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My problem with TESO

  • Corithna
    Corithna
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    Audigy wrote: »
    Dear OP
    The dungeons are also just pathetic. With my addon I noted that I received between 2-4 exp per kill in BC at level 12.... Furthermore, there is NO incentive to do any of these dungeons twice as you do not get the quest rewards after the first time round.

    So you want to kill any type of MMO feeling by doing the same mistakes that wow did? WOW is dead, except for the dungeon part. How is this a worthy MMO that should lead the way for every other MMO?

    Yes I know, SWTOR, GW2 and many other MMO´s who by the way all failed - only play inside dungeons now and the open world is empty, but if you like that why don't you play one of those?
    For one - the interface is just shocking on many levels.

    I love the interface, only a small compass and nothing else, feels real to me. I hated wow´s interface, way too much on your screen. You always felt like "this is a game I play now" and not like "I am a part of this game and to some degree exist inside that world".
    I want to see this game improve, I want to see it fixed and elevated - I just don't know if I am asking for too much. At this stage I can see myself hanging around for maybe 10-15 more levels, and if the same bitterly dissapointing taste lingers, then I might as well hang up my hat and resign to Skyrim.

    The improvements that you suggest however destroy any TES type of feeling, so they don't make any sense to be honest. A valid point would be a crime and thief system, a valid point would be player housing, a valid point would be a stable outside of town where you put your horse etc.

    But UI? Dungeon only?

    Sorry, this is not what TES is. This is World of Dungeoncraft and this game is around the corner for those interested, let TESO be a real TES game please.

    FYI crime system is inbound. As are several other systems that were intentionally left out to facilitate a smooth launch and to allow players to learn about the base of the game. Dark brotherhood, thieves guild, new skill lines, etc also inbound very soon. My advise is to get back into the game and stop worrying so much over what level your character has achieved and start developing what your character can accomplish in a real fight. How can they handle evolving situations that change things up very quickly.
    For all the millions of pages of codified law we have enacted in this nation alone, all of it, every word, sentence, paragraph and nuance, is steeped in the singular idea of this:

    "Be good to one another."
  • JD2013
    JD2013
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    I'm afraid that I couldn't disagree less with you, OP.

    It seems to me that you either don't know what you want from the game or that you expected it to be something completely different than what it is. The UI is very Elder Scrolls. Simple and clean. The world, to me, feels very much alive. I have found myself doing things that I have done in single player ES titles like for example standing and watching the sun rise on top of a hill, standing and listening to NPC's talking randomly, wandering off the beaten path to see what lies over the horizon. Little things that make it a very real ES experience.

    The PVP is far better than GW2. When I played in Cyrodiil during the beta, not only is it a province with quests and the such, it actually feels like you are dead in the middle of a huge scale war. It has an urgency to it that I've never felt in PvP before.

    The crime and justice systems are coming soon along with the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood. They will be implemented as soon as Zenimax can.

    The game has flaws. Absolutely. But for my money, and a game that has only been going for a week (technically it's only been live for 3 days, official launch day wise) it's a great game and a worthy addition to the Elder Scrolls series.

    Also, opening your post by calling anyone who disagrees with you a "fanboy" isn't necessarily conducive towards a balanced debate.
    Sweetrolls for all!

    Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC

    PC Beta Tester January 2014

    Elder of The Black
    Order of Sithis
    The Runners

    @TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
    https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/

    Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!
  • Gohlar
    Gohlar
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    For whatever reason, when an mmo comes out you get people who say the game is perfect the way it is and then take whatever angle they can to back that up.

    They tell you that only having one way to progress, solo questing, is a feature. You shouldn't be grouping in an mmo after all. They will tell you the UI is a work of art, you don't need any information. They will tell that because WoW did something, it's bad, despite this game being different from WoW. They will tell you that because you enjoy doing something different, you are playing incorrectly and you should just leave. The game is perfect after all.

    It's complete nonsense.

    When the subs dry up and the game goes F2P, content releases will slow to a crawl. They will mostly be things added to the in game shop. End game will never even get properly created because eso will turn into a questing, whaling game where you buy pretty outfits in a store.

    I wonder if these people realize that they are, by far, the most destructive force in the game. Maybe they are new to mmos, maybe they just don't learn, but the writing is on the wall for this game and it isn't looking good. The removal of exp from group content is one of the worst moves I've seen an mmo make ever. Alienating players who want to group in an mmo is simply foolish.

    A game company should not take feedback from people who think there is only one way to play an mmo. That's a sure recipe for failure.
    Edited by Gohlar on April 6, 2014 11:00AM
  • Audigy
    Audigy
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    When the subs dry up and the game goes F2P, content releases will slow to a crawl. They will mostly be things added to the in game shop. End game will never even get properly created because eso will turn into a questing, whaling game where you buy pretty outfits in a store.

    Do you realize that SWTOR, Terra, LOTRO, Warhammer, AOC all went F2P after they adjusted to the World of Warcraft features?

    Making TESO another wow clone is poison to the game and will definitely lead to a decline in subs. This isn't witchcraft and easy to understand if you have some experience with the MMO´s of the past 6 years.

    None of them succeeded because they listened to the wow players after launch and adjusted the game to their liking, making everyone who bought the game because it was different to wow, leave.
    Thing is, all those who wanted wow features will leave once the new wow addon is out. Its been like that with every MMO, look at the other games ... they are dead and had to go F2P to even have a tiny bit of players there.

    SWTOR had 30+ servers at release, once they changed important game related things they only had 6 or 7 as people left the game over these changes and servers had to be closed down.
    I wonder if these people realize that they are, by far, the most destructive force in the game. Maybe they are new to mmos, maybe they just don't learn, but the writing is on the wall for this game and it isn't looking good. The removal of exp from group content is one of the worst moves I've seen an mmo make ever. Alienating players who want to group in an mmo is simply foolish.

    I honestly think you have no idea about the MMO world of the past 10 years. I have played them all, I saw how people like you came to the forum demanding that the game is like their precious wow, running off as soon wow had a new content patch.
    There is no point adjusting the game to your kind, you are not loyal and wont stay anyways.

    Besides that, group content is very much alive at TESO. But players finally have a choice if they want to do a dungeon or quest. That choice doesn't exist at wow anymore, its all about dungeons these days.

    Remember Vanilla? When players actually played together in the open world? Exactly this is now happened at TESO! That's what an MMO is about, running dungeons alone isn't.
    A game company should not take feedback from people who think there is only one way to play an mmo. That's a sure recipe for failure.

    Is this a joke or some troll attempt?

    You are the guy here who demands that the game is all about dungeons, not we! I am fine with the current system, people can do dungeons if they like or they quest or craft or do other stuff. We have the choice and freedom to decide what we want.

    You however want to take that freedom away, by making dungeon content mandatory like it is at wow.
  • Gohlar
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    Audigy wrote: »
    Do you realize that SWTOR, Terra, LOTRO, Warhammer, AOC all went F2P after they adjusted to the World of Warcraft features?

    No. Quit making things up.
    Audigy wrote: »
    You are the guy here who demands that the game is all about dungeons, not we! I am fine with the current system, people can do dungeons if they like or they quest or craft or do other stuff. We have the choice and freedom to decide what we want.

    You however want to take that freedom away, by making dungeon content mandatory like it is at wow.

    No. This is the opposite of taking freedom away, that's what you are trying to do. I'm trying to give people options. Dungeons should be on par with questing. Stop with the either/or over dramatic nonsense. I never said the game is all about dungeons. You are a liar and I'd appreciate it if you would stop and stick to reality when discussing things. I'm saying options are good.

    Dungeons aren't even mandatory in WoW to level, people to this day quest to their heart's content. You really need to stop making things up. Also, this isn't WoW! Quit obsessing over that game.

    Remember how I said some people will insist the game is perfect and then do anything they can to support that position? You just provided a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
    Edited by Gohlar on April 6, 2014 1:06PM
  • JD2013
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    If this game were to turn into another WoW clone, that would kill it. Because as stated, the WoW players leave as soon as a new content patch is released.

    I love that this is different to WoW and long may it continue.
    Sweetrolls for all!

    Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC

    PC Beta Tester January 2014

    Elder of The Black
    Order of Sithis
    The Runners

    @TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
    https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/

    Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!
  • Gohlar
    Gohlar
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    I think some of you need to let go of your WoW obsession, this isn't WoW.
  • Leeta
    Leeta
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    I am so tired of people not used to the mmo world. They fail to understand that when the game is new there will be at least a patch every month where they will add things and maybe change things that didnt work out so good. The game wont always look like this, it will get better and better. And for the UI, there are add ons that maybe fits some people better, i know i have some. People will probably make a ton more add ons in the future for the UI.

    Also i dont understand the people saying its all quesy grind bla bla bla, what are the other elder scrolls about? Yea questing and exploring, just like this game.. I think people are way to caught up in games they used to play and compare everything to that.
  • knightblaster
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    The last thing TESO needs is to become a game like World of Dungeoncraft, where many players never set foot in the world, and only grind various finders. It destroys a game world and a game community. Better to have a design where the dungeons are run once for quests, and then repeats for gear. I do expect that the exp will be lifted once a fix is implemented that will allow more xp without allowing them to be grinded out for XP in a hyperefficient manner (as was the case previously), but in general a design that doesn't permit dungeon-only gameplay is a breath of fresh air.
  • BETAOPTICS
    BETAOPTICS
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    Treffer wrote: »
    It shows such a lack of insight and competence on Zenimax's part if they can't even find a middle ground between OP and pointless dungeons. Look through the dungeon forum category, it is flooded with dumbfounded gamers. The dungeon experience is simply broken and needs to be fixed.

    It just seems intensely paternalistic for TESO to be forcing us to play the game in the way they want. That's not what TES games should be. I should be free to progress in a multitude of fashions as opposed to simply grinding quests. They need to fix dungeons ASAP. There are people leaving over this reason alone - check the other forums. The reception towards this dungeon absolution nerf has been scathing.

    This made me thinking. Should they change the format so that you can only do one run each day for that dungeon or a set amount of runs for any dungeon in a day and after that, it would somehow lockdown temporarily. They should then revert the experience gains to how they were.

    This way, most would not be able to exploit them to any extent while still being worth your personal time and best interests to group up and do them as it seems that XP is large part of the incentive of getting people playing them and liking them at the same time.

    What comes to OP comment though. Well your intentions are at least good but I am not sure I'd personally agree that much. The only part I really see being bad is the UI. I have seen worse but it is clumsy at best and lacks several handy tools and information tools that I would want to use and have.
  • Talmet
    Talmet
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    Treffer wrote: »
    I played through TES like many of you and spent around 1% of my life (1800 hours) on Skyrim alone. And as a true TES fanboy I don't think we should be blindly defending a game under the arbitrary pretext of a TES title - if anything I want to actually bring up issues to the fore so that they may be resolved and the game overall, improved.

    I know this might come as a shock, but skyrim was actually the "least TES" game in the series...

    ESO is much more in line with morrowind/arena/daggerfall than skyrim is. This isn't skyrim online, it's more morrowwind online...which, if you are a "true TES fanboy", you'd appreciate.
  • Laura
    Laura
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    I actually really like the UI. I am having no trouble with the veteran dungeons or pvp while watching queues. I am also a healer and I am using no addons.

    The game feels far from lifeless to me and as a poster above said this game is a lot more like elder scrolls than skyrim and oblivion were to those of us who have been playing since arena

    I'm old and can adapt to change why cant you? I find this game amazing and challenging the story is compelling and to be completely honest I would have let your opinion rest if you hadn't called me a "fan girl" for disagreeing with you. I am in five guilds with 200+ people on every day and the only complaints I hear are minor 99% of what they are saying is positive. THe only real complaints I hear are bugged quest complaints which are 100% legit complaints and if they dont fix that soon they have a hot mess on there hands.

    The game itself (outside of the quests) are fine. I am tired of people who have gone as far as playing skyrim thinking they know everything about elder scrolls and think its ALWAYS been like that. This is JUST AS MUCH an elder scrolls game as the rest of them.
  • mutharex
    mutharex
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    It would have been better if they concentrated group content in Public Dungeons and OW Elite Areas, Adventure Zones etc... Dungeons are good for story but you'll always find the player with the wow mentality of staying in town and waiting for the instance to popup and do it over and over to grind xp....
  • LadyChaos
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    Treffer wrote: »
    I can already see what the reactions to this post will be. No doubt thousands of die hard "fanboys" will simply slap a standard "if you don't unconditionally love the game and have any problems with it, LEAVE NOW" response. However I consider myself one of these TES fanboys. I played through TES like many of you and spent around 1% of my life (1800 hours) on Skyrim alone. And as a true TES fanboy I don't think we should be blindly defending a game under the arbitrary pretext of a TES title - if anything I want to actually bring up issues to the fore so that they may be resolved and the game overall, improved.

    The problem here is that the game just feels lifeless - nothing like my immersive and inspiring experiences with the single player TES titles. There are things that MMOs have gotten right 10 years ago (And no, I'm not just talking about WOW, but even the 4/5 other MMOs that existed at that time) that TESO fails to achieve.

    For one - the interface is just shocking on many levels. Unless this is part of Molag-Baal's grand scheme to torment our lives and the UI is in fact created by Daedra as a tool of torture, I can see no reason as to why it is so bad. Just an example of this is how you can't even look up items in the guild store. Yes I know there are filters, and thanks a million Zenimax for allowing me to narrow down my search to "material" because there only like a few of them in the game yeah? I love sifting through pages and pages only to find how much bloody nirnroot or some other mat is going for.

    The dungeons are also just pathetic. With my addon I noted that I received between 2-4 exp per kill in BC at level 12.... Furthermore, there is NO incentive to do any of these dungeons twice as you do not get the quest rewards after the first time round. The exp is the most dire and disgustingly paltry amount that I have ever witnessed in any RPG experience, and the loot is pretty terrible too. In all seriousness, and I am not even joking - I get more gold and exp farming low level mudcrabs and using their abundant rawhide to craft *** and sell to basic merchants.

    PVP is probably the strongpoint of this game, and it pales in comparison to even GW2 just to name a single game. The format is pretty much an attempt at what GW2 pulled off - but it pales in comparison. At least there was a dynamic supply cycle present in the GW2 maps - here you just buy it from a statutory and arbitrary merchant.

    These are just examples of what I hate in this game. I admit there are things I really enjoy - the feel of being able to explore Tamriel for one, but this is not to the credit of Zenimax. It's because of 2 decades of work achieved by the traditional TES titles that I enjoy this feature, TESO doesn't add anything onto that. If anything, zenimax hijacks this amazing platform of lore to host what has thus fur been a soulless experience.

    Why not just give up and leave?

    Personally I feel that I have invested too much into this game, and no I am not talking about money. Money means nothing in such a precious context, I am talking about the vested extrapolation of my past TES experience. I want to see this game improve, I want to see it fixed and elevated - I just don't know if I am asking for too much. At this stage I can see myself hanging around for maybe 10-15 more levels, and if the same bitterly dissapointing taste lingers, then I might as well hang up my hat and resign to Skyrim.

    This quote makes me want to kick people in the skeevers and not read their entire post more than anything on the forums" I can already see what the reactions to this post will be. No doubt thousands of die hard "fanboys" will simply slap a standard "if you don't unconditionally love the game and have any problems with it, LEAVE NOW" response." .. but I did...

    UI Feedback
    I didn't get very real feedback from the comment other than it should have lookup function.. which I agree, but most games don't launch with that. (even GW2 since it gets referenced)

    revisiting (Quest) dungeons
    The desire the "grind" kills for xp is a complaint many many a veteran MMOer has been fighting for years now. Most of us do not want to grind a single dungeon to kill the same 5 types of mobs over and over until our grand-kids create characters, anymore. The storyline should be like a mini series you watch once intently and re-watch occasionally out of nostalgia or with a friend who hasn't seen it before... Yes I like to watch the reruns for fun but I don't expect ot to be the same "whoooo what happens next experience...." I would like to be enthralled to continue to the next eppisode

    PvP (vs GW2)
    PvP is a Strongpoint, but not THE strongpoint, IMO. I would put Lore and franchise customers above PvP draw IMO, but it's not a fact just opinion. I Love the PvP here to be honest. This is the first MMO I could get my husband on board to PvP with me since EVE. I respect your opinion is different for sure... but GW2 PvP has declined to a zerg running from spot to spot farming kharma points and has not been the awesome seige and tactics game it was after launch for bit. This game is correcting some of the GW2 (IMO) flaws that the RvR there has descended into IMO. No one in GW2 cares at all if a keep is held just what kind of kharma points they will earn to get what gear... Which is why my PvP heart is giving this a shot not sporting JQ colors.

    these are only my opinions on the OP points, and I respect other opinions will, and do differ.
    VR2 Ataxia - [NA] Veteran Dominion Sorcerer [Auriel's Bow]
    PvP, PvE, Crafting, and General Shenanigans
    >:) Sorcery and Mayhem online since 1999 >:)
    Current PvP Class/Supernatural Census
  • Gohlar
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    It's funny how people here think WoW invented everything. Veteran mmo players realize how silly the above statement is. A lot of WoW obsession on this forum though, pretty interesting.
    Edited by Gohlar on April 7, 2014 1:58AM
  • MaxBat
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    Okay, I'm going to date myself - and repeat myself - but here goes. I just want to say it's okay to love Skyrim and TESO, and be long time Morrowind fan.

    It really is okay.

    I've been playing TES games for a long, long time. Back to the days of Arena and Daggerfall. I can clearly recall the excitement shared by the TES fanbase when Morrowind was announced - and then released. I recall people talking about how awesome the graphics were (yeah, they actually did - believe it or not). I was an active member of the first TES game forum almost 15 years ago. I was around when Dev was taking the first nervous steps to building FCOM for Oblivion. So, yeah, I must have played over 10,000 hours of TES games.

    As others have said, I haven't liked all the design decisions made by Bethesda. Why did Witchhunters have to go? And remember when Oblivion came out and there was no short blade? Really? Because swinging a claymore is exactly like swinging a dagger?

    As time as passed, the games have become progressively simplified. More emphasis has been placed on graphic development than on substantive depth. Blame it on the millennials, profits, the rush to market, whatever. There is no denying the games have become simpler with each release.

    But still, I liked Skyrim. I loved it, in fact, for all its flaws. I love it despite there being no classes and for what may have been the most uninspiring main quest in the history of modern RPGs. I felt as if some of the minds which created Morrowind had left the studio and now a different, younger generation was taking over. As I played I wished for more of the things that made Morrowind awesome (depth, story, character choices) and even as I wished and wished, I fell in love with Skyrim. I fell in love with some of the quests (the voice acting and emotional depth of the Silverblood quest, for example) and before I knew it, I'd racked up 300 hours in Skyrim. And I'm not done yet.

    I can tell already I'm going to fall in love with TESO. The only thing ZeniMax could do to really break that would be make it so I can't play solo. If I have to rely upon some teenager who thinks "***" is a hilariously witty character name (yes, he was on the Dominion zone four days ago) just to finish a dungeon, I'll probably unsubscribe. Or maybe not. Yes, I love the franchise that much.

    And already, I'm liking some of the quests - some of the humor, some of the sadness. I guess I don't play these games because short blade is skill, I play them because they take me away from the world I live in. TESO is doing that nicely.

    The game isn't perfect. Even the fanboys know it's not perfect, whether they will admit it or not. It will get better. But - for me - it'll never be the same as that moment when I first saw Seyda Neen from the deck of a boat. But we can't go back, and from what little I've seen of the Ebondheart Pact, Vvardenfell is still looking pretty good.
    Edited by MaxBat on April 7, 2014 2:03AM
    "Funny that magic doesn't work when a mace caves in your skull."

    Playing on a PC, NA Server, since that very first day ...
  • cf197778_ESO
    I whole heartedly agree with the post. I would like to add that they also took the multiplayer out of the game when they penalized the higher level players for grouping with lower levels. The higher level people cant even loot the mobs to help with the repair bills resulting from their charity. They have no mentor program, so in a sense, its really a single player game. Why would anyone want to recruit friends to play the game at this point? I didn't buy a multiplayer game to be punished for grouping with my friends. Not jumping back to the old areas also makes the game very linear. I cant speak much for the game after vet level 1 because Molag Baal is bugged and I was unable to continue past that point.
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