Update 50 PTS – Week 5 Summary

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Hi everyone! Welcome to our Update 50 PTS summary for week 5. This will be our final weekly summary for the Update 50 PTS cycle. In case you missed our update here, we are back to having five weeks of PTS this cycle and for the foreseeable future. We are still taking bug reports and feedback on Update 50 and Season Zero and Season One content that is currently on the PTS between now and when the content launches. This includes the Werewolf refresh, Class Mastery, and Challenge Difficulty, all of which will evolve over time based on your feedback as evergreen content typically does.

As with our previous PTS Weekly Summaries, this post compiles a high-level summary of the Update 50 PTS – Week 5 top feedback points and issues. The purpose of these weekly PTS summaries is to give you visibility into the main pieces of feedback and most prominent bugs we are tracking. For this final Update 50 PTS summary, we will also include the top bugs and feedback that we are tracking for the Update 50 launch build.

You may read our summaries here for Week 1, Week 2, Week 3, and Week 4.

Thank you for your continued PTS bug reports and feedback, and as always, we welcome your thoughts on these PTS summaries.

Challenge Difficulty

• Changes to Master and Seasoned Damage Output [Feedback]: We would like to thank everyone for trying out Challenge Difficulty on the PTS. This is the first iteration of Challenge Difficulty, and we do intent to update it as resources allow in the future based on your feedback. The rest is a carry-over from previous PTS weekly summaries. With PTS Week 5, we made some changes to the damage output for Master and Seasoned Challenge Difficulty levels. We are making these changes to address the feedback that the damage output between Adventurer, Seasoned, and Master did not feel different enough. With the changes, this is what the Challenge Difficulty levels look like on the PTS now, and how they will when Challenge Difficulty launches with Update 50 in June:
  • Adventurer: No changes
  • Seasoned: -50% (was -20%) Damage Done, +100% Damage Taken, +20% XP, +50% Gold
  • Master: -65% (was -50%) Damage Done, +300% Damage Taken, +75% XP, +100% Gold
  • Vestige: -80% Damage Done, +600% Damage Taken, +100% XP, +200% Gold
• UI [Bug]: This is a carry-over from previous PTS weekly summaries. UI elements for Challenge Difficulty do not update in real time on Keyboard UI and Console UI. This will be fixed in time for Update 50 launch in June.

Class Mastery

• General [Feedback]: This is a carry-over from last week's PTS summary. We have seen a variety of questions and concerns about some Class Mastery passives – particularly for Necromancers, Nightblades, Sorcerers, and Templars, feeling underwhelming compared to others, or generally not feeling like they match certain playstyles or function as well as you’d like for certain types of content. We have compiled some of the main topics we’ve seen from you and have answered them in this longer post here. As we close out the Update 50 PTS, we want to thank everyone for your feedback and bug reports for Class Mastery. We will continue to your monitor feedback and bug reports when Class Mastery launches with Update 50 in June.

Thieves Guild & Sheogorath Content

• Daggerfall Thieves Den [Bug]: This is a carryover from last week’s PTS Summary. We are investigating reports of players getting flagged for stealing after taking items from inside the Daggerfall Thieves Den.
• Quests – General: This is a carryover from previous PTS Summaries. We are working on fixes for minor continuity and polish issues and some quest blockers across various quests in the Thieves Guild and Sheogorath content. Some of these fixes went out with PTS Week 5, and others will go in for Update 50 launch in June.

Vengeance (Cyrodiil)

• General [Feedback]: We want to thank everyone who hopped into the Vengeance campaign during the Update 50 PTS cycle. When Vengeance hits the live servers as a permanent campaign option alongside Gray Host, we will be closely monitoring feedback and performance and will adjust as needed. That includes opening additional campaigns if the population calls for it, making design changes if needed, etc. Vengeance is intended to be an evolving experience, and we will adjust as we go, based on your feedback. We do have some additional experimental changes planned for Vengeance later this year, such as turning on item sets to allow for the abilities to function in Vengeance but not the stats. This is all in the name of continuing to fine-tune a fun and rewarding Cyrodiil experience while retaining good server performance and higher population campaign numbers. More on this soon!

Werewolf Refresh

• General [Bugs]: This is a carryover from last week’s PTS Summary, with an update. We are investigating a number of miscellaneous visual-related issues with the new Werewolf model. Some of these issues will be fixed with Update 50 in June, and others will come later. We will continue to keep an eye out for any additional bug reports and thank everyone for what’s been reported thus far! (Related post.)
• General [Feedback]: This is a carryover from last week’s PTS Summary. Over the past few weeks and especially following last week’s changes to the Werewolf kit, we have seen both your PTS feedback and follow-up questions. These have ranged from concerns about the Werewolf’s general power in PvE and how the Werewolf kit is interacting with some Class Mastery passives, to questions about overall Werewolf power, damage output, tanking, and healing. We have compiled some of the main topics we’ve seen from you and have answered them in this longer post here. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed feedback about the Werewolf refresh during this PTS cycle. We will continue to monitor your feedback when the Werewolf refresh goes live with Update 50 in June!

Miscellaneous

• Shattered Paths Signet [Feedback]: While not an Update 50 PTS-specific topic, we have seen the Shattered Paths Signet come up in several discussions related to Update 50 PTS topics and wanted to take a moment to address it. We do see your feedback and concerns about the overall power of this item. We are looking at this item and discussing its overall strength, especially (but not limited to) in PvP gameplay when paired with certain builds.

Dracane

Thank you for this Update 50 PTS. Overall it has been a pleasure. And seeing now that you hear the concerns regarding the Shattered Path Signet is a good way to close this off.

React

Good to hear shattered path is being looked at for PVP. Status effects in general were already becoming very oppressive in patches leading up to the release of this ring, but have gone way over the top since it's release. Builds that spam status from ranged, "pulse gankers", serpent's disdain setups with every status effect extended to 18s, etc. It really is no different from free damage "proc sets" doing damage for you, and should be reigned in ASAP. If possible, it would be great to see some adjustment to this sooner rather than later - it certainly would be a very nice precedent to set if we could see important balance changes made outside of the typical 3-4 month "major patch" window they usually come in.

It would also be great if the destruction staff skill "elemental susceptibility" could be looked at in tandem with this. This skill is far too strong for being a free to cast ability from an optimal backbar weapon choice. @MashmalloMan wrote a great suggestion for how this skill could be adjusted to be better balanced for PVP, which I'll share here;

MashmalloMan wrote: »

• Add a cost, decreases per rank.
• Reduce duration from 30s to 20s, but gain increased status effect chance while active.
• Swap 3x effects for 1x effect based on staff type, but every 5s, including on cast.
• Like Blockade, name changes based on staff type.

Here is what my debuff bar often looks like when I go PVP in cyrodiil these days.

Firstmep

React wrote: »

Good to hear shattered path is being looked at for PVP. Status effects in general were already becoming very oppressive in patches leading up to the release of this ring, but have gone way over the top since it's release. Builds that spam status from ranged, "pulse gankers", serpent's disdain setups with every status effect extended to 18s, etc. It really is no different from free damage "proc sets" doing damage for you, and should be reigned in ASAP. If possible, it would be great to see some adjustment to this sooner rather than later - it certainly would be a very nice precedent to set if we could see important balance changes made outside of the typical 3-4 month "major patch" window they usually come in.

It would also be great if the destruction staff skill "elemental susceptibility" could be looked at in tandem with this. This skill is far too strong for being a free to cast ability from an optimal backbar weapon choice. @MashmalloMan wrote a great suggestion for how this skill could be adjusted to be better balanced for PVP, which I'll share here;

MashmalloMan wrote: »

• Add a cost, decreases per rank.
• Reduce duration from 30s to 20s, but gain increased status effect chance while active.
• Swap 3x effects for 1x effect based on staff type, but every 5s, including on cast.
• Like Blockade, name changes based on staff type.

Here is what my debuff bar often looks like when I go PVP in cyrodiil these days.

Tbh I'd like it if they also addressed other sources of major breach, and the lack thereof for many classes and weapons.

The offensive melee weapons not having this debuff for example is still puzzling to me.
Ele sus is very strong but the choices are also very limited atm.

‐‐----

While appreciate these posts, I'd like it even more if there were tangible changes following them up, especially in cases where simple number adjustments could make a difference like for nb or templar, and ofc Coe for sorc.

YandereGirlfriend

Very pleased to see that Signet and pulseganking in general are on the radar.

Less pleased that Rakkhat continues to be the invisible Mythic, whose power level vs. competing alternatives (such as Oakensoul and Anthelmir) was massively nerfed and never compensated. The designated Heavy Attack Mythic fails to be the clear best-in-slot at fulfilling its own intended purpose in the game. Hopefully, we will see something done to correct the situation in U51.

Radiate77

Turning on proc sets in Vengeance will be huge for helping to re-add that level of customization we know and love in PvP. My excitement went from zero-to-interested with that announcement.

Please find a way to standardize the values for Vengeance, I know there are some proc sets that give too much value for their conditions and I would hate to be in a position where there are two sets being ran out of thousands.

That said, there are still two MAJOR problems that I have with Vengeance…

1. Subclassing is still missing.
2. Certain Skills do not meet their identity.

While #1 might not be a problem for some people, the identity of multiple characters I have now depend on their ability to synergize skill lines. Understand how unappealing Vengeance is to someone who plays this MMORPG as an MMORPG. Until I can bring my characters into Vengeance as at least an iteration of themselves, they will not be going in.

Now #2 is a massive issue written off in the name of performance. Skills need to retain their baseline functions… what I mean by this, is that if you use Summon Scamp, it should summon a scamp to fight with you, not to just be another DoT or Burst skill. Removing the multi-function buff/debuff minigame, along with all of the stat crunching and standardization of Vengeance… should be enough to ensure good performance. Sacrificing skill identity at the altar of performance sets a horrible precedent, and is also, yet another reason I haven’t been participating in Vengeance.

Both issues fall into the same underlying problem… identity. I am of the opinion that ESO’s greatest strength lies in its amazing customization options.

Vengeance would be best served; respecting those choices we have made when creating the perfect identity for our characters.

Demonwolff

I unfortunately find myself on the opposite side of this as I believe adding proc sets is the wrong direction.

I would rather see stats and recovery enabled and morphs for abilities allowing for skill to still be the dominate factor while introducing counter play and Diversity in builds.

Radiate77

Demonwolff wrote: »

I unfortunately find myself on the opposite side of this as I believe adding proc sets is the wrong direction.

I would rather see stats and recovery enabled and morphs for abilities allowing for skill to still be the dominate factor while introducing counter play and Diversity in builds.

Stats & recovery were already added through the addition of their new Perk System.

You pick and choose what stats are important, and it’s a give/take system.

danko355

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We have seen a variety of questions and concerns about some Class Mastery passives – particularly for Necromancers, Nightblades, Sorcerers, and Templars, feeling underwhelming compared to others, or generally not feeling like they match certain playstyles or function as well as you’d like for certain types of content. We have compiled some of the main topics we’ve seen from you and have answered them in this longer post here.

Did I get it right that there’s supposed to be a longer post regarding the Class Mastery balance?

Wuuffyy

Thanks for the updates!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom the combat team had previously affected the Signet mythic to work with less efficiency while using the ultimate/pet combo that is Feral Guardian.

I assume this was done as you were still receiving ultimate level power while also benefiting from this mythic that trades your ultimate for its own ‘power’.

~~~

Can you advise if the team is already aware that all top (highest of the high by a considerable margin) ‘parses’ that have been provided for werewolf in both PvE and PvP are using this mythic?

It’s behaving the same way as Feral Guardian does in that it is providing its ‘ult trade off’ benefit while the werewolf is still receiving ‘ultimate’ level power via Fury, etc.

It has caused any other damage options (ESPECIALLY any other damage related mythics/monster sets) to be woefully underperforming comparatively parse wise and overall contextually.

Savagejack

Sorcerer's little scamp dot is good in Vengeance but it tends to miss a lot in mobile fights. It'd be cool if that delay were removed or the radius increased at least.
Also Crystal Shard's cast time makes it near unusable. It could be instant with a cooldown similar to Nightblade bow or maybe make it a short buff that enhances light attack dmg? Something, anything. Great job so far!

SneaK

danko355 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We have seen a variety of questions and concerns about some Class Mastery passives – particularly for Necromancers, Nightblades, Sorcerers, and Templars, feeling underwhelming compared to others, or generally not feeling like they match certain playstyles or function as well as you’d like for certain types of content. We have compiled some of the main topics we’ve seen from you and have answered them in this longer post here.

Did I get it right that there’s supposed to be a longer post regarding the Class Mastery balance?

That’s how I read it but don’t see anything.

Wuuffyy

danko355 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We have seen a variety of questions and concerns about some Class Mastery passives – particularly for Necromancers, Nightblades, Sorcerers, and Templars, feeling underwhelming compared to others, or generally not feeling like they match certain playstyles or function as well as you’d like for certain types of content. We have compiled some of the main topics we’ve seen from you and have answered them in this longer post here.

Did I get it right that there’s supposed to be a longer post regarding the Class Mastery balance?

SneaK wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We have seen a variety of questions and concerns about some Class Mastery passives – particularly for Necromancers, Nightblades, Sorcerers, and Templars, feeling underwhelming compared to others, or generally not feeling like they match certain playstyles or function as well as you’d like for certain types of content. We have compiled some of the main topics we’ve seen from you and have answered them in this longer post here.

Did I get it right that there’s supposed to be a longer post regarding the Class Mastery balance?

That’s how I read it but don’t see anything.

I think @ZOS_JessicaFolsom was referring to the post by @ZOS_GinaBruno here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/692644/addressing-u50-pts-combat-ability-concerns/p1 as I noticed the same context (“here”) was attached with the werewolf comment in OP.

I believe that the “here”s above may just be missing the hyperlink possibly.

SneaK

Wuuffyy wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We have seen a variety of questions and concerns about some Class Mastery passives – particularly for Necromancers, Nightblades, Sorcerers, and Templars, feeling underwhelming compared to others, or generally not feeling like they match certain playstyles or function as well as you’d like for certain types of content. We have compiled some of the main topics we’ve seen from you and have answered them in this longer post here.

Did I get it right that there’s supposed to be a longer post regarding the Class Mastery balance?

SneaK wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We have seen a variety of questions and concerns about some Class Mastery passives – particularly for Necromancers, Nightblades, Sorcerers, and Templars, feeling underwhelming compared to others, or generally not feeling like they match certain playstyles or function as well as you’d like for certain types of content. We have compiled some of the main topics we’ve seen from you and have answered them in this longer post here.

Did I get it right that there’s supposed to be a longer post regarding the Class Mastery balance?

That’s how I read it but don’t see anything.

I think @ZOS_JessicaFolsom was referring to the post by @ZOS_GinaBruno here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/692644/addressing-u50-pts-combat-ability-concerns/p1 as I noticed the same context (“here”) was attached with the werewolf comment in OP.

I believe that the “here”s above may just be missing the hyperlink possibly.

= it’s week 5 and we haven’t taken feedback on NB/Temp/Necro masteries serious since week 0, have fun with your WWs in U50!

Wuuffyy

SneaK wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We have seen a variety of questions and concerns about some Class Mastery passives – particularly for Necromancers, Nightblades, Sorcerers, and Templars, feeling underwhelming compared to others, or generally not feeling like they match certain playstyles or function as well as you’d like for certain types of content. We have compiled some of the main topics we’ve seen from you and have answered them in this longer post here.

Did I get it right that there’s supposed to be a longer post regarding the Class Mastery balance?

SneaK wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We have seen a variety of questions and concerns about some Class Mastery passives – particularly for Necromancers, Nightblades, Sorcerers, and Templars, feeling underwhelming compared to others, or generally not feeling like they match certain playstyles or function as well as you’d like for certain types of content. We have compiled some of the main topics we’ve seen from you and have answered them in this longer post here.

Did I get it right that there’s supposed to be a longer post regarding the Class Mastery balance?

That’s how I read it but don’t see anything.

I think @ZOS_JessicaFolsom was referring to the post by @ZOS_GinaBruno here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/692644/addressing-u50-pts-combat-ability-concerns/p1 as I noticed the same context (“here”) was attached with the werewolf comment in OP.

I believe that the “here”s above may just be missing the hyperlink possibly.

= it’s week 5 and we haven’t taken feedback on NB/Temp/Necro masteries serious since week 0, have fun with your WWs in U50!

Hey don’t ’shoot the messenger’ 😂

But yes, I feel like I understand your frustration 😅

Wuuffyy

Regarding Vengeance,

Is there any way we could see werewolf and vampire as options in Vengeance?

I myself don’t personally care for the highly-limited build crafting stipulation that Vengeance entails however would be more enticed if these were additional options in that medium of content.

Erickson9610

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Regarding Vengeance,

Is there any way we could see werewolf and vampire as options in Vengeance?

I myself don’t personally care for the highly-limited build crafting stipulation that Vengeance entails however would be more enticed if these were additional options in that medium of content.

Werewolf should be added to Vengeance soon. Also, we should get a Werewolf Companion soon, too.

The Companion version of Werewolf skills can be made alongside the Vengeance version of Werewolf skills, now that the base skill line was refreshed.

We should also get a Werewolf Scribing Grimoire as our 6th Werewolf skill, not to be used by Companions or Vengeance.

BardokRedSnow

Absolutely add proc abilities to vengeance, probably overtime rather than all at once. Then it might actually be fun since build diversity is the main reason I hate it.

Boy are the anti Greyhost crowds not gonna like that but it is the right move.

Demonwolff

Radiate77 wrote: »

Stats & recovery were already added through the addition of their new Perk System.

You pick and choose what stats are important, and it’s a give/take system.

I wont get started on that system lol.

However My main point here is proc sets are not what's needed in PVP. In fact I would argue they damage the system.
In this case adding variables into an environment that already has limited to no counterplay. This combined with the Shields and heal absorb in the Vanguard Battle Medic and Soldier line will cause players to be unwilling to partake in PVP. That will eventually cause Cyrodiil (Vengeance) to be devoid of people.

CatalinaWineMixer2

After what has happened and what is still happening with the fallout from Subclass, I have little faith in the future. Already, people are trying to turn Vengeance into GH. There is no point to Vengeance at all if its just going to be cherry picked skill lines and people running the same sets (that's exactly what's happening in GH). That's what drove everyone off from there in the first place. This happened with PvE too, people aren't their characters anymore. There is no way that any of these Class Mastery Passives will be able to compete against a no rules cherry picking system. Thats half of the problem. Start throwing mythics into this equation and the whole problem happens all over again. Subclassing needs to be removed or massively reigned in. Why are we even adding more mythics at all with combat so out of control? Even after the refreshes, theyre always going to revert to a calculator and whatever Skill lines give the highest numbers to the mythic. Because there are absolutely no rules, standards, limitations or drawbacks of any kind for this out of control system.

VinnyGambini

React wrote: »

Good to hear shattered path is being looked at for PVP. Status effects in general were already becoming very oppressive in patches leading up to the release of this ring, but have gone way over the top since it's release. Builds that spam status from ranged, "pulse gankers", serpent's disdain setups with every status effect extended to 18s, etc. It really is no different from free damage "proc sets" doing damage for you, and should be reigned in ASAP. If possible, it would be great to see some adjustment to this sooner rather than later - it certainly would be a very nice precedent to set if we could see important balance changes made outside of the typical 3-4 month "major patch" window they usually come in.

It would also be great if the destruction staff skill "elemental susceptibility" could be looked at in tandem with this. This skill is far too strong for being a free to cast ability from an optimal backbar weapon choice. @MashmalloMan wrote a great suggestion for how this skill could be adjusted to be better balanced for PVP, which I'll share here;

MashmalloMan wrote: »

• Add a cost, decreases per rank.
• Reduce duration from 30s to 20s, but gain increased status effect chance while active.
• Swap 3x effects for 1x effect based on staff type, but every 5s, including on cast.
• Like Blockade, name changes based on staff type.

Here is what my debuff bar often looks like when I go PVP in cyrodiil these days.

Thank god I have extended ritual to purge this /sarcasm/

xylena

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Absolutely add proc abilities to vengeance

Boy are the anti Greyhost crowds not gonna like that but it is the right move.

Assuming they're rebalancing and reworking certain procs, yes this would be a great way to add functionality to Vengeance builds without the unmanageable powercreep from stat inflation. Proc sets effectively become slottable passive skills.

Re: adding a cost to Ele Sus: thanks for buffing Sorc with the extra Conservation procs!

spartaxoxo

Proc sets in Vengeance would be a huge mistake because they are one of the reasons the ball groups can be so oppressive, alongside things like heal stacking.

Vengeance is a second chance to offer an alternative PvP experience and it would be a real shame to see it become Gray Host but worse.

I hope instead that you keep iterating on the builds and find a way to add perks into the game. These could be things you draw from the proc sets but with greater control over which procs makes into the game mode. So stuff like AOE pulls wouldn't need to be in the game but things stealth bombers still could be.

The biggest problems with Vengeance is that it is a pure numbers game and there's a lack of build variety. So the reintroducing build variety is very important or it will be a dead game mode. But if it just goes back to being Gray Host but worse than why would I ever want to play it and not Gray Host?

Please continue on the foundation you already laid rather designing around a player group that doesn't actually want it to succeed. One of the biggest strengths of vengeance is being able to make a build at the base without needing to know about or farm a bunch of gear. I hope you that gets expanded on instead.

Savagejack

Everything I despise in pvp -
1. Damage procs. All dmg should come from abilities. Incidental dps should not exist. It should be deliberate.
2. Pull sets. Aoe is already punishing and encompassing enough. It doesn't need automation.
3. Bombers. The antithesis of pvp. They hide from everyone to do a pve rotation, and then run away from any real fight.
4. Ball Groups. They are a combination of all three things except they're a coordinated mass of automation and cheese that crutches on broken cross healing and pull mechanics with Rush of Lagony.

Please keep these things out of Vengeance.

coop500

Why on earth would the devs introduce proc sets to Vengeance? Isn't that like, the one good thing about the mode is NOT having that crud?

danko355

Introducing proc sets kills the only good thing the Vengeance has, equal terms. Having ball groups, small scale with group sets; and bombers in the Vengeance will kill it for average/PVE players.

Aces-High-82

Adding proc sets to Vengeance kills any interest for that campaign for me.
Focus should be to balance the classes there in the first place - NB and DK been miles ahead during the last available test.
Afterwards skill morphs could be introduced imo.