Great, new patch coming up...wait? you are not working on fixing the mac client?

sithjedi

I'm almost to the point of giving up on this game too. I'm stuck on a quest now and CANNOT GO ANYWHERE. Forwards or backwards. I'm in utter shock that Zenimax ONLY has one complaint filed on them at the better business bureau.

For anyone that wants to get their attention, make it known through www.bbb.org
It's the one way that consumers can still get action yet so few people even use it or know about it.

Moonraker

sithjedi wrote: »

dyoung522 wrote: »

Look... let's be honest here guys. The Mac is a great system with a fantastic OS -- for everything except games. It was never designed to be a gaming machine.

Bottom line, be happy we have a Mac client at all and if you really want the best gaming performance, go out and get a gaming PC.

The game just launched, they'll eventually figure it out but it won't be right away. In the meantime? Focus on what we can do, such as the immersive PvE content. PvP will still be there when it's fixed, I promise.

You're speaking out of your .........

So, you don't agree with the contra argument and turn to cheap shots?

I think the words you are looking for is:

....personal experience.

Moonraker

sithjedi wrote: »

I'm almost to the point of giving up on this game too. I'm stuck on a quest now and CANNOT GO ANYWHERE. Forwards or backwards. I'm in utter shock that Zenimax ONLY has one complaint filed on them at the better business bureau.

For anyone that wants to get their attention, make it known through www.bbb.org
It's the one way that consumers can still get action yet so few people even use it or know about it.

What quest is it? What have you tried to resolve it? Have you submitted a ticket? Have you checked the the list of Known Issues including certain quests?

Unless you post details how can anyone try to help? And it is nothing to do with the thread.

You are more likely to reach those you want to express your opinion via the Customer Support section where the ZOS tend to respond.

Monsoon

24 days. Still no fix, still no official comment about the Mac Client

Calmyron

Whether my methodology is correct or not, it's still obvious that a memory leak is the problem, 32 bit or not. With only ESO the only opened application running after a complete restart, I can watch the available memory slowly creeping to zero where the game will crash. While the semantics might be different and the details are not specific enough, the basic tenet of a leak of memory is still valid. It's also a hard thing to nail down as stevenbennett_ESO mentioned. I have complete sympathy with the coders for ESO in trying to nail this down.

Just to be clear, while it can be frustrating at times, I'm still thrilled at having a Mac version of ESO and fully support the coders who are working on this. I will continue to play ESO while they work through the issues.

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO

Monsoon wrote: »

"Tomorrow we can see it the Mac client is actually updated after the patch it updated."

As I said...not surprised that NOTHING was done for the mac client. Second class customers we are. Can t play in Cyrodill? Ohhhhhh noes...just kidding, sucks to be you but thanks for the $100 now get out while we fix quests first.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/78407/patch-notes-v1-0-3

"We’re working hard to resolve other issues we know you’re eager to see fixed, and we’ll let you know when they’re addressed."
Best PR sentence I have ever read in a while, it deserves an Oscar

So as of today we are at 19 days of not being able to play in Cyrodill for more than 5 minutes. 19 days left until the next subscription kicks in for many people.This means half the time spent in the initial subscription with half the game not functional.

Am I the only one that feels like the Mac subscription should be extended until the client is fixed? Are you going to subscribe May 4th with the PVP area of the game unplayable? Are you ok with paying the same as a PC player but getting half the content?

Monsoon wrote: »

One more patch today 1.0.4...still no fix for the mac client
22 days since launch and still counting
that is all...

sithjedi wrote: »

I'm almost to the point of giving up on this game too. I'm stuck on a quest now and CANNOT GO ANYWHERE. Forwards or backwards. I'm in utter shock that Zenimax ONLY has one complaint filed on them at the better business bureau.

For anyone that wants to get their attention, make it known through www.bbb.org
It's the one way that consumers can still get action yet so few people even use it or know about it.

Monsoon wrote: »

24 days. Still no fix, still no official comment about the Mac Client

Calmyron wrote: »

Whether my methodology is correct or not, it's still obvious that a memory leak is the problem, 32 bit or not. With only ESO the only opened application running after a complete restart, I can watch the available memory slowly creeping to zero where the game will crash. While the semantics might be different and the details are not specific enough, the basic tenet of a leak of memory is still valid. It's also a hard thing to nail down as stevenbennett_ESO mentioned. I have complete sympathy with the coders for ESO in trying to nail this down.

Just to be clear, while it can be frustrating at times, I'm still thrilled at having a Mac version of ESO and fully support the coders who are working on this. I will continue to play ESO while they work through the issues.

just so you know , Chris himself , the ONLY mac developer has spoken ...
just look at my post , and be grateful that Zenimax offer us a native mac osx version , and he have said that Zenimax had beenTRYING to HIRE mac developer for over a year but NO ONE show up ...

jeez , that man is on his own , lol , threatening to unsubscribe from the game isn't gonna help

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/84814/great-news-for-mac-eso-nvidia-amd-intel-explain-how-opengl-can-unlock-15x-performance-gains#latest

Monsoon

I had a dream last night that I had bought a game that lived to its claims of being playable...I was in Cyrodill for 15 minutes and managed to take a keep without crashing.

Then I woke up and realized I had been dreaming.

Dude, I and probably a large majority of people here do not care that Chris is on his own or that he has a team of 248 devs. It is irrelevant. If the mac client was bugged and not working it should NOT have been released, it is as simple as that.

Sure you can play some PVE until you crash after an hour but for Cyrodill it is not playable. Hence mac players are paying for a game that provides half the features of the PC version. Enough with the apologetics. Its fairly simple, the Mac client was made to draw players from wow and to show a multiple platform in advertising and PR. As seen by the amount of views on the mac support you can see there is potentially a substantial number of mac clients out there.

The point is that the mac client was only ready (sort of) for the PVE side of ESO...NOT the PVP side of ESO. Because of this it should not have been released.

This is analogous as buying a car that works fine in town but shuts off on the highway randomly...not acceptable. I feel sorry for Chris but I bought a game for the PVP and I can not play it without crashing every 5 minutes, losing my siege and not getting points while trying to log back in.

I feel I am treated like a second class customer with the lack of support and official comments while some people constantly praise and provide excuses for ZOS. Well I am sorry but I see no reason to pay $15 to wait everyday for a message from ZOS that half the game is now playable and that the client has been fixed.

Stop apologizing for ZOS, it is not our fault if they have a small team for the mac client but it is their fault for charging me the same amount for half the content

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO

Monsoon wrote: »

I had a dream last night that I had bought a game that lived to its claims of being playable...I was in Cyrodill for 15 minutes and managed to take a keep without crashing.

Then I woke up and realized I had been dreaming.

Dude, I and probably a large majority of people here do not care that Chris is on his own or that he has a team of 248 devs. It is irrelevant. If the mac client was bugged and not working it should NOT have been released, it is as simple as that.

Sure you can play some PVE until you crash after an hour but for Cyrodill it is not playable. Hence mac players are paying for a game that provides half the features of the PC version. Enough with the apologetics. Its fairly simple, the Mac client was made to draw players from wow and to show a multiple platform in advertising and PR. As seen by the amount of views on the mac support you can see there is potentially a substantial number of mac clients out there.

The point is that the mac client was only ready (sort of) for the PVE side of ESO...NOT the PVP side of ESO. Because of this it should not have been released.

This is analogous as buying a car that works fine in town but shuts off on the highway randomly...not acceptable. I feel sorry for Chris but I bought a game for the PVP and I can not play it without crashing every 5 minutes, losing my siege and not getting points while trying to log back in.

I feel I am treated like a second class customer with the lack of support and official comments while some people constantly praise and provide excuses for ZOS. Well I am sorry but I see no reason to pay $15 to wait everyday for a message from ZOS that half the game is now playable and that the client has been fixed.

Stop apologizing for ZOS, it is not our fault if they have a small team for the mac client but it is their fault for charging me the same amount for half the content

i played the beta on the windows pc , there was hardly a problem at all and decided to order 3 iMacs just for this game because i hate Microsoft products also i am a big pvp player and i am ranking at 27 on ebon heart pact ...

so the crashing i have been through ...............i know that feel , but its not their fault that no one shows up on their mac developer recruitment , so u'd rather they just cancel the entire mac version ? eh ?

Monsoon

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO wrote: »

so u'd rather they just cancel the entire mac version ? eh ?

Don t sell something that does not work. I had so so much hopes for ESO and really wanted it to succeed but it is a AAA title with CCC quality behind it. Besides the Mac issues you can clearly see what is happening, just look at these forums. They are amateurish and very poorly thought of. Contrast that with some of the quests and graphics that are really good.

You have some parts of the game being awesome and on the other hand you have things that are abysmal. The grouping/phasing is a total disaster. The 1G loot from all mobs/bosses is ridiculous. The lack of AH only punishes people. Bots are rampant. Cyrodill is called the Running Simulator in /zone and it is basically a single player game with people around you...not a true mmo

The game to me is still Beta and will remain until the grouping/phasing issues are solved and the Mac client is able to play in Cyrodill. And to answer your question, YES I would have rather they had not released the Mac client until it was ready. This would have saved a lot of anger and frustration.

KhajitFurTrader

Monsoon wrote: »

You have some parts of the game being awesome and on the other hand you have things that are abysmal. The grouping/phasing is a total disaster. The 1G loot from all mobs/bosses is ridiculous. The lack of AH only punishes people. Bots are rampant. Cyrodill is called the Running Simulator in /zone and it is basically a single player game with people around you...not a true mmo

Funny how anything you said in that paragraph isn't related at all to the operating system of the client.

Just sayin'.

Monsoon wrote: »

YAnd to answer your question, YES I would have rather they had not released the Mac client until it was ready. This would have saved a lot of anger and frustration.

What you're really saying is: "This would have saved ME a lot of anger and frustration." Well, you're the one who's solely responsible for your feelings. I, for one, am neither angry nor frustrated; I'm having tons of fun playing the game on the Mac. If it crashes, it crashes, so be it. Compared to the beta, the crashes have become less and less frequent with the last patches. One day, the crashes will disappear. One day, we will have a 64-bit client.

You wanna be angry the whole time?

Monsoon

27 Days since launch. 11 days to the subscription deadline. 1 client still not fixed

KhajitFurTrader

Monsoon wrote: »

27 Days since launch. 11 days to the subscription deadline. 1 client still not fixed

Please kindly take notice of this thread. Some things have been fixed. Mac client runtime has noticeably improved. Expecting a "miracle patch" to magically appear at a fixed day X is only setting oneself up for disappointment. Be open, be relaxed, expect nothing, and things will turn out right in their own time.

SilverCel

From poking around in the app folder structure, this thing like something similar to WINE or Crossover. Chris is most likely fighting an uphill battle. In order to get a better experience. I may bootcamp my Mac, pay the tax and deal with wincrap.

Moonraker

SilverCel wrote: »

From poking around in the app folder structure, this thing like something similar to WINE or Crossover. Chris is most likely fighting an uphill battle. In order to get a better experience. I may bootcamp my Mac, pay the tax and deal with wincrap.

It's nothing like Wine or Crossover so no idea why you would think that.

Monsoon

Yeah for giant patch 1.1 !!
Fixed an issue were the Mac client would crash in Cyrodill...

Wait...nope, still not fixed, my bad
29 days since launch

Moonraker

Monsoon wrote: »

Yeah for giant patch 1.1 !!
Fixed an issue were the Mac client would crash in Cyrodill...

Wait...nope, still not fixed, my bad
29 days since launch

Not even going to try to explain again that they rarely put technical items in Patch Notes, especially give it's PTS.

Monsoon

Moonraker wrote: »

Not even going to try to explain again that they don't really put technical items in Patch Notes, especially give it's PTS.

See thats kinda weird you know because the first patch I look at I find:

- Fixed an issue with fishing where the game client could crash.
then the next patches
- Fixed an issue where siege weapons in Cyrodiil could have odd behavior after a crash.
- Fixed an issue where the game could crash when selling items to a vendor
- Mac Client > General - Fixed an issue with the MacBook Air



I guess they don't really put technical items in Patch Notes.
Oh wait...maybe the Mac client crashing is not a technical item

Moonraker

Fixed for you, if you really find the word really rather confusing. Just as it has already been posted:

The official Patch Notes rarely include technical changes, so I did test myself and confirm some changes that went into this latest version 1.0.5 update as follows:

source

Monsoon

This is getting rather annoying. First you say they do not include any then you say they rarely include any. My point is that you make assumptions and draw conclusions based on your own experiences and not on hard data. In science this would not be accepted as proper conclusions.

One person's experience is not sufficient. I understand you are trying to help but I would prefer we all refrained from making claims and statements like when someone claimed some small memory leaks had been fixed for the mac...when the client itself had not been updated.

This is not the place for arguments and speculation. When you tell people that there WAS memory fixes to the client because YOU and YOU alone experienced that there must have been some without any proof or official comments, you are doing the community a disservice when you have been doing so much since launch. Lets focus on the fact that we need more feedback from ZOS... something we have been asking for some time.

30 days since launch...

Moonraker

Monsoon wrote: »

This is getting rather annoying. First you say they do not include any then you say they rarely include any. My point is that you make assumptions and draw conclusions based on your own experiences and not on hard data. In science this would not be accepted as proper conclusions.

That you prefer to misinterpret what I posted is up to you. I clarified it and also provided a link to a previous post which said the same thing. I think most other players who read these posts 'get' it.

One person's experience is not sufficient. I understand you are trying to help but I would prefer we all refrained from making claims and statements like when someone claimed some small memory leaks had been fixed for the mac...when the client itself had not been updated.

This is not the place for arguments and speculation. When you tell people that there WAS memory fixes to the client because YOU and YOU alone experienced that there must have been some without any proof or official comments, you are doing the community a disservice when you have been doing so much since launch. Lets focus on the fact that we need more feedback from ZOS... something we have been asking for some time.

It's not one persons experience which is your assumption and has been noted even in these forums.

I've been involved with testing ESO and the Mac client for some time even before it became available on beta (PC client has been out over a year) and take time to both test it in various ways to better understand it. Combined with access to the PTS testing and experience of others also, I share that here because I genuinely believe that most Mac users would be interested to read it.

No one has a duty to explain themselves to you, anymore than it's other than counterproductive that you continue to knock anything posted which do not reflect your viewpoint. That you chose not to believe some information posted by others, it's your prerogative.

I'm going to leave this dialogue here because it's just diverting time for enjoying the game or answering other posts where it does seem to matter.

I understand and sympathise with your viewpoint as I have said before. It's entirely up to ZOS if they choose to provide you with the details you are seeking.

LavaDrop

SilverCel wrote: »

From poking around in the app folder structure, this thing like something similar to WINE or Crossover. Chris is most likely fighting an uphill battle. In order to get a better experience. I may bootcamp my Mac, pay the tax and deal with wincrap.

I'm sorry SilverCel, but you are either just trolling or you don't really know what you're saying about WINE. WINE Is Not an Emulator. WINE is a compatibility layer bridging Windows API over to Linux and Mac OS X calls through custom DLLs. WINE ports (Wineskin, Cider, Crossover) always include WINE in their subdirectories. The Mac client for The Elder Scrolls Online does not. It is a real Mac program, maintained separately, with separate issues.

dpgirl

I've made and used Cider and Wineskin ports extensively. I'm personal friends (IRL) with the maintainer/creator of Wineskin, and know it and Wine rather well, and this is NOTHING like it...

That said, the memory leak is extremely annoying, and I really wish they'd put a few dedicated people on it. I don't understand how easily reproducible client crash issues cannot be the top number 1 issue to fix over all others.

LavaDrop

It's not an issue of financial resources, not even human resources, at least not directly. In a nutshell, programmers with knowledge of objective c are very, very rare. The few that are, are going after the next App Sore hit to make them millionaires. Zenimax Online has been looking for a while for more MacOS programmers, and Blizzard Entertainment has Mac specific Software Engineer positions opened for years without them being filled.

Moonraker

dpgirl wrote: »

That said, the memory leak is extremely annoying, and I really wish they'd put a few dedicated people on it. I don't understand how easily reproducible client crash issues cannot be the top number 1 issue to fix over all others.

Not sure why you think this is not already the priority. Unfortunately just because it is easily reproducible on live doesn't mean it's easy to find the causes or they would have done so I'm sure.

On PTS test server even before live launch in general PVE it hardly crashed at all. In the few mass beta tests before launch it was found to crash more frequently in PvP and they started working on this and continue to do so. It looks like a lot of the issues being experienced during launch period only became apparent under the true load of launch populations and real live play. It's just one of a number of issues with the game generally that they are dealing with, from forum threads and Patch Notes etc.

On PTS now, with a small player population in general play the memory hardly moves even after a couple of hours testing, which points more that it is related to the number of players around which impacts the Mac client the most.

Hopefully they are able to identify the main cause/s (most likely not just one issue I think) and get some fixe/s out as soon as they can.

Monsoon

32 days since launch
6 days since decision needed to sub

What are the odds?

KhajitFurTrader

Monsoon wrote: »

What are the odds?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/89332/patch-notes-v1-0-6

Miscellaneous
General

• [...]
• Fixed an issue with the Mac client that would occasionally cause crashes or performance issues

*cue Pharrell Williams song "Happy"*
Clap along now!

UncleArkie

ShoudenKalferas wrote: »

A percentage of the bugs that are on this Mac forum are likely Mac-specific. So that likely would mean Chris Dillman and the people directly working under him would be the individuals responsible for for correcting them for the Mac client specifically.

Is it me or are we verging in on "creepy and unwarranted" here. He's a backend dev, not marketing or PR. His job isn't to be named and shamed on the interwebs by someone with too much free time who like to e-stalk...

That said I have and ancient 2011 MBP 2.2 ghz i7, 8gigs of ram and a AMD Radeon HD 6750M card with (1024 megs of ram) and the game was a nightmare. It had run smoothly all through beta in the low 20's but now 8-12 fps on lower than medium, several usersettings.txt modifications later and nothing. Each patch just made it worse. By sheer luck and stupidity I came across a cheap high-end SSD (one of those "look we just opened" sales. And lo-and-behold. My FPS shot up to the high 20's - low 30's in world and 40+ easy in dungeons and 20's in cyrodiil with better than medium settings (somewhere close to high). Happy, happy day! Turns out that the bottle neck was the 5400 rpm SATA 2 hard drive in my box, so if you're having issues

KhajitFurTrader

UncleArkie wrote: »

Happy, happy day! Turns out that the bottle neck was the 5400 rpm SATA 2 hard drive in my box, so if you're having issues

Great to hear you found a viable solution.

But the solution lays a finger on a problem most gamers seem wont to forget about. Even 10 years ago, back when WoW was young, some people wondered why their systems were performing badly, even when they had no problems running multi-player 1st person shooters at high frame rates. It's a problem inherent to MMOs, and it's called concurrency.

A 1st person shooter only loads a level and the players' outfits, and the rest mainly happens in the GPU for the duration of the gaming session. A MMO is forced to constantly load graphical assets from the hard disk into memory, depending on the dynamically fluctuating number of other players on the screen. So, despite all fancy disk buffering techniques of modern OSs, the caches are eventually saturated, and it comes down to the bare-metal speed and inertia of a mechanical system. IOPS is the keyword here, and even a SDcard can run circles around any HDD in this regard.

UncleArkie

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Great to hear you found a viable solution.
here, and even a SDcard can run circles around any HDD in this regard.

Thank you, so am I. Now that said I still get crashes and the game would probably have run a million miles better on the old (beta) client than it does now. That said, concurrency as someone said earlier the word, and the bird is the word .

Now the crashes to me sounds like memory bleed in the application, that is a little more common on mac's than I'd like.

Publius_Scipio

Patch 1.0.6 was supposed to roll out today during regular scheduled maintenance but hasn't due to some unforeseen issue. However the patch notes do specifically state that they fixed an issue with the Mac client causing occasional crashing. Maybe this is the one we've been waiting for guys!