Subscription 'ransom' for customers totally unacceptable

Felarrond

Sadly Zenimax has hurt their reputation because of lack of forethought on this. If they'd simply followed industry standards and pre-authorized $1 no one would have complain.

What makes this shady and feel dirty is the fact that, at least originally, on their transaction pages, they kept reminding you you'd be not be CHARGED until your 30 days ran out, that no charges would appear on your bank account. 0.00 it says. And then you end up with a pre-auth charge for the full amount. Mine is still on my bank account in processing to this date, and I use one of the most commonly used banks in the States. So it wasn't an overestimation or fear mongering tactic when I told them it would take days to clear off peoples accounts.

Another little white lie by ZoS.

sternzyub17_ESO

Couldn't even attach a game-code to my account without setting up a *** recurring payment.

Amazon is accepting returns.

DanteYoda

Sharee wrote: »

It has been like this for pretty much every subscription MMO i ever played, and i started in 2001.

And from what i understand, MMO's did not even start it, booking a hotel room works the same.

You seem to have played some very different p2p mmo's than i did, i've never seen this type of scheme before.

There was no ToS or conditions when i walked into EB games and pre ordered the standard edition, i asked if we get 30 days free they said yes, i paid my deposit and walked out.

I only saw the Conditions on the box when i got it on 4/4/14 when i got home, and even then they seemed confusing as hell.

Nephys

@‌Twistedmind

"The first 30 days begin at or after the official launch of the game when players select their preferred subscription plan. Subscription fees will only be charged after the first 30 days."

I read that, and I repeat, as game cards are a valid preferred subscription why is there not simply a tick box for that? Oh, they require us to buy a card and use the code on it?

philob16_ESO

Filed a complaint, its illegal to ask for a subscription plan (by credit card) as long as you have open game time. Part of E.U. law. As long as I have game time left I am not required to give any bank information. Also any type of subscription needs to be without force (and so there needs to be other options like paying each month without subscription).

bokafix

In my opinion thats a little bit strange.
You bought 30 days with your pre-purchase but have to buy 30 more to get the first one. Like in the T*sco buy 2 and get 3. But summary thats not a big deal.
Another strange thing I found in my account I have 29 days left after the first billing. O.o What 30+30=29? And the next billing day 7th of May. So whats up now? My pre-purchased 30 days are vanished

Sharee

Ashlita wrote: »

@Sharee did not buy at elderscrolls store since it costs 10 € more there.
Yet it did not outline these requirements at all.
It outlines that you have to select a valid payment option which than is charged after the 30 days are used up.
Thats not what they are doing. They charge the valid payment option right away.
They might refund it in some cases they did not as many have told already but the charge is done before the 30 days are used up.
So no this is not outlined in the requirements.
Further more the retailers do not outline these extra requirements at all

What retailers do is not ZOS business. If they mislead you, complain to them. ZOS made the requirements publicly known, to both you and the retailers.

ZOS is not charging the payment right away. They just validate the payment option - the money never leaves your account. It just has to be there.

The only case where they cannot do this is with a gametime card, as they cannot 'refund' you money because they never got them in the first place - the card seller did. And the card seller will not refund you as that is the nature of gametime cards, once it is unpacked it is considered used, and thus worthless. Thus, when using a gametime card option, it is inevitable that the card will be 'used' right away.

If you do not want this, either get a credit card(a borrowed one will do, as it wont be charged anyway), or contact customer support to activate your 30 days for you.

Oblongship

Nephys wrote: »

I am absolutely furious that Zenimax believe it is acceptable to force people to give their card details to enable them to play the 30-days time that comes with the game. Apart from anything else, what about those that only wish to use game cards and suchlike. This is beyond unreasonable.

You are taking this a little to far....

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/67461/bank-account-being-charged#latest

Read their sticky...

Hodggoblin

Ashlita, its not a charge its a hold, yes it shouldn't be a hold for the full amount, oh well, its not hard to have 15 dollars in your back account, if you cant keep 15 dollars in your back account how can you afford to purchase expensive games like this.

BOSPaladin

The only thing I'm REALLY annoyed about is that I purchased the retail edition, so on Friday I set everything up and put in my card details. My boyfriend bought the digital edition, and waited till he physically couldn't log in late sunday to put in the card details.
My account says it has 27 days left, his says 29. That's garbage. EVERYONE'S 30 days should have begun once early access ended, not once you put in the card details. If I had known, I'd have waited and gotten 2 extra days. Come on.

Nephys

Sharee people understand how gamecards work, they do not need you to explain that. However, they are a valid 'preferred subscription method' and Zenimax's choice not to allow people to proceed without a code from one is unacceptable. It is obvious why and the ability to tick a 'gamecard' option would have alleviated these issues. Zenimax appeared to have taken a leaf out of the Ukash virus designer tactics. It is most unprofessional.

safer88

You are missing the point, right now im in front of my pc after paying 50 euros to play a game, and i cannot do it until i go out and charge a prepaid card for 13 more euros. So the point is im not getting the service i paid for ( 30 days time)

Ashlita

@sharee You are wrong there again.
For the million time a "pending charge" which is cancelled is a charge.
It goes into the account it drops your account balance etc etc.
If they cancel or refund it than it is cleared out of the account.
What they are doing is charging your payment option and than cancelling it/refunding it thats a difference to "no charging only verifying".
Furthermore there are a lot of complaints out there where their system failed to do the cancellation and refunding part of the process.

For the mere verification they could "charge" your account with 0.01 $ or even do it the other way around and fund the account 0.01 $ both options can only happen when the information provided is valid and the whole charging/cancel process would not be a big of an issue.

For the gametime card part what you seem to forget is that ZOS has the account anyway. There is no need to fill in the details NOW. if your 30 days are up they close your account and be done with it. You wanna pay than enter a code. So what they are doing is forcing you to buy now at the start of your already paid service for another paid service.

Last but not least you seem to forget this game is sold worldwide and only cause its "normal" to have a CC / DC or even a bunch of them in the US this is not true for the rest of the world or not so much.
Personally i have a CC but its a company issued one which i sure as hell will not use on a game which i paid already. A private CC i do not have nor do i need it and if i would have one i would not connect it with this online store where 50% of my needed information is in plain sight of everyone in the game (loginname).

Beside the point but still a concern:
The TOS might be valid for an US customer. In most of EU countries a forced subscription like this one, as long as game time is present, is not valid since the customer protection laws forbid it.
In fact i am not even inclined to give them anything in regards to billing information as long as i do have gametime left on my account and/or do not want to buy additional time.

I wrote the support 12 hours ago. Wrote again 8 hours ago and 4 hours ago.
Guess how many answers i have up to now?
Right... Zero...

LastLaugh

djodars wrote: »

There is already a thousand threads about this same subject. Can we please stop cluttering the forums with this and all post in the same thread?

Zenimax knows about this and are most likely working on a solution as we speak.

If you had bothered reading the TOS or the requirements for the game which specify you NEED a credit card or game time card to setup a subscription, you all wouldn't have this "problem" right now.

Take this as a lesson for future purchases.

Given the level of incompetence they have demonstrated so far I am not willing to trust that the matter is in good hands. If they are indeed working on a solution they should make a public announcement updating us on that.

In the meantime, I consider the customer support forum a totally appropriate venue for my complaints about their customer service. If they want us to stop "cluttering" the forum (read: using it for the purposes it was designed for), they should improve their service. The number of posts are directly proportional to the number of people who are affected by their bad business decisions.

If you don't want to read complaints about their customer service, you are in the wrong place.

Nephys

@BOSPaladin Incredible, and yes I agree with you. The 30 days ought to commence after expiry, not bite you in the backside because you entered early.

@Safer88 Exactly, the issue is not about cards being pre-charged, it is simply that you are required to enter the thing to use the already paid for 30 days, or, worse, pay for a gamecard. I understand that customer support are issuing codes to people, but it ought never to have happened in the first place. I too am awaiting a response from them as I am unwilling to submit card details.

rayvn03b14_ESO

Sharee wrote: »

Nephys wrote: »

It is compounded by the fact we have -already- paid for these 30 days.

ZOS did not hide anything from you. In fact i got the message in the confirmation email after i bought the game:

By making your purchase today, which includes early access plus an initial 30 days of game play, you have acknowledged that this game requires you to enter into a paid subscription plan. A valid and accepted payment method is required to play.

If you did not agree to those terms you should not have bought it.

It does indeed say that. However, they should have stated--if only to prevent possible confusion and upset like is happening now--that the payment method would be required in order to be able to have the free trial. I've worked in customer service long enough to know that one should always write something based on how the average person would take it to mean...then make it even more obvious. Saves trouble in the long run.

ETA: Their mistake is in looking at what every MMO and online service do...except for what their biggest competitor does. World of Warcraft gives 30 days free trial to their new players... and they don't require upfront payment info to do it. But hey, what do I know? I'm just some wench without a degree in marketing or business :P

Kalin

I don't understand the need of some people to defend Zenimax and make arguments as if it's their own company...
This is a discussion thread on official forum for people who want to complain.
If you have no complaint and no problem, STFU and GTFO!

There are others who have legitimate issues with their country banking system and/or CC and/or finances.
This is an unprecedented double-charging issue and players are being extorted to pay another month in order to use the one they already paid for.
Simple as that. And Zenimax needs to know these reactions.

x_x

Every time I call in to (855) 296-3170, they disconnect the line after about 2+ hours. I checked with my provider and they confirmed that it was disconnected from the other end and not a problem with my service.

The phone number on Zenimax's website [ (410) 568-3200 ] appears to be the actual phone number of their MD offices. If nobody answers, you are transferred to an automated directory where you can dial a person in the office directly if you know their extension. The girl answering the phone seems to be getting tired of it ringing. Maybe we should just dial random extensions until we find someone who can help?

edit: i accidentally a letter

Nephys

A wench with sense rayvn.

I have received a standard response from the support team blathering on about the requirement to provide card details. Seems like they do not like issuing bypass codes. So, for those that said 'contact customer support' I did. And still I am unable to use the service I already paid for.

Sharee

Ashlita wrote: »

@sharee You are wrong there again.
For the million time a "pending charge" which is cancelled is a charge.
It goes into the account it drops your account balance etc etc.

There was absolutely zero movement on my bank account when i selected a 180 day subscription plan. And i get an SMS message whenever there is an incoming or outgoing payment, courtesy of my bank. Nothing.

So there.

Nephys

That was your experience Sharee and "so there" is somewhat juvenile. Others clearly have a different experience and I cannot understand why you appear to be unable to accept that Zenimax are less than perfect and that only your version of events is the accurate one.

kazarkas

KerinKor wrote: »

Nephys wrote: »

I am absolutely furious that Zenimax believe it is acceptable to force people to give their card details to enable them to play the 30-days time that comes with the game..

Actually YOU accepted it when you placed your order, the terms and conditions were clearly laid out if you'd bother to read them.

It's not as pervasive as @Sharee is trying to make out as @Nephys says, it's actually not at all common among the leading MMOs in my experience and that of others, however this was CLEARLY STATED as a requirement to play so no one can claim they didn't know.

We paid for the 30 days already when we purchased the game so we are just demanding something that was promised to us. I like to pay with things in cash and pre-paid cards are not available in the USA yet so why even include it as an opinion at this juncture?

One of the worst launches I have seen.

Sharee

Nephys wrote: »

That was your experience Sharee and "so there" is somewhat juvenile. Others clearly have a different experience...

They say it drops your account balance.
I say it does not.

They did not enter a valid subscription.
I did.

'So there' seems about right under these circumstances.

kazarkas

Looks like I need to go buy a $15 visa and pay a $6 charge so I don't have to put this crap on my credit/debit card.

Thanks.

Geneticspore

Rift, Aion, SWtoR, WoW, EQII, FF11, FFXIV, (and some hero game from Marvel which I don't remember). These are some of the games under my belt. And NEVER have they held a game ransom for a sub. They simply cut your "free" play time after the 30 days has been up. I have never been told "You MUST, enter your CC/Debit card info, we take the FULL amount to get your first month free.". This is extremely distasteful on their part. While I do understand that this could be part to curb the gold spammers (and I think it did work). So honestly those of you saying this is standard procedure please...you're more wrong and a silk painting of an elephant and dolphin getting it on.

x_x

kazarkas wrote: »

Looks like I need to go buy a $15 visa and pay a $6 charge so I don't have to put this crap on my credit/debit card.

Thanks.

That is probably a good idea anyway, because I don't think I trust them with my credit card number tbh.

By the way, you can buy those cards at the dollar store and just pay the five dollar activation.

Nephys

@Sharee‌
You say it did not for you, and they said it did for them. There is no reason why both statements cannot both be true, especially where both instances are repeated by other individuals.

As an update with customer support, I have received a further mail escalating my ticket, so hopefully it will be resolved. Hopefully.

Iniesta

if you cancel your sub after 29 days , they cant charge you ...is that correct ?

BOSPaladin

Sharee wrote: »

Nephys wrote: »

That was your experience Sharee and "so there" is somewhat juvenile. Others clearly have a different experience...

They say it drops your account balance.
I say it does not.

They did not enter a valid subscription.
I did.

'So there' seems about right under these circumstances.

Perhaps your bank account is different, but when I have a pending charge, it takes the money out of my "Available Balance" and will decline a charge if I try to use more than what I have in my "Available Balance". This is a charge, and then they will refund the charge. That's not a good way to verify details.

Ashlita

@sharee i said and i can prove it that they failed to cancel on several occasions and people have been charged with the subscription as of today already.
Thats a fact that it did not happen for you is ok but this doent change that it did not work out this way for everyone.
Furthermore your SMS warning system is actually wrong. a Pending charge will never be sent to your SMS system. yet it does drop your balance for the time as long as it is pending.
Last but not least its common sense if they do not hold the funds someway or another you would not need to have the full amount in your balance.

@Hodd you miss the point.
I am not even allowed to pay with my bank acount where i live.
I have 3 options:
CC / which i do not have
PayPal / which is not allowed to connect with my bank account cause of customer protection laws.
Gametime Card / which is not in store anywhere in Asutria.

It is not a question to have the funding for me but rather have a valid option i can use today. Even when i transfer funds into my PayPal account it takes several days to arrive and to be able to subscribe with this. If they would charge 0.01 as example i could verify today.
If they would actually deliver those Gametime Cards to retailers in the country i could buy right now even tho i am pissed off that i am forced to do that.

So please do not assume it works like a charm cause it works for you where you live. Especially in Europe its a big mess and most of my friends who joined ESO report similar issues and troubles.