So, where's the choice in this game?

Fidelio

Hey fellows,

i don't want to flame, i don't want to blame anyone/anything, i had a lot of fun with this game but now ... with my first character on level 41 and my second leveling AGAIN ... i just feel ... tired, really tired.

I mean, where is the choice in your gameplay for gaining experience? There is no XP from crafting/harvesting, there is no XP from dungeons, nor from PVP - and i mean decent experience, an alternative to the endless dialogues and clicking through quest descriptions. I just ... i can't do this anymore.

Don't get me wrong, i love everything the game has to offer, from pvp, to group play in dungeons, the story - its almost perfect. BUT, leveling? LEVELING?! Its worse than SWTOR, there you have your tunnel levels, but on the other side? You have a choice in the way you want to level. Group Content, tunnel level questing or pvp, you got experience from anything, you decide, how you want to level. Even in Skyrim (the pattern for this game) offers at least experience through crafting, not even this is the case here. Only ... ONLY dialogues and dialogues and clicking and ...

Don't get me wrong on this one now. I love stories and i like to read the texts. But i also love diversity, having the choice to actually just skip a few quests from time to time in order to do a dungeon, some pvp, some crafting and STILL progressing on my character. But that is not the case in this game. You can't progress without quests. And i am a group player, i like dungeons, i like pvp (from time to time) but this game offers me only quests .. solo ... quests for progression.

Its like Guild Wars 2, where you have to work towards the next completion of a map in order to "discover" new points to work them in the same pattern again. At first, i thought TESO wouldn't be that kind of game and i was incredible happy. But then? After the third area you just get the feeling of work again, you have to complete everything, you HAVE TO complete these "points" ... you know, just like a checklist for building a computer.

Please, offer us some choice in how we want to level, because right now everyone has to do EVERYTHING in order to get enough for the next area which leads to the ultimate conclusion for me, to feel just like a robot working on the dialogues in order to receive at least some of that precious experience.

After almost 9 years, i am still totally obsessed with leveling a character in World of Warcraft, why? Because its easy accessible, sometimes i do pvp, most of the time dungeons and also some questing, everything offers me a decent amount of experience, i have the choice, its uncomplicated and doesn't feel like work (e.g. quest windows vs. clicking through dialogues endlessly)

Please Zenimax, offer some more choice!

Thanks for taking the time to read this, i am looking forward to some interesting replies.

Shimond

Fidelio wrote: »

After almost 9 years, i am still totally obsessed with leveling a character in World of Warcraft

Good lord, truly?

luckyjoemcb14_ESO

I know..at first I thought he was kidding but..really? Leveling in WoW is like smashing my head against a brick wall but with less satisfying results

Luciana

The thing is, you need to obsess less with leveling, and just enjoy the story, I'll admit it's difficult with alts if the story is exactly the same, which for example with an alt in the same alliance, will be the case.

Me for example, I am an SWTOR player as well, and I have no difficulty leveling there as I mainly enjoy the stories that are told, the class stories there are all different, unlike the Vestige/5 companions plot here.

Honestly, I'm nearing 45 now, and I have to admit, looking back, the whole main story really doesn't even feel that big with 1 mission every 5 levels, I feel more like a dominion elite operative then that I feel like I am the Soulless One, the Vestige.

Fidelio

Yeah, i know what you mean luckyjoe, i feel this way with TESO leveling BEFORE reaching 50 with my first character ... thats the problem

k9mouse

Some of the stories are different ways to complete them and I have been told, after complete level 50 / VR 1, one can get part two of the story and see the out comes of what you did in pre-50 quest lines.

andrei_baruub17_ESO

PS. why the F are you doing quests?? it currently takes 26 hours for a decent character to grind to lvl 48 and then start the coldharbour chain to get to vr content. 26 hours and like 6 grinding spots. Other than your harborage quests every 5 lvls, you dont need to touch a single quest. This is not the case in VR content, but its still NOTHING like what you are describing. Go out and find your own way to level and stop asking people to hold your hand and show you what to do.

Luciana

The only thing that tires me right now is that my progress has pretty much stalled at 43 in Reaper's March, everything done but a bugged quest that blocks me from going to Dune, so now all I can do to reach 45 and be able to go Coldharbour.. is to grind.

ManiacMcLaughton

What i feel like you are saying here, is you like the idea of TESO, but you aren't enjoying it the way you want to enjoy it. To that, I say why are you in such a rut about leveling? You enjoy WoW because everything you do shows you progress towards your goal.. level (insert ludicrous current max level here).

Your goal here SHOULD be to relax, kick back, and enjoy some lore.. some stories.. some adventures. If you start getting in a hurry to push past all that and "zomg level fast".. of COURSE you are going to get burned out. Quit worrying about your level and go enjoy the game! This is the first game outside of Eve Online where I haven't felt the need to worry about my progress forward (For different reasons of course). If you are exploring, and poking at things, and helping the people in need around you.... you are leveling. If not, go find a more interesting area you can still survive in, and go poking around there.

I'm not telling you that your idea of what is fun (level grinding and pushing to max ranks/levels/whatever) is wrong. I'm just saying that the point of this game is to get lost in their world and FORGET ABOUT the levels. If thats not whats happening for you, you either need to change your approach and what you expect from the game, or you need to face facts that this isn't the game for you. Is that horrible? No. Not every game fits every person.

Inversus

Grinding or questing are basically the options...
I really want PvP/dungeons to give some decent exp.

Kng_Ayumayuma

Fidelio wrote: »

Hey fellows,

... After almost 9 years, i am still totally obsessed with leveling a character in World of Warcraft, why? Because its easy accessible, sometimes i do pvp, most of the time dungeons and also some questing, everything offers me a decent amount of experience, i have the choice, its uncomplicated and doesn't feel like work (e.g. quest windows vs. clicking through dialogues endlessly)

Just imagine how happy you will be with this game 9 years from now. LOL

I was at launch day in WOW and I feel this game is much better than WOW was at launch. For me anyway.

luckyjoemcb14_ESO

Inversus wrote: »

Grinding or questing are basically the options...
I really want PvP/dungeons to give some decent exp.

PvP was giving experience but it was found to be "exploitative" when people were hitting 50 on day 2-3 of early access. Public dungeons got nerfed because little risk= little reward...I have no idea why group dungeon xp got nerfed.

Fidelio

Thanks for the reply but you misjudged me. I am not the person, who rushes to endgame content, i do enjoy stories. My problem is, that it feels too much like work, because you have to complete everything and you have to do every side quest ... alternative? Grinding mobs on a sunny beach, but that is not my point. I want choice, that is my point.

I want to alternate leveling by doing a dungeon, problem is: the dungeon rewards you with nothing (other than some partial group fun). Doing PVP? Bad idea on that one, since the massive zerg rewards you with around 5% in 2 hours. In WoW (yeah, always the same example) you have alternatives in your leveling style, giving you some freedom and diversity. In Rift you can do rifts. In GW you have random events. You don't have it in TESO and i am really sad by this fact, since it makes leveling/questing feel like work, like a tunnel, a checklist (as i have mentioned).

spawn10459

Levels in this game only open up more quests and instances. other then that a level 40 could have less skill points then a level 10.

Dekkameron

I want to play as an evil Orsimer bandit type person who roams about the Bosmer forests killing tree huggers. but noooooo, apparently that's not an option unfortunately.

luckyjoemcb14_ESO

You dont have to do all the quests in a zone to level out of it, or at least I did not, between Dark anchors, exploring, and doing the quests I cam across I leveled at a decent pace. Also when I was just about to out level a zone I went back and got all the skyshards in each zone.

Zagadka

The story, can't really ask for that much more, there is a lot of minor storyline content...

What I miss, what I really miss, is being able to be evil. While you do run into occasional choices of killing someone or not, that is a minor part of the game, and you are forced to make good guy decisions almost all the time. That is a major departure from Elder Scrolls games. Probably the thing I like least about ESO.

spawn10459

I wish i could be evil i mean come on i go to the bank steel *** from the chests and no one says any thing.

Luciana

Fidelio wrote: »

Thanks for the reply but you misjudged me. I am not the person, who rushes to endgame content, i do enjoy stories. My problem is, that it feels too much like work, because you have to complete everything and you have to do every side quest ... alternative? Grinding mobs on a sunny beach, but that is not my point. I want choice, that is my point.

I do have to agree with this as I also felt like this several times, like I couldn't skip anything or play stealthy because every time I found myself under leveled, I had to grind my way from 28 to 32, because I was 4 levels under leveled for the next zone, Malabal Tor, with having done most if not all quests in Greenshade.

It really did feel at times like I could not skip or miss a single thing, at low levels, mostly during early access, I had a blast in Cyrodiil, it was fun, got decent xp from the kill players quest and I felt useful out in the field, I then didn't touch Cyrodiil for a week until a few days ago.. tried it again, only to see a group of vets pretty much steamrolling everyone else, not to mention the only XP you get now is the minuscule amount for killing a player, since they ''fixed'' the kill players quest, one mob in Reaper's March get's me more then 2 player kills.

Inversus

luckyjoemcb14_ESO wrote: »

Inversus wrote: »

Grinding or questing are basically the options...
I really want PvP/dungeons to give some decent exp.

PvP was giving experience but it was found to be "exploitative" when people were hitting 50 on day 2-3 of early access. Public dungeons got nerfed because little risk= little reward...I have no idea why group dungeon xp got nerfed.

I meant group dungeons, I can cope with public dungeon nerfs.
I'm sure they can alter the PvP exp system so it can give some decent exp, but not be easy to exploit.

luckyjoemcb14_ESO

Unfortunately the evil thing ( Which pretty much amounted to mass murder and larceny ) Does not fit well in MMO's though I have heard with the new justice/law/whatever system I hope for some kind of penalty to robbing every single drawer in the game .

Ohioastro

Fidelio wrote: »

Thanks for the reply but you misjudged me. I am not the person, who rushes to endgame content, i do enjoy stories. My problem is, that it feels too much like work, because you have to complete everything and you have to do every side quest ... alternative? Grinding mobs on a sunny beach, but that is not my point. I want choice, that is my point.

I want to alternate leveling by doing a dungeon, problem is: the dungeon rewards you with nothing (other than some partial group fun). In WoW (yeah, always the same example) you have alternatives in your leveling style, giving you some freedom and diversity. You don't have it in TESO and i am really sad by this fact, since it makes leveling/questing feel like work, like a checklist (as i have mentioned).

As indicated in the replies, you can in fact level up, pretty quickly, without using quests. I'd suggest going to Tamriel Foundry and looking up "leveling guide", and it'll take you to specific spots for specific factions where people can rapidly gain exp through AOE mob kills. Groups will be faster than solo.

Zagadka

spawn10459 wrote: »

I wish i could be evil i mean come on i go to the bank steel *** from the chests and no one says any thing.

It isn't an Elder Scrolls game if you can't steal anything not nailed down.

Ohioastro

...and I'd add that there is more than one dimension to improving your character. Your skills improve with use (and to some extent via quests and books); crafting is a distinct branch, and research is important; and so on. Progress in the guilds is also a separate track.

petikozmyeb17_ESO

This is an elder scroll game, they are about quests. The world changes as you progress. You have choices but sadly there are no consequences, no one will do anything important about what you have done. They must force you to do quests because this game is not just a grindfest like most mmos this is about the story, if you don't like it... Well that's bad for you. I'm sorry but this is my opinion. I love the game but those damn random maintenances.

rawne1980b16_ESO

Luciana wrote: »

Me for example, I am an SWTOR player as well, and I have no difficulty leveling there as I mainly enjoy the stories that are told, the class stories there are all different, unlike the Vestige/5 companions plot here.

The difference is there are alternatives to just doing the story in SWTOR.

I levelled 2 characters purely in PvP. The XP is pretty decent and is a viable way to level.

I like PvPin MMO's. To be fair, it takes up a lot of my time. The XP in this game for PvP is terrible ... not bad ... terrible.

I do like to alt it up in MMO's but I can't see that happening here. There isn't any viable alternatives to questing.

I don't want them to change anything, I understand this probably isn't the game for me, i'm just pointing out why some people are questioning why questing and grinding are the only viable ways to get XP.

SadisticSavior

Shimond wrote: »

Fidelio wrote: »

After almost 9 years, i am still totally obsessed with leveling a character in World of Warcraft

Good lord, truly?

LOL, this.

OMFG how old that game got. Every character looks the same because there are only like 4 total models for each race. Since it is all gear based, and since everyone min/maxes and has the same gear, they all still look the same and also have the same abilities. The game felt like an endless grind to me.

SadisticSavior

Fidelio wrote: »

Yeah, i know what you mean luckyjoe, i feel this way with TESO leveling BEFORE reaching 50 with my first character ... thats the problem

Thats not the problem. The problem is that you see levels as the point. And they are not the point.

But I don't know. If levelling gives you that kind of sense of accomplishment, more power to you. There are lots of games that provide that. But this isn't one of them, and I knew that before I ever even played it.

Luciana

Disregard please, wrong topic. >.>

BETAOPTICS

Yes I agree and to further add insult to injury, if you have done the quest lines, the game falls flat and boring very quickly. Sure it will take a while to become that but not that long in the end.

And the stories aren't that good either to be honest. I mean the only story I remotely remember is the main one and even that feels un-significant in the end. I am just here to roll to never areas to achieve better stuff basically. Cookie clicker is ESO in a nutshell.

And what about their premise, play as you like? It certainly isn't so. If you want to progress in any crafting careers for example, you will need better materials and a lot of experience and how you get those? Well doing a quest to do another quest and listen to a some trivial story while you are at it.

Then those never areas also provide better loot and more of it but this is not the problem, no this is as it should be. It is a problem in a sense that I have to do quests to progress. I can not just farm materials if I would love to be that best blacksmith in the world.

No, quests, quests, quests. I love the quests for the first time around but after that, or in a long term, they become redundant.

Raubrey

I get what the OP is saying about choice even though I am not one to rush leveling whatsoever and do not recall Swotor being any better really -- it was still largely linear.

But even though I try not to compare ESO with a certain TES game I love but won't mention, I think XP for sneaking and crafting would make the progression seem a lot less forced.

Thankfully, I love the quests in ESO (save for a few). But if I think about it, I must complete all of them to be strong enough per se to tackle subsequent quests-- and that takes something away from the so-called, 'open world' play.

I suspect this isn't the first time this has been mentioned.