Bots ruining public dungeons

TheRedMage

NiRN wrote: »

Botting is a problem they need to address fast. I don't see a problem with multi boxing.

Except for the fact that the botters are using it as a tool to keep bosses on lockdown. YES they are botters, i've seen more than enough bots in FFXIV, WoW, and Rift to know this.

SexyVette07

ZOS needs to make the dungeon bosses not farmable. Dont give ANY loot at all, just the completion for the dungeon. If it werent so bloody profitable, they wouldnt be doing it.

JS83

It's not just bots sitting at a boss, but I have also seen them running in a group killing everything in it's way on a set path, using the exact same attack at the exact same time. Must have been 10 of them.

It completely ruins any fun, immersion and challenge in dungeons.

TheRedMage

JS83 wrote: »

It's not just bots sitting at a boss, but I have also seen them running in a group killing everything in it's way on a set path, using the exact same attack at the exact same time. Must have been 10 of them.

It completely ruins any fun, immersion and challenge in dungeons.

^^and this ladies and gentlemen is what this thread is about, not the morality of multiboxing.

Zokten

TheRedMage wrote: »

marderforhire wrote: »

Happens in every mmo dunno why people are shocked..

Except for the fact that no other mmo lets them hold a monopoly on bosses. If they're farming resources i can go to the other side of the area. Farming bosses though, you can't do anything about it. Can't go to another area for that.

Plenty of MMOs let players/groups/guilds hold a monopoly on bosses, nodes, etc, etc

JS83 wrote: »

It's not just bots sitting at a boss, but I have also seen them running in a group killing everything in it's way on a set path, using the exact same attack at the exact same time. Must have been 10 of them.

It completely ruins any fun, immersion and challenge in dungeons.

Fun is completely subjective, it might be ruining your fun but might be fun for 5 other people.

Immersion is LOL in an MMO

Also not sure why people are expecting to go into a "public" dungeon and get a challenge like their is no one else ever going to be in there.

nerevarine1138

Zokten wrote: »

Plenty of MMOs let players/groups/guilds hold a monopoly on bosses, nodes, etc, etc
...

Fun is completely subjective, it might be ruining your fun but might be fun for 5 other people.

Immersion is LOL in an MMO

Also not sure why people are expecting to go into a "public" dungeon and get a challenge like their is no one else ever going to be in there.

It's not about the fabled "immersion" factor. It's about being able to actually play the game without griefers, which is exactly what these people are. Regardless of whether "it happens all the time in other MMOs," it's not a good thing. The game isn't meant to be played that way, and it ruins it for the vast majority of players.

knightblaster

TheRedMage wrote: »

Glad to hear they nerfed the xp, i recall that being a leveling tactic in the beta, along with farming them for gems (to vendor for gold) before they made them into 0 gold crafting mats.

I honestly think that public group content in MMOs is very hard to balance. Either it becomes so lucrative that players camp it nonstop, or it becomes marginally less lucrative than doing something else, and it becomes depopulated. It seems like it's very hard to strike a middle ground.

Now, they could simply place a flat limit on the looting of the boss -- you get one loot, and that's that. No farming. Or they could introduce other measures like you suggest to move in that direction in a less draconian way. I don't have issues with that at all -- the current spectacle taking place inside every public dungeon is a poor joke, in my opinion. But I don't think they will do much about it.

knightblaster

SexyVette07 wrote: »

ZOS needs to make the dungeon bosses not farmable. Dont give ANY loot at all, just the completion for the dungeon. If it werent so bloody profitable, they wouldnt be doing it.

Well, they could allow one loot on the first go, for example, and accomplish the same thing, I think. Still don't think they will do it, though.

Laerian

The only way to deal with boss farming is:

- Ban farmers who use bots.
- Make bosses give xp and loot daily or every X hours.

I don't like the idea of punishing "normal" players deleting the drop tables or setting longer spawn times. This could be the an "easy" solution, however it generates dissatisfaction.

Zokten

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

It's not about the fabled "immersion" factor. It's about being able to actually play the game without griefers, which is exactly what these people are. Regardless of whether "it happens all the time in other MMOs," it's not a good thing. The game isn't meant to be played that way, and it ruins it for the vast majority of players.

Someone farming something over and over so they can get loot they want is not griefing.

nerevarine1138

Zokten wrote: »

Someone farming something over and over so they can get loot they want is not griefing.

When they're preventing anyone else from even tagging the boss to get loot that they could get just as easily by getting out in the world of the game (you know, like the developers intended), then yes, it becomes griefing.

Zokten

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Zokten wrote: »

Someone farming something over and over so they can get loot they want is not griefing.

When they're preventing anyone else from even tagging the boss to get loot that they could get just as easily by getting out in the world of the game (you know, like the developers intended), then yes, it becomes griefing.

Besides the fact they are rarely preventing anyone from tagging. Along with the fact before the bots really got going you have parties of people do the same thing.

If you could get it as "easily" in the world then they wouldn't be in that spot doing it. That is not the case.

Also they devs intended for players to play how they wish.

So again, it is not griefing.

nerevarine1138

Zokten wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Zokten wrote: »

Someone farming something over and over so they can get loot they want is not griefing.

When they're preventing anyone else from even tagging the boss to get loot that they could get just as easily by getting out in the world of the game (you know, like the developers intended), then yes, it becomes griefing.

Besides the fact they are rarely preventing anyone from tagging. Along with the fact before the bots really got going you have parties of people do the same thing.

If you could get it as "easily" in the world then they wouldn't be in that spot doing it. That is not the case.

Also they devs intended for players to play how they wish.

So again, it is not griefing.

I've been in plenty of dungeons where I've had to wait 3+ respawns to even hit the boss once and get the stupid credit. I don't care if it's bots or conscious groups of people- it's griefing, plain and simple. Their playstyle is interfering with everyone playing normally. Don't pretend that this falls under "do what you want," which never applied to camping spawns in the first place.

Zokten

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I've been in plenty of dungeons where I've had to wait 3+ respawns to even hit the boss once and get the stupid credit. I don't care if it's bots or conscious groups of people- it's griefing, plain and simple. Their playstyle is interfering with everyone playing normally. Don't pretend that this falls under "do what you want," which never applied to camping spawns in the first place.

You seem to be under this delusion that "your play-style" is normal and doesn't interfere with other. It is not griefing.....I don't think you even know what the term means at this point.

Camping spawns has always applied under "do what you want" in MMOs.

nerevarine1138

Zokten wrote: »

You seem to be under this delusion that "your play-style" is normal and doesn't interfere with other. It is not griefing.....I don't think you even know what the term means at this point.

Camping spawns has always applied under "do what you want" in MMOs.

Does your playstyle interfere with everyone else's game? Yes? Then it's griefing.

Does it not? No? Then it isn't.

Gee, I guess I do know what the term means.

TheRedMage

Zokten wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Zokten wrote: »

Someone farming something over and over so they can get loot they want is not griefing.

When they're preventing anyone else from even tagging the boss to get loot that they could get just as easily by getting out in the world of the game (you know, like the developers intended), then yes, it becomes griefing.

Besides the fact they are rarely preventing anyone from tagging. Along with the fact before the bots really got going you have parties of people do the same thing.

If you could get it as "easily" in the world then they wouldn't be in that spot doing it. That is not the case.

Also they devs intended for players to play how they wish.

So again, it is not griefing.

So the 8+ times i got no xp or loot (i have addons that show when i get xp) from the boss is "rare"? and thats just for that one dungeon, i've had it happen in the other three I've been in too where they bots (YES BOTS) aoe stuff down so fast no one can't even touch it. Even if i'm spamming melee and Swallow Soul I just can't get a tag from them. If its a group of people I can message them to ask them to slow down so i can get a hit in or join their group. I can't ask a bot to slow down and let me get a hit in.
.

Zokten

TheRedMage wrote: »

So the 8+ times i got no xp or loot (i have addons that show when i get xp) from the boss is "rare"? and thats just for that one dungeon, i've had it happen in the other three I've been in too where they bots (YES BOTS) aoe stuff down so fast no one can't even touch it. Even if i'm spamming melee and Swallow Soul I just can't get a tag from them. If its a group of people I can message them to ask them to slow down so i can get a hit in or join their group. I can't ask a bot to slow down and let me get a hit in.

If you honestly think devs intend for bots to swoop in like locusts and deprive players, then I don't know what to say to that other than its troll logic.

Not even sure how you got this fallacy since I already explained (quoted you even) that botting is the issue.

Zokten

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Does your playstyle interfere with everyone else's game? Yes? Then it's griefing.

Does it not? No? Then it isn't.

Gee, I guess I do know what the term means.

To bad that is not what griefing is.....if that was the case then PvP, collecting nodes quicker then someone else, completing a anchor before someone gets their, etc, etc is griefing then.

gee I guess you don't know.

Griefing is: deliberately irritating, annoying, sabotaging and harassing other players. Which is not what the people who farm bosses are trying to do.

temjiu

Im in support of all the ideas mentioned above.

increase boss Health - biggest. a simple 30-40% increase per player is justifiable imo. make it a reasonable range (casting range), and that will give players plenty of time too get some hits in. this also negates most of the need to reduce the amount of damage you do to gain credit.

On the note of doing damage for credit....I think they really need to include healing in this as well. sucks to pull out your healing stick, heal a few players, and not get loot because you didn't damage the mob and your not grouped.

diminishing returns - another big one. don't make it steep, but make it count. make it so after 3-5 repetitions of the same mob it's not really worth being there anymore. give it a hidden timer of say 15-30m, so its worth leaving, going somewhere else to farm, then coming back.

Just those two would put a huge cramp on the farmers and botters in a big way. enough that its doable for yoru average person to actually get credit, and even farm the boss a few times for a chance of a blue or something like that

k9mouse

Zokten wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

<SNAP!>

Griefing is: deliberately irritating, annoying, sabotaging and harassing other players. Which is not what the people who farm bosses are trying to do.

unless there are gold farmers....

TheRedMage

Zokten, In my zeal I misread the comment i quoted and I apologize for that. X_X never intended for this to degenerate to the degree it did, I just wanted to vent my anger over bots and propose solutions, and to give others a place to voice concern over this.

Fights over griefing, multiboxing, and playstyles isn't what was intended (Curse my Zeal and taking everything personally) and I do apologize over it.

Zokten

TheRedMage wrote: »

Zokten, In my zeal I misread the comment i quoted and I apologize for that. X_X never intended for this to degenerate to the degree it did, I just wanted to vent my anger over bots and propose solutions, and to give others a place to voice concern over this.

Fights over griefing, multiboxing, and playstyles isn't what was intended (Curse my Zeal and taking everything personally) and I do apologize over it.

No problem.

Bots are annoying as all get out. Which is why I like to mess with them from pvp (remember farming them in GW2 when they ran around one of the WvW areas) to training mobs onto them.

Also @k9mouse I think you messed up the quoting lol.

k9mouse

Zokten wrote: »

TheRedMage wrote: »

Zokten, In my zeal I misread the comment i quoted and I apologize for that. X_X never intended for this to degenerate to the degree it did, I just wanted to vent my anger over bots and propose solutions, and to give others a place to voice concern over this.

Fights over griefing, multiboxing, and playstyles isn't what was intended (Curse my Zeal and taking everything personally) and I do apologize over it.

No problem.

Bots are annoying as all get out. Which is why I like to mess with them from pvp (remember farming them in GW2 when they ran around one of the WvW areas) to training mobs onto them.

Also @k9mouse I think you messed up the quoting lol.

@‌ Zokten
Sorry, didn't mean to do that. ~Blames her big paws~ Anyways, try to get a point across. If one taking over a nod, boss, etc and will let any else have a shot -- it is griefing. Multiboxing is just a tool for gold farmers and griefers.

BOT = code that plays the game
Multiboxing = code to let a warm body play several chars at once.

Yes, they are tech difference between two, but the net result is the same.

TheRedMage

k9mouse wrote: »

Zokten wrote: »

TheRedMage wrote: »

Zokten, In my zeal I misread the comment i quoted and I apologize for that. X_X never intended for this to degenerate to the degree it did, I just wanted to vent my anger over bots and propose solutions, and to give others a place to voice concern over this.

Fights over griefing, multiboxing, and playstyles isn't what was intended (Curse my Zeal and taking everything personally) and I do apologize over it.

No problem.

Bots are annoying as all get out. Which is why I like to mess with them from pvp (remember farming them in GW2 when they ran around one of the WvW areas) to training mobs onto them.

Also @k9mouse I think you messed up the quoting lol.

@‌ Zokten
Sorry, didn't mean to do that. ~Blames her big paws~ Anyways, try to get a point across. If one taking over a nod, boss, etc and will let any else have a shot -- it is griefing. Multiboxing is just a tool for gold farmers and griefers.

BOT = code that plays the game
Multiboxing = code to let a warm body play several chars at once.

Yes, they are tech difference between two, but the net result is the same.

I understand this much, as I sided with multiboxers on the WoW forums frequently against the people that were raving to have them banned. Its just bad people using tools for bad things that give it a horrible name.

Honestly if I weren't so broke when I played wow I would have used raf/multiboxing to level alts.

Gonna go back and edit to clarify that i'm against the bots using it as a tool to deny, not that i hate multiboxers.

Edit: The huge difference is that bots have no one at the wheel, whereas multiboxing has someone in control.

k9mouse

TheRedMage wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

Zokten wrote: »

TheRedMage wrote: »

Zokten, In my zeal I misread the comment i quoted and I apologize for that. X_X never intended for this to degenerate to the degree it did, I just wanted to vent my anger over bots and propose solutions, and to give others a place to voice concern over this.

Fights over griefing, multiboxing, and playstyles isn't what was intended (Curse my Zeal and taking everything personally) and I do apologize over it.

No problem.

Bots are annoying as all get out. Which is why I like to mess with them from pvp (remember farming them in GW2 when they ran around one of the WvW areas) to training mobs onto them.

Also @k9mouse I think you messed up the quoting lol.

@‌ Zokten
Sorry, didn't mean to do that. ~Blames her big paws~ Anyways, try to get a point across. If one taking over a nod, boss, etc and will let any else have a shot -- it is griefing. Multiboxing is just a tool for gold farmers and griefers.

BOT = code that plays the game
Multiboxing = code to let a warm body play several chars at once.

Yes, they are tech difference between two, but the net result is the same.

I understand this much, as I sided with multiboxers on the WoW forums frequently against the people that were raving to have them banned. Its just bad people using tools for bad things that give it a horrible name.

Honestly if I weren't so broke when I played wow I would have used raf/multiboxing to level alts.

Gonna go back and edit to clarify that i'm against the bots using it as a tool to deny, not that i hate multiboxers.

I feel the same way. Over all, multiboxing is just a tool for good and bad. It is used mostly for bad, thus should be ban for that reason. In and of itself, it is not bad, just how it is used in almost every case.

dpayne83_ESO

How about once they kill the boss the first time and get loot they're phased out and don't get to go after the boss again?

yetskiiub17_ESO

In the Royal Tombs in Eastmarch, the final boss you kill has the perfect mechanism. You have to open a chest in the middle of the room, which spawns mobs from the coffins on the wall...quite a few of them actually. You have to kill those mobs before you can even kill the Boss, as he is untouchable until then. And he does not stand still either.

Make all like this

TheRedMage

dpayne83_ESO wrote: »

How about once they kill the boss the first time and get loot they're phased out and don't get to go after the boss again?

I'd say not being able to kill it ever again (which is what I think you meant) is a wee bit harsh, perhaps a cooldown of 30 minutes to several hours?

ElliottXO

The easiest solution would be if ZOS would let a GM go into the low level public dungeons 2x per day and ban everyone who obviously appears to be a bot.

In case there was a false ban the person will write a ticket. Gold sellers will not.

The problem at the moment is that they can farm for a week until ZOS gets to the report ticket and flooded the market already with 5000 items.

cTreK421

I always kill the dungeon boss a good five times. I loot them for potions and soul gems. I have been through two regions and have done every public dungeon and have never had a single issue doing enough damage or not being able to heal the people doing the most damage to get credit for kill. Getting kill credit in this game is incredibly easy. Spam your heaviest attack not your normal mouse attack. spam a heal. you don't need to be in a group to get the credit.

Maybe this is more of an issue higher level but I have only gone through first two EP zones.