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[GUIDE] Tanking Mechanics in ESO
Kodiak
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So there's a lot of threads lately on what it takes to tank. As a long time tester and tank for a number of dungeons I figured I'd dispel some of the myths about tanking as well as give some helpful tips for people for tanking.
Blocking Mechanics
(UPDATED DUE TO CHANGE FROM PTS: 4/15/2014) Apparently somewhere along the way they changed blocking mechanics to now take a static amount of stamina regardless of the scenario. Upper levels (VR10 testing this) this amount is 216 per hit.
Increasing your block amount will simply provide damage mitigation. This makes passives like "Sword and Board" 20% mitigation basically turn into a flat damage reduction for no additional cost. Take an example of being hit for 200 damage, where 10% is reduced due to armor down to 180. Normally you'd take 90 damage from blocking, now you'd take 72 with that 20% mitigation on Sword and Board effectively turning any % of block amount into flat % of damage mitigation.
Cost Reduction also becomes incredibly productive when acquired. For example "Fortress" giving 30% reduction in cost is just a simple cost reduction. This flat amount also makes "Blocking" enchant incredibly efficient as it'd mean -35 cost is roughly equivalent to a 16% cost reduction over all to blocking.
Armor Type
Generally speaking, armor type doesn't matter. I tank just fine in Light Armor and there's many bosses in the game that chuck spells at you as much as they hit you hard. Generally speaking there's a large number of armor buffs (Combat Prayer, Lightning Form, Volatile Armor, Circle of Protection, etc) that can fill that gap and still give you the benefits of being in Light Armor (reduced magicka costs and such).
The main advantage to wearing Heavy Armor, now that we understand blocking mechanics, is that Heavy Armor's Bracing 2/2 will reduce Blocking Cost by 20% which stacks with 30% from 1HS which brings Stamina Cost of blocking damage 1:1 which effectively means while blocking your Stamina is a second health pool. A second health pool that regenerates much quicker than Health.
Weapon
It's important to recognize that as a tank, game mechanics are designed in such a way they really only want you tanking 1 thing at a time. There's really no massive AOE tanking and even if there was there's so much damage from that many sources you'll likely die or be stamina starved constantly.
So for "trash" pulls I generally like AOE bars, such as Destruction Staff, Dual Wield or Bow along with AOE class abilities. Most cases here the object is to do as much CC as possible and keep everything together and AOE it down with your group.
For actual tanking, really do want a 1HS given that blocking mechanics are greatly enhanced while wielding a 1HS. Really there just is no alternatives and while you can, certainly, tank in other weapons it's not ever going to be as effective for damage mitigation as a 1HS.
Taunting
There are in fact two taunts in the game.
Puncture - Puncture is rough because as an ability it costs a boatload of stamina which you also need/want for blocking. It's very easy early on while tanking to get caught in a scenario where you block, then have no stamina to taunt. The reduced armor/spell resistance is nifty, but ultimately if you look at the numbers amounts to 8-10 damage extra or so which is pretty non factor. Early on this is pretty much the only taunt available however so if you don't see a tank without a 1HS chances are they don't have the ability to taunt (lookout healer!)
Inner Fire - This taunt is available in the Undaunted line and requires 13 achievements from the Dungeon Line to unlock. This means completing 13 dungeons generally speaking. You typically won't get it before the 40 dungeons unless you really run a lot of dungeons and get extra achievements (Dungeon Damage, Dungeon Ruler, etc). This is a Magicka based taunt and it will change everything game play wise. Now you can use Magicka to taunt which will now allow you to save Stamina to block. It's also a ranged taunt and can be morphed into Inner Beast which gives you 28m range and on top of that also reduces it's cost.
Your Role
Generally speaking I like to do as much AOE CC as possible on trash pulls (in my case I use Talons) and whatever AOE I can fit in. My bar tends to be Destro Staff since I am rocking Light Armor. I try to slip into the back to interrupt healers if I see them and otherwise just keep everything AOE Rooted as much as possible. If there's a big mob (Lurcher, Centurion, etc) then I tend to grab that and let others AOE instead. Trash in this game was meant to be AOE'd and not tanked and you just gotta accept that. By doing AOE CC you prevent the trash getting to your healer which is an acceptable solution.
Against bosses of course I primarily taunt and do my best to stay out of bad areas as well as managing my block. Managing block and when to block and when not to block is pretty important. If you just block the whole time you will have no stamina what so ever. Eventually you learn a rotation of what to eat and what not to eat as well as recognizing when the boss is going to do something bad to you. For example there's really no televised attack on Bogdan in Elden Hollow VR10 when he does his flame breath but not blocking it is around 1500 damage so you gotta learn to just kinda time it out and when he's going to do it and ride block till he does then ease up a bit and regen Stamina eating some hits.
Stamina Management (blocking, dodging, debuffing with Low Slash) is pretty much the entire job.
Edited by Kodiak on April 15, 2014 9:17PM Blocking Mechanics
(UPDATED DUE TO CHANGE FROM PTS: 4/15/2014) Apparently somewhere along the way they changed blocking mechanics to now take a static amount of stamina regardless of the scenario. Upper levels (VR10 testing this) this amount is 216 per hit.
Increasing your block amount will simply provide damage mitigation. This makes passives like "Sword and Board" 20% mitigation basically turn into a flat damage reduction for no additional cost. Take an example of being hit for 200 damage, where 10% is reduced due to armor down to 180. Normally you'd take 90 damage from blocking, now you'd take 72 with that 20% mitigation on Sword and Board effectively turning any % of block amount into flat % of damage mitigation.
Cost Reduction also becomes incredibly productive when acquired. For example "Fortress" giving 30% reduction in cost is just a simple cost reduction. This flat amount also makes "Blocking" enchant incredibly efficient as it'd mean -35 cost is roughly equivalent to a 16% cost reduction over all to blocking.
Armor Type
Generally speaking, armor type doesn't matter. I tank just fine in Light Armor and there's many bosses in the game that chuck spells at you as much as they hit you hard. Generally speaking there's a large number of armor buffs (Combat Prayer, Lightning Form, Volatile Armor, Circle of Protection, etc) that can fill that gap and still give you the benefits of being in Light Armor (reduced magicka costs and such).
The main advantage to wearing Heavy Armor, now that we understand blocking mechanics, is that Heavy Armor's Bracing 2/2 will reduce Blocking Cost by 20% which stacks with 30% from 1HS which brings Stamina Cost of blocking damage 1:1 which effectively means while blocking your Stamina is a second health pool. A second health pool that regenerates much quicker than Health.
Weapon
It's important to recognize that as a tank, game mechanics are designed in such a way they really only want you tanking 1 thing at a time. There's really no massive AOE tanking and even if there was there's so much damage from that many sources you'll likely die or be stamina starved constantly.
So for "trash" pulls I generally like AOE bars, such as Destruction Staff, Dual Wield or Bow along with AOE class abilities. Most cases here the object is to do as much CC as possible and keep everything together and AOE it down with your group.
For actual tanking, really do want a 1HS given that blocking mechanics are greatly enhanced while wielding a 1HS. Really there just is no alternatives and while you can, certainly, tank in other weapons it's not ever going to be as effective for damage mitigation as a 1HS.
Taunting
There are in fact two taunts in the game.
Puncture - Puncture is rough because as an ability it costs a boatload of stamina which you also need/want for blocking. It's very easy early on while tanking to get caught in a scenario where you block, then have no stamina to taunt. The reduced armor/spell resistance is nifty, but ultimately if you look at the numbers amounts to 8-10 damage extra or so which is pretty non factor. Early on this is pretty much the only taunt available however so if you don't see a tank without a 1HS chances are they don't have the ability to taunt (lookout healer!)
Inner Fire - This taunt is available in the Undaunted line and requires 13 achievements from the Dungeon Line to unlock. This means completing 13 dungeons generally speaking. You typically won't get it before the 40 dungeons unless you really run a lot of dungeons and get extra achievements (Dungeon Damage, Dungeon Ruler, etc). This is a Magicka based taunt and it will change everything game play wise. Now you can use Magicka to taunt which will now allow you to save Stamina to block. It's also a ranged taunt and can be morphed into Inner Beast which gives you 28m range and on top of that also reduces it's cost.
Your Role
Generally speaking I like to do as much AOE CC as possible on trash pulls (in my case I use Talons) and whatever AOE I can fit in. My bar tends to be Destro Staff since I am rocking Light Armor. I try to slip into the back to interrupt healers if I see them and otherwise just keep everything AOE Rooted as much as possible. If there's a big mob (Lurcher, Centurion, etc) then I tend to grab that and let others AOE instead. Trash in this game was meant to be AOE'd and not tanked and you just gotta accept that. By doing AOE CC you prevent the trash getting to your healer which is an acceptable solution.
Against bosses of course I primarily taunt and do my best to stay out of bad areas as well as managing my block. Managing block and when to block and when not to block is pretty important. If you just block the whole time you will have no stamina what so ever. Eventually you learn a rotation of what to eat and what not to eat as well as recognizing when the boss is going to do something bad to you. For example there's really no televised attack on Bogdan in Elden Hollow VR10 when he does his flame breath but not blocking it is around 1500 damage so you gotta learn to just kinda time it out and when he's going to do it and ride block till he does then ease up a bit and regen Stamina eating some hits.
Stamina Management (blocking, dodging, debuffing with Low Slash) is pretty much the entire job.
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UnknownXV✭✭✭Well, thanks for the guide, but I can't say I didn't start a tank to play as a mage aoe farming thrash. That just doesn't fit well with me. Very strange.1 -
Kodiak✭✭✭✭Well, thanks for the guide, but I can't say I didn't start a tank to play as a mage aoe farming thrash. That just doesn't fit well with me. Very strange.
I can understand your point, but no one really "farms" trash. Trash is just kinda in the way to really farm bosses where then you really do want a tank. AOE is jut the most efficient way to get past it and unfortunately most the AOE is in all the ability lines that one wouldn't think as a tank (Bow, Destro Staff, and all class based AOE's are also magicka based).
When I tank I like to think of myself as there for the bosses and everything else is just kinda in the way.0 -
Kodiak✭✭✭✭@mark2472 that's a really tough one because there's very few class based CC's on the Templar by design (it's one of their weaknesses). Puncturing Strikes can be an extremely powerful AOE CC against small pack of targets because it will chain disrupt them. Reflective Light also is pretty decent as an AOE snare. Both however are very limited on targets.
Personally I'd probably go something along the lines of a Frost Destruction Staff and rely on Elemental Blockade (Blockade of Frost) for the massive area 60% snare that you can put down on the ground while dealing with Trash. This caster route also synergizes well with Solar Barrage which will make everyone's AOE hit harder as well. Certainly would have to play around with it a bit.0 -
Sothon✭Good start on that, esp the Block explain will help some new tanks.
But maybe think about edit your first thing about Armor. Because "Generally speaking" you could tank with bosses with Light Armor and Inner Fire and a Bow/Staff (and for Caster Bosses it would be a nice way, like Vet Fungal)
BUT most of the time, this Method just makes live worse for the Healer. nothing else. And this kind of Guides get mostly read by ppl that have no idea of tanking, some ppl could just kinda Skip the second Chapter cause "hey, Light Armor works"
And btw, when you start going for the Vet dungeon, i think you will notice that "I tank just fine in Light Armor" will get you in heavy trouble
For the Trash Talon Morph Choking Talons for Aoe Root with DMG Reduce feels atm like a must.
And Inhale with Deep Breath works awesome esp against heavy Caster Packs0 -
Kodiak✭✭✭✭@Sothon At VR7 I was tanking V10 dungeons in Light Armor just a few days ago. I've cleared both Elden Hollow V10 as well as Wayrest Sewers V10 (and that was with a V6 healer with no backup healer).
In fact there's many benefits to tanking in Light Armor, such as for example as a DK my Dragon's Blood is extremely powerful addition that doesn't utterly destroy my Magicka because I am in Light Armor. This speaks nothing of the fact that majority of the more difficult encounters in the game (Harvester boss in Wayrest, Bogdan in Elden, etc) are in fact all resistance based mostly with their big attacks.
I also use Burning Talons, not Choking Talons, and have no issues.1 -
WarirorHaxSoul ShrivenWhat traits should I have on my armor? Increased item armor percentage or critical resistance? I can't find any info that NPC enemies crit the player so I'm, worried about crafting tank sets with the wrong stats. Please help!0
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Kodiak✭✭✭✭WarirorHax wrote: »What traits should I have on my armor? Increased item armor percentage or critical resistance? I can't find any info that NPC enemies crit the player so I'm, worried about crafting tank sets with the wrong stats. Please help!
I typically go "Infused" for Chest/Legs/Helmet since those give the biggest gains there, and then "whatever" on the other pieces.
Honestly the other traits are pretty meaningless. I tend to go "Impenetrable" on these other pieces mostly for PvP because the rest don't matter. If I wasn't going PvP, I'd probably continue out with "Infused" for the rest of my gear.0 -
Gungner✭1) Can Boses\Trash crit on you ?
2) Do we have penalty for taking damage from our back? (standing with your back to the mob)
3) Are taunts "lock" target on me for 16 secs? (I'd assume "aggro reset" mechanics will breake that, but apart from that) If i taunt a boss, can DPS pull it of me in next 5-10-12 secs, without aggro-reset mechanics that is, again.
4) Any convinient method to learn if boss use physical (armor mitigation) or magical (ressist metigation) damage for their attacks? (and if magical - what type?)
5) do we actualy have traditional "threat" here? my damage output plays any role in boss targeting? or the only means to hold him is taunts?
6) Bosses have "cleave" that is not marked with red zone? If i know that there is no red-cone-zone attack here, can my group stack on me?0 -
Andy22✭✭✭Thx for the infos and ofc we have more questions
1) What CC/tank migration skills work against dungeon bosses? (I assume all CC does not work or the 4 sec DW blind would be op.) What about the "Miss/Dodge/Lower damage" % based skills? As NB tank + med armour there are a lot % based miss/dodge skills, do they work against bosses?
2) What about damage reduction on bosses, do they work and also stack? Is there a softcap? If i count correctly i could use 1hs for 15%, than use NB shade for 15% again, than NB 17% melee speed debuff and pop a ultimate for 60% reduction? Will they all affect the boss and stack on top of the maximum of 50% armor reduction?
3) What do u use to survive the caster heavy bosses? I noticed i could easily "facetank" most melee bosses in none veteran dungeons so far, but caster bosses are more problematic.
4) Are there any area skills that a tank can effectively use to grab some "aggro" from ae dps builds or can u just try to assist with ae blind/root/stun to help?
Thx
Andy
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Kodiak✭✭✭✭@Gungner
1. Not that I've seen yet but I also run Impen gear for PvP purposes that I also where when tanking so hard to say. Get a Combat Log and check. I would imagine the answer would be yes.
2. There's no additional penalty from behind and you can totally block from behind regardless. Immersive.
3. Correct they are hard taunts. This doesn't prevent bosses from doing random abilities if they have random abilities however. There are a few bosses that aren't "tauntable" in the sense that they just continue to use abilities on any random player regardless and then will snap and auto attack you in between.
4. Unfortunately the lack of API data on this doesn't make it any more clear than that. All you can really do is look at the attack and guess whether or not it's mitigated by armor or spell resistance.
5. Taunts only way to hold aggro, or be a healer. There appears to be healing aggro in the game and that's about it. There's no additional threat attacks or anything. We suggested they put in passives for Undaunted with things like that, never was done.
6. They are very, very rare. Only one I can think of that comes to mind is Bogdan's Flame Breath ability and it's because that attack is instant. Same goes for any other non-televised, instant AOE's there's no cones even if they are AOE.0 -
Kodiak✭✭✭✭@Andy22
1. Basically only one that I know works is the Low Slash if it's a debuff on the enemy but the snare/root part doesn't work. They used to all be snareable, but then the content was a joke because you could just kite everything to death so that's gone. Now they're immune to pretty much every form of CC (Blind, Disorient, Root, Stun, Fear, etc etc etc).
2. Everything in this game stacks right on top of each other, so yes with all that you can reduce damage down to basically nothing.
3. I use Light Armor as my base as a Breton Dragon Knight so I am at around 2100 resistances without even 7/7 Light on. I also do my best to block most of those, for example the Harvest Boss in Wayrest Sewers VR10, she chucks magic bolts at you full time and I can't kite her cause we all gotta stack up around here to avoid having the entire room with snare pits. Against ranged bosses like The Lich in Wayrest Sewers V10 or the Hargraven in Blackheart Haven all I do is use Inner Rage (Inner Beast) to keep them taunted while I stay at ranged (with my Destro Staff) or melee other adds as 1HS.
4. Non-Taunt aggro is pretty much going to be 100% to the healer in most cases. You can help this by going in first and CCing everything while it's in a neat pack or pulling around corners so it's all nice and stacked up and able to be AOE'd. Most cases only thing you can really do is AOE CC and assume the healer isn't going to wilt like a flower if one thing gets out (and if they are your healer has problems or it's strong enough that it should be tanked regardless).Edited by Kodiak on April 15, 2014 1:39PM0 -
Excellent guide on blocking and tanking in general!
If there is one thing I think this game has gotten right, its how diverse you can be and still be incredibly effective. You can wear light, even medium or the traditional heavy armor and still do your job with the right skill loadout.
Another option for AE CC if you aren't wanting to go the burning talon route is to use Eruption. You don't get the root effect, but a 70% slow and 30% miss chance on affected mobs, combined with the 3.5 second disorient is huge. It does cost a little more magika to cast (about 7 points I think), but it last almost 4 times as long. I'm personally a big fan and have been using it for all of the 40s dungeons.Edited by sflanagan21ub17_ESO on April 15, 2014 1:47PM0 -
@sflanagan21ub17_ESO where is the Eruption skill? Just searched through ESOhead and can't seem to find it, thanks.0 -
Kodiak✭✭✭✭@jschweitz it's a Dragon Knight ability under Earthen Heart. Believe it's a morph of Ash Cloud.0
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@sflanagan21ub17_ESO where is the Eruption skill? Just searched through ESOhead and can't seem to find it, thanks.
As mentioned above its in the Earthen Heart skill line and is indeed a morph of Ash Cloud.
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Aaren✭Thanks a lot for this.
I had a question regarding blocking mechanics. It had been my understanding that this was a flat cost per attack blocked. Mystborn did a PTS video of it a while back. Was this changed recently? If so do you know if the block cost in stamina is affected by armor mitigation and/or damage shields?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=6wlvHyYjrkM0 -
Kodiak✭✭✭✭@doggie No.
@Aaren I'll re-confirm when the servers get back up and see if they stealth changed it from the PTS. I tested it prior to the video being recorded (because my CLS had actual numbers from actual sources) and don't remember them ever changing it in the patch notes. A lot of what he's wearing or has slotted as traits is undocumented which can complicate the issue entirely so it's best to re-check.
Block is (or was) calculated after Armor/Resist mitigation (so 100 mitigated by 20% from armor would be 80, halved would be 40 health, 80 stamina). You can see this in the video because he's going from 90 to 77 with immovable (armor buff) up damage taken a hit and when it's down and he's blocking he's back to blocking the standard 90 damage in half to 45.0 -
Kodiak✭✭✭✭@Aaren they did change it. Can't even find when or where they changed it on the Psijic forums for old builds to this flat amount.
Kinda surprised they did because the old system was impossible to cheat and required you to make intelligent decisions on what and when to block where as this is pretty much go crazy town.
Either way updated post.0 -
Zeeed✭✭✭Still no word on Indestructible armour trait(one that reduces crit damage)... Do NPCs CRIT ???0
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Aaren✭@mark2472 I like the mage guild morph Volcanic Rune. Blinding flashes is also decent. Neither really equal the DK's root, but you can make do. AoE'ing trash is a templar tank's weak point IMO.
@Kodiak Thanks for checking, that would definitely change whether or not to block some attacks. I have been just blocking everything and hoping I don't run out of stamina, especially with melee trash. They burn me out quickly.
Edited by Aaren on April 16, 2014 1:46PM0 -
Kodiak✭✭✭✭@Aaren personally I don't even tank during trash and just run (Fire) Destro Staff using Engulfing Flames / Burning Talons / Blockade of Elements / Draw Essence / Fragmented Shield. I shield up, run in, AOE root and AOE everything down using Draw Essence to keep myself alive during spike dmg as the rest of my team spams AOE as well.
Even in VR10 works fine in most cases and I swap to 1HS if we get something like a Lurcher/Centurion/Bone Golem.0 -
Fersaken✭✭I tank most everything just fine, sometimes I die most the time I don't.
This games tanking is fairly stupid and you can dodge most of the mechanics just but kiting.
Im lvl 50 in case anyone is wondering. Trash is harder than most bosses in my opinion. But Ill tell you the abilities I Have on my bars.
http://esobuild.com/?IwbgHCBMkgdLICsB2AXAZlpghtsAjAU1QBZZcwBjdU87AM1vQAZVhZ7KQT0ATfAGwl6WYAObZEiWJGAkw2YaPH4wiIA=
Is more or less my build, I am aware there are other things I could have on my bar but in all honesty, I am not a fan of having to swap out abilities pulling then swapping out the abilities again. So this works for me.
But seriously there are only 2 abilites you need in this game to be an effective tank. 1. Taunt 1, 2. Taunt 2.
Thats it, the guild taunt is ranged and uses magic while the sword and board taunt is melee and uses stam. Pretty much every boss in the game can be kited with the guild taunt, then you can sprint away melee hits hardly ever kill you.
For trash however its a little more complicated, I swap to bar 2 for all trash. I pull one mob in which gets me out of range from the other mobs, once the casters get in range I run to them then I root, breathe fire, then armor buff. Its enough of an aoe fest that you will have agro on most everything and can spend time running around taunting anything your aoe misses.
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Wow, so the only advantage to heavy armor is a slightly reduced cost on blocking.
Mind boggling...
I expect Zenimax to take action here. For now I don´t see much going for stamina based chars in general, if you compare them to the sheer versatility of magicka based builds.
I was raising an eyebrow when I saw a youtube vid of 4 dudes in robes with staffs, the tank switching to S&B occasionally, breezing through a VR dungeon. Now I´m just concerned whether this game is elder scrolls or should be renamed in caster scrolls.2 -
Getorix✭✭✭Really hate hearing about the just aoe everything cluster F, that's what I hated about nvwn online and I thought this game would have refined action combat in pve a bit more.0
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Andy22✭✭✭Really hate hearing about the just aoe everything cluster F, that's what I hated about nvwn online and I thought this game would have refined action combat in pve a bit more.
I somehow like ESO, but without sounding too bitter "Cryptic's" NWO has more challenging Dungeons and more rewarding group dungeon gameplay than ESO. I never encountered a dungeon boss in NWO that was more trivial than the trash group 2 corners before, in ESO this happens a lot. NWO is still the typical crappy "Cryptic" game, but it's scary as hell to notice that at a fundamental dungeon/boss mechanic lvl, healing/tanking is more fun and rewarding in NWO, despite ESO having all those "cool" skill combos.
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Getorix✭✭✭I quit NWO and uninstalled it when I got to end game and learned that building your tank to do damage was preferable to building it to take damage and survive.
Gathering up mobs with cc and aeing them down is extremely boring and really lazy on the part of the devs. I like the idea of the dps having something to do besides staying out of the red and watching their meters but spamming ae and cc butons is not a fun alternative.0 -
Kodiak✭✭✭✭Unfortunately that's what 90% of the game is in Veteran Dungeons. Just trash with the occasional boss you gotta tank. When tanking, you still gotta be built to tank and there's certainly some rough encounters in the game. I imagine even more so in the upcoming Craglorn.0
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Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have to say, I'm extremely disappointed that end-game dungeons are tankable in cloth with a staff.
Why even play a heavy armor/shield character?2
