hyperbolic complaints about zone chat.

This thread is for a discussion of how to avoid/punish scammers."

No, I want this thread, as the Bite selling and complaining is taking almost all of zone chat in Eastmarch and The Rift.

Ah. Then feel free to comment on the scamming instead of making hyperbolic complaints about zone chat.

Kyosji

TheCookisMonstar wrote: »

Kyosji wrote: »

I'm posting this because I sat here avoiding my bosses and others and spent time writing it, just to have the thread closed before it could be sent.

Anyways.

If you were scammed, I'm sorry for you, but obviously you had a lack of common sense in the situation. What you SHOULD have done was reported the person trying to charge you for the bite if he wasn't letting you get bit the normal way in the area. Zeni has already stated that those people were breaking the rules by doing that. Sure this person that scammed you did something pretty bad for you, but no, I honestly don't feel he should be punished. This game is supposed to mimic in some way the Elder Scroll world. Has a NPC ever cheated you out of money? I sure know I've seen a few instances of this. That's the way the game was designed. For Christ's sake, they are adding in a whole new system for the game involving crime, and they are adding in a freaking Thieves guild. Guess what thieves do...THEY STEAL.

For a game that EVERYONE is complaining about that it needs to be more realistic to the series, when it gets to close to the realism, you all complain even more.

Should the player that scammed you be punished? Sure. Should he be punished in some way that involves his activity to the game? No. The only way this person should be punished is have some guard chase him screaming "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!" and have him pay off the guard. Why? BECAUSE IT'S FREAKING ELDER SCROLLS!

I just had to get that off my chest.

report is all that's required....

Customer support can check chat and trade log...as well as quest log for vamp bite....

Simple suspension for scammers ... negative impact on community reason

Again, not the point I was making

BrassRazoo

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

BrassRazoo wrote: »

"I think you want one of the generic threads making hyperbolic complaints about zone chat.

This thread is for a discussion of how to avoid/punish scammers."

No, I want this thread, as the Bite selling and complaining is taking almost all of zone chat in Eastmarch and The Rift.

Ah. Then feel free to comment on the scamming instead of making hyperbolic complaints about zone chat.

Thank you, and I'll comment on Zone chat in reference to the people complaining about the scamming that is taking up so much of it.

wingnamrwb17_ESO

Riften Zone chat is basically selling vamp bite, buying vamp bite, some people telling other people off for selling/buying vamp bite, arguing back and forth and why they are selfish and lazy etc.

Seriously, get a life. If people want to buy it instead of waiting 3.5 hrs for night time and another 1 hour for blood fiend that may or may not spawn, so be it. Its free market.

If people are scamming, then sure, you should report him. I think I saw a person who is selling bite even though he got the 7 days debuff on him.

Knovah

Before I post my opinion on the subject, let me make it clear I have no desire to become undead or wolfy so what my opinion is about is just that an opinion and the way I see it.

I can't say that charging for bites is anyway bad. I am looking at it from a supply and demand point of view. If player x wants be a vamp or wolf so bad and does not want to hunt and get it and is willing to part with the money. Why should player y not get paid? He is supplying the demand. I personally would not charge but I see no problem with it at all. (I can maybe see this mainly with alts...low lvl alts)..if you get scamed by someone It is to bad it is a buyer beware thing imho. You wanted to buy it . That is how it works. You can't trust strangers so be smart about it.

What I do see a problem with, is the *** that are camping the spawns on purpose not for loot or cash but because they want to hold a monopoly on the product . I don't think it should work that way. It takes away the supply and demand part to the "we have it you can't get it anywhere but here".

I personally think zos should shut that whole monopoly down hard…people can say it is like the real world ect ect… well in my part of the world government will not allow any one company to hold a monopoly over any industry…If you want to apply those rules here do it right.

This is just my opinion. I am not going to argue why I see it this way.

BrassRazoo

If ZOS cannot stop the camping of spawn yet say this is against ToS, then why don't they just open Bite Vendors and make it a player choice that is not reversible.
I know players that have gone Vamp, sold some bites, and turned back because they hate it.

nerevarine1138

BrassRazoo wrote: »

If ZOS cannot stop the camping of spawn yet say this is against ToS, then why don't they just open Bite Vendors and make it a player choice that is not reversible.
I know players that have gone Vamp, sold some bites, and turned back because they hate it.

They can stop it, and last time I was in Reaper's March, it seemed like it had pretty much died.

I have no opinion on paying for bites vs. getting bitten by mobs vs. getting bitten by a player for free. But the reason there isn't a vendor is that the mobs are extremely picky about when/where they spawn, and players can only bite once per 7 days. These chokepoints are meant to limit the number of players who can become a vampire or werewolf. Adding a vendor entirely defeats the purpose.

Svann

While I dont think they will ban anyone for scamming per se, I wholeheartedly would support it. And intentionally blocking progress in a pve area is certainly a punishable offense.

jasterslegacy2000b14_ESO

wingnamrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Riften Zone chat is basically selling vamp bite, buying vamp bite, some people telling other people off for selling/buying vamp bite, arguing back and forth and why they are selfish and lazy etc.

Seriously, get a life. If people want to buy it instead of waiting 3.5 hrs for night time and another 1 hour for blood fiend that may or may not spawn, so be it. Its free market.

If people are scamming, then sure, you should report him. I think I saw a person who is selling bite even though he got the 7 days debuff on him.

Agreed, if people are going to tell you how to play the game then they should start offering to pay your subscription cost. I pay to play this game and make my own decisions as do we all, whether that means you want to buy a bite or sit at the spawn.

Zenimax could make it easier to see other players buffs but with the right addon like the WarLegendHUD you can see if the player selling bites actually has the disease to begin with and then if they have a cooldown still ticking on being able to turn someone.

Most of the ppl that get scammed don't do their research and there's a few ways to reduce the chance of getting scammed, although if you're paying for a bite there's always the risk unless you have a bite first policy. But then the person giving the bite might be scammed lol.

In the end, in either side of the deal you make to buy a bite you're dealing with real people. I for one know that in real life there's a lot of dishonest people out there, in game deals aren't any different.

brad2112

I'm sure this has been said at some point. But, make the "bites" an item that's created every week or so that is tradeable, not auctionable - just tradeable. Problem solved.

Indii

If 10k-15k is a lot of money, then it's worth taking the time to make sure you're spending it wisely.

Service-based transactions in MMOs have always been subject to scamming, both on the part of the buyer and seller. There is no hard coded system in place to force players to perform a particular action, and nor should there be. But we can reduce our risk by only engaging in high value service transactions with trusted players.

Before you post your WTB/WTS in zone, ask yourself:

• Do you have friends at work/school who could trade with you?
• Are there guild members you can call on?
• Is there a third party who can hold funds in trust while the transaction takes place? (e.g. guild officer, parent, mutual friend, etc)

If you don't want to go to the trouble of trying to secure your service based transactions, then do accept the inherent risk that comes with a percentage of buyers and sellers trying to get away with something for free. If the cost is negligible to you then security probably isn't worth the hassle, but if it's expensive then going that extra step is going to save you a lot of stress.

Willow

I must have missed the quest in the other TES games where vampires scammed people out of a bite.

Kyosji

Knovah wrote: »

Before I post my opinion on the subject, let me make it clear I have no desire to become undead or wolfy so what my opinion is about is just that an opinion and the way I see it.

I can't say that charging for bites is anyway bad. I am looking at it from a supply and demand point of view. If player x wants be a vamp or wolf so bad and does not want to hunt and get it and is willing to part with the money. Why should player y not get paid? He is supplying the demand. I personally would not charge but I see no problem with it at all. (I can maybe see this mainly with alts...low lvl alts)..if you get scamed by someone It is to bad it is a buyer beware thing imho. You wanted to buy it . That is how it works. You can't trust strangers so be smart about it.

What I do see a problem with, is the *** that are camping the spawns on purpose not for loot or cash but because they want to hold a monopoly on the product . I don't think it should work that way. It takes away the supply and demand part to the "we have it you can't get it anywhere but here".

I personally think zos should shut that whole monopoly down hard…people can say it is like the real world ect ect… well in my part of the world government will not allow any one company to hold a monopoly over any industry…If you want to apply those rules here do it right.

This is just my opinion. I am not going to argue why I see it this way.

Again, no one is promoting that, It's against the EULA, and Zeni has made it vocally clear that it is NOT allowed on the server. To kill a set of monsters for the sole fact to grief or cause a monopoly is NOT allowed in this game. It's on a different level from scamming, as scamming does not block progress in any way.

Kyosji

jasterslegacy2000b14_ESO wrote: »

wingnamrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Riften Zone chat is basically selling vamp bite, buying vamp bite, some people telling other people off for selling/buying vamp bite, arguing back and forth and why they are selfish and lazy etc.

Seriously, get a life. If people want to buy it instead of waiting 3.5 hrs for night time and another 1 hour for blood fiend that may or may not spawn, so be it. Its free market.

If people are scamming, then sure, you should report him. I think I saw a person who is selling bite even though he got the 7 days debuff on him.

Agreed, if people are going to tell you how to play the game then they should start offering to pay your subscription cost. I pay to play this game and make my own decisions as do we all, whether that means you want to buy a bite or sit at the spawn.

Zenimax could make it easier to see other players buffs but with the right addon like the WarLegendHUD you can see if the player selling bites actually has the disease to begin with and then if they have a cooldown still ticking on being able to turn someone.

Most of the ppl that get scammed don't do their research and there's a few ways to reduce the chance of getting scammed, although if you're paying for a bite there's always the risk unless you have a bite first policy. But then the person giving the bite might be scammed lol.

In the end, in either side of the deal you make to buy a bite you're dealing with real people. I for one know that in real life there's a lot of dishonest people out there, in game deals aren't any different.

Did they finally fix WarLegend? After the first patch, teh addon would freak out if I had it enabled and say I had every buff and debuff and put a floating skull above my head.

nerevarine1138

Kyosji wrote: »

Did they finally fix WarLegend? After the first patch, teh addon would freak out if I had it enabled and say I had every buff and debuff and put a floating skull above my head.

If it was an add-on showing whether another player was a vampire/werewolf, then it isn't going to be fixed until they remove whatever code was adding that functionality. Add-ons are not supposed to show you what buffs/debuffs are on other players, period.

Kyosji

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Kyosji wrote: »

Did they finally fix WarLegend? After the first patch, teh addon would freak out if I had it enabled and say I had every buff and debuff and put a floating skull above my head.

If it was an add-on showing whether another player was a vampire/werewolf, then it isn't going to be fixed until they remove whatever code was adding that functionality. Add-ons are not supposed to show you what buffs/debuffs are on other players, period.

It would show any type of buff or debuff as it is imaged when you view your character screen. Also, there are quite a few out there that do show others buffs and debuffs, and even the ones on and added to the mobs you are fighting.

nerevarine1138

Kyosji wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Kyosji wrote: »

Did they finally fix WarLegend? After the first patch, teh addon would freak out if I had it enabled and say I had every buff and debuff and put a floating skull above my head.

If it was an add-on showing whether another player was a vampire/werewolf, then it isn't going to be fixed until they remove whatever code was adding that functionality. Add-ons are not supposed to show you what buffs/debuffs are on other players, period.

It would show any type of buff or debuff as it is imaged when you view your character screen. Also, there are quite a few out there that do show others buffs and debuffs, and even the ones on and added to the mobs you are fighting.

Right. And my understanding is that the information they're displaying isn't supposed to be available through the API. It's possible it's ok for them to show debuffs on NPCs, but if it shows any information about another player, you should report the add-on. ZO definitely doesn't intend for add-ons to be able to do that, and any add-on that does it has to be using a workaround to avoid the API restrictions that are in place.

jerten524_ESO

make the vamp skill generate a trade-able item. FIXED

Valdavia

Kyosji wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Emopower wrote: »

Yea dude, no where does it say "charging for a vampire bite is bannable." I'm not saying I agree with it, but the game follows a "Buyers beware Policy" If you're giving someone gold regardless of what they say, you're just giving them gold. Be smart with your money guys.

This, you have no guarantee that the seller will bite you or even can.
If some group is killing off vampires so you can't get bitten and then offer bites for payment, assume scamers as they can only bite once.
As many people want to pay they have already probably bitten somebody and continue to scam as they cant bite again yet.

Probably safer to buy from random WTS as they are not an organized setup.

Again, Zenimax has stated that people killing off the spawns for the sole sake of preventing you from doing a quest (especially if they do it to try and force you to pay them money), is a bannable offense.

it's your own responsibility as a player to not get scammed. There is actually more than one spawn for these mobs. stop crying and go to work finding them. trust me they cannot all be camped. It's your desperation that cretes a market for these scams to happen. Please stop crying to the devs and gms and santa clause and the easter bunny.

Indii

jerten524_ESO wrote: »

make the vamp skill generate a trade-able item. FIXED

That might work for other things, but vampires... Nyerr... It would destroy the lore aspect of the game. There's also be the issue of Bram Stoker rolling over in his grave, since no vampire ever got infected by a letter in the mail.

nerevarine1138

Valdavia wrote: »

it's your own responsibility as a player to not get scammed. There is actually more than one spawn for these mobs. stop crying and go to work finding them. trust me they cannot all be camped. It's your desperation that cretes a market for these scams to happen. Please stop crying to the devs and gms and santa clause and the easter bunny.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

It is your responsibility as a player to report scammers and griefers when they pop up. ZO has already stated that bite scams and mob-camping are reportable offenses. Doesn't matter if you think that people should be allowed to get away with it. They aren't. So stop defending griefers and scam artists with backhanded posts about how reporting is bad. Reporting is how these people get stopped.

Knovah

Kyosji wrote: »

Knovah wrote: »

Before I post my opinion on the subject, let me make it clear I have no desire to become undead or wolfy so what my opinion is about is just that an opinion and the way I see it.

I can't say that charging for bites is anyway bad. I am looking at it from a supply and demand point of view. If player x wants be a vamp or wolf so bad and does not want to hunt and get it and is willing to part with the money. Why should player y not get paid? He is supplying the demand. I personally would not charge but I see no problem with it at all. (I can maybe see this mainly with alts...low lvl alts)..if you get scamed by someone It is to bad it is a buyer beware thing imho. You wanted to buy it . That is how it works. You can't trust strangers so be smart about it.

What I do see a problem with, is the *** that are camping the spawns on purpose not for loot or cash but because they want to hold a monopoly on the product . I don't think it should work that way. It takes away the supply and demand part to the "we have it you can't get it anywhere but here".

I personally think zos should shut that whole monopoly down hard…people can say it is like the real world ect ect… well in my part of the world government will not allow any one company to hold a monopoly over any industry…If you want to apply those rules here do it right.

This is just my opinion. I am not going to argue why I see it this way.

Again, no one is promoting that, It's against the EULA, and Zeni has made it vocally clear that it is NOT allowed on the server. To kill a set of monsters for the sole fact to grief or cause a monopoly is NOT allowed in this game. It's on a different level from scamming, as scamming does not block progress in any way.

If you read , I posted my thoughts on scamming issue as well…

Then I posted what part and the only part I had issue with on the whole subject, from spawn campers to the people buying.

Nowhere did I say anything about anyone supporting it. I Made it clear in my opinion that zos should shut those that were spawning it down hard. More people would be able to get the bite the regular way and less people would be buying and less people get scammed. That was my point

Sorry if that was unclear or you did not understand my post in its entirety. That is why I made those statements not just to focus on the one point .

Again this is my opinion