Update 44 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
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Combat is broken?
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beriiel✭✭Why would I be joking about that, you think it is good there is a level cap on all equipment "oh these boots are to good for you now, you have to wait until you are powerful enough to be able to wear them". That just feels restricting and artificial. Why do you think that is a good idea here but you would not like it in a regular Elder Scrolls game?
Is this standard in other braindead mmo:s like Wow and it has become standard now?
If you risk going into a very dangerous area to get a very nice sword you should be able to equip that sword! You don't see how stupid this is? It is like the game is forcing you to be in a certain spot and lead you by the rope, you cant deviate to far. I guess that is the point of mobs respawning to, because a low level character might be able to defeat them by being sly if there is not some invisible wall that restricts what you can do?
You've been out of the loop for over what, almost 13 years? UO based games are basically gone, and level based equipment has been around since EQ knocked UO off its pedestal.
No offense, but I hope this entire thread is a tongue in cheek thread.
MMOs are based on level, skill and gear progression to help eliminate "twinking" and give players something to work towards.
Mobs respawned in UO so I'm not even going to touch that.
Anyway, the bow skill line has a nice attack that will both push the mob back and yourself to ensure you won't get hit. If you want to kite, do it in a circle.0 -
VelektorSoul ShrivenI guess you have played a lot of Wow and the other "new" mmos when you say this?
I have seen these dumbing down rules in other MMO:s like Wow. That is why i have not want to play any mmo:s after Ultima Online, except for a bit of Eve.
I dont even see the point in mmo:s when other player have no effect at all on you. In Ultima Online, if you decide to go outside a town you have to be careful, because you could be ambushed and killed by some real player bandits. And if you die they will loot everything you have. Now in these mmo:s if you die you lose like 1 point of your armor condition? Wow, what a penalty. It is just insane.
My first MMO was UO and I remember it fondly. It was also a completely different kind of MMO than anything after it (with the exception of SWG, its spiritual successor - since it had the same lead designer).
While it's true WOW 'dumbed down' a lot of things, the system you are complaining about is simply DIFFERENT from what you're used to. It is in no way or shape BROKEN, just DIFFERENT.
So now that you have this in place you can learn how to deal with it and enjoy it, or, well, continue doing what you've been doing, apparently.
Ok I am glad you played and liked Ultima Online! I just can't see how these new systems are good. No one would think they where good normally. What is the point of streamlining like this? Is it because new players needs to be hold by the hand and told what they can and can't do or what is the deal? Why do everything have to be so artificial and restricted? It just feels like a big playground for grinding. Where is the suspense and the real sense there is a world you are sharing with others? And that these other players in that world can affect you greatly and there is consequence to what you do, who you become friends with or where you decide to go. It seems to do everything in every way to just take you out of that feeling.
When a wolf that is attacking me and then vanish into the air, or runs back while getting full health and "resetting" I don't feel like I am part of "another living world". It is just dumb. I can't see the good in that.
Think of the resetting as the mob being smart enough to understand it's being kited and if he keeps trying to chase you he will die. Doesn't that make at least a little sense? The mob disengages because continuing on to chase a kiter is suicide.
I played UO too and it was a great game but the biggest problem was griefing. Yes you can act like a bandit and kill and loot other players but what ends up happening is that after a certain time, you close off the game to new players simply because they can't do anything about veteran players griefing them. That's why there has to be a middle ground, if you can answer how that would be amazing because neither the easy mode of WoW nor the way UO did it are the answer. It's about being able to have a game most people can play and enjoy without having it ruined by other players.
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OutcastVP✭✭✭
You've been out of the loop for over what, almost 13 years? UO based games are basically gone, and level based equipment has been around since EQ knocked UO off its pedestal.
No offense, but I hope this entire thread is a tongue in cheek thread.
MMOs are based on level, skill and gear progression to help eliminate "twinking" and give players something to work towards.
Mobs respawned in UO so I'm not even going to touch that.
Anyway, the bow skill line has a nice attack that will both push the mob back and yourself to ensure you won't get hit. If you want to kite, do it in a circle.
There is nothing tongue and cheek about my comments. If this is the future of mmo it has really gone down a terrible route. The fact that we are talking about "tanking", and "kiting" and whatever else you call things is sign to me that this is not the direction I would like it to go. I hope someone will come out with a mmo that actually tries to simulate a world. Even if UO is old it does that 1000 times better then WoW or this. This is just artifical grinding on a string.
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OutcastVP✭✭✭
Think of the resetting as the mob being smart enough to understand it's being kited and if he keeps trying to chase you he will die. Doesn't that make at least a little sense? The mob disengages because continuing on to chase a kiter is suicide.
I played UO too and it was a great game but the biggest problem was griefing. Yes you can act like a bandit and kill and loot other players but what ends up happening is that after a certain time, you close off the game to new players simply because they can't do anything about veteran players griefing them. That's why there has to be a middle ground, if you can answer how that would be amazing because neither the easy mode of WoW nor the way UO did it are the answer. It's about being able to have a game most people can play and enjoy without having it ruined by other players.
Sorry it does not make any sense that the enemy "resets" if going to far, it would make sense if it fleed back and slowly regained its health and strength yes. Also even if they are going to have systems like these in place what is up with the extremely small area? I can't count the number of times I have stepped over the "invisible" line and have to start the fight over from the beginning. It is just great..
And the enemies are not part of a living world. They are literary standing there in place until you attack them! They don't really move around or chase other kinds of creatures or anything. They are only there to be punched on by players and then respawned 20 seconds after they are killed so someone else can punch on them.
There is griefing in UO yes, but that is part of the world, we have "griefers" and criminals in our world to. Players have to adapt and form rules for themself on how to deal with that. If you are leaving the safety of the city you should have to prepare, maybe band up with some other players for protection. Players who kill others also get a bounty on them and can be killed freely by other players, and wanted players could not even enter a city without being killed by the guards. If there is no consequence from other players, what is even the point of an mmo?
And everyone so afraid that the "balance" is out of order. Don't you also think it is a bad idea there are different level players on the same server in that case? What if you play with a friend who is double your level, then it will be very easy for you, no? So what is the difference there. I have often encountered a hard enemey just playing solo and having some high level player go in and kill it off in a couple of blows.0 -
Vikova✭✭✭✭✭If this is the future of mmo it has really gone down a terrible route. The fact that we are talking about "tanking", and "kiting" and whatever else you call things is sign to me that this is not the direction I would like it to go. I hope someone will come out with a mmo that actually tries to simulate a world. Even if UO is old it does that 1000 times better then WoW or this. This is just artifical grinding on a string.
It isn't just the "future," it is also the past and present of MMOs. This is what MMOs are.
Despite beliefs to the contrary, arguing from distant experience holds no weight in and of itself. If you do not enjoy the genre, that is fine. But to simply try to argue that the genre is somehow flawed because it isn't the same as it was "back in the day" when "people took things seriously" and wasn't "ruined by kids" is simply hogwash and shenanigans.
Old School ≠ Better.1 -
Shimond✭✭✭✭It's also called nostalgia. Quite a few people were angry and upset enough to completely quit UO because of the freedom it offered players in doing whatever they want TO whoever they want. In fact they had to radically change the game and develop an entire 'mirror' world just to try to salvage some of what was left (and they never really did).
Virtual living worlds can be wonderful things, and they can be terrible things. Very few MMOs since UO have tried to accomplish what it did, because they look at that game with more than rose-tinted glasses.0 -
Vikova✭✭✭✭✭It's also called nostalgia. Quite a few people were angry and upset enough to completely quit UO because of the freedom it offered players in doing whatever they want TO whoever they want. In fact they had to radically change the game and develop an entire 'mirror' world just to try to salvage some of what was left (and they never really did).
Virtual living worlds can be wonderful things, and they can be terrible things. Very few MMOs since UO have tried to accomplish what it did, because they look at that game with more than rose-tinted glasses.
Yes, it is nolstalgia - but people often confuse that with some sort of respect-inducing "experience."
If you could seamlessly put the phrase "Back in my day..." in front of what someone is about to say, you can safely ignore everything they are about to convey.1 -
OutcastVP✭✭✭
Yes, it is nolstalgia - but people often confuse that with some sort of respect-inducing "experience."
If you could seamlessly put the phrase "Back in my day..." in front of what someone is about to say, you can safely ignore everything they are about to convey.
It is not all nostalgia. These are things I would never like in any game. I am not saying all is bad though. I like the real time inventory system for example and the fact that you can see your character eat or drink something. Also the crafting system is nice compared to regular Elder Scrolls because you can't just create potions as fast as you can press the button, but it actually takes a little while (I would like it to take even longer though).
I am just saying that I think this would be a better game and stand out more from the casual crowd of mmo:s these days if it dared to be more different from them. I know many people who never play mmo:s normally because of these things and bought this just because it was Elder Scrolls. I was not interested either when I saw this at first until I heard it would basically be like a normal Elder Scrolls but in a shared world. While it is that to an extent the things like the enemy reset and other things are just infuriating and just takes you right out of the world.
Btw, talking about taking you out of the world, is there any way to shut up the NPC:s? I am going insane from hearing the same phrase over and over and over and over again when I am trying to do some smithing in Daggerfall. "Oh you heard someone saved the king?" "I have to buy that one a drink". I am not kidding when I say they keep repeating that sentence over and over again without pause.
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OutcastVP✭✭✭According to many responses in this thread it seems all restrictions, fake level restrictions on gear, enemy resets and all this is there to make sure the game is "balanced".
But after playing now to level 10 I cant see how this adds anything to the balance if you are not constantly going by the exact route the game is designed for. For example I enjoyed going off route (and I thought this was encouraged), just exploring, and I like fighting enemies that are stronger then me. I began in Daggerfall and started exploring up north. I could see that it got more dangerous the further up I went, but it was fun doing harder missions or fighting enemies you actually had to use some strategy on (the limited strategy you can use with the awful respawn system)
This meant I did some missions that was harder, but then I leveled up faster, and also I got gear I could not use. So then I return to the beginning are as a level 10 character (with a lot of gear I cant even use, which is great..), and now I am doing the missions around the start that is level 4-5. These does not have any challange at all now. So basically you "break" the game if you go off path and do not follow it exactly as it is laid out? So how can they encoruge exploring and going on your own path when you have to follow the exact path of the game to not be totally out of sync with the whole game?
What if you are two people playing together (or more), then it would get extremely easy if you play the game "as designed" because you have to play at the same quest level to be able to use the gear, but you would just kill everything even easier then before if you are not playing solo? I don't get the balancing or thought around this at all.Edited by OutcastVP on April 12, 2014 2:08PM0 -
@OutcastVP if they made every mob/armor level with the character, it could NOT be an MMO. how would they implement mob scaling when you would have folks ranging from level 5 to level 50 in any zone. that is so exploitable its a joke. pull the mob with the level 5 so its now an easy kill mob for the 50? any bosses would be fully broken like this. you just cant have drastically different level ranges for the same areas in a world where everyone starts at certain locations and works outward. your complaints are unreasonable for an online multiplayer game. the phasing in this game keeps higher level folks from just walking lowers through all content, at least for the most part. for an offline single player, i would EXPECT the things you talk about to be considered. while it would be possible to make gear / drops cater to your level. making mobs do that would be nuts. damage formulas would have to be based on player level which in this game doesnt necessarily reflect a character's fighting prowess depending on where you put your points. please for the love of all things holy stop complaining about a standard in online games for over a decade and move on.Edited by elohcin1102 on April 12, 2014 2:24PM0
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manyrabidrats✭✭✭elohcin1102 wrote: »@OutcastVP if they made every mob/armor level with the character, it could NOT be an MMO. how would they implement mob scaling when you would have folks ranging from level 5 to level 50 in any zone. that is so exploitable its a joke. pull the mob with the level 5 so its now an easy kill mob for the 50? any bosses would be fully broken like this. you just cant have drastically different level ranges for the same areas in a world where everyone starts at certain locations and works outward. your complaints are unreasonable for an online multiplayer game. the phasing in this game keeps higher level folks from just walking lowers through all content, at least for the most part. for an offline single player, i would EXPECT the things you talk about to be considered. while it would be possible to make gear / drops cater to your level. making mobs do that would be nuts. damage formulas would have to be based on player level which in this game doesnt necessarily reflect a character's fighting prowess depending on where you put your points. please for the love of all things holy stop complaining about a standard in online games for over a decade and move on.
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OutcastVP✭✭✭Elochin: If you read my comment again, I was asking you how you can say the game is balanced and need these restraints, when I cleary show it is not? And what if you are not playing solo, then the "balance" goes out the window?
Trouvo: No they don't level with you, which is good. But the system is completely different and it works and feels natural. There is no "diffculty number" on the quest you take, some areas have easier opponents, some don't, but it always feels natural and not artificial. You don't meet "level 1" mudcrabs in one place and a "level 50" mudcrabs in another. That would make the whole freedom of the game go out the windows, since the game is not showing you where you are supposed to be at any one point.
And there is no level requirement on the gear no.Edited by OutcastVP on April 12, 2014 3:02PM0 -
Vikova✭✭✭✭✭Skipping quests to over-level yourself and then return to them has nothing to do with balance. Neither does duo questing.0
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OutcastVP✭✭✭I am sorry, but it seems you are the people who does not get it. I can think of many easy fixes that would solve the inbalance.
RakeWork: Do you seriously even understand what you are writing?Edited by OutcastVP on April 12, 2014 4:19PM0
