Groups without healers or tanks?? Tanks with zero Aggro control? What's the point?

Grimvalor

As far as I have seen, yes tanking is a little rough at low levels, mainly due to only one "real" taunt access. However later on through undaunted line you get a solid ranged taunt. As a DK tank I switch out abilites for various fights, I DO NOT expect using just the two weapon slots will be enough. Sometimes I will switch out things like choking talons for Burning embers depending on if I want to CC a pack, or slow them when another is CC'ing and diminishing their chance to hit. I usually keep both taunts slotted, one uses STA, other, Magica...this allows me to rotate taunts depending on my needs and needs of group.
I EXPECT the group to CC there is no reason not to...If you don't have a CC or group support..go grab some skyshards and get one. Also as playing a tank, its your job to get to know the instance, which mobs must be CC'd by you, which must be taunted, and which need to be interrupted. Bash healers, archers and mages in that order, taunt the heavies with big dmg, and add some form of aoe cc to group. Learn to swap weapons, use/when to use synergies, and change out abilities pre-pull for various groups.
At first I was not a fan of this games tanking, however now I am loving it. It will take a while to "flesh out" your tank and abilities, do some research and adapt it to your playstyle and the mechanics of the instances/bosses.

Bramir

Calvnor wrote: »

People keep saying this game is "a step away from the wow norm" and stuff like that, but it's not. This set up is a complete copy of the same systems we know from all mainstream MMOs, just poorly done. They've used the same mechanics as all mainstream MMOs, but they left out some of the more important aspects. This is not some new system they've created, it's not a new way to play; this is just broken version of the exact same systems. The only reason you're not "having trouble" with completing PvE content is because it's so easy it's impossible to screw up. You can run around any dungeon all willy nilly and still easily complete any of them. This post is about about how your job as a tank feels useless and more like and under-powered DPS than anything. If it's fun for you, you're just easy to please, like a child with a ball tied to a paddle.

You fail to give any details or comparisons, and just spout your opinion like it is gods only truth. I mean...not a single tidbit of information in your post that isn't just your vague opinion about how easy dungeons are. Can't you do better? Or do you know that once you get into the details you would fall flat on your face?

Stautmeister

Tanked up to VR5 dungeons. and its not easy. Its probably the hardest thing ive done tankwise in a while.

1. You cant tank all mobs. Blocking is a major part of your dmg reduction and you should only block heavy attacks or youl go OOS in 10 seconds.
2. Make sure you can survive on your own for at least 10 seconds. either through self heals or in my dk case an ultimate that reduces all dmg to 3% max health per hit (magma armor)
3. Aoe taunts would kill you, period.
4. Most bosses are tauntable, some have weird mechanics.
5. Some boss skills can be interrupted others cant, learn which one by trial and error.
6. Learn when its better to stay in the red cirkle with a block or should roll/sprint out. Some bosses do negligble dmg with those hits, but hit hard with heavy attacks. In this case having the stamina to block those hits helps you out more than the little bit extra dmg taken from that aoe spell.
7. Against packs use aoe CC (DK Burning talons OP)
8. Sometimes kiting is better than facetanking. If bosses have slow animations on big attack. dont run in, run away from them. use the time to get recourses back.
9. Be the first one to aggro and use corner pulls. They are extremely effective.

The hardest part of thanking is actually managing your stamina/magicka so you have enough left to block that big hit, it is also why dps need to learn on bosses to save their recourses for a burn phase. Even though it doesnt look like it. tanks will go out of recourses>healers will go out of recourses> you wipe.
When a tank is OOM/OOS burn phase begins

Edit, im overcharged on spellresist, armor and health/stam and magicka regen.

zhevon

MMO (and RPG) AI has always puzzled me as being awfully simplistic (including this one). ESO is just simplistic in a different way on many occassions in a public dungeon I will be running along toward a mob; the "agro" starts and somebody behind me will lob an arrow/spell at the mob and the mob will make a bee-line toward the bow/spell - caster. I will swing at the mob as it passes me; but I usually miss (probably due to lag) and I end up have to run back to engage the mob.

I am not sure the right answer here - but it is freaking annoying that it usually always pretty much the same.

Badh0rse

kstauthamerb16_ESO wrote: »

Tanked up to VR5 dungeons. and its not easy. Its probably the hardest thing ive done tankwise in a while.

1. You cant tank all mobs. Blocking is a major part of your dmg reduction and you should only block heavy attacks or youl go OOS in 10 seconds.
2. Make sure you can survive on your own for at least 10 seconds. either through self heals or in my dk case an ultimate that reduces all dmg to 3% max health per hit (magma armor)
3. Aoe taunts would kill you, period.
4. Most bosses are tauntable, some have weird mechanics.
5. Some boss skills can be interrupted others cant, learn which one by trial and error.
6. Learn when its better to stay in the red cirkle with a block or should roll/sprint out. Some bosses do negligble dmg with those hits, but hit hard with heavy attacks. In this case having the stamina to block those hits helps you out more than the little bit extra dmg taken from that aoe spell.
7. Against packs use aoe CC (DK Burning talons OP)
8. Sometimes kiting is better than facetanking. If bosses have slow animations on big attack. dont run in, run away from them. use the time to get recourses back.
9. Be the first one to aggro and use corner pulls. They are extremely effective.

The hardest part of thanking is actually managing your stamina/magicka so you have enough left to block that big hit, it is also why dps need to learn on bosses to save their recourses for a burn phase. Even though it doesnt look like it. tanks will go out of recourses>healers will go out of recourses> you wipe.
When a tank is OOM/OOS burn phase begins

Edit, im overcharged on spellresist, armor and health/stam and magicka regen.

Very nice lil post you made here.

Mephiston87

Im a tanklar and i dont have much trouble holding aggro at all, especially on bosses, if bosses are immune to puncture no idea why it works for me. Tho there are certain things the bosses do that completely drops aggro requiring another puncture and/or the puncture fails(no idea why). in general i AOE tank seems to work quite well with my tanklar. i just run in do a few puncturing sweeps to every mob if one detaches i puncture it. all the while holding my shield up and back stepping in a small circle to maintain the mobs in front of me in the arc/cone of my endless puncturing sweeps attacks..

Anastasia

flarefireb16_ESO wrote: »

Your rant about tanking and coordination makes no sense at all.

First off: You absolutely need coordination to succeed.

If one player throws random AoE in a corner, another hits the nearest melee opponent, a third is looting and the fourth is practicing their /drunkdance emote, you will wipe repeatedly.

However if one player roots/kites the enemy melee while the other three focus fire on casters then archers, you can destroy most packs without even needing heals.

Then onward to tanking. Puncture works fine. There are some enemies which ignore it but it's still an immensely useful tool to a capable tank. You can control groups with Burning Talons, Restraining Prison and Volcanic Rune, just to name a few. Threat may not be a mechanic that's easy to manipulate, but you can still keep your party safe(ish) from hordes of enemies.

Granted, the classic MMO dungeon running protocol, where the tank grabs every enemy's attention, the healer keeps the tank alive, and the DPS picks off enemies one-by-one while avoiding aggro, doesn't work (consistently, anyway). Enemies in ESO aren't very sportsmanlike and will target players other than "the tank", even if they're doing a good job. Protip: Be adaptable and deal with the situation, regardless of your default role.

---

Why Flarefireb16...it sounds like...nooooo...you are suggesting we HAVE TO COMMUNICATE in order to run a successful group?????????????????????

You, I and other players have been in enough recent mmo's to know that is literally not a common occurrence. I venture to say in many current, suppposedly triple-A mmo's on the market, if you aren't in a static group/guildie run -- a large, large majority of players getting into pug's are lucky if everyone even says "Hey, hi, and bye".

Or if there is any communication it isn't done prior to the first pull because we must omg RACE through the dungeon. Occasionally there definitely is comm -- when someone does something glaringly wrong or is going through for a first time etc, then you get the "Learn 2 play" bs started.

Thanks very much for your response in this thread and giving some great advice, you're awesome ;o)! Plan, coordinate, adapt, communicate.
Good journeys Flare.

siegbjam

Calvnor wrote: »

People keep saying this game is "a step away from the wow norm" and stuff like that, but it's not. This set up is a complete copy of the same systems we know from all mainstream MMOs, just poorly done. They've used the same mechanics as all mainstream MMOs, but they left out some of the more important aspects. This is not some new system they've created, it's not a new way to play; this is just broken version of the exact same systems. The only reason you're not "having trouble" with completing PvE content is because it's so easy it's impossible to screw up. You can run around any dungeon all willy nilly and still easily complete any of them. This post is about about how your job as a tank feels useless and more like and under-powered DPS than anything. If it's fun for you, you're just easy to please, like a child with a ball tied to a paddle.

Sorry bud. This post is not about how your job as a tank feels useless. This post is about someone who either can't adjust to a tank in ESO or someone who can't understand the skills that are available out there, then making an idiotic rant post about something he knows nothing about. Put down your ball tied to a paddle and read the post title before you talk down to people

siegbjam

Yup

Lenthas

Every single class in this game has, AT LEAST, a self healing ability, do no rely on your healer to keep ur hp bar when u go rambo, and neither cry when you aggro, cuze u rambo'd.

Picture a pvp battle rather, where you have the privilege of taking the attention of some people off your group, not the other way around, thinking they are brainless idiots who can CLEARLY see the healer wide open and don't touch it -.-, that would make no sense.

Xanxarib16_ESO

kstauthamerb16_ESO wrote: »

Tanked up to VR5 dungeons. and its not easy. Its probably the hardest thing ive done tankwise in a while.

1. You cant tank all mobs. Blocking is a major part of your dmg reduction and you should only block heavy attacks or youl go OOS in 10 seconds.
2. Make sure you can survive on your own for at least 10 seconds. either through self heals or in my dk case an ultimate that reduces all dmg to 3% max health per hit (magma armor)
3. Aoe taunts would kill you, period.
4. Most bosses are tauntable, some have weird mechanics.
5. Some boss skills can be interrupted others cant, learn which one by trial and error.
6. Learn when its better to stay in the red cirkle with a block or should roll/sprint out. Some bosses do negligble dmg with those hits, but hit hard with heavy attacks. In this case having the stamina to block those hits helps you out more than the little bit extra dmg taken from that aoe spell.
7. Against packs use aoe CC (DK Burning talons OP)
8. Sometimes kiting is better than facetanking. If bosses have slow animations on big attack. dont run in, run away from them. use the time to get recourses back.
9. Be the first one to aggro and use corner pulls. They are extremely effective.

The hardest part of thanking is actually managing your stamina/magicka so you have enough left to block that big hit, it is also why dps need to learn on bosses to save their recourses for a burn phase. Even though it doesnt look like it. tanks will go out of recourses>healers will go out of recourses> you wipe.
When a tank is OOM/OOS burn phase begins

Edit, im overcharged on spellresist, armor and health/stam and magicka regen.

that right there, that... that is the reason healers go OOM. let me corret you step by step to fix this "tank guideline"

1.you can tank all mobs and you have to hold block up all the time, and no you dont run out of stamina in 10 sec. pop a stamina potion when you are at 50% stamina. dont use any stamina based ability for AoE pulls use magica based skills.
2. yes on this one you are right, but then again every tank should use some kind of self heal if they need it, when they need it.
3. no AoE taunt dont kill you, hold block up and move away from the red cones. this is not a problem at all.
4. all bosses can be tauntet some will reset agro others will have a random charge on another player but will come back to you.
5. i agree but most bosses cant be interrupted with bash so dont waste your stamina on it.
6. not at all, ask your healer if he runs OOM from you standing in the red Cirkels, if he dont have a mana problem dont bother to run out and just eat them with block up all the time even for Heavy attacks and soft attack, a little hint here drink stamina pots like there is no tomorrow!
7. totaly agree on this one AoE root and/or snare are the best tanking tools you get for Packs, with these your dps can ignore melee mobs and focus Healer/caster/Range mobsdown first, as they should.
8. you can use this tactic but you dont need to, get as much cost reduction decrese to blocking as possible get a high stamina reg. and drink pots like there is no tomorrow and dont use any stamina cost abilities only one you should use is the SnS taunt, and you wont have stamina problems.
9. corner pulls are effective but you dont need to, but you should be the first one take agro.

yes the hard part is managing your stamina and magica, but its not really that hard as i have explained, and yes the dps should save some stamina and/or magica for burn phases but only if the boss have burn phases otherwise you should just burn away. healers will drink mana pots as much as the tank will drink stamina pots, but in doing so will make everything so much better.

PS. i am way past softcap (overcharged) and very close to hardcap in spell res and armor, and not overcharged in magica health or stamina and i dont have a problem with my stamina and i hold my block up in 99% of the fight's.


PPS. i am a vampire tank vet7

Stautmeister

1.you can tank all mobs and you have to hold block up all the time, and no you dont run out of stamina in 10 sec. pop a stamina potion when you are at 50% stamina. dont use any stamina based ability for AoE pulls use magica based skills.

How do you aggro all mobs AND have stamina for blocking?
Blocking bosses generally is not a problem. unless there are a *** of adds that drain your stamina rediculously quick. Seeing as blocking take a set amount. I can see your point for stam cost reduction though, il look into that.)

2. yes on this one you are right, but then again every tank should use some kind of self heal if they need it, when they need it.
Thats the point of a guide, letting you know whats needed.
4. no AoE taunt dont kill you, hold block up and move away from the red cones. this is not a problem at all.
Same point, if you taunt all mobs and block everything, youl run OOS. thats 8+ mobs hitting you once every second.

6. all bosses can be tauntet some will reset agro others will have a random charge on another player but will come back to you.

Aggro reset is what falls under the some that cannot be controlled all the time.

8. i agree but most bosses cant be interrupted with bash so dont waste your stamina on it.

Some can, only have to try once and know it for the rest of your carreer

10. not at all, ask your healer if he runs OOM from you standing in the red Cirkels, if he dont have a mana problem dont bother to run out and just eat them with block up all the time even for Heavy attacks and soft attack, a little hint here drink stamina pots like there is no tomorrow!

This makes me believe you play with people on voicechats. Different red cirkles do different amounts of dmg. You dont have time to type midfight. Know the fights as tank, its your responsibility.

12. totaly agree on this one AoE root and/or snare are the best tanking tools you get for Packs, with these your dps can ignore melee mobs and focus Healer/caster/Range mobsdown first, as they should.
13. you can use this tactic but you dont need to, get as much cost reduction decrese to blocking as possible get a high stamina reg. and drink pots like there is no tomorrow and dont use any stamina cost abilities only one you should use is the SnS taunt, and you wont have stamina problems.

Once you reach stat caps yes.. Before that, this is very usefull