Update 47 Feedback

ESO_Nightingale · July 9

Hi everyone, not much to report for winter's embrace feedback today considering there were no changes which is a whole seperate issue for this patch.

I wanted to focus on all of the other balance changes i have immediate feedback on.

Minor Heroism class passive replacements:

I honestly think this change is ridiculous. This devalues not only heroism pots and scribing skills with minor heroism, but it effectively deletes ultimate generation passives from the game because you wont ever have 100% uptime on minor heroism with how these are currently balanced so you basically still need previously mentioned devalued sources of minor heroism. all around bad changes. I would ask for these to be reverted but i know that that's probably not going to happen.

Nightblade:

Grim Focus and its morphs:

I'm pretty okay with this change not gonna lie. having passive weapon and spell damage that persisted wasn't really great for the health of the game. major crit buffs are always good to have passively because sourcing them through potions can feel pretty annoying.

Sorcerer:

Lightning Form and its morphs:
I am pretty torn on this. i would be really happy with this change if it wasn't so underbaked. minor force by itself doesn't really feel strong enough compared to losing major resolve. more work needs to be done on these skills. @MashmalloMan had some really great ideas that i'd love to see implemented. make lightning form give major sorcery and brutality, give major savagery and prophecy to crit surge(along with some other kind of auxillary effect like increased concussion damage or something), since that ability wants crits anyway. However, even after that, Boundless Storm is going to need some love if its ever going to be taken over hurricane. it needs a large radius increase and some kind of secondary damage effect like increased concussion proc chance.

Bound Armaments:
ZOS, i do not understand why this ability continues to be neglected over Grim Focus. It's still underpowered. It still costs too much and does too little damage in comparison to grim focus and while making it give major savagery and prophecy is great on paper, all that really does is emphasise that Grim Focus is better in every way. These abilities need more stark contrasts and differences so that there's different reasons to use either one. Bound Armaments really needs the attention that Grim Focus has been getting.

Banner Bearer:

I'm glad that passive crux generation was removed with this change because it really heavily inflated the power of not just beam builds but also arcanist base characters which invalidated taking herald of the tome on a non arcanist character. However, with this being said, only generating a crux if you dont have one already is an incredibly redundant effect and makes class mastery+banner useless on arcanist. this needs to be revisited.

Item Set Changes:

I haven't had time to test any of these changes but most of them sound really solid on paper. as someone who despises highland sentinel, i really like this new philosophy.

ALSO, it needs to be mentioned but Frostbite has been bugged for a while now and it's +4% damage done bonus to chilled enemies is not working properly, severely dampening the power of this set. can we please get this addressed?

New Item Sets:

Honestly a lot of these sets are garbage once again. I really like the Idea behind Black Gem Monstrosity and Xanmeer Spellweaver, but Xanmeer Spellweaver is not tuned in a way that makes it remotely good for elementalist builds over other easy options like order's wrath. item sets like this should be tuned incredibly high because they're made for underperforming niche builds. this needs to be buffed significantly.

General Thoughts:

Overall i really expected a lot of changes this patch but seeing just nerfs and mostly silly class changes has me feeling a bit deflated. I wasn't expecting winter's embrace changes, but i was expecting significant changes for skill lines like Dark Magic that really need them. The item set changes seem pretty solid though so good job on that i guess. Overall this patch seems like step back which is not at all what any of us wanted after experiencing an awesome patch like Update 46. We should have seen many changes this first week.

While i wasn't expecting any winter's embrace changes, i will still probably make another post explaining what we need out of those tomorrow.

YandereGirlfriend · July 9

There are a handful of forum posters that, when you see something new from them, make you sit up straight and pay attention.

And you're consistently one of them.

All of which is to say: excellent criticiques and thank you for doing what you do!

skinnycheeks · July 9

Great post. Thanks for sharing! ZOS please check this out!

ESO_Nightingale · July 10

skinnycheeks wrote: »

Great post. Thanks for sharing! ZOS please check this out!

I can only hope fleetingly that they listen to our feedback

NoSoup · July 10

I think if Bound armaments maintained it's passive resource buffs then the damage separation between it and grim focus would be "ok". But since sorcs are also losing the 8% stamina /8% magic then yeah, the damage really needs to be brought up more in line with Grim focus or Grim focus nerfed...

Keeping the resource gains from Live is probably the cleanest/easiest solution.

madmufffin · July 10

Bound aegis and armaments getting kicked in the balls for no reason really just seems to embody the ZOS balance mentality of throw *** on a wall and make the players eat it. If Xanmeer gave 15% ele damage it would be solid, but in its current state it's completely worthless. Still hoping Frostbite gets fixed one day, but it's been broken so long that I don't think it ever will.

MashmalloMan · July 10

What Bound Armaments and Relentless Focus share:

Instant cast.
28m range.
About half the cost of a spammable.
4 light or 2 heavy attacks required.
Major Prophecy/Savagery for slotting.

What Relentless Focus does better:

2.5% crit chance for slotting.
21% more damage.
-270 less stamina cost.
Stacks up to 10 times, instead of 8, meaning you can fire 3 shots in a row now.
Burst heals in melee range for your entire health bar.
1 projectile instead of 4 spread out over 1.2s, making it more difficult to dodge in pvp or waste in pve.
The red glow telegraph for pvp applies at only 1 stack and is easy to miss due to the abundance of weapon style VFX in comparison to Bound Armaments 4 floating purple daggers. This one is minor, but something.

What Bound Armaments does better:

Nothing... but I'll stetch the truth below in an effort to give it a chance.
5% mitigation Daedric Protection passive is applied indefinitely while the skill is slotted so you don't need to rely on short duration skills like Curse or Ward.
Despite costing 270 more, Rebate passive refunds 371 stamina, thus making it 101 cheaper, although this small win is quickly neutralized via Assassination's 1000 stamina/magicka on kill.
The 1.2s delay on the 4 daggers is easy to dodge/waste, but the multiple instances of damage work well with things like "+x damage done" buffs, status effect application, passives like Burning Light, or as delayed burst but that would be like calling Rapid Strikes or Jabs delayed burst (stretch).
Potentially 108 weapon/spell damage for slotting, but you're required to take a 2nd Sorc Storm Calling line thus locking this bonus to only Sorc mains.

Didn't touch on Assassination's obviously strong passives and skills focussed on 1 role making it an easy pick for any damage dealer VS the mixed hybrid bag of roles that Daedric Summoning and its mostly bad, clunky, or weak skills and passives fall into, but that's rather obvious. Skill to skill, BA is worse in every way which is unacceptable at this point.

MashmalloMan · July 10

To clarify on the Sorc problem; they've moved Major Resolve to Bound Aegis, forcing Sorc's to pick between a fun damage skill or miss out on a crucial Major Resolve buff that is attached to a skill most people will never cast unless they're tanks. The skill literally just eats a bar space. How is that any more interesting than how fun it was to use Lightning Form? Daedric Summoning's identity has become the "slot and forget" line somehow.

In reality, Sorc's are going to entirely move away from Daedric Summoning. It doesn't do ANYTHING well anymore aside from being an ult bot or a zoo role player. It's so bad that it's not even worth casting Daedric Prey with a pet build over slotting an execute like Killer's Blade or burst skill like Grim Focus.

Among a huge amount of changes required like reworks, skill swaps, and passive updates, the simplist thing they can do during this PTS is clean up where the named buffs go.

Bound Armor - Major Resolve to all morphs.
Lightning Form - Major Brutality/Sorcery to all morphs.
Surge - Major Savagery/Prophecy to all morphs. It asks you to crit, why does it not provide crit?
Minor Prophecy - Move this from Dark Magic to Storm Calling, replace with a support focussed passive.

I'd also love to move Crystal Frag/Weapon out of Dark Magic... but I'll focus on what's been said for now.

Where can Minor Force go? The obvious place to put it is Bound Armaments creating a balanced morph decision between offense and defense via minor resolve + blocking or minor force + damage, however.. it would make much more sense to keep it within the damage line of Storm Calling and there is 2 main canidates imo; Mage's Fury and Lightning Splash.

In the case of Mage's Fury, it's objectively the worst execute in the game scaling from 20% with a weaker tooltip than comparitive skills like Impale. Only thing it's good at is kill stealing and aoe damage/sustain, I'll give it that. It rarely finds its place on Storm Calling bars because it's dead weight 80% of the time.

Imagine you got Minor Force for slotting Mage's Fury, among some other minor tweaks like 25% HP scaling, a better tooltip, and maybe dynamic cost for the Stam side of things. I would be much more enticed to run it and Minor Force ends up staying in the Damage Dealer line where it should be.

All that said, I'd be happy with the above changes and Bound Armaments taking it, it would fix my problem with this patch, but not the future of the game. Much more work is required to make Dark Magic and Daedric Summoning better skill lines. Right now, I'm already shopping through other sources of Major Resolve because it's simply not worth picking up through Bound Aegis and even though I want it on Bound Armaments, everything else is so bad, I'm just going to drop it entirely.

Storm Calling is my bread and butter so I'd end up keeping that. Traditionally I need Major Resolve, Minor Prophecy, sustain, healing, and a burst skill. Previously I covered that through Dark Magic and Daedric Summoning via Crystal Frag, Dark Deal, Hurricane, and Bound Armaments/Haunting Curse. Instead, I can take Templar's Restorying Light and Nightblade's Assassination to get Rune Focus, Breath of Life, and Grim Focus. I get everything I need with better passives, better skill variety, I even free up a slot to run a dedicated burst heal instead of relying on the interuptable cast time of Dark Deal.

ESO_Nightingale · July 10

MashmalloMan wrote: »

To clarify on the Sorc problem; they've moved Major Resolve to Bound Aegis, forcing Sorc's to pick between a fun damage skill or miss out on a crucial Major Resolve buff that is attached to a skill most people will never cast unless they're tanks. The skill literally just eats a bar space. How is that any more interesting than how fun it was to use Lightning Form? Daedric Summoning's identity has become the "slot and forget" line somehow.

In reality, Sorc's are going to entirely move away from Daedric Summoning. It doesn't do ANYTHING well anymore aside from being an ult bot or a zoo role player. It's so bad that it's not even worth casting Daedric Prey with a pet build over slotting an execute like Killer's Blade or burst skill like Grim Focus.

Among a huge amount of changes required like reworks, skill swaps, and passive updates, the simplist thing they can do during this PTS is clean up where the named buffs go.
Bound Armor - Major Resolve to all morphs.

Lightning Form - Major Brutality/Sorcery to all morphs.

Surge - Major Savagery/Prophecy to all morphs. It asks you to crit, why does it not provide crit?

Minor Prophecy - Move this from Dark Magic to Storm Calling, replace with a support focussed passive.

I'd also love to move Crystal Frag/Weapon out of Dark Magic... but I'll focus on what's been said for now.

Where can Minor Force go? The obvious place to put it is Bound Armaments creating a balanced morph decision between offense and defense via minor resolve + blocking or minor force + damage, however.. it would make much more sense to keep it within the damage line of Storm Calling and there is 2 main canidates imo; Mage's Fury and Lightning Splash.

In the case of Mage's Fury, it's objectively the worst execute in the game scaling from 20% with a weaker tooltip than comparitive skills like Impale. Only thing it's good at is kill stealing and aoe damage/sustain, I'll give it that. It rarely finds its place on Storm Calling bars because it's dead weight 80% of the time.

Imagine you got Minor Force for slotting Mage's Fury, among some other minor tweaks like 25% HP scaling, a better tooltip, and maybe dynamic cost for the Stam side of things. I would be much more enticed to run it and Minor Force ends up staying in the Damage Dealer line where it should be.

All that said, I'd be happy with the above changes and Bound Armaments taking it, it would fix my problem with this patch, but not the future of the game. Much more work is required to make Dark Magic and Daedric Summoning better skill lines. Right now, I'm already shopping through other sources of Major Resolve because it's simply not worth picking up through Bound Aegis and even though I want it on Bound Armaments, everything else is so bad, I'm just going to drop it entirely.

Storm Calling is my bread and butter so I'd end up keeping that. Traditionally I need Major Resolve, Minor Prophecy, sustain, healing, and a burst skill. Previously I covered that through Dark Magic and Daedric Summoning via Crystal Frag, Dark Deal, Hurricane, and Bound Armaments/Haunting Curse. Instead, I can take Templar's Restorying Light and Nightblade's Assassination to get Rune Focus, Breath of Life, and Grim Focus. I get everything I need with better passives, better skill variety, I even free up a slot to run a dedicated burst heal instead of relying on the interuptable cast time of Dark Deal.

honestly this pretty much. can't really sum it up better than that because i mostly have played warden for my time in eso.

madmufffin · July 10

Mage's fury being the worst execute in the game huge margins tooltip wise coupled with one of the worst animations in the game makes sorc feel even worse. Every line for the clasee just feels ungood to use aside from Storm Caller's passives.

MincMincMinc · July 10

madmufffin wrote: »

Mage's fury being the worst execute in the game huge margins tooltip wise coupled with one of the worst animations in the game makes sorc feel even worse. Every line for the clasee just feels ungood to use aside from Storm Caller's passives.

Sadly if they try to make it viable again they will just slap on a random buff instead of making the active portion of the skill functional.

The vengeance simplified skills only start to look more promising, lets hope they dont blunder when they add morphs to them.

ESO_Nightingale · July 10

madmufffin wrote: »

Mage's fury being the worst execute in the game huge margins tooltip wise coupled with one of the worst animations in the game makes sorc feel even worse. Every line for the clasee just feels ungood to use aside from Storm Caller's passives.

I wish they would take a look at storm calling's damage skills.

randconfig · July 11

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hi everyone, not much to report for winter's embrace feedback today considering there were no changes which is a whole seperate issue for this patch.

I wanted to focus on all of the other balance changes i have immediate feedback on.
Minor Heroism class passive replacements:

I honestly think this change is ridiculous. This devalues not only heroism pots and scribing skills with minor heroism, but it effectively deletes ultimate generation passives from the game because you wont ever have 100% uptime on minor heroism with how these are currently balanced so you basically still need previously mentioned devalued sources of minor heroism. all around bad changes. I would ask for these to be reverted but i know that that's probably not going to happen.
Nightblade:

Grim Focus and its morphs:

I'm pretty okay with this change not gonna lie. having passive weapon and spell damage that persisted wasn't really great for the health of the game. major crit buffs are always good to have passively because sourcing them through potions can feel pretty annoying.
Sorcerer:

Lightning Form and its morphs:
I am pretty torn on this. i would be really happy with this change if it wasn't so underbaked. minor force by itself doesn't really feel strong enough compared to losing major resolve. more work needs to be done on these skills. @MashmalloMan had some really great ideas that i'd love to see implemented. make lightning form give major sorcery and brutality, give major savagery and prophecy to crit surge(along with some other kind of auxillary effect like increased concussion damage or something), since that ability wants crits anyway. However, even after that, Boundless Storm is going to need some love if its ever going to be taken over hurricane. it needs a large radius increase and some kind of secondary damage effect like increased concussion proc chance.

Bound Armaments:
ZOS, i do not understand why this ability continues to be neglected over Grim Focus. It's still underpowered. It still costs too much and does too little damage in comparison to grim focus and while making it give major savagery and prophecy is great on paper, all that really does is emphasise that Grim Focus is better in every way. These abilities need more stark contrasts and differences so that there's different reasons to use either one. Bound Armaments really needs the attention that Grim Focus has been getting.
Banner Bearer:

I'm glad that passive crux generation was removed with this change because it really heavily inflated the power of not just beam builds but also arcanist base characters which invalidated taking herald of the tome on a non arcanist character. However, with this being said, only generating a crux if you dont have one already is an incredibly redundant effect and makes class mastery+banner useless on arcanist. this needs to be revisited.
Item Set Changes:
I haven't had time to test any of these changes but most of them sound really solid on paper. as someone who despises highland sentinel, i really like this new philosophy.

ALSO, it needs to be mentioned but Frostbite has been bugged for a while now and it's +4% damage done bonus to chilled enemies is not working properly, severely dampening the power of this set. can we please get this addressed?
New Item Sets:

Honestly a lot of these sets are garbage once again. I really like the Idea behind Black Gem Monstrosity and Xanmeer Spellweaver, but Xanmeer Spellweaver is not tuned in a way that makes it remotely good for elementalist builds over other easy options like order's wrath. item sets like this should be tuned incredibly high because they're made for underperforming niche builds. this needs to be buffed significantly.
General Thoughts:

Overall i really expected a lot of changes this patch but seeing just nerfs and mostly silly class changes has me feeling a bit deflated. I wasn't expecting winter's embrace changes, but i was expecting significant changes for skill lines like Dark Magic that really need them. The item set changes seem pretty solid though so good job on that i guess. Overall this patch seems like step back which is not at all what any of us wanted after experiencing an awesome patch like Update 46. We should have seen many changes this first week.

While i wasn't expecting any winter's embrace changes, i will still probably make another post explaining what we need out of those tomorrow.

"I'm glad that passive crux generation was removed with this change because it really heavily inflated the power of not just beam builds but also arcanist base characters which invalidated taking herald of the tome on a non arcanist character. "

Wow I am just so happy for you non-Arcanist players. Now you can do exactly what we do, but better! And it only comes at the cost of us being unable to utilize any of our crux passives or crux consumption abilities when we choose to subclass or use a non-class spammable.

I sure am so happy to give up all build variety as an Arcanist and be reduced to a press beam AFK bot.

I definitely will continue playing the game now that I not only have the addition of bugs breaking the Necromancer class from U46, but now the gutting of the Arcanist class in U47. It sure is great having no choices to play how I want.

MashmalloMan · July 11

randconfig wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hi everyone, not much to report for winter's embrace feedback today considering there were no changes which is a whole seperate issue for this patch.

I wanted to focus on all of the other balance changes i have immediate feedback on.
Minor Heroism class passive replacements:

I honestly think this change is ridiculous. This devalues not only heroism pots and scribing skills with minor heroism, but it effectively deletes ultimate generation passives from the game because you wont ever have 100% uptime on minor heroism with how these are currently balanced so you basically still need previously mentioned devalued sources of minor heroism. all around bad changes. I would ask for these to be reverted but i know that that's probably not going to happen.
Nightblade:

Grim Focus and its morphs:

I'm pretty okay with this change not gonna lie. having passive weapon and spell damage that persisted wasn't really great for the health of the game. major crit buffs are always good to have passively because sourcing them through potions can feel pretty annoying.
Sorcerer:

Lightning Form and its morphs:
I am pretty torn on this. i would be really happy with this change if it wasn't so underbaked. minor force by itself doesn't really feel strong enough compared to losing major resolve. more work needs to be done on these skills. @MashmalloMan had some really great ideas that i'd love to see implemented. make lightning form give major sorcery and brutality, give major savagery and prophecy to crit surge(along with some other kind of auxillary effect like increased concussion damage or something), since that ability wants crits anyway. However, even after that, Boundless Storm is going to need some love if its ever going to be taken over hurricane. it needs a large radius increase and some kind of secondary damage effect like increased concussion proc chance.

Bound Armaments:
ZOS, i do not understand why this ability continues to be neglected over Grim Focus. It's still underpowered. It still costs too much and does too little damage in comparison to grim focus and while making it give major savagery and prophecy is great on paper, all that really does is emphasise that Grim Focus is better in every way. These abilities need more stark contrasts and differences so that there's different reasons to use either one. Bound Armaments really needs the attention that Grim Focus has been getting.
Banner Bearer:

I'm glad that passive crux generation was removed with this change because it really heavily inflated the power of not just beam builds but also arcanist base characters which invalidated taking herald of the tome on a non arcanist character. However, with this being said, only generating a crux if you dont have one already is an incredibly redundant effect and makes class mastery+banner useless on arcanist. this needs to be revisited.
Item Set Changes:
I haven't had time to test any of these changes but most of them sound really solid on paper. as someone who despises highland sentinel, i really like this new philosophy.

ALSO, it needs to be mentioned but Frostbite has been bugged for a while now and it's +4% damage done bonus to chilled enemies is not working properly, severely dampening the power of this set. can we please get this addressed?
New Item Sets:

Honestly a lot of these sets are garbage once again. I really like the Idea behind Black Gem Monstrosity and Xanmeer Spellweaver, but Xanmeer Spellweaver is not tuned in a way that makes it remotely good for elementalist builds over other easy options like order's wrath. item sets like this should be tuned incredibly high because they're made for underperforming niche builds. this needs to be buffed significantly.
General Thoughts:

Overall i really expected a lot of changes this patch but seeing just nerfs and mostly silly class changes has me feeling a bit deflated. I wasn't expecting winter's embrace changes, but i was expecting significant changes for skill lines like Dark Magic that really need them. The item set changes seem pretty solid though so good job on that i guess. Overall this patch seems like step back which is not at all what any of us wanted after experiencing an awesome patch like Update 46. We should have seen many changes this first week.

While i wasn't expecting any winter's embrace changes, i will still probably make another post explaining what we need out of those tomorrow.

I sure am so happy to give up all build variety as an Arcanist and be reduced to a press beam AFK bot.

Really picking a needle in a hay stack there, I understand you're upset, but be realistic for a second. Crux is meant to be a class mechanic you interact with to consume or generate, giving it for free every 5s is the exact thing enabling the statement you just made about being a Beam AFK bot which you apparently don't want to be.

If the issue is sources of crux generation, I totally agree they could be better, maybe focus on that, but let's not act like the original design of banner was engaging or balanced to begin with. It completely invalidated the core concept of the class.

AtriaKhorist · July 11

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hi everyone, not much to report for winter's embrace feedback today considering there were no changes which is a whole seperate issue for this patch.
Sorcerer:

Lightning Form and its morphs:
I am pretty torn on this. i would be really happy with this change if it wasn't so underbaked. minor force by itself doesn't really feel strong enough compared to losing major resolve. more work needs to be done on these skills. @MashmalloMan had some really great ideas that i'd love to see implemented. make lightning form give major sorcery and brutality, give major savagery and prophecy to crit surge(along with some other kind of auxillary effect like increased concussion damage or something), since that ability wants crits anyway. However, even after that, Boundless Storm is going to need some love if its ever going to be taken over hurricane. it needs a large radius increase and some kind of secondary damage effect like increased concussion proc chance.

Please no. There are easy class-neutral alternatives for Major Savagery, but Brutality is trickier to source. The last thing I'd want is for that to be attached to a melee-favouring skill as visually divisive as Lightning Form.

ESO_Nightingale · July 11

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hi everyone, not much to report for winter's embrace feedback today considering there were no changes which is a whole seperate issue for this patch.
Sorcerer:

Lightning Form and its morphs:
I am pretty torn on this. i would be really happy with this change if it wasn't so underbaked. minor force by itself doesn't really feel strong enough compared to losing major resolve. more work needs to be done on these skills. @MashmalloMan had some really great ideas that i'd love to see implemented. make lightning form give major sorcery and brutality, give major savagery and prophecy to crit surge(along with some other kind of auxillary effect like increased concussion damage or something), since that ability wants crits anyway. However, even after that, Boundless Storm is going to need some love if its ever going to be taken over hurricane. it needs a large radius increase and some kind of secondary damage effect like increased concussion proc chance.

Please no. There are easy class-neutral alternatives for Major Savagery, but Brutality is trickier to source. The last thing I'd want is for that to be attached to a melee-favouring skill as visually divisive as Lightning Form.

Either way, at least in pve, potions are probably gonna be used to source the buff you need.

randconfig · July 11

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Really picking a needle in a hay stack there, I understand you're upset, but be realistic for a second. Crux is meant to be a class mechanic you interact with to consume or generate, giving it for free every 5s is the exact thing enabling the statement you just made about being a Beam AFK bot which you apparently don't want to be.

If the issue is sources of crux generation, I totally agree they could be better, maybe focus on that, but let's not act like the original design of banner was engaging or balanced to begin with. It completely invalidated the core concept of the class.

So you think it's okay that Arcanist is the only class that cannot effectively use scribing, subclassing, or nonclass skills?

So you think it's fun and engaging gameplay to force Arcanist players to only use runeblades spammable?

So just suffer until sometime in the future the devs change the class to allow for crux generation by other abilities, assuming they even have the intentions to do so, meanwhile the reason for the class mastery gutting was to nerf a single ability (the beam)?

And no, I've always said the beam should not allow crux generation during the channel. That's literally all that needs to be changed. The class mastery script was fine the way it was.

tomofhyrule · July 11

randconfig wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Really picking a needle in a hay stack there, I understand you're upset, but be realistic for a second. Crux is meant to be a class mechanic you interact with to consume or generate, giving it for free every 5s is the exact thing enabling the statement you just made about being a Beam AFK bot which you apparently don't want to be.

If the issue is sources of crux generation, I totally agree they could be better, maybe focus on that, but let's not act like the original design of banner was engaging or balanced to begin with. It completely invalidated the core concept of the class.

So you think it's okay that Arcanist is the only class that cannot effectively use scribing, subclassing, or nonclass skills?

So you think it's fun and engaging gameplay to force Arcanist players to only use runeblades spammable?

So just suffer until sometime in the future the devs change the class to allow for crux generation by other abilities, assuming they even have the intentions to do so, meanwhile the reason for the class mastery gutting was to nerf a single ability (the beam)?

And no, I've always said the beam should not allow crux generation during the channel. That's literally all that needs to be changed. The class mastery script was fine the way it was.

Out of curiosity, where are you getting the idea that Arcanist's Class Mastery will only ever create one crux and be done with it?

It was specifically stated that was for using it on Banner Bearer only. Other Scribed Arcanist skills with Class Mastery will generate a crux on cast as intended. I literally just went on PTS and tested with Arcanist Class Mastery on Torchbearer, and every time I cast Torchbearer, I got a Crux from it. Three Torchbearer casts, and I had full crux, with no other skills cast or active.

So yes, you can still use Arcanist Class Mastery as before. Just not on Banner Bearer specifically.

ESO_Nightingale · July 12

tomofhyrule wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Really picking a needle in a hay stack there, I understand you're upset, but be realistic for a second. Crux is meant to be a class mechanic you interact with to consume or generate, giving it for free every 5s is the exact thing enabling the statement you just made about being a Beam AFK bot which you apparently don't want to be.

If the issue is sources of crux generation, I totally agree they could be better, maybe focus on that, but let's not act like the original design of banner was engaging or balanced to begin with. It completely invalidated the core concept of the class.

So you think it's okay that Arcanist is the only class that cannot effectively use scribing, subclassing, or nonclass skills?

So you think it's fun and engaging gameplay to force Arcanist players to only use runeblades spammable?

So just suffer until sometime in the future the devs change the class to allow for crux generation by other abilities, assuming they even have the intentions to do so, meanwhile the reason for the class mastery gutting was to nerf a single ability (the beam)?

And no, I've always said the beam should not allow crux generation during the channel. That's literally all that needs to be changed. The class mastery script was fine the way it was.

Out of curiosity, where are you getting the idea that Arcanist's Class Mastery will only ever create one crux and be done with it?

It was specifically stated that was for using it on Banner Bearer only. Other Scribed Arcanist skills with Class Mastery will generate a crux on cast as intended. I literally just went on PTS and tested with Arcanist Class Mastery on Torchbearer, and every time I cast Torchbearer, I got a Crux from it. Three Torchbearer casts, and I had full crux, with no other skills cast or active.

So yes, you can still use Arcanist Class Mastery as before. Just not on Banner Bearer specifically.

Yeah. While the change to crux on banner was far from perfect, it didn't change for any other scribing skill and so while i hope it does change again, i think the game is going to be in a much healthier state when you have to actively build towards your next 3x crux beam or tentacular dread.

AtriaKhorist · July 13

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hi everyone, not much to report for winter's embrace feedback today considering there were no changes which is a whole seperate issue for this patch.
Sorcerer:

Lightning Form and its morphs:
I am pretty torn on this. i would be really happy with this change if it wasn't so underbaked. minor force by itself doesn't really feel strong enough compared to losing major resolve. more work needs to be done on these skills. @MashmalloMan had some really great ideas that i'd love to see implemented. make lightning form give major sorcery and brutality, give major savagery and prophecy to crit surge(along with some other kind of auxillary effect like increased concussion damage or something), since that ability wants crits anyway. However, even after that, Boundless Storm is going to need some love if its ever going to be taken over hurricane. it needs a large radius increase and some kind of secondary damage effect like increased concussion proc chance.

Please no. There are easy class-neutral alternatives for Major Savagery, but Brutality is trickier to source. The last thing I'd want is for that to be attached to a melee-favouring skill as visually divisive as Lightning Form.

Either way, at least in pve, potions are probably gonna be used to source the buff you need.

That may be true for endgame trials, but not in a significant remaining chunk of the game which is equally affected. And if it's going to be sourced from potions anyway in your opinion I see even less reason to switch it around.

My point remains. There are valid alternatives for Savagery already. Brutality is more annoying to source. Don't tie it to a visually divisive melee skill.

preevious · July 13

randconfig wrote: »

And no, I've always said the beam should not allow crux generation during the channel. That's literally all that needs to be changed. The class mastery script was fine the way it was.

To be fair, he makes a good point, there. That would indeed solve the problem without having to move anything else.
I agree that it would be quite enough.

However, I don't know how they code, and there might not be any hooks that would allow them to pull this off.

ESO_Nightingale · July 14

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hi everyone, not much to report for winter's embrace feedback today considering there were no changes which is a whole seperate issue for this patch.
Sorcerer:

Lightning Form and its morphs:
I am pretty torn on this. i would be really happy with this change if it wasn't so underbaked. minor force by itself doesn't really feel strong enough compared to losing major resolve. more work needs to be done on these skills. @MashmalloMan had some really great ideas that i'd love to see implemented. make lightning form give major sorcery and brutality, give major savagery and prophecy to crit surge(along with some other kind of auxillary effect like increased concussion damage or something), since that ability wants crits anyway. However, even after that, Boundless Storm is going to need some love if its ever going to be taken over hurricane. it needs a large radius increase and some kind of secondary damage effect like increased concussion proc chance.

Please no. There are easy class-neutral alternatives for Major Savagery, but Brutality is trickier to source. The last thing I'd want is for that to be attached to a melee-favouring skill as visually divisive as Lightning Form.

Either way, at least in pve, potions are probably gonna be used to source the buff you need.

That may be true for endgame trials, but not in a significant remaining chunk of the game which is equally affected. And if it's going to be sourced from potions anyway in your opinion I see even less reason to switch it around.

My point remains. There are valid alternatives for Savagery already. Brutality is more annoying to source. Don't tie it to a visually divisive melee skill.

i reckon they should change the visual a bit anyway. being nearly invisible is kinda strange.

AtriaKhorist · July 14

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

AtriaKhorist wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Hi everyone, not much to report for winter's embrace feedback today considering there were no changes which is a whole seperate issue for this patch.
Sorcerer:

Lightning Form and its morphs:
I am pretty torn on this. i would be really happy with this change if it wasn't so underbaked. minor force by itself doesn't really feel strong enough compared to losing major resolve. more work needs to be done on these skills. @MashmalloMan had some really great ideas that i'd love to see implemented. make lightning form give major sorcery and brutality, give major savagery and prophecy to crit surge(along with some other kind of auxillary effect like increased concussion damage or something), since that ability wants crits anyway. However, even after that, Boundless Storm is going to need some love if its ever going to be taken over hurricane. it needs a large radius increase and some kind of secondary damage effect like increased concussion proc chance.

Please no. There are easy class-neutral alternatives for Major Savagery, but Brutality is trickier to source. The last thing I'd want is for that to be attached to a melee-favouring skill as visually divisive as Lightning Form.

Either way, at least in pve, potions are probably gonna be used to source the buff you need.

That may be true for endgame trials, but not in a significant remaining chunk of the game which is equally affected. And if it's going to be sourced from potions anyway in your opinion I see even less reason to switch it around.

My point remains. There are valid alternatives for Savagery already. Brutality is more annoying to source. Don't tie it to a visually divisive melee skill.

i reckon they should change the visual a bit anyway. being nearly invisible is kinda strange.

Oh, definitely. Fully transforming into lightning is a bit crazy - and it hides the character one presumably spends a lot of time designing. They did change Bound Armour back in the day for the same reason, after all.

Calibanana · July 15

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

i reckon they should change the visual a bit anyway. being nearly invisible is kinda strange.

Oh they definitely need to update it. While I myself don't do much PvP, I have noticed a constant issue in the matches I have been doing recently to try and unlock all the Battleground styles. And it's that Lightning Form, especially with the Ruby Red style, can actually make it hard to see people who are using either morph of the skill.

ESO_Nightingale · July 17

Calibanana wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

i reckon they should change the visual a bit anyway. being nearly invisible is kinda strange.

Oh they definitely need to update it. While I myself don't do much PvP, I have noticed a constant issue in the matches I have been doing recently to try and unlock all the Battleground styles. And it's that Lightning Form, especially with the Ruby Red style, can actually make it hard to see people who are using either morph of the skill.

its certainly showing its age now anyway.