What happens when PCNA is the only server left in the Battle?

Syldras

metheglyn wrote: »

I think that's the achievement in question. I'll probably skip it anyway, because Writhing Fortress doesn't sound fun to me.

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Yeah, also if progress holds steady it seems like we're gonna get to phase 3 kinda around Thanksgiving on PC/NA. I can only speak for myself, but I have much more important things to do around that time, so even if I was interested it seems like I'd potentially miss out anyway.

If that's really the only achievement, we can safely assume that there will be complaints when the event is over. Complaints by people who have been grinding for several weeks but then didn't have time within those last few days because of family, travel, job, illness or whatever. Doesn't sound fair to me either.

Elvenheart

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Honest question..

Would PCNA players be willing to forgo the associated achievement if they were allowed to skip the grind?

For me, if after all we’ve had to do thus far to make it to the final phase in which we only have 7 days to get the achievement and the title that goes with it, something were to happen to prevent us from getting it I would be more mad than I ever have been about anything in this game, even that disaster of a 10th anniversary event. Collecting achievements and their corresponding rewards (if any) is one of my favorite things in this game, and if their once in a lifetime event with the dangling achievement and title at the end was to lose that perk they would probably lose every penny they would ever have gotten from me for the rest of the life of this game.

SilverBride

As far as forgoing the achievement to skip the grind... it's too late for that. We've already been grinding for weeks and that can't be undone.

Orbital78

SilverBride wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Honest question..

Would PCNA players be willing to forgo the associated achieveme.
nt if they were allowed to skip the grind?

Absolutely not. It already feels punitive enough as it is, with progress being tweaked more than once.

Oh, so it's okay for you to get the achievevment as long as somebody else does all the work?

Be careul when tossing around words like "fair".

PCNA is working for it. At least those that haven't given up because our progress was decreased and it's now even more grindy than it already was.

They should have put it on a level play field from the start and PC-NA would have been done already. Thankfully Enshrouded and Aska just released some great updates. Even the Stream Team are playing to take a break from the wall grind.

SilverBride

Orbital78 wrote: »

They should have put it on a level play field from the start and PC-NA would have been done already.

I agree. But it's not too late to fix it now.

code65536

Serious question: Who cares?

I don't care, and most people I know don't care.

Not sure I'd call it a grind, either. Every day, I do one siege camp, which takes care of both the camp quest and the souls quest (tip: if you do a heavy attack you'll get way more souls and you'll always get all 15 souls from a single camp), and then I do one crafting quest. And I'm done with the event for the day. 5-10 minutes is all it takes.

I know there are people who do this thing on 20 characters and get hundreds of blue boxes per day, and for people who do that, they're going to be burned out and they'll want this event to end ASAP.

But since I'm spending only 5-10 minutes per day to get my 3 golden boxes, I don't care if this event goes on for another month.

And maybe this is why PC/NA is "losing". But why does that even matter?

iGuavaTH

You pull yourself up by your bootstraps, isn't that the American way?

SilverBride

code65536 wrote: »

Serious question: Who cares?

I care and many others care. We can't access the rest of the content we paid for until this is over.

DenverRalphy

SilverBride wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Serious question: Who cares?

I care and many others care. We can't access the rest of the content we paid for until this is over.

Then do something about it. Push the bar along.

Syldras

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Then do something about it. Push the bar along.

So ZOS will claim it was a success and repeat all this?

SilverBride

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Serious question: Who cares?

I care and many others care. We can't access the rest of the content we paid for until this is over.

Then do something about it. Push the bar along.

We do not agree so let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

DenverRalphy

Syldras wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Then do something about it. Push the bar along.

So ZOS will claim it was a success and repeat all this?

No. I couldn't care less whether ZOS claims it a success or a failure. That has zero effect on my gameplay. I'd just rather not get hungup on principals if it means prolonging the misery.

Personofsecrets

We cook

BradTheNord

We all laugh and point at PCNA

Ingenon

Syldras wrote: »

Isn't the achievement only for completing the Writhing Fortress anyway? Which means people who can't log in within the 7 days it will be available will miss it?

Separately, I hope that ZOS revisits this apparent decision. Limiting the opportunity to get the ESO "Wall Breaker Title" to a seven day period means that some ESO players won't get it because of work, holiday, vacation, illness, etc. People don't get to choose when something comes up in real life and they don't get to play ESO for a few days. I don't see that leaving the fortress in game "forever" breaks anything. A player may have a really hard time getting a group together if needed to complete (looking at you, Bastion Nymic), but at least it isn't "impossible".

tomofhyrule

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Serious question: Who cares?

I care and many others care. We can't access the rest of the content we paid for until this is over.

Then do something about it. Push the bar along.

And you have actual physical proof that contribution does matter?

Not “ZOS says it does,” that’s not proof. I mean how many points does each quest give and how many points are needed to advance?

You know, like we have on our XP bars.

Syldras

DenverRalphy wrote: »

No. I couldn't care less whether ZOS claims it a success or a failure. That has zero effect on my gameplay. I'd just rather not get hungup on principals if it means prolonging the misery.

You missed the important part of what I wrote: If they deem it a "success", they might release more content like this in the future. Do you want that?

AzuraFan

BradTheNord wrote: »

We all laugh and point at PCNA

I'm on PC/NA and this cracked me up. It's cringey to have a few people on my server crying for an easy way out. Sorry on behalf of everyone else on PC/NA.

code65536 wrote: »

Serious question: Who cares?

I don't care, and most people I know don't care.

Not sure I'd call it a grind, either. Every day, I do one siege camp, which takes care of both the camp quest and the souls quest (tip: if you do a heavy attack you'll get way more souls and you'll always get all 15 souls from a single camp), and then I do one crafting quest. And I'm done with the event for the day. 5-10 minutes is all it takes.

Agreed. People aren't complaining in any of the guilds I belong to, and I haven't seen much complaining in zone chat either. The grind for this event is optional. We'll eventually get there. There isn't any new content coming out for a while, so I can wait a little longer to get into Eastern Solstice, which appears to have less to do than the western part of the island did.

Syldras wrote: »

If that's really the only achievement, we can safely assume that there will be complaints when the event is over. Complaints by people who have been grinding for several weeks but then didn't have time within those last few days because of family, travel, job, illness or whatever. Doesn't sound fair to me either.

Given the length of the event, the achievement should be given to anyone who participated in any phase, and not just those who were there for a small window of time. That would be unfair and I hope ZOS changes this.

DenverRalphy

tomofhyrule wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Serious question: Who cares?

I care and many others care. We can't access the rest of the content we paid for until this is over.

Then do something about it. Push the bar along.

And you have actual physical proof that contribution does matter?

Not “ZOS says it does,” that’s not proof. I mean how many points does each quest give and how many points are needed to advance?

You know, like we have on our XP bars.

I have about as much proof as you or any naysayers have that participation/contribution doesn't matter.

tomofhyrule

DenverRalphy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Serious question: Who cares?

I care and many others care. We can't access the rest of the content we paid for until this is over.

Then do something about it. Push the bar along.

And you have actual physical proof that contribution does matter?

Not “ZOS says it does,” that’s not proof. I mean how many points does each quest give and how many points are needed to advance?

You know, like we have on our XP bars.

I have about as much proof as you or any naysayers have that participation/contribution doesn't matter.

However we do have proof that participation doesn’t matter.

1) The goalposts were moved several times at the beginning of the event. You don’t ever see them stop a marathon in the middle and say “actually, the finish line is moving now to some unspecified place.”

2) The event literally cannot fail. Even in the circumstance where everyone decided not to grind, the event would have to complete and allow people access to the other side. Otherwise that is a major lawsuit for not delivering content that was purchased.

But instead of drinking the Kool-aid and lapping up this division between servers that ZOS is so keen on, maybe you could go help out underperforming servers yourself. Be the person bringing connection and hope into the world, instead of the one driving division.

DenverRalphy

Syldras wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

No. I couldn't care less whether ZOS claims it a success or a failure. That has zero effect on my gameplay. I'd just rather not get hungup on principals if it means prolonging the misery.

You missed the important part of what I wrote: If they deem it a "success", they might release more content like this in the future. Do you want that?

Whether they deem it a success or not is irrelevant. ZOS may be many things, but despite popular opinion, they're not stupid. They know very well how ill-received this event has been taken. They're accutely aware of all the things that went wrong with it. I'm sure there are likely a few employees at ZOS who are a bit nervous because their job security may not be as certain as it was before the event.

But none of that matters. Because declaring it a success. or admitting to a flop for all the world to see, isn't going to matter one bit whether they choose to repeat those mistakes or not. They can't lie to themselves.

DenverRalphy

tomofhyrule wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Serious question: Who cares?

I care and many others care. We can't access the rest of the content we paid for until this is over.

Then do something about it. Push the bar along.

And you have actual physical proof that contribution does matter?

Not “ZOS says it does,” that’s not proof. I mean how many points does each quest give and how many points are needed to advance?

You know, like we have on our XP bars.

I have about as much proof as you or any naysayers have that participation/contribution doesn't matter.

However we do have proof that participation doesn’t matter.

1) The goalposts were moved several times at the beginning of the event. You don’t ever see them stop a marathon in the middle and say “actually, the finish line is moving now to some unspecified place.”

2) The event literally cannot fail. Even in the circumstance where everyone decided not to grind, the event would have to complete and allow people access to the other side. Otherwise that is a major lawsuit for not delivering content that was purchased.

But instead of drinking the Kool-aid and lapping up this division between servers that ZOS is so keen on, maybe you could go help out underperforming servers yourself. Be the person bringing connection and hope into the world, instead of the one driving division.

You keep going back to the beginning of the event when that graph showed the changes to progress at the beginning.

All that proves is that they were able to ensure that Phase 2 couldn't complete until U48 landed on consoles. The console servers were negatively affected more than the PC servers during those adjustments, yet everybody only seems to recall that PC servers were adjusted. Those adjustments can easily be explained as ZOS dialing in the metrics for the formula they're using to calculate across all servers.

So no. You have no proof of any fix occuring beyond ensuring the first place server didn't get there before Nov 12th.

SilverBride

AzuraFan wrote: »

Given the length of the event, the achievement should be given to anyone who participated in any phase, and not just those who were there for a small window of time. That would be unfair and I hope ZOS changes this.

This is exactly what should happen. Every single player that did even one quest contributed to bringing down the wall.

JustLovely

Nothing. It doesn't matter.

code65536

tomofhyrule wrote: »

1) The goalposts were moved several times at the beginning of the event. You don’t ever see them stop a marathon in the middle and say “actually, the finish line is moving now to some unspecified place.”

I didn't know that "twice" qualifies as "several". Both times, the reasoning was communicated. And the first time literally within an hour of the start of the event, so I'm inclined to believe their claim of launch issues.

tomofhyrule

DenverRalphy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Serious question: Who cares?

I care and many others care. We can't access the rest of the content we paid for until this is over.

Then do something about it. Push the bar along.

And you have actual physical proof that contribution does matter?

Not “ZOS says it does,” that’s not proof. I mean how many points does each quest give and how many points are needed to advance?

You know, like we have on our XP bars.

I have about as much proof as you or any naysayers have that participation/contribution doesn't matter.

However we do have proof that participation doesn’t matter.

1) The goalposts were moved several times at the beginning of the event. You don’t ever see them stop a marathon in the middle and say “actually, the finish line is moving now to some unspecified place.”

2) The event literally cannot fail. Even in the circumstance where everyone decided not to grind, the event would have to complete and allow people access to the other side. Otherwise that is a major lawsuit for not delivering content that was purchased.

But instead of drinking the Kool-aid and lapping up this division between servers that ZOS is so keen on, maybe you could go help out underperforming servers yourself. Be the person bringing connection and hope into the world, instead of the one driving division.

You keep going back to the beginning of the event when that graph showed the changes to progress at the beginning.

All that proves is that they were able to ensure that Phase 2 couldn't complete until U48 landed on consoles. The console servers were negatively affected more than the PC servers during those adjustments, yet everybody only seems to recall that PC servers were adjusted. Those adjustments can easily be explained as ZOS dialing in the metrics for the formula they're using to calculate across all servers.

So no. You have no proof of any fix occuring beyond ensuring the first place server didn't get there before Nov 12th.

And you think that they have a psychic on staff to accurately predict the playerbase’s desire to keep grinding a month out? Especially when they have demonstrably not been able to predict player sentiment when they are actively told on PTS that something will be bad for the game?

Look, “just go in and grind to do your part for your server!” is a call to work. Not play. None of us wants to get home after a long day of work to relax and… work more. If the event requires players to pay to do a job, it is a dumb event and anyone who expects people to pay for the privilege of doing a job is functionally
stupid. Full stop. No amount of of you or anyone else trying to convince people otherwise will make them want to work for free (and actively slighting the other servers for being behind will make them want to do so even less).

We have players who already complain that the standard 13-day events are too long. And the answer was… to have an event that requires grinding that is now on day 30 and counting? We have players who feel that events are too grindy and unrewarding, and the answer was… to make the event boxes drop even less and have a bar that’s always in your face to ask for more grinding? We have players who already say the community feeling is gone, and the answer was… to pit the servers against each other so we have people talking smack about other servers?

So fine, let’s operate under your assumption that both regions have the same goal (which is unlikely, especially since it is known that XB really doesn’t have a gaming foothold outside the US in the first place, so there’s no way that the install base for XBEU could match XBNA). We can still see that all NA servers are behind the respective EU. Maybe that’s something ZOS should look into - is there a reason NA isn’t as active? Do they have fewer active accounts (if so, why not give them a lower target like they did for PC vs XB)? Do they feel like they don’t want to pay for the privilege to work (if so, why not modify it so each quest gives more points to the final)? Or does NA just feel slighted by ZOS recently (I mean, it’s not like they had their anniversary event cancelled and they all miss the last day of tickets every event and they only get their characters for the first two most unpolished weeks every PTS cycle, while all EU has to deal with is that maintenances are just before their primetime so if they go long it can extend into their primetime)?

The point still stands: this event requires people to pay ZOS to be able to grind something, and now it’s set such that we can’t get what we paid for unless enough people (who are not being paid) decide to do unfun things like grinding. Previous events had all servers work together to reach a goal (not to mention said goal being much more rewarding). This one drives division, gives less, and the fact that the rest of the content is right there and just turned off because ZOS wants it off just make it all seem hollow.

Yes, people stopped caring. And that’s not an ‘us’ problem. That’s a ZOS problem. Because if people don’t care, then they’re not going to pay for the privilege of doing this again. We already know that there are people who are not going to buy next season’s pass specifically because of how bad this one went. This event, if the goal is to keep driving annoyance, is only going to make fewer people buy the next one. Do ZOS’s employees really think that this is going to be good for their bottom line in the future?
…so really that means that if the bar’s not moving, then all of the ZOS glazers who think this is great should be the ones logging onto the underperforming servers to push them along, because if it goes too long and the players start leaving and Microsoft pulls the plug… well, then your game ends too, no matter how much fun you’re having with the empty grind.

RaddlemanNumber7

ZoS have a plan. They have their hands on all the levers. The event will finish on time on all servers.

Look at the dates. The GP, and the event, will finish on the day before Thanksgiving. The last server will reach Phase 3 a week before that, on 22nd Nov.

At this point that gives PCNA 7 days to get the 44% needed to complete phase 2. No problem there given their current rate of progress.

If PCNA are the last server still on phase 2 that will only last for 2 or 3 days. No worries.

Players in the USA will have an extra reason to celebrate Thanksgiving this year.

DenverRalphy

tomofhyrule wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Serious question: Who cares?

I care and many others care. We can't access the rest of the content we paid for until this is over.

Then do something about it. Push the bar along.

And you have actual physical proof that contribution does matter?

Not “ZOS says it does,” that’s not proof. I mean how many points does each quest give and how many points are needed to advance?

You know, like we have on our XP bars.

I have about as much proof as you or any naysayers have that participation/contribution doesn't matter.

However we do have proof that participation doesn’t matter.

1) The goalposts were moved several times at the beginning of the event. You don’t ever see them stop a marathon in the middle and say “actually, the finish line is moving now to some unspecified place.”

2) The event literally cannot fail. Even in the circumstance where everyone decided not to grind, the event would have to complete and allow people access to the other side. Otherwise that is a major lawsuit for not delivering content that was purchased.

But instead of drinking the Kool-aid and lapping up this division between servers that ZOS is so keen on, maybe you could go help out underperforming servers yourself. Be the person bringing connection and hope into the world, instead of the one driving division.

You keep going back to the beginning of the event when that graph showed the changes to progress at the beginning.

All that proves is that they were able to ensure that Phase 2 couldn't complete until U48 landed on consoles. The console servers were negatively affected more than the PC servers during those adjustments, yet everybody only seems to recall that PC servers were adjusted. Those adjustments can easily be explained as ZOS dialing in the metrics for the formula they're using to calculate across all servers.

So no. You have no proof of any fix occuring beyond ensuring the first place server didn't get there before Nov 12th.

And you think that they have a psychic on staff to accurately predict the playerbase’s desire to keep grinding a month out? Especially when they have demonstrably not been able to predict player sentiment when they are actively told on PTS that something will be bad for the game?

<condensed for brevity>

Look, “just go in and grind to do your part for your server!” is a call to work. Not play. None of us wants to get home after a long day of work to relax and… work more. If the event requires players to pay to do a job, it is a dumb event and anyone who expects people to pay for the privilege of doing a job is functionally
stupid. Full stop. No amount of of you or anyone else trying to convince people otherwise will make them want to work for free (and actively slighting the other servers for being behind will make them want to do so even less).

We have players who already complain that the standard 13-day events are too long. And the answer was… to have an event that requires grinding that is now on day 30 and counting? We have players who feel that events are too grindy and unrewarding, and the answer was… to make the event boxes drop even less and have a bar that’s always in your face to ask for more grinding? We have players who already say the community feeling is gone, and the answer was… to pit the servers against each other so we have people talking smack about other servers?

So fine, let’s operate under your assumption that both regions have the same goal (which is unlikely, especially since it is known that XB really doesn’t have a gaming foothold outside the US in the first place, so there’s no way that the install base for XBEU could match XBNA). We can still see that all NA servers are behind the respective EU. Maybe that’s something ZOS should look into - is there a reason NA isn’t as active? Do they have fewer active accounts (if so, why not give them a lower target like they did for PC vs XB)? Do they feel like they don’t want to pay for the privilege to work (if so, why not modify it so each quest gives more points to the final)? Or does NA just feel slighted by ZOS recently (I mean, it’s not like they had their anniversary event cancelled and they all miss the last day of tickets every event and they only get their characters for the first two most unpolished weeks every PTS cycle, while all EU has to deal with is that maintenances are just before their primetime so if they go long it can extend into their primetime)?

The point still stands: this event requires people to pay ZOS to be able to grind something, and now it’s set such that we can’t get what we paid for unless enough people (who are not being paid) decide to do unfun things like grinding. Previous events had all servers work together to reach a goal (not to mention said goal being much more rewarding). This one drives division, gives less, and the fact that the rest of the content is right there and just turned off because ZOS wants it off just make it all seem hollow.

Yes, people stopped caring. And that’s not an ‘us’ problem. That’s a ZOS problem. Because if people don’t care, then they’re not going to pay for the privilege of doing this again. We already know that there are people who are not going to buy next season’s pass specifically because of how bad this one went. This event, if the goal is to keep driving annoyance, is only going to make fewer people buy the next one. Do ZOS’s employees really think that this is going to be good for their bottom line in the future?
…so really that means that if the bar’s not moving, then all of the ZOS glazers who think this is great should be the ones logging onto the underperforming servers to push them along, because if it goes too long and the players start leaving and Microsoft pulls the plug… well, then your game ends too, no matter how much fun you’re having with the empty grind.

And all of that is irrelevant. Nobody's contesting how poorly planned and designed the WW event is. Players have two options.. push the bar, or sit back and wait.

SeaGtGruff

Well, I've started cutting back on the amount of my PCEU participation, from 24 quests on my main to just 4 quests, so I can increase my participation on PCNA, from 24 quests on just my main to 24 quests on my main plus as many alts as I can fit in. Last night I managed to do 24 quests on 4 PCNA characters, but part of that time was spent on getting one of those alts set up with better gear, so tonight hopefully I'll be able to do 24 quests on 6 or more characters.

As for what I think will happen when all of the other servers finish the event and only one server is left, who knows? Unless a lot of players decide to just give up, I don't think it should take the last server more than a few days longer to finish as well.

SilverBride

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Unless a lot of players decide to just give up, I don't think it should take the last server more than a few days longer to finish as well.

I don't think players are giving up as much as just not participating in any more grind events. I thought Anniversary was bad (it was) but it doesn't compare to the new heights of tedious grinding that have been reached with this one.

Why should we participate and just reinforce that we will do whatever they bring to us, no matter how bad it is?