Cross Save / Cross Platform / Cross Play coming?

fizzybeef

SilverBride wrote: »

So we would have way more players on the same server but the same amount of trader locations for trade guilds to compete for. How would they handle this?

There are a lot trader locations not being well used. New hot spots would be created.

Are you actively searching for problems lol?

Elowen_Starveil

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Surely the main consideration is whether Microsoft consider Crossplay to be financially viable.

The game does function adequately on the 3/6 different servers. So MS would be looking at whether the rather significant time & cost that would need to be done to enable crossplay would mean increased profit - increased by a pretty decent amount to ensure that the investment was worthwhile.

And I’m not sure it would be.

I doubt Zos would work on it, if thats the case. Maybe they see some potential in it you can not see?
But if i remember correctly you also claimed the population on PS EU was fine, so im not suprised.

It’s not up to Zos, it’s up to Microsoft. They are a business and profit is the only thing that matters. See their recent actions.

And my experience of PSEU has no effect on this fact, so lovely that you tried to dismiss it because I have a different perspective on the population than you.

The recent actions have not effected the ZOS Team working on ESO opposite from they are fully focusing on ESO now.
Blackbird got canceled and they are planning to keep the game running for 30y now. So yes they are gonna invest in ESO now i guess.

Perspectives are fine as long you dont try to sell them as facts. About the population there were so many evidences and you was just like ''noup that´s not true, i seen people at deshaan'' , sort of thing

It has been stated elsewhere that the layoffs have affected the ESO team.

Keeping the game running on 3/6 servers as it has been for 10 years or so which brings MS a decent profit, is not the same as investing a quite considerable sum to bring about crossplay which is a risk and may not be as financially beneficial as hoped. That will be the key thing - it is for any business - and that will be why the cost/benefit analysis is the most important thing, not what players want. That is a fact, even if you think otherwise.

And it may be that MS consider it viable. But I’m not so sure that crossplay would increase their profits to the extent that it is a worthwhile investment.

And your evidence about populations was, like mine, anecdotal. I obviously have a very different experience in game to you.

I think crossplay actually does make sense business wise when u look at the long run, not just like “what’s it cost right now.” yeah they’d have to invest upfront but the payback comes in a bunch of ways.

first off, ppl stick around longer if they can play with their friends no matter the platform. nobody wants to be stuck on a “dead” server or locked cuz their friends are on xbox/pc/ps. more ppl staying subbed, buying crowns, all that = more $$$.

also it keeps the game from lookin empty over time. Splitting ppl across diff servers/console pops makes zones feel empty eventually, which is what kills MMOs. Crossplay makes one big healthy community = longer game life. longer life = longer cash flow.

Bigger population also means more guilds, more events, more ppl actually spending on cosmetics/houses etc. happy players spend more. simple as.

And tbh crossplay is becoming standard now. tons of games got it. not having it just makes ESO look old n out of touch, esp when MS is pushing Game Pass hard n wants ESO as a big MMO in their lineup.

So yeah, profit matters ofc, but crossplay isn’t just some “feel good” thing, it’s a long term investment that makes the game last longer, brings in more money, and keeps ESO relevant.

Also its confirmed now they are working on it. Not they are looking if its worth it - its saying they are working on it with a team

Microsoft has a "big" MMO in their lineup. They own WOW now, and "classic" alone has about 5x as many players as ESO. "Retail" has 10x. And it doesn't have crossplay. It's all PC only, and crushing it.

jaws343

amiiegee wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

amiiegee wrote: »

As stated multiple times before in the thread. They can add platform symbols to the name. Other games are doing it like this too.

Your names will be safe, im sure

What will this do to future names once crossplay goes live? Will every name, whether there is a duplicate or not, have the server initials after it?

I just find that to be immersion breaking, unless they only showed the server intitals when mousing over the character, or something like that. Or if we had a way to not show it, like we can now with titles, etc..

It wont be more immersion breaking then the alliance ranks symbols. Because its literally not more. A little icon.

And maybe thats gonna be a off toggleable option and if not im sure someone is gonna make a addon for that

Ah yes, trying to remember the platform icon (or not even knowing it if they toggle it off) of the player you are trying to report in game while the username you are typing into the report function is being used by 3 different players on 3 different platforms. I am sure that won't cause massive issues. Especially if, a player on one platform sets their user name up to mirror a player they are trying to grief on another platform.

DragonRacer

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

As Rich noted during Gamescom, crossplay is being worked on. There is a lot of work to go through because ESO was built way before crossplay was part of the industry. And there is 11yrs worth of content, systems and data to go through. The last thing we want is for systems to be heavily impacted by crossplay and have it an impact on your overall gameplay experience. So it's something we have to be extra careful about. Nothing else to report right now, but there is a team focused on crossplay.

@ZOS_Kevin - out of curiosity, what are the team's thoughts on how to handle trading guilds if we all become merged together on one or two major servers? Everything else, I can see logically functioning as it does now but on a wider scale/more instances such as Cyrodiil campaigns and Group Finder/ToT/BG queues. But there is a finite number of guild traders available which, yes, already a countless number of guilds compete for via blind bid but that's not quite the same as suddenly shoving eeeeeeverybody together with the same finite number of traders and saying "Good luck, have fun, your bids are gonna quadruple or worse."

SilverBride

fizzybeef wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

So we would have way more players on the same server but the same amount of trader locations for trade guilds to compete for. How would they handle this?

There are a lot trader locations not being well used. New hot spots would be created.

Are you actively searching for problems lol?

I am actively looking for potential problems before they become current problems, so they can be addressed now instead of when it's too late.

And I've never seen a single trader not being used on PCNA.

Finedaible

I highly doubt ESO's servers or their spaghetti engine would ever be capable of a feat such as cross-play and I haven't seen any indication of it being worked on either. Default response will always be "never say never" but that doesn't change reality.

Furthermore, I don't see why anyone would think cross-play is some magic bullet that's going to solve the game's problems. If anything cross-play is likely to introduce more bugs and performance issues. In my opinion there are far more important things to work on such as Cyrodiil performance, finishing hybridization, and untangling years of neglected systems. With Subclassing and the consequences of that, I'm sure they have an overflowing plate of higher priorities to set straight. Heck, they should have finished hybridization and revamped Provisioning/alchemy like 5 years ago.

fizzybeef

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

fizzybeef wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

So we would have way more players on the same server but the same amount of trader locations for trade guilds to compete for. How would they handle this?

There are a lot trader locations not being well used. New hot spots would be created.

Are you actively searching for problems lol?

I am actively looking for potential problems before they become current problems, so they can be addressed now instead of when it's too late.

And I've never seen a single trader not being used on PCNA.

[snip]

Thats what i mean 😬 Maybe all spots are taken but there are a lot guilds with like no sales and if these spots are taken and being better and more used, i dont see a problem. Except some guild probably dont have a monopoly anymore, wich again might bothers some people who are in these guilds, because there is competition now.

[edited to remove quote]

fizzybeef

Finedaible wrote: »

I highly doubt ESO's servers or their spaghetti engine would ever be capable of a feat such as cross-play and I haven't seen any indication of it being worked on either. Default response will always be "never say never" but that doesn't change reality.

Furthermore, I don't see why anyone would think cross-play is some magic bullet that's going to solve the game's problems. If anything cross-play is likely to introduce more bugs and performance issues. In my opinion there are far more important things to work on such as Cyrodiil performance, finishing hybridization, and untangling years of neglected systems. With Subclassing and the consequences of that, I'm sure they have an overflowing plate of higher priorities to set straight. Heck, they should have finished hybridization and revamped Provisioning/alchemy like 5 years ago.

I dont wanna be this guy but

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

As Rich noted during Gamescom, crossplay is being worked on. There is a lot of work to go through because ESO was built way before crossplay was part of the industry. And there is 11yrs worth of content, systems and data to go through. The last thing we want is for systems to be heavily impacted by crossplay and have it an impact on your overall gameplay experience. So it's something we have to be extra careful about. Nothing else to report right now, but there is a team focused on crossplay.

spartaxoxo

Cross play is something that I don't care if they do as long as it's only between consoles. PC is very different and I would not want console's economy to be ruined by such a merging. It really doesn't seem like Xbox is that different though. It would probably be fine.

SilverBride

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

[snip]

We all should be on it and address potential problems now while they can still be dealt with rather than waiting until it's implemented.
[edited to remove quote]

fizzybeef

SilverBride wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

[snip]

We all should be on it and address potential problems now while they can still be dealt with rather than waiting until it's implemented.

Are you always doing that? Adressing every potential problem wich could show up before anything is set? Nothing has been announced, lets find some problems 👍
[edited to remove quote]

katanagirl1

The thing about guild trader slots is most trading guilds want to be in the best spots. If you’re not in the capital cities, you don’t get the foot traffic and higher sales.

I’m in a donation based trading guild and I sell a lot more in Elden Root/Wayrest/Mournhold when we are there than in places like Rimmen or Rawl’ka.

The higher economy of PC would dominate those capital cities with their bids and push XBox and PS guilds out into no man’s land.

SilverBride

fizzybeef wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

[snip]

We all should be on it and address potential problems now while they can still be dealt with rather than waiting until it's implemented.

Are you always doing that? Adressing every potential problem wich could show up before anything is set? Nothing has been announced, lets find some problems 👍

No, I'm not always doing that. But for something this major that has major complications that could arise I think it's best to work these out before we are stuck with it.
[edited to remove quote]

spartaxoxo

katanagirl1 wrote: »

The thing about guild trader slots is most trading guilds want to be in the best spots. If you’re not in the capital cities, you don’t get the foot traffic and higher sales.

I’m in a donation based trading guild and I sell a lot more in Elden Root/Wayrest/Mournhold when we are there than in places like Rimmen or Rawl’ka.

The higher economy of PC would dominate those capital cities with their bids and push XBox and PS guilds out into no man’s land.

Yup absolutely. Not to mention all the relatively cheap items that PC would suddenly be able to snap up, while console players struggled with not only scarcity but our coin be devalued greatly.

The Xbox and PS economies are different too but not to that extreme.

fizzybeef

SilverBride wrote: »

fizzybeef wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

[snip]

We all should be on it and address potential problems now while they can still be dealt with rather than waiting until it's implemented.

Are you always doing that? Adressing every potential problem wich could show up before anything is set? Nothing has been announced, lets find some problems 👍

No, I'm not always doing that. But for something this major that has major complications that could arise I think it's best to work these out before we are stuck with it.

Where have you been when subclassing was discussed?
[edited to remove quote]

SilverBride

fizzybeef wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

fizzybeef wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

[snip]

We all should be on it and address potential problems now while they can still be dealt with rather than waiting until it's implemented.

Are you always doing that? Adressing every potential problem wich could show up before anything is set? Nothing has been announced, lets find some problems 👍

No, I'm not always doing that. But for something this major that has major complications that could arise I think it's best to work these out before we are stuck with it.

Where have you been when subclassing was discussed?

I have been very vocal about subclassing, both before and after its implementation. But this thread is about crossplay.
[edited to remove quote]

Elowen_Starveil

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Cross play is something that I don't care if they do as long as it's only between consoles. PC is very different and I would not want console's economy to be ruined by such a merging. It really doesn't seem like Xbox is that different though. It would probably be fine.

Economic theory is clear that inflation in an economy due to the influx of money. We're all living in the post-housing-crash and post-covid free-for-all printing which proves the point. I'm convinced that the PC economy is "ruined" (very high) because lazy crafting mods make it really easy to "print money" on the platform. I've seen that these mods are now available on console, and it's a great test of my theory. I expect the economies of the platforms will start to align. I've just looked, and prices for dreugh wax on console have fallen precipitously over the past few months. Maybe that's because of a flood of materials because of people doing more writs, and maybe this will settle down and normalize again. And maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.

DenverRalphy

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

So we would have way more players on the same server but the same amount of trader locations for trade guilds to compete for. How would they handle this?

The console players are constantly complaining that the numbers of people on their servers make it hard to get a dungeon, and almost impossible to have fun in PVP. <snip>

Do not speak for PSNA when you say console players are constantly complaining about anything remotely close to population issues.

spartaxoxo

DenverRalphy wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

So we would have way more players on the same server but the same amount of trader locations for trade guilds to compete for. How would they handle this?

The console players are constantly complaining that the numbers of people on their servers make it hard to get a dungeon, and almost impossible to have fun in PVP. <snip>

Do not speak for PSNA when you say console players are constantly complaining about anything remotely close to population issues.

DPS queue time are long on console but yeah, overall, you're definitely right. PSNA has a healthy player population as far as I can tell.

alternatelder

fizzybeef wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

I highly doubt ESO's servers or their spaghetti engine would ever be capable of a feat such as cross-play and I haven't seen any indication of it being worked on either. Default response will always be "never say never" but that doesn't change reality.

Furthermore, I don't see why anyone would think cross-play is some magic bullet that's going to solve the game's problems. If anything cross-play is likely to introduce more bugs and performance issues. In my opinion there are far more important things to work on such as Cyrodiil performance, finishing hybridization, and untangling years of neglected systems. With Subclassing and the consequences of that, I'm sure they have an overflowing plate of higher priorities to set straight. Heck, they should have finished hybridization and revamped Provisioning/alchemy like 5 years ago.

I dont wanna be this guy but

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

As Rich noted during Gamescom, crossplay is being worked on. There is a lot of work to go through because ESO was built way before crossplay was part of the industry. And there is 11yrs worth of content, systems and data to go through. The last thing we want is for systems to be heavily impacted by crossplay and have it an impact on your overall gameplay experience. So it's something we have to be extra careful about. Nothing else to report right now, but there is a team focused on crossplay.

I don't want to be the guy that keeps repeating himself, but...Kevin is forgetting that they said "we are seeing IF it can be done." That IF is the big thing being left out.

Now everyone actually is set on expecting it to be released guaranteed. There is more doubt crossplay won't actually happen. Stop getting your hopes up. Why does this thread even exist when this was repeated over and over again in the other crossplay thread, and then derailed into what it basically is now and then closed?

katanagirl1

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Cross play is something that I don't care if they do as long as it's only between consoles. PC is very different and I would not want console's economy to be ruined by such a merging. It really doesn't seem like Xbox is that different though. It would probably be fine.

Economic theory is clear that inflation in an economy due to the influx of money. We're all living in the post-housing-crash and post-covid free-for-all printing which proves the point. I'm convinced that the PC economy is "ruined" (very high) because lazy crafting mods make it really easy to "print money" on the platform. I've seen that these mods are now available on console, and it's a great test of my theory. I expect the economies of the platforms will start to align. I've just looked, and prices for dreugh wax on console have fallen precipitously over the past few months. Maybe that's because of a flood of materials because of people doing more writs, and maybe this will settle down and normalize again. And maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.

That can be a factor but you also have PC players that have had 10 years to accumulate wealth while the economy on consoles was much less favorable.

DragonRacer

katanagirl1 wrote: »

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Cross play is something that I don't care if they do as long as it's only between consoles. PC is very different and I would not want console's economy to be ruined by such a merging. It really doesn't seem like Xbox is that different though. It would probably be fine.

Economic theory is clear that inflation in an economy due to the influx of money. We're all living in the post-housing-crash and post-covid free-for-all printing which proves the point. I'm convinced that the PC economy is "ruined" (very high) because lazy crafting mods make it really easy to "print money" on the platform. I've seen that these mods are now available on console, and it's a great test of my theory. I expect the economies of the platforms will start to align. I've just looked, and prices for dreugh wax on console have fallen precipitously over the past few months. Maybe that's because of a flood of materials because of people doing more writs, and maybe this will settle down and normalize again. And maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.

That can be a factor but you also have PC players that have had 10 years to accumulate wealth while the economy on consoles was much less favorable.

Very much that. I’ve a feeling if this came to fruition, we would see all PC guilds at all or most traders. Hurray for them, so sad for console who never had a chance. But only GMs and sellers are considering that angle, it seems, given the general tone of the past page or so.

amiiegee

alternatelder wrote: »

fizzybeef wrote: »

Finedaible wrote: »

I highly doubt ESO's servers or their spaghetti engine would ever be capable of a feat such as cross-play and I haven't seen any indication of it being worked on either. Default response will always be "never say never" but that doesn't change reality.

Furthermore, I don't see why anyone would think cross-play is some magic bullet that's going to solve the game's problems. If anything cross-play is likely to introduce more bugs and performance issues. In my opinion there are far more important things to work on such as Cyrodiil performance, finishing hybridization, and untangling years of neglected systems. With Subclassing and the consequences of that, I'm sure they have an overflowing plate of higher priorities to set straight. Heck, they should have finished hybridization and revamped Provisioning/alchemy like 5 years ago.

I dont wanna be this guy but

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

As Rich noted during Gamescom, crossplay is being worked on. There is a lot of work to go through because ESO was built way before crossplay was part of the industry. And there is 11yrs worth of content, systems and data to go through. The last thing we want is for systems to be heavily impacted by crossplay and have it an impact on your overall gameplay experience. So it's something we have to be extra careful about. Nothing else to report right now, but there is a team focused on crossplay.

I don't want to be the guy that keeps repeating himself, but...Kevin is forgetting that they said "we are seeing IF it can be done." That IF is the big thing being left out.

Now everyone actually is set on expecting it to be released guaranteed. There is more doubt crossplay won't actually happen. Stop getting your hopes up. Why does this thread even exist when this was repeated over and over again in the other crossplay thread, and then derailed into what it basically is now and then closed?

Maybe thats an update and the left out is because of that.
I dont know you can speak for the company or Kevin.
The whole discussion only has been derailed by toxicness, worries and people who dont trust the devs to do it, thats the only sad thing.

amiiegee

On reddit there is a lot of discussion too but people are respectfully and not everyone thinks they are right, because we simply dont know anything yet.

I wish the discussion tone on this forum would be more like this too.

Overall people are looking forward to this but also discussing concerns, how it should be in a community.




the upvote rate speaks for itsself. People want the feature. Zos are working on it, for the rest trust the progress and have some faith in the deav team who brought us here overr all these years.

SilverBride

Players have been discussing their concerns, which is what should happen when major changes are being suggested or proposed. The pros and cons both have to be taken into consideration.

Discussing concerns is not a lack of faith in the development team. But we need to be perfectly clear in what we are suggesting and what benefit we want it to bring. Things are not always implemented the way we imagined so being clear and specific is of utmost importance.

Æthërnüm

it won't save this game, it's doomed, since zos chose "casual" audience as their head audience. Casuals do not play games, casual killing time and leaving from it. No actual fans, no actual stable players.

Whole direction of ZOS for last 7 years just freaked up 11 years long story of this game and it's glory.

freespirit

Actually I am interested in the whole guild trader issue, on PC-EU we sometimes run the map just after swap happens due to losing all bids, it is pretty rare to luck in on an empty spot!

What interests me more is the price comparison between PC and Console for the actual bids..... I suspect GM's on PC are used to paying far, far higher for their spots, this could potentially destroy many Console trade guilds.

I know backwoods locations on PC-EU can cost less than 500k per week if you are lucky but big cities are in the multiple millions(some are eyewatering) price range, can someone from consoles confirm if they are used to similar bids?

I am genuinely curious how big the difference is.

DragonRacer

"trust the progress and have some faith in the deav team who brought us here overr all these years."

I have absolute respect for the dev team, but it's a bit condescending to talk down to folks expressing legitimate concerns in advance in the hopes they will be taken in consideration before changes occur.

I mean, all console trading guilds literally got burned badly by ZOS randomly taking away the "sort by listing date" function from guild stores with no warning and no patch notes about it - intentionally - a week before the largest trading event of the year (Zeal of Zenithar), in a way that they could not patch it back in until after the event had already ended. They did not remove it from PC, only from console and they did so purposely for space issues and didn't consider in advance that it would be a big deal.

So, yes, it is entirely fair for trading guilds who were harmed directly by lack of foresight mere months ago to point out potential future issues and simply say "Hey, what's being considered about this?"

But, yeah, sure, we're all just tilting at windmills and "looking for problems".

DragonRacer

freespirit wrote: »

Actually I am interested in the whole guild trader issue, on PC-EU we sometimes run the map just after swap happens due to losing all bids, it is pretty rare to luck in on an empty spot!

What interests me more is the price comparison between PC and Console for the actual bids..... I suspect GM's on PC are used to paying far, far higher for their spots, this could potentially destroy many Console trade guilds.

I know backwoods locations on PC-EU can cost less than 500k per week if you are lucky but big cities are in the multiple millions(some are eyewatering) price range, can someone from consoles confirm if they are used to similar bids?

I am genuinely curious how big the difference is.

I do not bid in the big three capitals on console often, but on average you generally need to bid 20 mill+ to be competitive at the highest level. I have seen PC GMs share they are in the 50 mill or more range?

So, yes, there is an ENORMOUS difference and if there is no foresight given to trading guilds before crossplay merging happens, then there will likely be zero console trading guilds holding a trader for a long, long time, if ever again.

And then you'll have the trickle down effect of all the "usual suspects" losing their primary spots so all traders down the line to mid-tier and lower cities will see the fallout. As a donation-based guild regularly in a chapter capital (not the big three), I already work this like a full-time second job to be able to secure a trader for us weekly. If we're suddenly thrown in against the PC guilds all wanting their "usual" spots as well, that may finally be the day I retire as a trading guild GM after nearly 10 years. There would simply be no real feasible way to compete, especially when I am already running at max capacity.

SilverBride

I don't know how feasible it would be to add more trader locations, but what about instanced hubs that are reached by portal? Not just one big hub with dozens of traders because we don't want a huge amount of traders in one spot which could render the other trader locations useless. But just several of these hubs with just a handful of traders scattered in towns and remote locations near wayshrines, too.