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Thought on this vampire scamming issue
Kyosji
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I'm posting this because I sat here avoiding my bosses and others and spent time writing it, just to have the thread closed before it could be sent.
Anyways.
If you were scammed, I'm sorry for you, but obviously you had a lack of common sense in the situation. What you SHOULD have done was reported the person trying to charge you for the bite if he wasn't letting you get bit the normal way in the area. Zeni has already stated that those people were breaking the rules by doing that. Sure this person that scammed you did something pretty bad for you, but no, I honestly don't feel he should be punished. This game is supposed to mimic in some way the Elder Scroll world. Has a NPC ever cheated you out of money? I sure know I've seen a few instances of this. That's the way the game was designed. For Christ's sake, they are adding in a whole new system for the game involving crime, and they are adding in a freaking Thieves guild. Guess what thieves do...THEY STEAL.
For a game that EVERYONE is complaining about that it needs to be more realistic to the series, when it gets to close to the realism, you all complain even more.
Should the player that scammed you be punished? Sure. Should he be punished in some way that involves his activity to the game? No. The only way this person should be punished is have some guard chase him screaming "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!" and have him pay off the guard. Why? BECAUSE IT'S FREAKING ELDER SCROLLS!
I just had to get that off my chest.
Anyways.
If you were scammed, I'm sorry for you, but obviously you had a lack of common sense in the situation. What you SHOULD have done was reported the person trying to charge you for the bite if he wasn't letting you get bit the normal way in the area. Zeni has already stated that those people were breaking the rules by doing that. Sure this person that scammed you did something pretty bad for you, but no, I honestly don't feel he should be punished. This game is supposed to mimic in some way the Elder Scroll world. Has a NPC ever cheated you out of money? I sure know I've seen a few instances of this. That's the way the game was designed. For Christ's sake, they are adding in a whole new system for the game involving crime, and they are adding in a freaking Thieves guild. Guess what thieves do...THEY STEAL.
For a game that EVERYONE is complaining about that it needs to be more realistic to the series, when it gets to close to the realism, you all complain even more.
Should the player that scammed you be punished? Sure. Should he be punished in some way that involves his activity to the game? No. The only way this person should be punished is have some guard chase him screaming "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!" and have him pay off the guard. Why? BECAUSE IT'S FREAKING ELDER SCROLLS!
I just had to get that off my chest.
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Emopower✭Yea dude, no where does it say "charging for a vampire bite is bannable." I'm not saying I agree with it, but the game follows a "Buyers beware Policy" If you're giving someone gold regardless of what they say, you're just giving them gold. Be smart with your money guys.
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Inversus✭✭✭✭✭Yea dude, no where does it say "charging for a vampire bite is bannable." I'm not saying I agree with it, but the game follows a "Buyers beware Policy" If you're giving someone gold regardless of what they say, you're just giving them gold. Be smart with your money guys.
@Emopower
I doubt it says anywhere that "exploiting the game in order to create magic clowns that attack players" is specifically bannable either - but it comes under hacking so it is bannable. Scamming people in the game I'm sure is bannable.Edited by Inversus on April 19, 2014 1:08AMVR14 EH Sorc
VR1 AD NB Crafter2 -
Kyosji✭✭✭Yea dude, no where does it say "charging for a vampire bite is bannable." I'm not saying I agree with it, but the game follows a "Buyers beware Policy" If you're giving someone gold regardless of what they say, you're just giving them gold. Be smart with your money guys.
@Emopower
I doubt it says anywhere that "exploiting the game in order to create magic clowns that attack players" is specifically bannable either - but it comes under hacking so it is bannable. Scamming people in the game I'm sure is bannable.
And that wasn't remotely close to the point I was making.0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Get the trade agreement in writing in chat. If they scam you, report them.----
Murray?0 -
TolodineSoul ShrivenSorry but how exactly are the in game NPC guards suppose to know that a player scammed another player? It isn't part of the game mechanics and would be next to impossible to do so. If you make it part of the story line such as an NPC scamming a player then you can make it part of the mechanics. How are the guards going to know any kind of exchange went down between players and what kind of agreement was made? That is for the GMs to decide when players are reported.
The other reason is that there is no way for the person that got scammed to retaliate and get their money back except to report the other player. In the elder scrolls series, most of the time, you could kill the NPC that scammed you and loot their body.
I just love when people try to justify scamming others. It is and will always be a bannable offense.Edited by Tolodine on April 20, 2014 2:15AM0 -
Thesiren✭✭✭It sounds like the OP, and some in this thread who agree with him, are the scammers. After all, who said "Let sleeping dogs lie?" A dog! 1 -
Kyosji✭✭✭It sounds like the OP, and some in this thread who agree with him, are the scammers. After all, who said "Let sleeping dogs lie?" A dog!
@Thesiren , your right to your own opinion, however, I'd suggest you refrain from calling others 'scammers' on the forums, as it IS against the code of conduct. Also, why are you calling me out as a scammer when I clearly told others what to do if people charged you for bites? Seems like bad business model to try and scam someone out of money while ALSO telling them how to get a free bite and to report players not letting you get the bite, don't you think? All I said was that scammers shouldn't be banned, just punished in the Elder Scrolls fashion. Sorry if you don't agree to it. This is an Elder Scrolls game. There is crime, and scams going on in the game series. You don't see the game banning NPCs for scamming you, do you? No. There's just some in game justice. Also, they ARE implementing a thieves guild and a crime system in the game, or so everyone keeps saying, so wouldn't it make sense to think that there may be some sort of criminal player system as well?
Again, this is my opinion, so you can disagree with it if you like, but calling me out as a scammer just because you don't agree with it is rather immature.0 -
SilestiaSoul ShrivenIt is in the TOS that "(You agree not to use any Service to:) Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services."
Scamming is disruptive hence you can be banned for it.0 -
Falmer✭✭✭✭Your right, it should be handled by an in-game realistic way. When ever the flagged scammer shows up in a town, the town guards should kill the character with a full /delete final death.
I personally would never "buy" a scratch anyway as I don't like to be part of encouraging that sort of thing, but for people that are actually scamming on top of it... there needs to be REAL consequences. Deletion of that character I think would be sufficiently harsh enough to deter that sort of behavior.1 -
Hawke✭✭✭✭Paying for a vampire bite is like any other "under the table" deal. You can be double crossed... if you are , there is nothing you can do about it.
If you truly want a vampire bite or a wolf bite, you need to conduct your due diligence. "Is this guy a scammer? Have people complained about him in the past? Do I really want to spend 50,000 gold to get bitten? Am I too lazy to sit and wait for a bite by the NPC?"
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LadyChaos✭✭✭✭If it breaks TOS its bannable, doesn't matter what any personal opinion of griefing is, only matters what ZOS says it is.TOS wrote:http://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms_us
...Your activities infringe on or are suspected to infringe on another’s rights or any intellectual property;.... Other Supplemental Terms pertaining to Your Service and/or Game, such as a Code of Conduct, provide guidance on behavior that ZeniMax deems to be inappropriate and specify restrictions on Your Account, Your use of the Game, or Your participation in the Services.
... Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but is not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service ...Edited by LadyChaos on April 21, 2014 12:30PMVR2 Ataxia - [NA] Veteran Dominion Sorcerer [Auriel's Bow]
PvP, PvE, Crafting, and General Shenanigans
Sorcery and Mayhem online since 1999
Current PvP Class/Supernatural Census1 -
Scamming Violates Section 8 of the Terms of Use that you signed when you got into the game (yes I actually read it). This is not something that you can debate. The rules are set. I don't see how it is so hard to follow them. Obey them or get banned. Period. Personally, I think that it should be under the Exploiting of a Game glitch which results in an insta-ban. But Zenimax insists that it is Under Section 8.2
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Also, If you read carefully "upon Your use of Services, for any other activity whatsoever that is, in ZeniMax’s sole discretion, unlawful, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of these Terms of Service or a Service, including without limitation Your actions in a Game(s) or forums." The SPIRIT of the terms of service. So even if they do not explicitly have the word "scamming" in the terms of use, they can still instaban you for violating the Spirit of the Terms of Use.1
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Kyosji✭✭✭@viridianscarab , yes yes, we all got that, but you were missing the point of my post.0
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Paying for a vampire bite is like any other "under the table" deal. You can be double crossed... if you are , there is nothing you can do about it.
If you truly want a vampire bite or a wolf bite, you need to conduct your due diligence. "Is this guy a scammer? Have people complained about him in the past? Do I really want to spend 50,000 gold to get bitten? Am I too lazy to sit and wait for a bite by the NPC?"
Here is the problem with this. There are griefers out there who sit at the spawns of the vampires and werewolves who are Veteran rank 4, and when the Vampire or werewolf finally spawns, they kill them without it being able to infect anyone. They do it because 1: they find it funny and 2: because people cannot get the bite the normal way because of griefers. So they are forced to go the route of buying a bite from someone. The bites are very rare and are in high demand, which is why people are willing to buy them. No longer does Just sitting around a spawn guarantee that you will get what you want. Griefers have made sure of that.2 -
Kyosji✭✭✭viridianscarab wrote: »Paying for a vampire bite is like any other "under the table" deal. You can be double crossed... if you are , there is nothing you can do about it.
If you truly want a vampire bite or a wolf bite, you need to conduct your due diligence. "Is this guy a scammer? Have people complained about him in the past? Do I really want to spend 50,000 gold to get bitten? Am I too lazy to sit and wait for a bite by the NPC?"
Here is the problem with this. There are griefers out there who sit at the spawns of the vampires and werewolves who are Veteran rank 4, and when the Vampire or werewolf finally spawns, they kill them without it being able to infect anyone. They do it because 1: they find it funny and 2: because people cannot get the bite the normal way because of griefers. So they are forced to go the route of buying a bite from someone. The bites are very rare and are in high demand, which is why people are willing to buy them. No longer does Just sitting around a spawn guarantee that you will get what you want. Griefers have made sure of that.
Which brings it back to my original post. Report them, take screenshots, whatever. Zeni have made it clear that they are banning people doing it.0 -
LadyChaos✭✭✭✭@viridianscarab , yes yes, we all got that, but you were missing the point of my post.
is the point of the post to turn this into EVE, where griefing and scamming is a part of the game design or to blame the victim of TOS violators rather than focus efforts on fixing the problem causing the drama in the first place?VR2 Ataxia - [NA] Veteran Dominion Sorcerer [Auriel's Bow]
PvP, PvE, Crafting, and General Shenanigans Sorcery and Mayhem online since 1999
Current PvP Class/Supernatural Census0 -
Kyosji✭✭✭@viridianscarab , yes yes, we all got that, but you were missing the point of my post.
is the point of the post to turn this into EVE, where griefing and scamming is a part of the game design or to blame the victim of TOS violators rather than focus efforts on fixing the problem causing the drama in the first place?
Are you that simple, or are you choosing not to read these posts before posting?
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Hawke✭✭✭✭viridianscarab wrote: »Paying for a vampire bite is like any other "under the table" deal. You can be double crossed... if you are , there is nothing you can do about it.
If you truly want a vampire bite or a wolf bite, you need to conduct your due diligence. "Is this guy a scammer? Have people complained about him in the past? Do I really want to spend 50,000 gold to get bitten? Am I too lazy to sit and wait for a bite by the NPC?"
Here is the problem with this. There are griefers out there who sit at the spawns of the vampires and werewolves who are Veteran rank 4, and when the Vampire or werewolf finally spawns, they kill them without it being able to infect anyone. They do it because 1: they find it funny and 2: because people cannot get the bite the normal way because of griefers. So they are forced to go the route of buying a bite from someone. The bites are very rare and are in high demand, which is why people are willing to buy them. No longer does Just sitting around a spawn guarantee that you will get what you want. Griefers have made sure of that.
Oh I know this. When I finally decided to get bit yesterday, this happened to me two of the three spawns I was trying to get bit... but I got it in "one night".
It sucks, but it is not the end of the world.. and look at it this way... people are wasting HOURS of their life just sitting on a spawn just to "grief" others, but it just means you gotta wait for another spawn,,, eventually you will get it.
Cant get mad about it... all you can do is inform ZOS and hopefully they will do something to fix it... but the thing is, it is not hard to get bit.
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LadyChaos✭✭✭✭
insulting people who don't agree with you OR the replies in your thread doesn't make your point of view any more valid.@viridianscarab , yes yes, we all got that, but you were missing the point of my post.
is the point of the post to turn this into EVE, where griefing and scamming is a part of the game design or to blame the victim of TOS violators rather than focus efforts on fixing the problem causing the drama in the first place?
Are you that simple, or are you choosing not to read these posts before posting?I'm posting this because I sat here avoiding my bosses and others and spent time writing it, just to have the thread closed before it could be sent.
Anyways.
If you were scammed, I'm sorry for you, but obviously you had a lack of common sense in the situation. What you SHOULD have done was reported the person trying to charge you for the bite if he wasn't letting you get bit the normal way in the area. Zeni has already stated that those people were breaking the rules by doing that. Sure this person that scammed you did something pretty bad for you, but no, I honestly don't feel he should be punished. This game is supposed to mimic in some way the Elder Scroll world. Has a NPC ever cheated you out of money? I sure know I've seen a few instances of this. That's the way the game was designed. For Christ's sake, they are adding in a whole new system for the game involving crime, and they are adding in a freaking Thieves guild. Guess what thieves do...THEY STEAL.
For a game that EVERYONE is complaining about that it needs to be more realistic to the series, when it gets to close to the realism, you all complain even more.
Should the player that scammed you be punished? Sure. Should he be punished in some way that involves his activity to the game? No. The only way this person should be punished is have some guard chase him screaming "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!" and have him pay off the guard. Why? BECAUSE IT'S FREAKING ELDER SCROLLS!
I just had to get that off my chest.
You propose the victim, of the infarction "got what he deserved" by falling for the scam, and that because the single player version works the way it does it should go to scammers/thiefs only have NPC chasing them off as a punishment for violating TOS against a player character in an MMO?
I'm not saying it's not "adorable", but I'm not daft and completely capable of reading... You might have different opinions of what you wanted the discussion to focus on, but people are replying to not only your OP but also the replies after... and it all seems relevant to the topic to me. Being rude to sincere responses isn't called for.
VR2 Ataxia - [NA] Veteran Dominion Sorcerer [Auriel's Bow]
PvP, PvE, Crafting, and General Shenanigans Sorcery and Mayhem online since 1999
Current PvP Class/Supernatural Census0 -
Laplace✭✭✭If you were scammed, I'm sorry for you, but obviously you had a lack of common sense in the situation.
[...]
No. The only way this person should be punished is have some guard chase him screaming "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!" and have him pay off the guard. Why? BECAUSE IT'S FREAKING ELDER SCROLLS!
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dpayne83_ESO✭✭✭So here's what I got from the OP:
Scamming is bad, mmkay. If you fall for a scam you're an idiot, but you have a right to report them for scamming you. However, I feel that regardless of the ToS, scammers should not be banned but be punished by an ingame method. I shall call, it RP'ing a thief.
That about sum it up? Couple things make what you suggest difficult. For starters, how do you build in a system like that without the player base abusing it? I mean, Mortal Online had a system in the first towns where you could call a guard but only if you were being attacked. What would it involve? A flagging mechanism? Again, it opens up a system to player abuse such as randomly flagging a player a thief even though they would be innocent.
Heck, if we're RP'ing thieves lets throw some pick pocketing abilities since that's obviously what thieves do; steal what they want without any care for the player. Make sure that the thief has full access to whatever the player has on them. "Oh did I steal that Daedric Motif book right before you were gonna sell it for 60k? Too bad. I'm a thief and perfectly safe from any action outside the game. What 15k gold repair, I'll just deduct it from the 60k I just made from selling a Daedric Motif book."
See where this is going? To say that scammers should only be punished in game because they're "RP'ing" opens up loopholes for other nefarious activities. We should care more about the community that. Yeah, there are some dirty players out there who are in it simply for the financial gain. But I'd like to think that we actually have some decent people who quest alongside us who know the difference from right or wrong.
If someone got scammed out of 30k because they wanted the bite and someone was that much of a D-bag to just take the money, run, and log then I am all for banning someone who thinks that behavior is okay. They screwed a player out of their valuable in-game currency so I only think it fair they should pay another $60 out of game to compensate for their behavior if they want to play again.
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Kyosji✭✭✭dpayne83_ESO wrote: »So here's what I got from the OP:
Scamming is bad, mmkay. If you fall for a scam you're an idiot, but you have a right to report them for scamming you. However, I feel that regardless of the ToS, scammers should not be banned but be punished by an ingame method. I shall call, it RP'ing a thief.
That about sum it up? Couple things make what you suggest difficult. For starters, how do you build in a system like that without the player base abusing it? I mean, Mortal Online had a system in the first towns where you could call a guard but only if you were being attacked. What would it involve? A flagging mechanism? Again, it opens up a system to player abuse such as randomly flagging a player a thief even though they would be innocent.
Heck, if we're RP'ing thieves lets throw some pick pocketing abilities since that's obviously what thieves do; steal what they want without any care for the player. Make sure that the thief has full access to whatever the player has on them. "Oh did I steal that Daedric Motif book right before you were gonna sell it for 60k? Too bad. I'm a thief and perfectly safe from any action outside the game. What 15k gold repair, I'll just deduct it from the 60k I just made from selling a Daedric Motif book."
See where this is going? To say that scammers should only be punished in game because they're "RP'ing" opens up loopholes for other nefarious activities. We should care more about the community that. Yeah, there are some dirty players out there who are in it simply for the financial gain. But I'd like to think that we actually have some decent people who quest alongside us who know the difference from right or wrong.
If someone got scammed out of 30k because they wanted the bite and someone was that much of a D-bag to just take the money, run, and log then I am all for banning someone who thinks that behavior is okay. They screwed a player out of their valuable in-game currency so I only think it fair they should pay another $60 out of game to compensate for their behavior if they want to play again.
The reason I mentioned thieves and crime is simple, they ARE implementing a criminal system in the game. That much has been confirmed. They are also implementing a thieves guild. That was the only reason I posted what I did. I'm sorry everyone got their panties in a twist over what I wrote, but I had my reasons to do so. People can get all pissed at my comments if they want, but it doesn't change the fact that I MAY be right in this instance. If they want to implement a crime system, as they have confirmed on, wouldn't it make sense to use it for situations like this? Maybe put a bounty on their head (another thing I heard would be possible in the future), or make him unfriendly in towns? It's not like the game mechanics COULDN'T do this, as all it takes is a simple flag that we've all experienced in this game.
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Turial✭✭✭The only way this person should be punished is have some guard chase him screaming "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!" and have him pay off the guard. Why? BECAUSE IT'S FREAKING ELDER SCROLLS!
Dear Jesus, I hope this becomes a suggestion - report player for scamming and guards automatically show up and start attacking him unless he pays for his crime lol."Neither a 'Borrower nor a Lender' be."
Never Forget
I think you have not been on the internet long enough until you have been rick-rolled.
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.Please check out Enchanting Alchemy - A Progression Guild0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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This, you have no guarantee that the seller will bite you or even can.Yea dude, no where does it say "charging for a vampire bite is bannable." I'm not saying I agree with it, but the game follows a "Buyers beware Policy" If you're giving someone gold regardless of what they say, you're just giving them gold. Be smart with your money guys.
If some group is killing off vampires so you can't get bitten and then offer bites for payment, assume scamers as they can only bite once.
As many people want to pay they have already probably bitten somebody and continue to scam as they cant bite again yet.
Probably safer to buy from random WTS as they are not an organized setup.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0
