Public formal confirmation that griefing and bullying isn't against Code of Conduct

Ishtarknows

Asikoo wrote: »

So, did I reply to both of your questions? Yes.[/i]

No, not really.

Why should others carry your shortfall in veteran DLC dungeons and also be considered toxic if they either don't want to do so, or are struggling to make up for the difference and would rather have someone who will actually do 50% of the required DD job

The second part of my question is the important bit. It gives insight into why lower DPS might be unwanted. It can make the rest of the group's life much harder, especially supports. If someone in your group is making your life more difficult (and possibly affecting your ability to complete content) why's it toxic to want to change that? Why does the reason matter more if it's because of lower DPS?


Edited, trying to fix quotations

Asikoo

I have a few important questions about this topic. Any player who replies won’t have the actual numbers, but ZoS does.

1. How many players quit ESO because they get kicked from content, simply because others can do it?
2. How many players quit ESO because of constant trolling and harassment over low DPS?
3. How many players are locked out of harder content just because they don’t want to join Discord, post parses, or meet arbitrary requirements and as a result, feel excluded from the game?
4. How many players has ESO lost in total because of these issues?

And then, on the other side:
How many players actually buy ESO and stay, because they enjoy the “luxury” of kicking others out and bullying them?

I don’t know the numbers, but ZoS does. And if, for example, even three players leave because of the first four reasons, while only one stays for the last one, then clearly something is not right.

When ZoS released subclassing, that was the moment I had enough of all the nonsense. I didn’t stop playing only because of subclassing, but because of everything I’ve already mentioned. There is simply too much toxicity in this game and all of it comes from DPS sharing and ESO Logs. Every single case of toxicity I’ve seen in ESO has been tied to that.

Instead of adding subclassing, which strips away the very essence of Elder Scrolls, maybe ZoS should focus on removing DPS sharing and ESO Logs, since those are the real sources of toxicity in the game.
But clearly, ZoS has other plans. Unique classes, identity, fun, and joy don’t seem to be welcome anymore… but toxicity is.

Well… it is what it is.

loosej

Asikoo wrote: »

I have a few important questions about this topic. Any player who replies won’t have the actual numbers, but ZoS does.

1. How many players quit ESO because they get kicked from content, simply because others can do it?
2. How many players quit ESO because of constant trolling and harassment over low DPS?
3. How many players are locked out of harder content just because they don’t want to join Discord, post parses, or meet arbitrary requirements and as a result, feel excluded from the game?
4. How many players has ESO lost in total because of these issues?

And then, on the other side:
How many players actually buy ESO and stay, because they enjoy the “luxury” of kicking others out and bullying them?

I don’t know the numbers, but ZoS does. And if, for example, even three players leave because of the first four reasons, while only one stays for the last one, then clearly something is not right.

When ZoS released subclassing, that was the moment I had enough of all the nonsense. I didn’t stop playing only because of subclassing, but because of everything I’ve already mentioned. There is simply too much toxicity in this game and all of it comes from DPS sharing and ESO Logs. Every single case of toxicity I’ve seen in ESO has been tied to that.

Instead of adding subclassing, which strips away the very essence of Elder Scrolls, maybe ZoS should focus on removing DPS sharing and ESO Logs, since those are the real sources of toxicity in the game.
But clearly, ZoS has other plans. Unique classes, identity, fun, and joy don’t seem to be welcome anymore… but toxicity is.

Well… it is what it is.

I can give one number, my own.

As a new player I tried (random normal) dungeons multiple times. It was horrible. You queue as dps thinking there will be a tank to hold aggro and a healer to keep everyone alive. Instead you die to a bunch of trash mobs while half the group is sprinting to the end boss.

I switched to what was, in my mind, a healer build. You know, resto staff and slotting healing skills. I got mocked and sometimes kicked for doing that instead of going pure damage.

And don't even think about talking to the quest giver, that will definitely get the rest of the group irritated.

I didn't quit the game over it, but I did start to play it as a single player game, ignoring any group based content. The moment I started dungeons again was much, much later, once I was good enough to outrun the speedrunners and live.

I still don't think that dps sharing and logs are the core issue (see my previous post). But I definitely agree that the game generates toxicity by design.

Asikoo

loosej wrote: »

I can give one number, my own.

As a new player I tried (random normal) dungeons multiple times. It was horrible. You queue as dps thinking there will be a tank to hold aggro and a healer to keep everyone alive. Instead you die to a bunch of trash mobs while half the group is sprinting to the end boss.

I switched to what was, in my mind, a healer build. You know, resto staff and slotting healing skills. I got mocked and sometimes kicked for doing that instead of going pure damage.

And don't even think about talking to the quest giver, that will definitely get the rest of the group irritated.

I didn't quit the game over it, but I did start to play it as a single player game, ignoring any group based content. The moment I started dungeons again was much, much later, once I was good enough to outrun the speedrunners and live.

I still don't think that dps sharing and logs are the core issue (see my previous post). But I definitely agree that the game generates toxicity by design.

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

If you play solo, ESO feels amazing at first. But once you know the basics, you realize that outside of gear grinding there’s no real challenge left in the story content. It becomes easy, repetitive, and eventually boring.

You don’t believe DPS sharing and logs are at the core of the problem… well, give it time. Once you push further into the game, you’ll understand exactly what I mean.

loosej

Asikoo wrote: »

loosej wrote: »

I can give one number, my own.

As a new player I tried (random normal) dungeons multiple times. It was horrible. You queue as dps thinking there will be a tank to hold aggro and a healer to keep everyone alive. Instead you die to a bunch of trash mobs while half the group is sprinting to the end boss.

I switched to what was, in my mind, a healer build. You know, resto staff and slotting healing skills. I got mocked and sometimes kicked for doing that instead of going pure damage.

And don't even think about talking to the quest giver, that will definitely get the rest of the group irritated.

I didn't quit the game over it, but I did start to play it as a single player game, ignoring any group based content. The moment I started dungeons again was much, much later, once I was good enough to outrun the speedrunners and live.

I still don't think that dps sharing and logs are the core issue (see my previous post). But I definitely agree that the game generates toxicity by design.

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

If you play solo, ESO feels amazing at first. But once you know the basics, you realize that outside of gear grinding there’s no real challenge left in the story content. It becomes easy, repetitive, and eventually boring.

You don’t believe DPS sharing and logs are at the core of the problem… well, give it time. Once you push further into the game, you’ll understand exactly what I mean.

I've given it plenty of time (CP2700), but thanks for saying welcome.

My previous post explains why I don't think they're the core issue, and why removing them wouldn't solve anything in my opinion. But I can agree that they reinforce the problem.

aetherix8

Asikoo wrote: »

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

A few months ago I was running daily rnd vet for class scraps on my fake tank. There was this one run that I still wonder what the hell happened on that day.

I landed in vet MoS with a vague memory of having completed it once ages ago. DDs were bit low CP but fast they proved to be high dps so I went along.

That didn’t need long to turn bad. After getting one-shot by a boss I asked about mechs in chat coz “it’s been ages since I run this dungeon”. “You have to follow the light” was the reply. Ok ty.
We made it to the final boss and the DDs set the HM. I was fairly skeptical but what the hell. I was one shot by smth and we wiped. DDs went for the HM again. I just looked at them like “r u in ur right mind?”, but let’s try. I got one shot and lying dead till we wiped again. Then the DDs went for the HM again. I’ve lost my count of how many times we wiped. Most of the time I was just dead. They kept setting HM. After what felt like eternity, we cleared the dungeon and I got my achievement. We stood for a while just looking at one another then said “gg tyvm” and disbanded.
Nobody at no point mocked me. Also, this wasn’t the first time DDs insisted on HM in a vet dlc, but I never before had so stubborn DDs that would keep trying HM even though it seemed hopeless.

This is to say, that I disagree that you can never make a mistake in a dungeon, or that if you’re new everyone will mock and kick you.

frogthroat

aetherix8 wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

A few months ago I was running daily rnd vet for class scraps on my fake tank. There was this one run that I still wonder what the hell happened on that day.

I landed in vet MoS with a vague memory of having completed it once ages ago. DDs were bit low CP but fast they proved to be high dps so I went along.

That didn’t need long to turn bad. After getting one-shot by a boss I asked about mechs in chat coz “it’s been ages since I run this dungeon”. “You have to follow the light” was the reply. Ok ty.
We made it to the final boss and the DDs set the HM. I was fairly skeptical but what the hell. I was one shot by smth and we wiped. DDs went for the HM again. I just looked at them like “r u in ur right mind?”, but let’s try. I got one shot and lying dead till we wiped again. Then the DDs went for the HM again. I’ve lost my count of how many times we wiped. Most of the time I was just dead. They kept setting HM. After what felt like eternity, we cleared the dungeon and I got my achievement. We stood for a while just looking at one another then said “gg tyvm” and disbanded.
Nobody at no point mocked me. Also, this wasn’t the first time DDs insisted on HM in a vet dlc, but I never before had so stubborn DDs that would keep trying HM even though it seemed hopeless.

This is to say, that I disagree that you can never make a mistake in a dungeon, or that if you’re new everyone will mock and kick you.

Your fake tank?


Anyway, this is a good reminder that although there are some unsavoury players, that is not every time. Or not necessarily even the norm. Great that the DDs kept on trying. Perseverance is sometimes needed in order to clear the more difficult content.

HM clears sometimes take multiple tries.

Daoin

aetherix8 wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

A few months ago I was running daily rnd vet for class scraps on my fake tank. There was this one run that I still wonder what the hell happened on that day.

I landed in vet MoS with a vague memory of having completed it once ages ago. DDs were bit low CP but fast they proved to be high dps so I went along.

That didn’t need long to turn bad. After getting one-shot by a boss I asked about mechs in chat coz “it’s been ages since I run this dungeon”. “You have to follow the light” was the reply. Ok ty.
We made it to the final boss and the DDs set the HM. I was fairly skeptical but what the hell. I was one shot by smth and we wiped. DDs went for the HM again. I just looked at them like “r u in ur right mind?”, but let’s try. I got one shot and lying dead till we wiped again. Then the DDs went for the HM again. I’ve lost my count of how many times we wiped. Most of the time I was just dead. They kept setting HM. After what felt like eternity, we cleared the dungeon and I got my achievement. We stood for a while just looking at one another then said “gg tyvm” and disbanded.
Nobody at no point mocked me. Also, this wasn’t the first time DDs insisted on HM in a vet dlc, but I never before had so stubborn DDs that would keep trying HM even though it seemed hopeless.

This is to say, that I disagree that you can never make a mistake in a dungeon, or that if you’re new everyone will mock and kick you.

there is desperation and theres real desperate desperation, starting the post with ooh the other day was vet dungeon hopping on my fake tank and we did a vet MoS HM stinks of desperation and attentin seeking. if you ask me they kept you in group just to prove to you the 3 of them alone could do it without having to resort to kicking but yes they sound nice a nice bunch. or it was a steamer, i have seen streamers do that before (i mean join a group as fake tank) without telling the group they are streamers on vet dungeons and just press ahead, then bringing it into a griefing post is just bad taste anyway, there basically only ever one time a vote kick happens and i smile about it is when its a fake tank or healer acting alone and not part of a premade griefing squad. but feel free to swerve down the fake dd topic now i have mentioned the other 2 like countless in my defence posts for bad play have done in the past
so far all you have told me is you have never really been great at tanking and have no idea what a good healer brings to a group
i can just assume you have not been around a while due to fake role practices and maybe something went south, but just to chip in heres my personal advice, forget the achievment (already admitted you did not do much in the way of obtaining it) play real tank/real healer/2 dd's/no expectations and then get good this can do nothing except help with what the OP is saying in the end
it is also polite for the group to agree on a whole if they are going to attemp HM or not before activating it and leaving or asking to be replaced instead of becoming fish food is an option still available at that point
phew im getting chills as i write thinking about how many groups you may or may not have trashed in the past on a fake role for that one achievement
now all you need do though is find that same group to help you kill all the mobs (known as trash by most in-game) in there in ordert o obtain the speedrun and no death achievement, for me a HM could never be a HM if i did not go and try to get no death and speedrun first (with a random group mostly), happens though thats just how i play myself i guess

scrappy1342

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Barto92 wrote: »

Any solution is better than current abussive mess and you don't need to disregard suggested solutions.

Also to your information - other good games literally don't have this problem and no one is 'trolling it'. False dismisal are punishable acts. Screen from XIV.

Can you come up with a better idea maybe?

There's no option there for "does not follow mechs" or "blindly hits boss without rezzing so there will be an inevitable wipe when he dies. Again."

Not being a team player or something to that effect would work as an option.

because not knowing mechanics is not a kickable offense in other games. you aren't expected to know it all the first time you go in. if there are other players there who know the mechanics, they should be able to explain them to new ppl. if no one knows them, generally you work it out as a team or someone can look it up if need be.

if someone is not following mechanics ON PURPOSE, then that falls under harassment.

Daoin

frogthroat wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

A few months ago I was running daily rnd vet for class scraps on my fake tank. There was this one run that I still wonder what the hell happened on that day.

I landed in vet MoS with a vague memory of having completed it once ages ago. DDs were bit low CP but fast they proved to be high dps so I went along.

That didn’t need long to turn bad. After getting one-shot by a boss I asked about mechs in chat coz “it’s been ages since I run this dungeon”. “You have to follow the light” was the reply. Ok ty.
We made it to the final boss and the DDs set the HM. I was fairly skeptical but what the hell. I was one shot by smth and we wiped. DDs went for the HM again. I just looked at them like “r u in ur right mind?”, but let’s try. I got one shot and lying dead till we wiped again. Then the DDs went for the HM again. I’ve lost my count of how many times we wiped. Most of the time I was just dead. They kept setting HM. After what felt like eternity, we cleared the dungeon and I got my achievement. We stood for a while just looking at one another then said “gg tyvm” and disbanded.
Nobody at no point mocked me. Also, this wasn’t the first time DDs insisted on HM in a vet dlc, but I never before had so stubborn DDs that would keep trying HM even though it seemed hopeless.

This is to say, that I disagree that you can never make a mistake in a dungeon, or that if you’re new everyone will mock and kick you.

Your fake tank?


Anyway, this is a good reminder that although there are some unsavoury players, that is not every time. Or not necessarily even the norm. Great that the DDs kept on trying. Perseverance is sometimes needed in order to clear the more difficult content.

HM clears sometimes take multiple tries.

thats true sometimes they do take multiple tries, on the test server (cough, tweak and practice server), then day one of release after at live, then after that anywhere from multiple weeks to multiple years for the rest of the players
the only reason i am not dropping this post is because OP has a good point being made, but never would have likked back from earlier had one of your replies to waiting queue just make me laugh, but yeah i dont mind playing dumb either on forum sometimes, by the way i left that group when it finally ticked instead of causing a stink around players i did not want to group with. logged out chilled logged in later decided to play another role after all cant remember how long queue was
all thats left is to convince the world that when someone asked for a kick in the past to avoid a penalty for whatever reason they had they were not committing a mortal sin, if we ever get past the stage of ' i report you for not playing with us' stage from groups, sometimes worse. either way, sometimes without even looking at thier own guild rosters in the past, you know the ones ? the times we laugh just because we know that if those 'top class' players just tried to understand random groups in content they can do easily and understand sometimes others knoow who thay are and know they think are just well...better than they behave in randoms. i was suprised to see one or twoo less players in less random groups now though the way things are turning out with that and subclassing too, and im like holy moly i used to be in that guild and in voice chat guy acted like he could handle anything, i though he was cool, before wasting time printing those facts out to a 4 person group to in out own way just incase other facts to make things clear about not being involved on another level , thank goodness i always went in muted in the end after deciding for years voice chat sucks so im not going at all
the thing is though randoms used to be atleast 50% good and had they contiued playing quietly or politely nobody would have cared when solo in queue but they run off back to thier cliques to fight the wrong fight in thier own way oor another day, phew thank goodness for subclassing sometimes now, just sometimes though, just sometimes
but i have to be honest too even if we could say some have the rights to act the way they do because of whatever reason, then i am guilty of alot too having made sure theres no vet player in the game i would not lay the iron wording down too should things start to look fishy, without fear of any severe consequence and that was never good, took a few suspetions and admit to that, probably less than i should have had my behaviour not been justifiable somehow in the end
groups can just turn into bullying madness and griefing like what op is saying and half the time should i have not took my own screenshots( some never sent) of the full conversations it could have been me instead getting thrown out at the end of it all. then theres the follow on pm to esculate when they want. today i usually also go into randoms in offline mode so i cannot get pm's just incase. griefers and bullies always got away with what they do and everyone knows it but sometimes players have to change to adapt in ways they dont want to, like offline mode in random groups ect or the last time a person ever seen online the lasr words where so insult taken from a random group about them playing thier own way

Tandor

Raanbury wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Raanbury wrote: »

ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »

I wanted to let @alakeyfox know that we have seen the post and are currently investigating the ticket you brought up. Everyone, please do not bring up side subjects or anything else off topic. We want to hear constructive feedback about the topic at hand.

What I don't understand is why this wasn't investigated when they raised the two initial tickets. Why now, after creating a forum post, is the matter being investigated? Were the initial tickets raised by OP even reviewed by a human or were they screened out by AI?

There's no reason to make everything need review by a human, it's a drain on ZOS resources that takes away from development of new content, server upgrades/performance, time for balancing, etc.

And having the moderation be too sensitive means people getting banned nonstop for nonsense, the worst scenario.

I'd rather there be a few missed reports of bad/actionable behavior, than everything under the sun being actioned upon.

Quite frankly I disagree.

We're dealing with humans and that means humans should review accordingly. Furthermore, I fail to see how customer service/moderation in anyway impacts game content, server maintenance and balancing. Unless I've missed something these are two completely different teams.

Yes they are, but they're funded from the same overall budget and if more is spent on customer service/moderation then that leaves less to be spent on game content, server maintenance and balancing etc.

aetherix8

Daoin wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

A few months ago I was running daily rnd vet for class scraps on my fake tank. There was this one run that I still wonder what the hell happened on that day.

I landed in vet MoS with a vague memory of having completed it once ages ago. DDs were bit low CP but fast they proved to be high dps so I went along.

That didn’t need long to turn bad. After getting one-shot by a boss I asked about mechs in chat coz “it’s been ages since I run this dungeon”. “You have to follow the light” was the reply. Ok ty.
We made it to the final boss and the DDs set the HM. I was fairly skeptical but what the hell. I was one shot by smth and we wiped. DDs went for the HM again. I just looked at them like “r u in ur right mind?”, but let’s try. I got one shot and lying dead till we wiped again. Then the DDs went for the HM again. I’ve lost my count of how many times we wiped. Most of the time I was just dead. They kept setting HM. After what felt like eternity, we cleared the dungeon and I got my achievement. We stood for a while just looking at one another then said “gg tyvm” and disbanded.
Nobody at no point mocked me. Also, this wasn’t the first time DDs insisted on HM in a vet dlc, but I never before had so stubborn DDs that would keep trying HM even though it seemed hopeless.

This is to say, that I disagree that you can never make a mistake in a dungeon, or that if you’re new everyone will mock and kick you.

there is desperation and theres real desperate desperation, starting the post with ooh the other day was vet dungeon hopping on my fake tank and we did a vet MoS HM stinks of desperation and attentin seeking. if you ask me they kept you in group just to prove to you the 3 of them alone could do it without having to resort to kicking but yes they sound nice a nice bunch. or it was a steamer, i have seen streamers do that before (i mean join a group as fake tank) without telling the group they are streamers on vet dungeons and just press ahead, then bringing it into a griefing post is just bad taste anyway, there basically only ever one time a vote kick happens and i smile about it is when its a fake tank or healer acting alone and not part of a premade griefing squad. but feel free to swerve down the fake dd topic now i have mentioned the other 2 like countless in my defence posts for bad play have done in the past
so far all you have told me is you have never really been great at tanking and have no idea what a good healer brings to a group
i can just assume you have not been around a while due to fake role practices and maybe something went south, but just to chip in heres my personal advice, forget the achievment (already admitted you did not do much in the way of obtaining it) play real tank/real healer/2 dd's/no expectations and then get good this can do nothing except help with what the OP is saying in the end
it is also polite for the group to agree on a whole if they are going to attemp HM or not before activating it and leaving or asking to be replaced instead of becoming fish food is an option still available at that point
phew im getting chills as i write thinking about how many groups you may or may not have trashed in the past on a fake role for that one achievement
now all you need do though is find that same group to help you kill all the mobs (known as trash by most in-game) in there in ordert o obtain the speedrun and no death achievement, for me a HM could never be a HM if i did not go and try to get no death and speedrun first (with a random group mostly), happens though thats just how i play myself i guess

That was not the most glorious day at work, but your post made me smile. Thanks!

May I suggest drinking more coffee tea before replying to posts?

Daoin

aetherix8 wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

A few months ago I was running daily rnd vet for class scraps on my fake tank. There was this one run that I still wonder what the hell happened on that day.

I landed in vet MoS with a vague memory of having completed it once ages ago. DDs were bit low CP but fast they proved to be high dps so I went along.

That didn’t need long to turn bad. After getting one-shot by a boss I asked about mechs in chat coz “it’s been ages since I run this dungeon”. “You have to follow the light” was the reply. Ok ty.
We made it to the final boss and the DDs set the HM. I was fairly skeptical but what the hell. I was one shot by smth and we wiped. DDs went for the HM again. I just looked at them like “r u in ur right mind?”, but let’s try. I got one shot and lying dead till we wiped again. Then the DDs went for the HM again. I’ve lost my count of how many times we wiped. Most of the time I was just dead. They kept setting HM. After what felt like eternity, we cleared the dungeon and I got my achievement. We stood for a while just looking at one another then said “gg tyvm” and disbanded.
Nobody at no point mocked me. Also, this wasn’t the first time DDs insisted on HM in a vet dlc, but I never before had so stubborn DDs that would keep trying HM even though it seemed hopeless.

This is to say, that I disagree that you can never make a mistake in a dungeon, or that if you’re new everyone will mock and kick you.

there is desperation and theres real desperate desperation, starting the post with ooh the other day was vet dungeon hopping on my fake tank and we did a vet MoS HM stinks of desperation and attentin seeking. if you ask me they kept you in group just to prove to you the 3 of them alone could do it without having to resort to kicking but yes they sound nice a nice bunch. or it was a steamer, i have seen streamers do that before (i mean join a group as fake tank) without telling the group they are streamers on vet dungeons and just press ahead, then bringing it into a griefing post is just bad taste anyway, there basically only ever one time a vote kick happens and i smile about it is when its a fake tank or healer acting alone and not part of a premade griefing squad. but feel free to swerve down the fake dd topic now i have mentioned the other 2 like countless in my defence posts for bad play have done in the past
so far all you have told me is you have never really been great at tanking and have no idea what a good healer brings to a group
i can just assume you have not been around a while due to fake role practices and maybe something went south, but just to chip in heres my personal advice, forget the achievment (already admitted you did not do much in the way of obtaining it) play real tank/real healer/2 dd's/no expectations and then get good this can do nothing except help with what the OP is saying in the end
it is also polite for the group to agree on a whole if they are going to attemp HM or not before activating it and leaving or asking to be replaced instead of becoming fish food is an option still available at that point
phew im getting chills as i write thinking about how many groups you may or may not have trashed in the past on a fake role for that one achievement
now all you need do though is find that same group to help you kill all the mobs (known as trash by most in-game) in there in ordert o obtain the speedrun and no death achievement, for me a HM could never be a HM if i did not go and try to get no death and speedrun first (with a random group mostly), happens though thats just how i play myself i guess

That was not the most glorious day at work, but your post made me smile. Thanks!

May I suggest drinking more coffee before replying to posts?

no, and dont expect to explain why either, may i suggest less people log in drunk or drink less coffee if they cannot handle it ? that way whenever i try to make a peaceful raid in finder wiith the underheading without a request to link achievement Be Polite NO Dinking/No Brawling No 100% clear guarantee, rather than - No HA 100k Dps that - knoow mechs or kick that others use you can be among the first to take notice that does not try to take the raid over with bullying and griefing.
i mean i dont know you personally but i can only hope you are not logging in wrecked after a hard days work, joining on purpose just to say you cant do that

Ishtarknows

Asikoo wrote: »

So, did I reply to both of your questions? Yes.[/i]

No, not really.

Why should others carry your shortfall in veteran DLC dungeons and also be considered toxic if they either don't want to do so, or are struggling to make up for the difference and would rather have someone who will actually do 50% of the required DD job

The second part of my question is the important bit. It gives insight into why lower DPS might be unwanted. It can make the rest of the groups life much harder, especially supports. If someone in your group is making your life more difficult (and possibly affecting your ability to complete content) why's it toxic to want to change that? Why does the reason matter more if it's because of lower DPS?

scrappy1342 wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Barto92 wrote: »

Any solution is better than current abussive mess and you don't need to disregard suggested solutions.

Also to your information - other good games literally don't have this problem and no one is 'trolling it'. False dismisal are punishable acts. Screen from XIV.

Can you come up with a better idea maybe?

There's no option there for "does not follow mechs" or "blindly hits boss without rezzing so there will be an inevitable wipe when he dies. Again."

Not being a team player or something to that effect would work as an option.

because not knowing mechanics is not a kickable offense in other games. you aren't expected to know it all the first time you go in. if there are other players there who know the mechanics, they should be able to explain them to new ppl. if no one knows them, generally you work it out as a team or someone can look it up if need be.

if someone is not following mechanics ON PURPOSE, then that falls under harassment.

I meant someone who refuses to follow mechs after being told them in chat (presumably after making the same error over and over previously). Deliberately not following or being demonstrably unable to is not something I'd be able to determine myself but the results are the same.

aetherix8

frogthroat wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

A few months ago I was running daily rnd vet for class scraps on my fake tank. There was this one run that I still wonder what the hell happened on that day.

I landed in vet MoS with a vague memory of having completed it once ages ago. DDs were bit low CP but fast they proved to be high dps so I went along.

That didn’t need long to turn bad. After getting one-shot by a boss I asked about mechs in chat coz “it’s been ages since I run this dungeon”. “You have to follow the light” was the reply. Ok ty.
We made it to the final boss and the DDs set the HM. I was fairly skeptical but what the hell. I was one shot by smth and we wiped. DDs went for the HM again. I just looked at them like “r u in ur right mind?”, but let’s try. I got one shot and lying dead till we wiped again. Then the DDs went for the HM again. I’ve lost my count of how many times we wiped. Most of the time I was just dead. They kept setting HM. After what felt like eternity, we cleared the dungeon and I got my achievement. We stood for a while just looking at one another then said “gg tyvm” and disbanded.
Nobody at no point mocked me. Also, this wasn’t the first time DDs insisted on HM in a vet dlc, but I never before had so stubborn DDs that would keep trying HM even though it seemed hopeless.

This is to say, that I disagree that you can never make a mistake in a dungeon, or that if you’re new everyone will mock and kick you.

Your fake tank?


Anyway, this is a good reminder that although there are some unsavoury players, that is not every time. Or not necessarily even the norm. Great that the DDs kept on trying. Perseverance is sometimes needed in order to clear the more difficult content.

HM clears sometimes take multiple tries.

Yes, my fake tank. As I said before, when I need a rnd vet I queue with my main, who was originally supposed to be dps, but that failed. I didn’t adjust my main to tanking besides equipping taunt, chains and sets that buff group dps (and S+B ofc).

I’m yet to create a proper tank. I keep calling my main “fake” to remind myself to never try tanking difficult content with her, like trials. Normally when I land in dlc dungeons, I quit and queue again cuz my main isn’t strong enough, and I prefer to avoid wasting everybody else’s time.

Yes, HM may take several tries. But when your tank admits not knowing mechs, forgets to block sometimes and then is mostly lying dead on the last boss, would you keep insisting on HM wipe after wipe after wipe after wipe? This keeps me puzzled. And that’s why I tell this story, because in this context I would rather expect lots of toxicity and vote kick rather than the unwavering faith that our pug can get it done no matter what.

Daoin

Bro, you should know by now as soon someone activates HM and you did not agree to it theres 2 choices leave or stay. earlier i was going to ask if you generally were calling yourself fake because you had much to learn still but were a real tank but thought i would drop it there. in the end fake tank is fake tank and there should be no sympathy for the devil or his advocate

Raanbury

Tandor wrote: »

Raanbury wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Raanbury wrote: »

ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »

I wanted to let @alakeyfox know that we have seen the post and are currently investigating the ticket you brought up. Everyone, please do not bring up side subjects or anything else off topic. We want to hear constructive feedback about the topic at hand.

What I don't understand is why this wasn't investigated when they raised the two initial tickets. Why now, after creating a forum post, is the matter being investigated? Were the initial tickets raised by OP even reviewed by a human or were they screened out by AI?

There's no reason to make everything need review by a human, it's a drain on ZOS resources that takes away from development of new content, server upgrades/performance, time for balancing, etc.

And having the moderation be too sensitive means people getting banned nonstop for nonsense, the worst scenario.

I'd rather there be a few missed reports of bad/actionable behavior, than everything under the sun being actioned upon.

Quite frankly I disagree.

We're dealing with humans and that means humans should review accordingly. Furthermore, I fail to see how customer service/moderation in anyway impacts game content, server maintenance and balancing. Unless I've missed something these are two completely different teams.

Yes they are, but they're funded from the same overall budget and if more is spent on customer service/moderation then that leaves less to be spent on game content, server maintenance and balancing etc.

Do you have an official source for that?

aetherix8

Daoin wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

A few months ago I was running daily rnd vet for class scraps on my fake tank. There was this one run that I still wonder what the hell happened on that day.

I landed in vet MoS with a vague memory of having completed it once ages ago. DDs were bit low CP but fast they proved to be high dps so I went along.

That didn’t need long to turn bad. After getting one-shot by a boss I asked about mechs in chat coz “it’s been ages since I run this dungeon”. “You have to follow the light” was the reply. Ok ty.
We made it to the final boss and the DDs set the HM. I was fairly skeptical but what the hell. I was one shot by smth and we wiped. DDs went for the HM again. I just looked at them like “r u in ur right mind?”, but let’s try. I got one shot and lying dead till we wiped again. Then the DDs went for the HM again. I’ve lost my count of how many times we wiped. Most of the time I was just dead. They kept setting HM. After what felt like eternity, we cleared the dungeon and I got my achievement. We stood for a while just looking at one another then said “gg tyvm” and disbanded.
Nobody at no point mocked me. Also, this wasn’t the first time DDs insisted on HM in a vet dlc, but I never before had so stubborn DDs that would keep trying HM even though it seemed hopeless.

This is to say, that I disagree that you can never make a mistake in a dungeon, or that if you’re new everyone will mock and kick you.

there is desperation and theres real desperate desperation, starting the post with ooh the other day was vet dungeon hopping on my fake tank and we did a vet MoS HM stinks of desperation and attentin seeking. if you ask me they kept you in group just to prove to you the 3 of them alone could do it without having to resort to kicking but yes they sound nice a nice bunch. or it was a steamer, i have seen streamers do that before (i mean join a group as fake tank) without telling the group they are streamers on vet dungeons and just press ahead, then bringing it into a griefing post is just bad taste anyway, there basically only ever one time a vote kick happens and i smile about it is when its a fake tank or healer acting alone and not part of a premade griefing squad. but feel free to swerve down the fake dd topic now i have mentioned the other 2 like countless in my defence posts for bad play have done in the past
so far all you have told me is you have never really been great at tanking and have no idea what a good healer brings to a group
i can just assume you have not been around a while due to fake role practices and maybe something went south, but just to chip in heres my personal advice, forget the achievment (already admitted you did not do much in the way of obtaining it) play real tank/real healer/2 dd's/no expectations and then get good this can do nothing except help with what the OP is saying in the end
it is also polite for the group to agree on a whole if they are going to attemp HM or not before activating it and leaving or asking to be replaced instead of becoming fish food is an option still available at that point
phew im getting chills as i write thinking about how many groups you may or may not have trashed in the past on a fake role for that one achievement
now all you need do though is find that same group to help you kill all the mobs (known as trash by most in-game) in there in ordert o obtain the speedrun and no death achievement, for me a HM could never be a HM if i did not go and try to get no death and speedrun first (with a random group mostly), happens though thats just how i play myself i guess

That was not the most glorious day at work, but your post made me smile. Thanks!

May I suggest drinking more coffee before replying to posts?

no, and dont expect to explain why either, may i suggest less people log in drunk or drink less coffee if they cannot handle it ? that way whenever i try to make a peaceful raid in finder wiith the underheading without a request to link achievement Be Polite NO Dinking/No Brawling No 100% clear guarantee, rather than - No HA 100k Dps that - knoow mechs or kick that others use you can be among the first to take notice that does not try to take the raid over with bullying and griefing.
i mean i dont know you personally but i can only hope you are not logging in wrecked after a hard days work, joining on purpose just to say you cant do that

I can't handle my day if I don't get at least 5 coffees in the morning.

Anyways, just to reassure you, I run dungeons very rarely and preferably before lunch coz that's when I get most speed runners in my groups. I've had this scraps farming moment, but before that I was mostly in Ravenwatch and then I quit the game for some months, so my tank was very rusty too. And I will always hang around for HM attempt coz curiosity.

Daoin

aetherix8 wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

A few months ago I was running daily rnd vet for class scraps on my fake tank. There was this one run that I still wonder what the hell happened on that day.

I landed in vet MoS with a vague memory of having completed it once ages ago. DDs were bit low CP but fast they proved to be high dps so I went along.

That didn’t need long to turn bad. After getting one-shot by a boss I asked about mechs in chat coz “it’s been ages since I run this dungeon”. “You have to follow the light” was the reply. Ok ty.
We made it to the final boss and the DDs set the HM. I was fairly skeptical but what the hell. I was one shot by smth and we wiped. DDs went for the HM again. I just looked at them like “r u in ur right mind?”, but let’s try. I got one shot and lying dead till we wiped again. Then the DDs went for the HM again. I’ve lost my count of how many times we wiped. Most of the time I was just dead. They kept setting HM. After what felt like eternity, we cleared the dungeon and I got my achievement. We stood for a while just looking at one another then said “gg tyvm” and disbanded.
Nobody at no point mocked me. Also, this wasn’t the first time DDs insisted on HM in a vet dlc, but I never before had so stubborn DDs that would keep trying HM even though it seemed hopeless.

This is to say, that I disagree that you can never make a mistake in a dungeon, or that if you’re new everyone will mock and kick you.

there is desperation and theres real desperate desperation, starting the post with ooh the other day was vet dungeon hopping on my fake tank and we did a vet MoS HM stinks of desperation and attentin seeking. if you ask me they kept you in group just to prove to you the 3 of them alone could do it without having to resort to kicking but yes they sound nice a nice bunch. or it was a steamer, i have seen streamers do that before (i mean join a group as fake tank) without telling the group they are streamers on vet dungeons and just press ahead, then bringing it into a griefing post is just bad taste anyway, there basically only ever one time a vote kick happens and i smile about it is when its a fake tank or healer acting alone and not part of a premade griefing squad. but feel free to swerve down the fake dd topic now i have mentioned the other 2 like countless in my defence posts for bad play have done in the past
so far all you have told me is you have never really been great at tanking and have no idea what a good healer brings to a group
i can just assume you have not been around a while due to fake role practices and maybe something went south, but just to chip in heres my personal advice, forget the achievment (already admitted you did not do much in the way of obtaining it) play real tank/real healer/2 dd's/no expectations and then get good this can do nothing except help with what the OP is saying in the end
it is also polite for the group to agree on a whole if they are going to attemp HM or not before activating it and leaving or asking to be replaced instead of becoming fish food is an option still available at that point
phew im getting chills as i write thinking about how many groups you may or may not have trashed in the past on a fake role for that one achievement
now all you need do though is find that same group to help you kill all the mobs (known as trash by most in-game) in there in ordert o obtain the speedrun and no death achievement, for me a HM could never be a HM if i did not go and try to get no death and speedrun first (with a random group mostly), happens though thats just how i play myself i guess

That was not the most glorious day at work, but your post made me smile. Thanks!

May I suggest drinking more coffee before replying to posts?

no, and dont expect to explain why either, may i suggest less people log in drunk or drink less coffee if they cannot handle it ? that way whenever i try to make a peaceful raid in finder wiith the underheading without a request to link achievement Be Polite NO Dinking/No Brawling No 100% clear guarantee, rather than - No HA 100k Dps that - knoow mechs or kick that others use you can be among the first to take notice that does not try to take the raid over with bullying and griefing.
i mean i dont know you personally but i can only hope you are not logging in wrecked after a hard days work, joining on purpose just to say you cant do that

I can't handle my day if I don't get at least 5 coffees in the morning.

Anyways, just to reassure you, I run dungeons very rarely and preferably before lunch coz that's when I get most speed runners in my groups. I've had this scraps farming moment, but before that I was mostly in Ravenwatch and then I quit the game for some months, so my tank was very rusty too. And I will always hang around for HM attempt coz curiosity.

i drink tea

aetherix8

Daoin wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

A few months ago I was running daily rnd vet for class scraps on my fake tank. There was this one run that I still wonder what the hell happened on that day.

I landed in vet MoS with a vague memory of having completed it once ages ago. DDs were bit low CP but fast they proved to be high dps so I went along.

That didn’t need long to turn bad. After getting one-shot by a boss I asked about mechs in chat coz “it’s been ages since I run this dungeon”. “You have to follow the light” was the reply. Ok ty.
We made it to the final boss and the DDs set the HM. I was fairly skeptical but what the hell. I was one shot by smth and we wiped. DDs went for the HM again. I just looked at them like “r u in ur right mind?”, but let’s try. I got one shot and lying dead till we wiped again. Then the DDs went for the HM again. I’ve lost my count of how many times we wiped. Most of the time I was just dead. They kept setting HM. After what felt like eternity, we cleared the dungeon and I got my achievement. We stood for a while just looking at one another then said “gg tyvm” and disbanded.
Nobody at no point mocked me. Also, this wasn’t the first time DDs insisted on HM in a vet dlc, but I never before had so stubborn DDs that would keep trying HM even though it seemed hopeless.

This is to say, that I disagree that you can never make a mistake in a dungeon, or that if you’re new everyone will mock and kick you.

there is desperation and theres real desperate desperation, starting the post with ooh the other day was vet dungeon hopping on my fake tank and we did a vet MoS HM stinks of desperation and attentin seeking. if you ask me they kept you in group just to prove to you the 3 of them alone could do it without having to resort to kicking but yes they sound nice a nice bunch. or it was a steamer, i have seen streamers do that before (i mean join a group as fake tank) without telling the group they are streamers on vet dungeons and just press ahead, then bringing it into a griefing post is just bad taste anyway, there basically only ever one time a vote kick happens and i smile about it is when its a fake tank or healer acting alone and not part of a premade griefing squad. but feel free to swerve down the fake dd topic now i have mentioned the other 2 like countless in my defence posts for bad play have done in the past
so far all you have told me is you have never really been great at tanking and have no idea what a good healer brings to a group
i can just assume you have not been around a while due to fake role practices and maybe something went south, but just to chip in heres my personal advice, forget the achievment (already admitted you did not do much in the way of obtaining it) play real tank/real healer/2 dd's/no expectations and then get good this can do nothing except help with what the OP is saying in the end
it is also polite for the group to agree on a whole if they are going to attemp HM or not before activating it and leaving or asking to be replaced instead of becoming fish food is an option still available at that point
phew im getting chills as i write thinking about how many groups you may or may not have trashed in the past on a fake role for that one achievement
now all you need do though is find that same group to help you kill all the mobs (known as trash by most in-game) in there in ordert o obtain the speedrun and no death achievement, for me a HM could never be a HM if i did not go and try to get no death and speedrun first (with a random group mostly), happens though thats just how i play myself i guess

That was not the most glorious day at work, but your post made me smile. Thanks!

May I suggest drinking more coffee before replying to posts?

no, and dont expect to explain why either, may i suggest less people log in drunk or drink less coffee if they cannot handle it ? that way whenever i try to make a peaceful raid in finder wiith the underheading without a request to link achievement Be Polite NO Dinking/No Brawling No 100% clear guarantee, rather than - No HA 100k Dps that - knoow mechs or kick that others use you can be among the first to take notice that does not try to take the raid over with bullying and griefing.
i mean i dont know you personally but i can only hope you are not logging in wrecked after a hard days work, joining on purpose just to say you cant do that

I can't handle my day if I don't get at least 5 coffees in the morning.

Anyways, just to reassure you, I run dungeons very rarely and preferably before lunch coz that's when I get most speed runners in my groups. I've had this scraps farming moment, but before that I was mostly in Ravenwatch and then I quit the game for some months, so my tank was very rusty too. And I will always hang around for HM attempt coz curiosity.

i drink tea

There is little difference between theine and caffeine, unless you drink infusions.

Daoin

just tea like my grandpa before me

twisttop138

Asikoo wrote: »

loosej wrote: »

I can give one number, my own.

As a new player I tried (random normal) dungeons multiple times. It was horrible. You queue as dps thinking there will be a tank to hold aggro and a healer to keep everyone alive. Instead you die to a bunch of trash mobs while half the group is sprinting to the end boss.

I switched to what was, in my mind, a healer build. You know, resto staff and slotting healing skills. I got mocked and sometimes kicked for doing that instead of going pure damage.

And don't even think about talking to the quest giver, that will definitely get the rest of the group irritated.

I didn't quit the game over it, but I did start to play it as a single player game, ignoring any group based content. The moment I started dungeons again was much, much later, once I was good enough to outrun the speedrunners and live.

I still don't think that dps sharing and logs are the core issue (see my previous post). But I definitely agree that the game generates toxicity by design.

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

If you play solo, ESO feels amazing at first. But once you know the basics, you realize that outside of gear grinding there’s no real challenge left in the story content. It becomes easy, repetitive, and eventually boring.

You don’t believe DPS sharing and logs are at the core of the problem… well, give it time. Once you push further into the game, you’ll understand exactly what I mean.

This is just so untrue it's almost comical. I hope that people who are thinking of trying group content don't see this and think this is reality. If you read through the thread you will see many people giving the actual truth of the matter. I won't rehash everything but the gist is this.

If you join a random group anything can happen. You will not always be with people who want to play the same as you but often times you will find great people who just want to finish the dungeon. The majority of my randoms go like this. I type evening. Some might say hey! We do the dungeon and say GGs at the end.

Now if you're interested in doing veteran dungeons or trials. My advice to you would be to find a good guild. We teach vet dungeons in scheduled groups multiple times a week as well as trials. No dps requirements. Just the desire to learn.

I'm curious why someone would just show up in a random vet run, knowing nothing about it and expect the rest of the group to be happy. Now, that's not to say there is no problems. Yes people speed run. Yes there are trolls. Some people may vote to kick you or leave the group because you're not doing enough damage. That's random for you though. There's no way for Zos to police that and they shouldn't. They gave us plenty of tools to take care of it ourselves. Make a group finder group. Join a guild. Re-que and try again. Why let some bad people ruin your fun.

At the end of the day, this community is a pretty good one. I've met and even friended great people, some of whom I met in random groups. Don't let some obvious bitterness from someone with an agenda fool you into thinking different.

Daoin

here we go again dragging it out like a poll with half truths thrown in everywhere

Daoin

twisttop138 wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

loosej wrote: »

I can give one number, my own.

As a new player I tried (random normal) dungeons multiple times. It was horrible. You queue as dps thinking there will be a tank to hold aggro and a healer to keep everyone alive. Instead you die to a bunch of trash mobs while half the group is sprinting to the end boss.

I switched to what was, in my mind, a healer build. You know, resto staff and slotting healing skills. I got mocked and sometimes kicked for doing that instead of going pure damage.

And don't even think about talking to the quest giver, that will definitely get the rest of the group irritated.

I didn't quit the game over it, but I did start to play it as a single player game, ignoring any group based content. The moment I started dungeons again was much, much later, once I was good enough to outrun the speedrunners and live.

I still don't think that dps sharing and logs are the core issue (see my previous post). But I definitely agree that the game generates toxicity by design.

Well… welcome to ESO!
This is a game where you need to complete quests for skill points, but in group content you practically have to say “please” before the others let you talk to the quest giver—otherwise you’ll get ignored, mocked, or even kicked out.

It’s a game where you’ll be ridiculed no matter what role you try to play:

• A new tank? You’ll be mocked.
• A new healer? Mocked.
• A new DPS? Same story.

If you play solo, ESO feels amazing at first. But once you know the basics, you realize that outside of gear grinding there’s no real challenge left in the story content. It becomes easy, repetitive, and eventually boring.

You don’t believe DPS sharing and logs are at the core of the problem… well, give it time. Once you push further into the game, you’ll understand exactly what I mean.

This is just so untrue it's almost comical. I hope that people who are thinking of trying group content don't see this and think this is reality. If you read through the thread you will see many people giving the actual truth of the matter. I won't rehash everything but the gist is this.

If you join a random group anything can happen. You will not always be with people who want to play the same as you but often times you will find great people who just want to finish the dungeon. The majority of my randoms go like this. I type evening. Some might say hey! We do the dungeon and say GGs at the end.

Now if you're interested in doing veteran dungeons or trials. My advice to you would be to find a good guild. We teach vet dungeons in scheduled groups multiple times a week as well as trials. No dps requirements. Just the desire to learn.

I'm curious why someone would just show up in a random vet run, knowing nothing about it and expect the rest of the group to be happy. Now, that's not to say there is no problems. Yes people speed run. Yes there are trolls. Some people may vote to kick you or leave the group because you're not doing enough damage. That's random for you though. There's no way for Zos to police that and they shouldn't. They gave us plenty of tools to take care of it ourselves. Make a group finder group. Join a guild. Re-que and try again. Why let some bad people ruin your fun.

At the end of the day, this community is a pretty good one. I've met and even friended great people, some of whom I met in random groups. Don't let some obvious bitterness from someone with an agenda fool you into thinking different.

eso is what happens when you join a random group in eso, a person can be normal or they cannot, you take the anything can happen in your own pay cheques

Tandor

Raanbury wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Raanbury wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Raanbury wrote: »

ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »

I wanted to let @alakeyfox know that we have seen the post and are currently investigating the ticket you brought up. Everyone, please do not bring up side subjects or anything else off topic. We want to hear constructive feedback about the topic at hand.

What I don't understand is why this wasn't investigated when they raised the two initial tickets. Why now, after creating a forum post, is the matter being investigated? Were the initial tickets raised by OP even reviewed by a human or were they screened out by AI?

There's no reason to make everything need review by a human, it's a drain on ZOS resources that takes away from development of new content, server upgrades/performance, time for balancing, etc.

And having the moderation be too sensitive means people getting banned nonstop for nonsense, the worst scenario.

I'd rather there be a few missed reports of bad/actionable behavior, than everything under the sun being actioned upon.

Quite frankly I disagree.

We're dealing with humans and that means humans should review accordingly. Furthermore, I fail to see how customer service/moderation in anyway impacts game content, server maintenance and balancing. Unless I've missed something these are two completely different teams.

Yes they are, but they're funded from the same overall budget and if more is spent on customer service/moderation then that leaves less to be spent on game content, server maintenance and balancing etc.

Do you have an official source for that?

Why would you question it? ESO has a budget surely, and that budget has to be allocated across the different departments does it not? So how much of the budget is spent by one department has an impact on how much is left for the other departments. If you know that ZOS works differently to other companies then feel free to explain how.

Raanbury

Tandor wrote: »

Raanbury wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Raanbury wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Raanbury wrote: »

ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »

I wanted to let @alakeyfox know that we have seen the post and are currently investigating the ticket you brought up. Everyone, please do not bring up side subjects or anything else off topic. We want to hear constructive feedback about the topic at hand.

What I don't understand is why this wasn't investigated when they raised the two initial tickets. Why now, after creating a forum post, is the matter being investigated? Were the initial tickets raised by OP even reviewed by a human or were they screened out by AI?

There's no reason to make everything need review by a human, it's a drain on ZOS resources that takes away from development of new content, server upgrades/performance, time for balancing, etc.

And having the moderation be too sensitive means people getting banned nonstop for nonsense, the worst scenario.

I'd rather there be a few missed reports of bad/actionable behavior, than everything under the sun being actioned upon.

Quite frankly I disagree.

We're dealing with humans and that means humans should review accordingly. Furthermore, I fail to see how customer service/moderation in anyway impacts game content, server maintenance and balancing. Unless I've missed something these are two completely different teams.

Yes they are, but they're funded from the same overall budget and if more is spent on customer service/moderation then that leaves less to be spent on game content, server maintenance and balancing etc.

Do you have an official source for that?

Why would you question it? ESO has a budget surely, and that budget has to be allocated across the different departments does it not? So how much of the budget is spent by one department has an impact on how much is left for the other departments. If you know that ZOS works differently to other companies then feel free to explain how.

I don't know. Neither you nor me work for ZOS so cannot comment on the internal procedures for splitting said budget. As you stated all departments are funded from the same budget, I asked for the source of this information so I could read up on it. But given we're working on assumptions here, that's fine, we'll leave it at that and agree to disagree.

spartaxoxo

Tandor wrote: »

Raanbury wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Raanbury wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Raanbury wrote: »

ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »

I wanted to let @alakeyfox know that we have seen the post and are currently investigating the ticket you brought up. Everyone, please do not bring up side subjects or anything else off topic. We want to hear constructive feedback about the topic at hand.

What I don't understand is why this wasn't investigated when they raised the two initial tickets. Why now, after creating a forum post, is the matter being investigated? Were the initial tickets raised by OP even reviewed by a human or were they screened out by AI?

There's no reason to make everything need review by a human, it's a drain on ZOS resources that takes away from development of new content, server upgrades/performance, time for balancing, etc.

And having the moderation be too sensitive means people getting banned nonstop for nonsense, the worst scenario.

I'd rather there be a few missed reports of bad/actionable behavior, than everything under the sun being actioned upon.

Quite frankly I disagree.

We're dealing with humans and that means humans should review accordingly. Furthermore, I fail to see how customer service/moderation in anyway impacts game content, server maintenance and balancing. Unless I've missed something these are two completely different teams.

Yes they are, but they're funded from the same overall budget and if more is spent on customer service/moderation then that leaves less to be spent on game content, server maintenance and balancing etc.

Do you have an official source for that?

Why would you question it? ESO has a budget surely, and that budget has to be allocated across the different departments does it not? So how much of the budget is spent by one department has an impact on how much is left for the other departments. If you know that ZOS works differently to other companies then feel free to explain how.

Each department has it's own budget. And most of them have funds that are in excess of current needs so they can be flexible when needed. They aren't going to take out development funds for anything else.

frogthroat

aetherix8 wrote: »

Yes, HM may take several tries. But when your tank admits not knowing mechs, forgets to block sometimes and then is mostly lying dead on the last boss, would you keep insisting on HM wipe after wipe after wipe after wipe? This keeps me puzzled. And that’s why I tell this story, because in this context I would rather expect lots of toxicity and vote kick rather than the unwavering faith that our pug can get it done no matter what.

But you did clear it. Their faith in you was not unwarranted. And now you learned the mechs. They pushed you and now you are a better player for it.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary back and forth from this thread, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here

aetherix8

frogthroat wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

Yes, HM may take several tries. But when your tank admits not knowing mechs, forgets to block sometimes and then is mostly lying dead on the last boss, would you keep insisting on HM wipe after wipe after wipe after wipe? This keeps me puzzled. And that’s why I tell this story, because in this context I would rather expect lots of toxicity and vote kick rather than the unwavering faith that our pug can get it done no matter what.

But you did clear it. Their faith in you was not unwarranted. And now you learned the mechs. They pushed you and now you are a better player for it.

Not sure if I'm any better player now, I was just running to the light or dead most of the time. But I'm pretty sure that I will remember MoS mechs even in my next life