Is it time to get rid of roles on Dungeon Finder? (At least for normal mode)

moderatelyfatman

With fake tanks and healers being the norm and content being so easy, why not just queue up 4 people and let them go.

DestroyerPewnack

No

Normal Naj Caldeesh would still be a little difficult to do without a tank, and practically impossible for a group of 4 new DD players.
I don't mind fake tanks, but if I end up in a dungeon where a tank would be nice to have, I need to know who the fake tank is so that I can assign blame and vote-kick.
If the random normal dungeon queue excluded DLC dungeons, then I would support this idea.

Emeratis

No

Some dungeons need supports even on norm. Also it would be awful to get an "oops all tanks" or "oops all healers" run in a norm. I may have a dps and healer spec saved in the armory but I doubt most players do, especially on alts (heck I don't even have it on my alts right now).

AlienatedGoat

No

Don't forget that new players need roles to learn how group composition works in the game. Just throwing 4 newbies together in a normal run without any composition is a terrible idea.

frogthroat

No

In my guild when people are asking others to join RND, we don't care about builds and roles. Just set them so we can queue. That is when you are playing with others who agree to this.

But if you truly queue with randoms, you don't know if you are getting a new player who would need some getting used to the actual roles and going as a fake tank and speedrunning the dungeon only makes the new player not want to continue playing. If you queue with random people, at least do the bare minimum for your role. If you tank, slot a taunt and at least major breach, but otherwise have your dual wield and greatsword.

Howver, I would have a solution to this. So that those who need the composition get it, and those who don't care may get to 4dd groups. I have detailed the idea here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/686312/possible-solution-to-fake-roles-in-the-dungeon-finder/

L_Nici

No

So you do not want the Dungeon Finder to go, you want the roles to go. Which theoretically I would support for almost all of them, as I am a PvP main and fill all roles anyway. There is just a few exceptions, where I think at least a tank is usefull, Healer not so much, if everyone has Vigor on their bar for example.

LunaFlora

No

No.

sure i can solo most Base Game dungeons, but i do not falsely believe every player is capable of that.
And DLC normal dungeons are definitely not as easy as base game.

What we need more is separate queues for random Base Game dungeons and DLC dungeons.

Blood_again

Maybe

I would make it optional in the finder UI. Like this probably.
Players who want to learn the ropes should use the classic roles, I guess.
While fast runners might choose their own way for comfort.

Ruj

No

All base game dungeons are better run with 4 DPS as long as they have at least some gear sets.
Some DLC normal dungeons need a tank or healer, especially when players are new and don't even have a gear set.


We would need to have 3 random daily dungeon rewards:
base game random normal
DLC random normal
random vet

^ Only if this is done would I consider voting YES.

templar_heal

Maybe

Yes and no, so I voted maybe
4 experienced dds or tank and 3 dds are ok in normal no dlc. As healer I go to random normal with hybrid build half dd-half heal. But in dlc normal I switch to full healer on bosses. Tank is even more important here.

templar_heal

Maybe

Also agree that we have to take new players into consideration.

Taarente

definitely not.

ghastley

No

Think of it more as "what role do I want to practise" than "what can I do" for normal.

OsUfi

No

Absolutely not. I have never, not once, ever had a faster PUG experience with a fake tank or fake healer.

Every damn time it's some low DPS, high ego, little idiot screaming "but it's quicker!" Usually either they're dead or the poor level 41 DPS just trying to get their skill point or daily done.

I am however 100% behind another queue for those that want 4 dps/whatever parties. Keep them out of the regular queue. It'd make dungeons a much nicer place for everyone if that side of the toxic PvE community was left to their own devices.

Athory

No

No. Of course not!

What’s the core of an “MMO” that so many players talk about in ESO? In dungeons, the game is supposed to need 1 tank, 1 healer, and 2 DPS, right? Isn’t that the core of ESO?
In trials, it should be 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 8 DPS. Isn’t that the core of ESO in trials?

Why should we be asking to change the game’s core even more? ZOS has already damaged the essence of its own game with all these high DPS numbers. We don’t even need tanks or healers in most veteran dungeons, and almost all veteran trials only require 1 tank, 1 healer, and 10 DPS.

All this nonsense about high numbers is changing the core of ESO, and you want to change it even more? Why?

ZOS should bring DPS down and make roles essential to the game again instead of excluding or killing them.
How does that make any sense otherwise? Trade the core, the essence of ESO, for numbers? NO.

Oh boy...

EDIT:
Unless...

... our new class is going to be like Rambo, with an M60 machine gun and hand grenades and instead of mounts, we ride around on a T-54 to kill Z’Maja, while the healer’s ultimate calls in a B-1 bomber.

CatalinaWineMixer2

No

If anything, find a way to enforce the roles, at least in Normal Dlc Dungeons and all Vets. More often than not, you're going to clear something when the correct roles are present.

AcadianPaladin

No

Where else exactly should tanks and healers learn, practice and develop their skills and procedures as they try to develop the ability to participate in veteran dungeons?

Orbital78

No

Solo random dungeons for daily rewards will fix everything, except making player want to improve, build/research class setups, or learn mechanics. Who knows maybe it will teach mechanics too.

CalamityCat

No

If you want to run with just DDs, that's when you should really group with guild mates or use group finder.

The current system isn't ideal, but at least when I see who queued as tank/healer I know who to kick if they're utterly useless Otherwise when a boss needs tanking and all we have is a wet noodle arcanist running in loops... it's just mechanics everywhere.

I'd rather there was a system that wouldn't let you queue unless you have either a taunt or some heals slotted as a support. We'd still get some fakers, but nobody could pretend they didn't know what skill to use lol.

ShutUpitsRed

Yes

Normal dungeons should have template builds or at least less complex builds; it's unfair that sweaty PvE mains rush ahead doing 200k dps and leave normal players in the dust and mess up their quests and such.

Jammy420

No

Absolutely not! We do not need to replicate the deepee es fest that other mmos have in dungeons.

allochthons

No

No. This would make the speed runner problem even worse. And what if you get 4 lvl 15s?
I've had runs where I was the only player in the dungeon with CP, and have talked both healers and tanks through some of the basics of those roles. I've been both the tank and healer (at the same time) with 3 non-CPs learning what a light attack is while in a random normal.

Despite random normals being used as a speed run transmute farm for many players, they still play an important role for everyone else.

ShutUpitsRed wrote: »

Normal dungeons should have template builds or at least less complex builds; it's unfair that sweaty PvE mains rush ahead doing 200k dps and leave normal players in the dust and mess up their quests and such.

Vengeance Dungeons? 🤣

PoveusRonin

No

I vote No as I've been in too many dungeons already where I end up tanking as DPS due to players fake tank queuing and if I bring an alt, I would like it to survive if possible.

DoofusMax

Maybe

For the base-game dungeons at normal difficulty, probably. Most can be solo'd without too much problem and a group of four DDs would either clear them easily or learn that slotting a heal somewhere is usually a good thing. That which does not kill me makes me stronger and soul gems cover the rest. Once you move into DLC normals, that proposition becomes more dicey. Some pretty much need a tank and others are just tough slogs that DDs could handle. Better to err or the side of successful completion by requiring roles for those.

EDIT to add: Fake tanks and healers are not the problem, though. They are a symptom of a dungeon queuing system that needs a lot of work.

AzuraFan

Maybe

For most dungeons the roles don't matter because people burn everything down quickly. Sometimes you don't even see any mechanics.

The exception would be the last few dungeons that were released.

Recent

No

I love and respect 'the holy trinity', tank dds and healer.

Since we got the OP Arcanist the group balance in dungeons changed drastically. As a healer myself I see a lot of beamers running ahead of everyone in a dungeon as if they are playing solo. No respect for the tank, no waiting for the newbie who might be picking up their quest. It's a total lack of consideration for anyone else in the group.

There are achievements for no death speed runs and i often wonder if it all started there...players trying to speed run everything.

I don't know what the answer to this is but im old school and i would hate it if all 3 roles became morphed into one solo type build for everyone in group content. Seems like so many players want to change eso into some other game.

As a healer that plays with her tank hubby this post really upsets me cos it makes me feel that we are bejng made redundant. I already encourage my partner ( who recently returned to eso)to hurry up in dungeons when he tanks so the dds dont run ahead of him when we do our random dailies.
We are very grateful for IA and the dungeons we can do together sometimes without other players cos at least we get to enjoy the game without speeding all the time.

I do need to add that there are many considerate players we have been fortunate enough to group with that have been a pleasure to play with. They move at a steady pace and are considerate of others in the group..they allow the tank to do the pulls and dont play as if they are soloing the dungeon.


I cant change people so i adjust, adapt and accept but i do pray that eso doesnt change to the point where it's a game i no longer recognise. Im very dedicated to this game and yes we needed some fresh changes and i have welcomed them all thus far but lets keep the 3 roles as they are thank you.

zaria

No

Ruj wrote: »

All base game dungeons are better run with 4 DPS as long as they have at least some gear sets.
Some DLC normal dungeons need a tank or healer, especially when players are new and don't even have a gear set.


We would need to have 3 random daily dungeon rewards:
base game random normal
DLC random normal
random vet

^ Only if this is done would I consider voting YES.

I would also separate vet and vet dlc. Feels its some overlap, many of the harder normal dlc is harder than some for the base vet ones.
And I know lots would just do the normal dlc for weapon farming, I would probably do.

JHartEllis

I'd say no, but more flexibility would be nice--like I'd be perfectly comfortable being able to queue as ANY role and then play the one I'm assigned since I have Armory build saves for them all. I can imagine that could help decrease queue times for everyone so long as people mostly play along with it.

Orbital78

No

Maybe we will get account wide armory slots and some QOL to the system to make it used more often. If you install Code's Combat alerts it doesn't take much to tank a normal usually. There are a hand full of bosses that have channels that might put too much pressure if you're unprepared.

Frayton

Yes

Just let us customize our dungeon groups for the dungeon queue just like we can with the group finder. Then anyone who wants a 4 DPS group can do that, and the players who want the traditional 2 DPS, 1 tank, 1 healer group can do that too.

I think that would solve a lot of speed runner complaints.

peacenote

No

I would prefer they bring back the option to queue as multiple roles. Especially as we have the Armory now.