Subscription 'ransom' for customers totally unacceptable

Teriosc

No one from all subs MMO or f2p games
does not require pre-autorization in 80$ for check card.
So "other MMOs did the same" wrong position.

KerinKor

Nephys wrote: »

Actually Kerin - I quoted what the thing says, it did not say "credit card details need to be inserted", merely that a subscription method needs to be selected. So. Why do you need card details for game cards as the preferred method?

The terms and conditions presented when you ordered the game said a VALID PAYMENT METHOD, the emphasis is on the word VALID, that's what this charge is, a VALIDATION charge that is voided once authorised by the bank!

x_x

KerinKor wrote: »

Nephys wrote: »

Actually Kerin - I quoted what the thing says, it did not say "credit card details need to be inserted", merely that a subscription method needs to be selected. So. Why do you need card details for game cards as the preferred method?

The terms and conditions presented when you ordered the game said a VALID PAYMENT METHOD, the emphasis is on the word VALID, that's what this charge is, a VALIDATION charge that is voided once authorised by the bank!

Was it not valid enough when I purchased the game? Now they want to hold my money ransom for a subscription which I may or may not want (I don't).

Nephys

@KerinKor‌
A valid payment method is a game card. Are you suggesting that people need to buy one to validate their game? No, because that would be unreasonable and ridiculous, wouldn't it.

Saerydoth

Nephys wrote: »

Not so Sharee, even Blizzard does not force you to enter subscription details. The issue is made worse here by the fact you cannot even tick "game card" as your preferred method without entering a card. It is compounded by the fact we have -already- paid for these 30 days.

This is wrong. Blizzard did in fact do this (although they may not anymore). I started playing WOW in April of 2006, and I had to put in my CC details and set up a subscription plan in order to get my free 30 days.

The only reason WOW doesn't work that way anymore is because they have the "starter edition" unlimited free trial that lets you level to 20 without starting a full account. I imagine ESO will be the same when/if Zenimax implements a free trial (which I'm sure they will do once things settle down).

Nephys

I never had this when I played WoW. It has nothing to do with the starter edition. It may have changed since you first played, because I was a relative late arrival to WoW, but it hasn't been that way for a number of years.

Edit: Sorry, I ought to have confirmed your "although they may not anymore".

dooglas

This thread reads like some amalgamation of Fox News, Toddlers & Tiaras, and a J.G. Wentworth commercial.

I'm upset as well due to an error preventing me from playing while I have time off work, but these forums are at least entertaining while we wait to hear something from the seemingly absent customer service representatives.

In the meantime I think I'll go get some lunch. I plan on paying with a big bag of pennies as pennies are a valid form of currency and the restaurant I go to is required to accept them. LOL, seriously though, game time cards? What is this, 1957?

Nephys

Unfortunately you have missed the point dooglas. Not only for certain countries, a game card is often the best bet, but some people prefer not to share their details with game companies and the like. You might wish to poke fun at this, but hopefully you will exhibit more grace than that.

Litvan

Saerydoth wrote: »

This is wrong. Blizzard did in fact do this (although they may not anymore). I started playing WOW in April of 2006, and I had to put in my CC details and set up a subscription plan in order to get my free 30 days.

The only reason WOW doesn't work that way anymore is because they have the "starter edition" unlimited free trial that lets you level to 20 without starting a full account. I imagine ESO will be the same when/if Zenimax implements a free trial (which I'm sure they will do once things settle down).

I didn't, and I started in sep 2005, bought the game, played until my FREE gametime ran out, then went to the store to buy another gametime card which I THEN added to my account.

Midgardian

Nephys wrote: »

I never had this when I played WoW. It has nothing to do with the starter edition. It may have changed since you first played, because I was a relative late arrival to WoW, but it hasn't been that way for a number of years.

Edit: Sorry, I ought to have confirmed your "although they may not anymore".

So, wouldn't this seriously invalidate your claim? You didn't play WoW at launch or early, so how do you know what happens with a game at launch?

WoW did require a sub plan for me when I got a free month. One of the reasons it doesn't anymore is because it's loosing so many subscriptions that they changed their business model.

dragoaskani

Nephys wrote: »

I am absolutely furious that Zenimax believe it is acceptable to force people to give their card details to enable them to play the 30-days time that comes with the game. Apart from anything else, what about those that only wish to use game cards and suchlike. This is beyond unreasonable.

Been like this for over a decade. Clearly this is your first sub mmo. Hell even wow did this for the first 6 years it existed.

Litvan

dragoaskani wrote: »

Been like this for over a decade. Clearly this is your first sub mmo. Hell even wow did this for the first 6 years it existed.

When???
I've played wow with gamecards ever since sep. 2005, I've never had to have a 2nd gametime card added to my account before the first one ran out in order for me to play, even when I bought my 2nd and 3rd account (yes.. multiboxing) I had 30 days free playing time BEFORE I had to go to the store to buy another gametime card to add to the account(s)

Nephys

@Midgardian‌ @dragoaskani
I didn't but others did, and confirm that card entry in other games was not compulsory to activate included game time.

ArconSeptim

I dont really understand that whole process of choosing the subscription plan than stealing extra money and saying oops you choosed soo by your self..nonono I PAID FOR MY 30 DAYS AND IF I WANT TO CONTINUE AFTER I WILL PAY!

Ashlita

At least for the EU start in 2005 it was possible to play wow with gametime cards.
And no you did not have to add 30 days to your 30 days forehand.
You simply checked gametime subscription and when the gametime ran out your account was blocked.
Happened to me once that i was unable to play cause i forgot to get new gametime card on time.
They did offer an automation with CCs but they did not force it on you quite a difference.

BOSPaladin

It's an authorization, the money is refunded. It's just to verify payment details.

Ashlita

It's an authorization, the money is refunded. It's just to verify payment details.

Only for certain payment methods it is and thats only when their cancel works.
For other payment methods you have to pay another month at least to get your already paid month.

Luewen

Ashlita wrote: »

Seriously guys.

1) Stop claiming other MMOs did the same.
No they did NOT. I know of no game at all which forced any customers directly to pay another 30 days before using up the already paid 30 days.
You claim nobody is forcing you. Well they are. Not everyone does have a CC.
Furthermore yes Blizzard and some other MMOs requored a CC in some cases but that was done after the 30 days where used up and n cases it was done forehand they did only a verification charge of 0.01 $ and not the full charge.

OH yes they did. Pretty much every MMO i have played with monthly subs needed you to enter valid sub before starting to play. And you r not forced to pay anything here either for the first 30 days. You will only pay after your free 30 days are over.

Mopar63

Ashlita wrote: »

Seriously guys.

1) Stop claiming other MMOs did the same.
No they did NOT. I know of no game at all which forced any customers directly to pay another 30 days before using up the already paid 30 days.

So in all conclusion this is not normal for a mmo never has been never will be.
This is just *** customer support holding the money from customers they already paid hostage to receive more money.

I snipped your reply down to the important points. Your post shows either you where not around during the intial MMO releases or have just forgotten. For a while EVERY MMO required a credit card to play the game be entered. Now in fairness Zenimax is the first I know to use more than a $1 verification charge but that is not nearly as big a deal as this is being made out to be.

There is a lot of false info out there on this, lets try to set this straight.

1) NO ONE is paying for their second month upfront. Zenimax is charging the fee and then refunding the fee once the account shows as viable. THIS is the only thing they are doing in this regard that is outside of normal.

2) Subcription MMOs all required a credit card before the game could be played during the early days of MMOs, before F2P was out there. This is a practice not seen often today but it is not outside the norm for a subscription model.

dooglas

Just surprised physical game time cards are still a thing is all. A lot of threads about people ordering them online and they haven't arrived yet or they're backstocked. You'd think by now you could order it from a site and just receive the code right away and not have to wait for it to actually arrive.

Or go to a store, by 1 game time card with cash but it functions like a refillable prepaid card that can have funds deposited directly through paypal or a bank account. Maintains anonymity but at least eliminates this hassle of places being out of time cards or having to physically go get another card. I thought WoW did something similar to this awhile back? Or maybe that was just WoW themed credit card designs, I can't remember.

I don't personally understand the paranoia people have with sharing, more-or-less, public information over the internet, but to each their own. The jab was aimed more at companies still pushing time cards instead of coming up with something better than it was at the people who use the cards.

ArconSeptim

Well thats not true they are going into your intimacy and checking your bank account state wtf they need to know if I want to pay another month if i can0t at the moment I bought the game one month ago and it was said that we will get our 30 days free included in game price?!

mccobleb14_ESO

Nephys wrote: »

Totally - people are quoting this:

"The first 30 days begin at or after the official launch of the game when players select their preferred subscription plan. Subscription fees will only be charged after the first 30 days."

However, as game cards are a valid subscription method, then frankly, requiring the entry of a card is out of order.

Game cards are not VALID as I was planning on picking one up so none of this would be an issue as I am a tipped employee who hardly uses the banks. ESO time cards are not available .

Nephys

@dooglas Ah right. To be honest, I tend to pay by debit card, but I understand that some do not. Of course kids get given them as gifts too sometimes and I think places do exist where you get a digital number.

@Morpar63
We are no longer in the past, and it has not been practice for a long time for a company to demand card details where already paid for gametime exists. The fact that no one is actually paying for additional gametime is largely an irrelevance, this whole issue ought never to have arisen in the first place. A tick box for "gamecard" as "valid subscription method" ought to have been allowed and would have avoided this fiasco.

Elirienne

We knew this was going to be the case when we bought the game. It's not even smallprint in the Ts and Cs or in the Eula. It's 4 lines clearly displayed when you purchase, something around "steady internet connection, valid card on file or valid gamecard on file required" Something along these lines. Please stop complaining. If you want to stop after the free time, you won't be charged. If not, what difference does it make?

Ashlita

@Luewen ✭@Mopar63 ✭
Wow with EU start did not require a CC.
You could check gametime card and play your allotted time.
Lineage 2 at the NA start required a CC "verification" which actually did not charge the CC and the verification was not mandatory and could be bypassed.
UO did but sure if you want to compare yourself with a game which is 17 years old...
way to go ZOS...

Justice_OC

I've been charged twice, even contacted my bank to make sure there were no processing problems on their end. Waiting 2 days now still can't play. It's definitely Zenimax's incompetence.

I can't fathom why they wouldn't just extend the grace period and avoid this PR nightmare. Take it out of my 30 days, I don't care, just let me play what I've PAID FOR while you untangle your idiotic mess!!!

Middle of Monday, still no official post to address the problem. We should all plaster this throughout their social media, and major game review sites/forums. Sad that it has to go to that level to get an appropriate resolution.

Nephys

@‌ Elirienne
"The first 30 days begin at or after the official launch of the game when players select their preferred subscription plan. Subscription fees will only be charged after the first 30 days."

Is what it says. When you go in to enter your full game code, the gamecard is given as an option and then they actually ask you to enter the code of the gamecard, meaning that you would have to buy one if you wanted that using as your preferred subscription plan. How, exactly, is that reasonable?

Many people did not notice the 'small print' in the first place, nor I think assumed that card details, if required, would be demanded prior to the 30 days included game time which they had paid for, being allowed.

Elirienne

Nephys, what difference does it make for you to give your card details now or on the 7th of May? Abso-****ing-lutely no difference. You will not be charged.

I cannot comment on the game card option, never used those.

Nephys

So those who do want to use game cards and not a bank card, are basically stuffed? I think a lot of people, me included, had not expected to be effectively forced to submit details prior to the expiry of the 30 day included gameplay.

The fact that this has happened, be it because it was badly worded by Zenimax, or that people had simply misunderstood, has left many without confidence in the company. There will be those that scream "it is your own fault, you ought to have seen", but that is both unhelpful and largely irrelevant. The damage is done, and how Zenimax deal with it will be interesting.

@Elirienne I lack confidence in a company that has used what I believe is a badly conceived tactic.

Izzban

DDO, LOTRO, AoC, Rift, Vanguard:SoH, to name a few off the top of my head. All I pre-ordered, all had included game time and early access. None required a CC entered after early access and before you could begin your included game time.

I know I would have remembered such an event, I was so shocked to see it in ESO. There would have been the same scramble and website traffic issues that plagued ESO at the end of early access, none of which I remember from former games. I also vividly remember reminding myself to set up a subscription before my 30 days included game time ran out so I didn't have any downtime in the aforementioned games. I also remember forgetting to set up a subscription, and not being able to access the game until I had entered my CC. (which is why I started reminding myself, hehe)

If you think the games I mentioned required a validated CC like ESO is requiring, then how did players use game cards? They would have needed a CC first, then start using game cards. Posters here have already stated that they have never owned a CC and have used game cards exclusively, which precludes the idea that these games have required a CC.

The $14.99 subscription fee was taken from my account when I added my CC number. I am disappointed at this act, there was no call to take a full month fee from me to verify my account was valid. There is no excuse for such inept business practices.

If I were to do something this inept in my business, I would be fired. I expect, however, that slowly the problems will be resolved, official sources will be silent until the backlash is over, then the big executives will give themselves a nice fat bonus for having fixed everything their stupid subordinates botched. The way of the modern world, no? If you made it this far, thanks for reading.