So, where's the choice in this game?

yodased

uhm.

Discovering new area: XP
opening chest: XP
grinding monsters:XP
doing quests: xp
finishing dungeons: xp
killing boss in public dungeon: xp

The adventure is the journey, not the destination.

BETAOPTICS

yodased wrote: »

uhm.

Discovering new area: XP
opening chest: XP
grinding monsters:XP
doing quests: xp
finishing dungeons: xp
killing boss in public dungeon: xp

The adventure is the journey, not the destination.

I think you missed the point there. Yes, you get experience from almost all resources but how much you get and how effective it is compared to alternative methods is a whole different thing all together. And for a player who cares about levels as much as he does, I imagine this is highly limiting what ESO does.

Adlerson

I agree with the OP, in a sense. I don't obsess about levelling (I play 1 character, and he's 32 now), but I don't like the sense of 'theme park tunneling' the game has. I want more choice, more sandbox. That's what ES has going for it, isn't it? At least the original games.

MysticAura

I'm hoping in time there will be more quest options. There aren't enough guild specific quests. Main story line needs more to it. More side quests to find some legendary item that not everyone will end up finding.

It would be nice to feel like I could start a few different characters and not have to touch the same quests again and again (main story aside) Even with the main story there could be more branches though, depending on race, class and side quest/guild choices.

It's a bit early to 'expect' that much though..lets get the current ones bug free before adding a ton more content.

Hawtsauce

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

Inversus wrote: »

Grinding or questing are basically the options...
I really want PvP/dungeons to give some decent exp.

PvP was giving experience but it was found to be "exploitative" when people were hitting 50 on day 2-3 of early access. Public dungeons got nerfed because little risk= little reward...I have no idea why group dungeon xp got nerfed.

I had 5 day early start access, people were lvl 50 on day 2-3 off that early access, it was NOT from repeating pvp quests. It was beta testers that exploited glitches they had discovered prior to release that had not been reported/fixed and large groups of people AoE grinding in areas were the mobs had almost instant respawn timers. Dungeon exp was nerfed for the same reason, AoE grinding. PvP quests were changed to daily not because the XP reward it was the AP reward and it was breaking up PvP, people would port back just to turn in the quest rather than focus on objectives / team play

DJ_Pandatripp

Luciana wrote: »

The only thing that tires me right now is that my progress has pretty much stalled at 43 in Reaper's March, everything done but a bugged quest that blocks me from going to Dune, so now all I can do to reach 45 and be able to go Coldharbour.. is to grind.

There's literally no grind in Coldharbour. They have so many quests there you can hit 50 so easily. Just explore and do what you have been doing in the other zones.

Hawtsauce

I would also like more options, I would really like to lvl in PvP but it seems so much slower, I know I can if I choose to but the problem is by now there are many who are level 50 and vr 5 + , as a level 17 if I face them 1 on 1 they have an advantage, I would like to reach lvl 35+ so I have many of my skills / passive unlocked so I spend my time leveling by questing and grinding , its not my prefered method but it is the most effective. Everyone says - "relax , slow down its about the journey" and maybe for YOU it is , but for some people end game PvP is what its about, or veteran zones is what it is about.

Kyotee0071

Fidelio wrote: »

After almost 9 years, i am still totally obsessed with leveling a character in World of Warcraft, why? Because its easy accessible, sometimes i do pvp, most of the time dungeons and also some questing, everything offers me a decent amount of experience, i have the choice, its uncomplicated and doesn't feel like work (e.g. quest windows vs. clicking through dialogues endlessly)

Once again someone wanting it all now on a freshly released game.

Since you bring up World of Warcraft and say almost 9 years. I would assume you knew the points I will now boldly point out to you.

When World of Warcraft launched it did not have the said choices you are listing. World of Warcraft had no battlegrounds at release. They were added a good ways into the game. It also added arenas much later. The only PVP to be had was World PVP. Folks met at Tarren Mill or Crossroads and had Horde vs Alliance battles. Guess what? There was no reward for it. No experience from killing someone, and Honor points weren't even in the game yet. So keep that in mind.

Next

The only way to level in World of Warcraft at launch was to quest or grind mobs, and do dungeons. There was one 40 man raid to do at endgame. And every class looked the same visually meaning : level 60 warriors in endgame gear looked the same as the next level 50 warrior.. Oh yeah the level cap was only level 60 by the way. You did the same quest over and over again at launch if you wanted to level alternate characters in the same area.

Next

Complaining about having to go through dialogue in quest? You have to do the same in WoW minus the voice overs and awesome npc animations. I fail to see your point here. Yes wow has an option to quickly avoid the quest text, but you can do the same here in ESO.

WoW did not have PVP gear.
WoW did not have Battlegrouds/Arenas or any viable PVP option like ESO does.
WoW did not hand out experience like girl scout cookies. It actually took quite a while to grind to level 60. Leveling in the game now is way faster.

People like you should really have a clue what you are complaining about. World of Warcraft has been out since 2004...Read that again...2004 - 10 years. It has developed into the game it is today over many expansions and tweaks.

You see that is how MMORPG's work. They get launched with a basic Idea of what the developers want. Then as time goes by, as patches hit, as expansions hit - the game fleshes out. They learn as they go. In most cases the games improve. They add little tweaks to make the game more player friendly. They add new continents, new races, new dungeons, new quest, new raids and more. Heck we might even end up on those big shiny moons you see in the night sky, trust me it's happened in other MMO's.

My advice..."chillax"...let the game evolve. This game has been out 11 days, not 10 years like the game you like to compare it to.

dpayne83_ESO

To the OP, there's choices everywhere. But you're more concerned with the choice of where to get XP for leveling. This is a story driven game so yes, most of the XP is gained from doing quests. You can grind mobs but it just gets tedious and painful. You can get XP from dungeons, if you don't have a horribly over-level person in your group, and even then it's just the same as XP from grinding mobs. Can't get XP from PvP because it's scaled to 50 (Mobs are really the only place you see it because if you're a lvl 17 going against a Vet 1 or Vet 2, you will die). You technically get XP for crafting but only in crafting skills. Sorry it can't be like Everquest 2 where you can level crafting and you can do that for the entirety of the game.

Laura

most of the people that are already v10 didn't get there by questing. I don't know that the alternative is all that great (grinding)

I'd like to see alternatives too like successfully sneaking by something gives you a bonus or something.

BigDumbViking

OP lost me when he said he liked leveling toons in WOW. As was stated above, the grind in early WOW was aweful. I particularly recall that 40-50 was a damn nightmare in Vanilla.

Even after the BG's opened, you couldn't level by doing them. They gave no XP, which is why people would "TWINK" lvl 19/29/39 characters and gear them to the teeth, so they could own the lowbie brackets.

Grenoir

OK the OP is totally right! An lets be honest and admit it. Ieveling defines RPGs so don't go into this BS talk about just lay back and enjoy the game. Maybe I would but guess what I am not the one to enjoy running around in one little zone AND if I want to go run around in another zone, guess what? I have to level. This is not skyrim and you cant just lay back and enjoy:
crafting is dependent on lvls (skill levels) that cannot be achieved through "lay back" playstyle;
Roleplaying... please! emotes are great but that's all it is to it really (at least I don't see anything else);
Every other bit of content is also restricted to levels: dungeons (public and group) exploration, pvp, even hunting for books ffs! Somebody mentioned that lvl is not important and you can be as viable at lvl 10 as you are at 40 uhm... there is a thing called attributes that majorly impact your efficiency and guess what they stack with lvling.

So after we realize that lvling is everything (in this game and in RPGs in general) it is progress of your character essentially. There is really no choice as of now on how I want to progress my character. The sidequests are supposed to give you the choice (choose number 1 oout of 5 other ones to reach this level) but the critical lack of these quests (and I mean true elaborate quests, not some stupid *** like find my pig mister) combined with the current amount of xp they give force the normal player (non-grinder) to go through all of them in order to PROGRESS.
Once its a blast. I don't mind doing everything because im interested. Second time... okay still pretty enjoyable. Three and more you are like maaan... just to think of it: "I actually thought this time its going to be different" (not like other MMOs).

So please don't be ignorant and understand the main idea and complain of the OP as he is totally right and while I appreciate the endgame content they should also think of expanding the amount of quests they have for each zone.

Fidelio

@Viking: I am sorry, what? You compare WoW's release with a release today and say, it is allowed to do the same failures again? With that logic, cars would still stuck in the early 20s, you do realize that, do you? A company that produces an AAA MMORPG can learn from other games, their failures and develop it, not do the same mistakes again.

Example: Grind, too many quests for lesser actual gameplay choices (my point actually), too little value to dungeons/pvp/crafting, no variety in the way YOU can develop your character. I mean, these things are standard today in well crafted games and Zenimax always talked about choice and development and what other crazy things ... and now we got a tunnel system, of course its open world (to wander around) but what the heck with it when you have to do everything anyway?

And when i say, i like to level in WoW i really mean it (of course i am not leveling 10 chars in a month...) but it offers much more freedom, i always have the feeling of being free with my character, quite the opposite of TESO and thats my complain. Freedom isn't really hard to create, i mean, all the aspects are in the game, its just poor game design for the moment (hopefully).

SuperScrubby

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

Inversus wrote: »

Grinding or questing are basically the options...
I really want PvP/dungeons to give some decent exp.

PvP was giving experience but it was found to be "exploitative" when people were hitting 50 on day 2-3 of early access. Public dungeons got nerfed because little risk= little reward...I have no idea why group dungeon xp got nerfed.

I kinda get public dungeon nerfs, but it's really no different than open world killing. There's almost no risk in that either but it gives a *** more exp. Just sucks when people abuse stuff. Pretty soon aoe grinding will be nerfed and we'll all have to literally quest (which is how I lvl up btw).

But I really do wish there were ways to level up besides questing and aoe grinding. I enjoy group mechanics and playing with others. This game doesn't reward that at all, makes everything very solo oriented. I personally don't want to grind an alt because I hate alts. I don't like the idea of having to create a brand new character to level something up and go through boring quests that I've done before. Yes it's a time sink, but in the current state of this game, unless you want to aoe grind or quest grind it's still pretty long.

SadisticSavior

Grenoir wrote: »

OK the OP is totally right! An lets be honest and admit it. Ieveling defines RPGs so don't go into this BS talk about just lay back and enjoy the game.

So the point of the game to you is to grind levels? (Not judging you, just asking)

Grenoir wrote: »

crafting is dependent on lvls (skill levels) that cannot be achieved through "lay back" playstyle

No it isn't. It's dependent on skill points. As long as you can get the points for your skills (and you don't need many of them) and the materials, you can level your crafting completely independently. The skill levels themselves can be advanced merely through trade and gathering...you don't need to kill anything.

You can get skill points via skyshards and exploring. You do not need to PvE or PvP.

Grenoir wrote: »

So after we realize that lvling is everything (in this game and in RPGs in general) it is progress of your character essentially. There is really no choice as of now on how I want to progress my character.

Sure there is. Exploring, PvE quests, and PvP. There is at least 3 ways to advance your character, and I am probably missing others.

SadisticSavior

Fidelio wrote: »

And when i say, i like to level in WoW i really mean it (of course i am not leveling 10 chars in a month...) but it offers much more freedom, i always have the feeling of being free with my character

I felt the exact opposite playing WoW. It felt like a conveyor belt...I was following the exact same path as everyone else (becuase you had to, or you could not compete with them). I even looked like everyone else.

Soul_of_Wrath

Curly wrote: »

Fidelio wrote: »

Hey fellows,

... After almost 9 years, i am still totally obsessed with leveling a character in World of Warcraft, why? Because its easy accessible, sometimes i do pvp, most of the time dungeons and also some questing, everything offers me a decent amount of experience, i have the choice, its uncomplicated and doesn't feel like work (e.g. quest windows vs. clicking through dialogues endlessly)

Just imagine how happy you will be with this game 9 years from now. LOL

I was at launch day in WOW and I feel this game is much better than WOW was at launch. For me anyway.

It really isn't fair to compare ESO to WoW's launch, that was forever ago. ESO is a modern MMO and should be held to a higher standard.

As much as I know many on these forums just love to hate on WoW, they provide a quality product that millions of people still pay for every month. ESO is a lot of fun but is at best a niche MMO.

Edit: typo

repflope

dpayne83_ESO wrote: »

To the OP, there's choices everywhere. But you're more concerned with the choice of where to get XP for leveling. This is a story driven game so yes, most of the XP is gained from doing quests. You can grind mobs but it just gets tedious and painful. You can get XP from dungeons, if you don't have a horribly over-level person in your group, and even then it's just the same as XP from grinding mobs. Can't get XP from PvP because it's scaled to 50 (Mobs are really the only place you see it because if you're a lvl 17 going against a Vet 1 or Vet 2, you will die). You technically get XP for crafting but only in crafting skills. Sorry it can't be like Everquest 2 where you can level crafting and you can do that for the entirety of the game.

ES games rewarded and developed your characters using your skills and exploring. ESO is different and because it steps so far from ES ideology you will always find people that hate the game for that fact.

Fidelio

Now please, where did i say i hate this game? Quite the opposite is the fact actually, you just need to read properly. I critized the lack of choice, thats all. I do like all the aspects, but i don't want to feel forced into one pattern.

As of the moment, you have to complete almost (now read carefully here... ALMOST) every single quest in order to proceed. Thats a forced path and i hope, they will improve on that.

Jadeviper1974

To me it is a difference in game type. WoW is a level grinding game primarily with story being secondary. While ESO is trying to be a story driven game with grinding being secondary.

byghostlightrwb17_ESO

the last thing this game needs is more XP, already just by doing quests I have five levels higher than the quests I am doing. Why on earth would you need to get xp from harvesting?

ClaudiaMay

repflope wrote: »

ES games rewarded and developed your characters using your skills and exploring. ESO is different and because it steps so far from ES ideology you will always find people that hate the game for that fact.

Please clarify? Your statement seems contradictory to what is currently in game . . .

I use my skills? I level it up and am rewarded with being able to morph an ability and gain access to additional abilities. My character develops.

Instead of running to the quest marker, I run left off the path to find: chests, mobs, nodes, skyshards. I am therefore rewarded with additional loot and, due to gathering more skyshards, can develop my character further.

This is the same gosh darn thing that happens in every single gosh darn ES games. You don't have to wander off in Skyrim and kill that mammoth. You can power along the quest line and ignore all those little side quests. But darnit that mammoth looked at me funny and I'm going to do it. [/insert splat of character from giant here]

Besides the fact that they blended MMO elements into what has traditionally been a single player franchise, it feels awfully similar to me. I'm honestly not trying to be snarky or anything, I'm just really, really confused by your statement, as it's counter to everything I've encountered in the game so far.

Knuckles19

The difficulty on World of Warcraft leveling experience is rather quite easy. It's understandable that you can't bare leveling in this game. Years of bursting through zone after zone to get to end game in a weeks period has taken a toll on you.

In Elder scrolls online the game was not designed to be a rush to end game. It was designed for you to take your time and enjoy the journey.

Obviously , they're could have been more options to leveling but that will be fixed in the future.

You'll just have to adept or switch to a "wow" clone.

Gohlar

Fidelio wrote: »

Now please, where did i say i hate this game? Quite the opposite is the fact actually, you just need to read properly. I critized the lack of choice, thats all. I do like all the aspects, but i don't want to feel forced into one pattern.

As of the moment, you have to complete almost (now read carefully here... ALMOST) every single quest in order to proceed. Thats a forced path and i hope, they will improve on that.

There is a very vocal anti-choice segment to the community unfortunately. For whatever reason they expect you to play like they do. Anything other than solo questing is "rushing" etc. Yeah, it's silly.

I hear you on the quest grind. Normally an mmo has better options. ESO actually has all the options but goes out of it's way to make sure people don't play them much. I wonder if the people drooling over every quest have ever read a book, the writing in this game is not really that good. It's good for an mmo, but that's not saying much.

ESO is a nice game in a lot of ways, but they are really shooting themselves in the foot with the uber restrictive leveling. They don't understand that not everyone is going to enjoy a journey of endless solo, filler quests.

Grayphilosophy

I'm... I'm actually going to have to agree with OP a bit.. just a bit.
The only way to progress in content is to progress in level, the only way to do that is to slave through the quests.

Granted, they have made it so that certain quests can be completed differently and have different endings with incredibly thought out detail to easter eggs later on in the game

As Ebonheart Pact, there is a quest where once you complete it, you can tell a woman about her (now dead) lover, who was actually playing her for a fool. You can either tell her he still loves her in death, or the truth, and another option I think.

I told her the truth, later on in the game she's lying around facedown in a river, probably suggesting she killed herself.

But even that gets old.

knightblaster

Fidelio wrote: »

Now please, where did i say i hate this game? Quite the opposite is the fact actually, you just need to read properly. I critized the lack of choice, thats all. I do like all the aspects, but i don't want to feel forced into one pattern.

As of the moment, you have to complete almost (now read carefully here... ALMOST) every single quest in order to proceed. Thats a forced path and i hope, they will improve on that.

It wasn't set up that way. It is that way now because the alternatives (dungeons, PvP) were abused to the heck by beta testers once early access came along, so they were nerfed into the ground. So, yes, now it's more cramped, but that wasn't the design. Hopefully once the launch/bug-kill rush gets over with they can turn to reactivating the XP aspects of these activities in a more balanced and less exploitable way.

dpayne83_ESO

ClaudiaMay wrote: »

repflope wrote: »

ES games rewarded and developed your characters using your skills and exploring. ESO is different and because it steps so far from ES ideology you will always find people that hate the game for that fact.

Please clarify? Your statement seems contradictory to what is currently in game . .

What he means is in previous ES games you only leveled up when you leveled up 10 skills. That can be anything from weapon usage, to armor, to athletics, etc. There wasn't any base xp. Your xp went to the skills used and when they leveled up they went towards your character level. In Skyrim it was easier because it was a flat 10 skills. Before then you had main skills and secondary skill skills and you only leveled up when you leveled your main skills.

ClaudiaMay

dpayne83_ESO wrote: »

ClaudiaMay wrote: »

repflope wrote: »

ES games rewarded and developed your characters using your skills and exploring. ESO is different and because it steps so far from ES ideology you will always find people that hate the game for that fact.

Please clarify? Your statement seems contradictory to what is currently in game . .

What he means is in previous ES games you only leveled up when you leveled up 10 skills. That can be anything from weapon usage, to armor, to athletics, etc. There wasn't any base xp. Your xp went to the skills used and when they leveled up they went towards your character level. In Skyrim it was easier because it was a flat 10 skills. Before then you had main skills and secondary skill skills and you only leveled up when you leveled your main skills.

Ah, ok, I get it. Thanks for that, was a little confused Still feels like ES to me, but maybe I'm less finicky.

SadisticSavior

Soul_of_Wrath wrote: »

As much as I know many on these forums just love to hate on WoW, they provide a quality product that millions of people still pay for every month. ESO is a lot of fun but is at best a niche MMO.

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how it is quality. What traits does it have that you think are quality traits?

And niche games can succeed. Eve is a glowing example. I personally do not give crap-1 whether or not ESO becomes the next WoW...in fact I might even prefer that it become a niche product because it means it won't be polluted with WoW-type players.

pysgod1978b14_ESO

This is the same gosh darn thing that happens in every single gosh darn ES games. You don't have to wander off in Skyrim and kill that mammoth. You can power along the quest line and ignore all those little side quests. But darnit that mammoth looked at me funny and I'm going to do it. [/insert splat of character from giant here

[/quote]

When you need to get from here to there...there's Giant Air. Fly the unfriendly skies today. Price inquiries available at your nearest mammoth herding bonfire. Airline not accountable for lost loot or bad landings.