What is the point of having Patch Notes if massive changes go undocumented?

Dock01

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin You should let them know we also want to get rid of the MMR reset. There are like 10 threads on this issue already. Its killing the game for a lot of newer players when you have us sweaty players going 50/0 every match because we are stuck being qued against these people every other month.

We have shared the note on MMR reset in the past. Happy to do so again. My understanding is additional tech work needs to be done to make that happen. But I do not have a status on that right now.

YOU SHOULD ADD ROLES TOO, IF THE ENEMY HAS A HEALER AND I DONT WE LOST, THEYLL JUST KEEP HEALING NON STOP EVEN IF YOU FOCUS ON THEIR HEALER

Major_Mangle

Sorry for tagging you @ZOS_Kevin but any news on fixing the bug where Critical Heal medal (heal for 10k) gives more points than intended? It´s supposed to reward 5 points but currently rewards the player with 20 points. It´s been like this for years. It makes no sense that the medal for healing for 10k gives more points than the one healing for 15k (Rapid Recovery). While the 4v4 leaderboard isn´t competitive in the slightest, you know it´s bad when every single one in the top of said leaderboard are sorc healers abusing this bugged medal.

MincMincMinc

Dock01 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin You should let them know we also want to get rid of the MMR reset. There are like 10 threads on this issue already. Its killing the game for a lot of newer players when you have us sweaty players going 50/0 every match because we are stuck being qued against these people every other month.

We have shared the note on MMR reset in the past. Happy to do so again. My understanding is additional tech work needs to be done to make that happen. But I do not have a status on that right now.

YOU SHOULD ADD ROLES TOO, IF THE ENEMY HAS A HEALER AND I DONT WE LOST, THEYLL JUST KEEP HEALING NON STOP EVEN IF YOU FOCUS ON THEIR HEALER

Roles just dont matter, ill que for tank or healer or dps whichever is fastest. Instead you would be better off saving the last match's heal variable and balance out teams after matchmaking to separate the healers as best as you can.

ruskiii

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Sorry for tagging you @ZOS_Kevin but any news on fixing the bug where Critical Heal medal (heal for 10k) gives more points than intended? It´s supposed to reward 5 points but currently rewards the player with 20 points. It´s been like this for years. It makes no sense that the medal for healing for 10k gives more points than the one healing for 15k (Rapid Recovery). While the 4v4 leaderboard isn´t competitive in the slightest, you know it´s bad when every single one in the top of said leaderboard are sorc healers abusing this bugged medal.

You are right but the numbers are off. It should award 10 points like it states in the help menu and in line with the crit damage medal, but it actually awards 100 points.

imPDA

@ZOS_Kevin I was wondering why the Battleground queue doesn't follow the same procedure as the dungeon queue? For dungeons, once a group is found, you have to confirm you're ready - and only then are you teleported in. BGs are completely different; it checks your ready state after teleporting you. So if the group isn't full, a player has to sit there and do literally nothing for 5 minutes.

PvPers aren't very vocal on the forums because, let's be honest, PvP has received almost no love for the last two years. The PvP community is small right now, so you might not be aware of this, but those 5 minutes of forced inactivity really *** people off and make them quit PvP.

If you move the ready check before the teleport, it might lengthen the search time slightly (if someone doesn't confirm, it would need to find a new player), but at least everyone could finish their daily crafting, work on a quest, or go fishing instead of just standing or jumping on a spawn point.

Another thing - why is ESO missing a "concede" option? Especially in 4v4. I've seen many forum posts about teams that just give up and stand at the spawn point when they're being dominated. This wastes all 8 players' time (and again, it pisses people off and makes them avoid BGs). Let the majority vote to concede. They could then re-queue, hopefully get a better match, and actually play instead of waiting out the clock.

Yes, you can leave a BG, but the penalty is HUGE. You tried to add an auto-teleport for inactive players to fix this, but from my perspective, it failed. I see BG after BG where players just stand at spawn waiting for the timer to run out. They know they'll lose, but people hate dying repeatedly, so they stay put. Give them a different way to lose - via a vote. It's a much better alternative for everyone involved.

This reminds me of a known solution airports use for wait times. People used to complain endlessly about waiting for their luggage, even though the delivery time was short. The airports didn't make the luggage arrive faster; they just made the walk from the gate to baggage claim longer. Now people spend the time walking instead of waiting, and complaints have dropped to zero. The lesson? Don't make people wait idly, or you'll face disappointment. Find a way to make the time feel productive or give them control. https://service-design.co/make-your-customers-busy-during-the-waiting-time-ad8a8e7e9172

I actually have much more to say, but the forum hasn't been helpful for the last two years. Almost every suggestion is ignored or "fixed" in a way that makes things worse (RIP Ravenwatch). So this post will probably also sink unheard, and I'm almost not even complaining about it anymore.

P.S. I've noticed that matches can sometimes start with only 6 players in a team (or at least they could at the start of the week, as per my screenshot - I don't have any of 6v6, though; it's either rare or I haven't paid enough attention). Did I misunderstand how the team size is supposed to work?

P.P.S. Regarding the bonus for missing players: Will it be available for the entire duration of a BG, and will it be adjusted dynamically? For example, if 3 people leave, will the remaining players get a +15% bonus ? And if 3 new people join later, will the bonus reset to 0%?

ruskiii

imPDA wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin I was wondering why the Battleground queue doesn't follow the same procedure as the dungeon queue? For dungeons, once a group is found, you have to confirm you're ready - and only then are you teleported in. BGs are completely different; it checks your ready state after teleporting you. So if the group isn't full, a player has to sit there and do literally nothing for 5 minutes.

PvPers aren't very vocal on the forums because, let's be honest, PvP has received almost no love for the last two years. The PvP community is small right now, so you might not be aware of this, but those 5 minutes of forced inactivity really *** people off and make them quit PvP.

If you move the ready check before the teleport, it might lengthen the search time slightly (if someone doesn't confirm, it would need to find a new player), but at least everyone could finish their daily crafting, work on a quest, or go fishing instead of just standing or jumping on a spawn point.

Another thing - why is ESO missing a "concede" option? Especially in 4v4. I've seen many forum posts about teams that just give up and stand at the spawn point when they're being dominated. This wastes all 8 players' time (and again, it pisses people off and makes them avoid BGs). Let the majority vote to concede. They could then re-queue, hopefully get a better match, and actually play instead of waiting out the clock.

Yes, you can leave a BG, but the penalty is HUGE. You tried to add an auto-teleport for inactive players to fix this, but from my perspective, it failed. I see BG after BG where players just stand at spawn waiting for the timer to run out. They know they'll lose, but people hate dying repeatedly, so they stay put. Give them a different way to lose - via a vote. It's a much better alternative for everyone involved.

This reminds me of a known solution airports use for wait times. People used to complain endlessly about waiting for their luggage, even though the delivery time was short. The airports didn't make the luggage arrive faster; they just made the walk from the gate to baggage claim longer. Now people spend the time walking instead of waiting, and complaints have dropped to zero. The lesson? Don't make people wait idly, or you'll face disappointment. Find a way to make the time feel productive or give them control. https://service-design.co/make-your-customers-busy-during-the-waiting-time-ad8a8e7e9172

I actually have much more to say, but the forum hasn't been helpful for the last two years. Almost every suggestion is ignored or "fixed" in a way that makes things worse (RIP Ravenwatch). So this post will probably also sink unheard, and I'm almost not even complaining about it anymore.

P.S. I've noticed that matches can sometimes start with only 6 players in a team (or at least they could at the start of the week, as per my screenshot - I don't have any of 6v6, though; it's either rare or I haven't paid enough attention). Did I misunderstand how the team size is supposed to work?

P.P.S. Regarding the bonus for missing players: Will it be available for the entire duration of a BG, and will it be adjusted dynamically? For example, if 3 people leave, will the remaining players get a +15% bonus ? And if 3 new people join later, will the bonus reset to 0%?

Hey Impda, youll be happy to know that since the change in U47 to let games start without full teams again, there is no longer any dead lobbies (at least I've not had one yet). I think making the queue check like a dungeon would, as you say, make the queue times longer. It seems like the queues are in a healthy place again since U47.

Now we just need to convince them to stop resetting MMR every month and BGs could be in the best state since I started playing in 2021.

Love the addons by the way Impda. Thanks for all the work you put into making a better PVP experience.

imPDA

I don't know, it looks like you booked a 5-star hotel, but it's actually only named "5-Star," while in fact it's a 4-star. So these BGs are now 8v8, but they're actually 6v6 or 7v7.

It's worse for 4v4 because one player missing can be huge, and I saw a post about a 3v4 experience recently This looks like masking the problem instead of implementing a proper solution - and that solution even exists! The dungeon queue has it; it's not something entirely new. It exists and works well in other games.

Another possibility: you could make it 6v6 instead of 8v8. It's become obvious that it's hard to find 16 players, but pretty easy to find 12, like it was long ago with 4v4v4.

I don't like the underdog buff either. It's a sort of hidden mechanic that won't make a weak player stronger, but it gives a strong player even more survivability and plain damage. So it looks more like a workaround.

The MMR reset isn't actually a problem since there simply is no MMR atm Once it's public and available, it will make sense to have MMR be permanent with rare resets (on big updates, for example) with calibration afterwards, etc, as it's implemented in literally all other games.

ruskiii

imPDA wrote: »

I don't know, it looks like you booked a 5-star hotel, but it's actually only named "5-Star," while in fact it's a 4-star. So these BGs are now 8v8, but they're actually 6v6 or 7v7.

It's worse for 4v4 because one player missing can be huge, and I saw a post about a 3v4 experience recently This looks like masking the problem instead of implementing a proper solution - and that solution even exists! The dungeon queue has it; it's not something entirely new. It exists and works well in other games.

Another possibility: you could make it 6v6 instead of 8v8. It's become obvious that it's hard to find 16 players, but pretty easy to find 12, like it was long ago with 4v4v4.

I don't like the underdog buff either. It's a sort of hidden mechanic that won't make a weak player stronger, but it gives a strong player even more survivability and plain damage. So it looks more like a workaround.

The MMR reset isn't actually a problem since there simply is no MMR atm Once it's public and available, it will make sense to have MMR be permanent with rare resets (on big updates, for example) with calibration afterwards, etc, as it's implemented in literally all other games.

It is very rare that the game doesnt fill before the "45 seconds to start" timer ends. Even still, until they stop resetting MMR i would take a 5% buff over a random daily quester filling my team any day of the week.

On PC EU its a bit different because it seems there has been a significant amount of brain drain with some of the higher skilled players moving to NA, not playing as many BGs or quitting the game entirely. On the other hand, PC NA has a very active BG scene right now.

No problems filling games here any time of day or night. We set up an unlisted BG guild, only invite decent players and it maxed out 500/500 in 3 months. Now we are at the end of the month and the MMR has had a little time to sort itself out, we are now seeing more balanced lobbies on NA. Unfortunately this will reset in 2 days and there will be another 3 weeks of mixed lobbies until it rights itself again.

I'd rather not spend extra time queueing with a dungeon style system, in my opinion it is much better that games start and we can play with less waiting (i think weve all had enough waiting since U44 lol).

EDIT: as of at least the 30th August, games no longer start with 6 people on a team. Now it is 7 per team minimum in 8v8. Sadge.