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Combat is broken?
OutcastVP
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I just don't get this, I am playing an archer and attacks an enemy from afar, then I back up as I shoot him, but if I move a tiny bit to far the enemy just gets new health all of a sudden and returns to its original spot?? Sometimes it even vanishes in thin air! It is just infuriating and makes the combat totally wack. What the hell is this supposed to be?
Also enemies seem to respawn like 30 secons after they are killed so sometimes you are backing up on an area you came from and new enemies are spawning on top of you??
Now I have not played an MMO since Ultima Online so I don't know if this is standard in mmo:s these days? I seriously don't even see what mmos bring to the table, you could as well play by yourself with the system I see in these games, you cant hurt anyone else and no other player seem to affect you in any way (apart from being annoying and completely taking you out of the world in the way they bunny jump around everywhere and just stand in a pile in the dungeons you go into)
Edited by OutcastVP on April 9, 2014 7:17PM Also enemies seem to respawn like 30 secons after they are killed so sometimes you are backing up on an area you came from and new enemies are spawning on top of you??
Now I have not played an MMO since Ultima Online so I don't know if this is standard in mmo:s these days? I seriously don't even see what mmos bring to the table, you could as well play by yourself with the system I see in these games, you cant hurt anyone else and no other player seem to affect you in any way (apart from being annoying and completely taking you out of the world in the way they bunny jump around everywhere and just stand in a pile in the dungeons you go into)
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Vikova✭✭✭✭✭You are kiting them out of their aggro range. In virtually all MMOs, mobs only have so far they will go from their spawn point before they reset and disengage combat.
In essence, you are backpedaling all the way out of combat. Sort of like fleeing, but with more style.Edited by Vikova on April 9, 2014 7:18PM8 -
Shimond✭✭✭✭Typically it's set up this way so you can't kill something with zero risk at all. Still though if you're an archer nightblade you can come pretty close regardless :P0 -
Vikova✭✭✭✭✭Typically it's set up this way so you can't kill something with zero risk at all. Still though if you're an archer nightblade you can come pretty close regardless :P
And to make fleeing actually possible instead of having a train of death that never stops.
Choochoo, ****. Choochoo.Edited by Vikova on April 9, 2014 7:23PM6 -
Kyosji✭✭✭You are kiting them out of their aggro range. In virtually all MMOs, mobs only have so far they will go from their spawn point before they reset and disengage combat.
In essence, you are backpedaling all the way out of combat. Sort of like fleeing, but with more style.
I like the way you put that.0 -
OutcastVP✭✭✭Seems like a lot has changed then.. so what is the point of that? Why should the enemies reset if they go to far (and it is not far at all). I just don't understand all these artificial restraints. It is the same with equipment, you cant equip something because you are not high enough level?0
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Shimond✭✭✭✭Seems like a lot has changed then.. so what is the point of that? Why should the enemies reset if they go to far (and it is not far at all). I just don't understand all these artificial restraints. It is the same with equipment, you cant equip something because you are not high enough level?
I think this was just explained to you.
Have you not played a level-based RPG before either?Edited by Shimond on April 9, 2014 7:28PM1 -
Kyosji✭✭✭Seems like a lot has changed then.. so what is the point of that? Why should the enemies reset if they go to far (and it is not far at all). I just don't understand all these artificial restraints. It is the same with equipment, you cant equip something because you are not high enough level?
I think this was just explained to you.
Have you not played a level-based RPG before either?
With his last sentence, I believe he was making a joke.
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OutcastVP✭✭✭You are saying the previous Elder Scrolls games are not level based? Why dont the dragons reset their health and respawn if you back up to far in Skyrim? Because that would be awesome right?Edited by OutcastVP on April 9, 2014 7:34PM2
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OutcastVP✭✭✭Why would I be joking about that, you think it is good there is a level cap on all equipment "oh these boots are to good for you now, you have to wait until you are powerful enough to be able to wear them". That just feels restricting and artificial. Why do you think that is a good idea here but you would not like it in a regular Elder Scrolls game?
Is this standard in other braindead mmo:s like Wow and it has become standard now?
If you risk going into a very dangerous area to get a very nice sword you should be able to equip that sword! You don't see how stupid this is? It is like the game is forcing you to be in a certain spot and lead you by the rope, you cant deviate to far. I guess that is the point of mobs respawning to, because a low level character might be able to defeat them by being sly if there is not some invisible wall that restricts what you can do?Edited by OutcastVP on April 9, 2014 7:41PM2 -
Shimond✭✭✭✭Why would I be joking about that, you think it is good there is a level cap on all equipment "oh these boots are to good for you now, you have to wait until you are powerful enough to be able to wear them". That just feels restricting and artificial. Why do you think that is a good idea here but you would not like it in a regular Elder Scrolls game?
Is this standard in other braindead mmo:s like Wow and it has become standard now?
I feel like I'm being trolled but...
Without a level requirement on gear, there'd be no point to levels (or variation in gear really) as you'd just wear the best gear you could get, forever. In Skyrim everything scaled to you so your level was largely irrelevant. They couldn't really do that very well with an MMO (though GW2 did try that approach with mixed results) so they went with the 'standard' in MMOs since basically after UO (EQ and on) - level based progression with gear restricted to levels.1 -
OutcastVP✭✭✭It seems to me you have got so used to these systems you can't see the flaw in them? I think the reason games don't usually force this on you is because it feels artificial and dumb. There is no level on items on other rgs:s where there is no level scaling. Level scaling was actually something that was very critizised in Skyrim, since you should be able to choose if you want to RISK going into a very dangerous are and be rewarded for it.
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mutharex✭✭✭✭✭IIRC Oblivion is the first that does level scaling, before the games had level based areas. haven't played in over 10 years but I am pretty sure0
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mutharex✭✭✭✭✭Yep, as I thought:
http://uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Morrowind_for_Oblivion_Players
"There is no scaling and much more limited leveling. Many caves and ruins have fixed-level inhabitants. The creatures that spawn and the loot you find in crates depend on your level, but all creatures and attributes have a static level and higher level creatures never completely replace the low level ones. As a result, low level characters will have a much harder time, but high level characters will actually have it easier. No NPCs have leveled armor or weapons, what they have is what they will always have. Caves and ruins become less profitable as you level up, save for random loot."0 -
Shimond✭✭✭✭It seems to me you have got so used to these systems you can't see the flaw in them? I think the reason games don't usually force this on you is because it feels artificial and dumb. There is no level on items on other rgs:s where there is no level scaling. Level scaling was actually something that was very critizised in Skyrim, since you should be able to choose if you want to RISK going into a very dangerous are and be rewarded for it.
The risk/reward argument kind of goes out the window when multiplayer comes into the picture.0 -
OutcastVP✭✭✭IIRC Oblivion is the first that does level scaling, before the games had level based areas. haven't played in over 10 years but I am pretty sure
Oh I think you were responding to Shimond then?
No, Morrowind does not have level scaling. Level scaling is also another thing that makes games feel artificial.
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mutharex✭✭✭✭✭Seems like a lot has changed then.. so what is the point of that? Why should the enemies reset if they go to far (and it is not far at all). I just don't understand all these artificial restraints. It is the same with equipment, you cant equip something because you are not high enough level?
I was responding to this.0 -
OutcastVP✭✭✭It seems to me you have got so used to these systems you can't see the flaw in them? I think the reason games don't usually force this on you is because it feels artificial and dumb. There is no level on items on other rgs:s where there is no level scaling. Level scaling was actually something that was very critizised in Skyrim, since you should be able to choose if you want to RISK going into a very dangerous are and be rewarded for it.
The risk/reward argument kind of goes out the window when multiplayer comes into the picture.
I guess you have played a lot of Wow and the other "new" mmos when you say this?
I have seen these dumbing down rules in other MMO:s like Wow. That is why i have not want to play any mmo:s after Ultima Online, except for a bit of Eve.
I dont even see the point in mmo:s when other player have no effect at all on you. In Ultima Online, if you decide to go outside a town you have to be careful, because you could be ambushed and killed by some real player bandits. And if you die they will loot everything you have. Now in these mmo:s if you die you lose like 1 point of your armor condition? Wow, what a penalty. It is just insane.
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OutcastVP✭✭✭Seems like a lot has changed then.. so what is the point of that? Why should the enemies reset if they go to far (and it is not far at all). I just don't understand all these artificial restraints. It is the same with equipment, you cant equip something because you are not high enough level?
I was responding to this.
But what was your point? There is no enemy reset or equipment restraints in other TES games, (besides maybe if you are not strong enough to wear a very heavy armor)
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Shimond✭✭✭✭I guess you have played a lot of Wow and the other "new" mmos when you say this?
I have seen these dumbing down rules in other MMO:s like Wow. That is why i have not want to play any mmo:s after Ultima Online, except for a bit of Eve.
I dont even see the point in mmo:s when other player have no effect at all on you. In Ultima Online, if you decide to go outside a town you have to be careful, because you could be ambushed and killed by some real player bandits. And if you die they will loot everything you have. Now in these mmo:s if you die you lose like 1 point of your armor condition? Wow, what a penalty. It is just insane.
My first MMO was UO and I remember it fondly. It was also a completely different kind of MMO than anything after it (with the exception of SWG, its spiritual successor - since it had the same lead designer).
While it's true WOW 'dumbed down' a lot of things, the system you are complaining about is simply DIFFERENT from what you're used to. It is in no way or shape BROKEN, just DIFFERENT.
So now that you have this in place you can learn how to deal with it and enjoy it, or, well, continue doing what you've been doing, apparently.0 -
OutcastVP✭✭✭I guess you have played a lot of Wow and the other "new" mmos when you say this?
I have seen these dumbing down rules in other MMO:s like Wow. That is why i have not want to play any mmo:s after Ultima Online, except for a bit of Eve.
I dont even see the point in mmo:s when other player have no effect at all on you. In Ultima Online, if you decide to go outside a town you have to be careful, because you could be ambushed and killed by some real player bandits. And if you die they will loot everything you have. Now in these mmo:s if you die you lose like 1 point of your armor condition? Wow, what a penalty. It is just insane.
My first MMO was UO and I remember it fondly. It was also a completely different kind of MMO than anything after it (with the exception of SWG, its spiritual successor - since it had the same lead designer).
While it's true WOW 'dumbed down' a lot of things, the system you are complaining about is simply DIFFERENT from what you're used to. It is in no way or shape BROKEN, just DIFFERENT.
So now that you have this in place you can learn how to deal with it and enjoy it, or, well, continue doing what you've been doing, apparently.
Ok I am glad you played and liked Ultima Online! I just can't see how these new systems are good. No one would think they where good normally. What is the point of streamlining like this? Is it because new players needs to be hold by the hand and told what they can and can't do or what is the deal? Why do everything have to be so artificial and restricted? It just feels like a big playground for grinding. Where is the suspense and the real sense there is a world you are sharing with others? And that these other players in that world can affect you greatly and there is consequence to what you do, who you become friends with or where you decide to go. It seems to do everything in every way to just take you out of that feeling.
When a wolf that is attacking me and then vanish into the air, or runs back while getting full health and "resetting" I don't feel like I am part of "another living world". It is just dumb. I can't see the good in that.Edited by OutcastVP on April 9, 2014 8:05PM0 -
Anthony45122✭✭✭With a MMO such as this you have to have a level restraint on weapons/armor. Say you just start the game and have a maxed lvl friend. They give you the best armor/weapons in the game and you never have to replace them. Does that sound like fun? You could do this with one of your own high level characters when creating an alt also. It would totally break the game and you should have thought about this before complaining about a level restriction of items. It is not a dumbing down issue nor is it a "i'm too used to this method" It is simply that not having level restrictions would not work in this game.2
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dread67✭Another reason for the reset is to stop players from training mobs on to others. In some games you would have a player round up a bunch I mobs then run to the zone wall and escape then let the mobs kill everyone on the way back home.0 -
OutcastVP✭✭✭Anthony45122 wrote: »With a MMO such as this you have to have a level restraint on weapons/armor. Say you just start the game and have a maxed lvl friend. They give you the best armor/weapons in the game and you never have to replace them. Does that sound like fun? You could do this with one of your own high level characters when creating an alt also. It would totally break the game and you should have thought about this before complaining about a level restriction of items. It is not a dumbing down issue nor is it a "i'm too used to this method" It is simply that not having level restrictions would not work in this game.
How would that break the game? Have you not played other more serious MMO:s like Ultima or Eve Online, or only stuff like WoW?
How would the new character you give your good gear to break anything compared to you just using those weapons on your high level character. Especially when there is no real interactions between players at all or risk for anything.
Your "new" character would still be weaker then if you just continue to play with your high level character with the same equipment. If you have a friend that is high level and he wants to give you some good gear so you can adventure together. Then why not? It is your choice, that is the point. He would still be much stronger then you because he would be much higher level.Edited by OutcastVP on April 9, 2014 8:12PM0 -
Anthony45122✭✭✭In skyrim if you pulled a giant too far away from it's original area it would run back and regain health after a few patches. They realized players were kiting them endlessly or sitting at a spot the giant can't reach and fixed it. The giants now run away from you if you're in a spot they can't get to. And that is in a single player game. If you were able to do that in a mmo you would have all the players killing bosses by endlessly running away from them or standing at a spot the boss can't get to them. That is not fun or productive to a game.1
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OutcastVP✭✭✭Anthony45122 wrote: »In skyrim if you pulled a giant too far away from it's original area it would run back and regain health after a few patches. They realized players were kiting them endlessly or sitting at a spot the giant can't reach and fixed it. The giants now run away from you if you're in a spot they can't get to. And that is in a single player game. If you were able to do that in a mmo you would have all the players killing bosses by endlessly running away from them or standing at a spot the boss can't get to them. That is not fun or productive to a game.
No the Giants do not "reset" if you run to far away. They might get back health if they flee and rest though. That is not a problem.
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