Vengeance - THE WORST PVP EVER

Major_Mangle · July 1

Vengeance takes the approach of true accessibility where as long as someone is level 15, they can hop in on any character and be on equal footing to anyone else on the same class.

I´ll quote this part of Stamicka´s comment since it´s the main thing I want to respond to.

Increasing accessibility is somewhat fine, but not if it´s at the expense of the upper level of progression/theorycrafting etc, which is what Vengeance essentially does. Players claiming Vengeance showcasing "true skill" fail to realize that "skill" in ESO has more or less always been about how you customize your build/gear/sets (and this has been the case since the game launched). Even in no-proc what sets you ran was 85% of your success rate (didn´t take long for people to figure out what sets gave the best stats).

People wouldn´t dream of saying that we need a PvE Vengeance where everyone get a template based on their role just to make everyone on equal footing, so why should we´ve that for PvP? Removing progression isn´t the way in my opinion.

I totally get the frustration with certain tools with live Cyrodiil/PvP, and I´m always in favor of proper balancing, but I´d rather have a un-balanced mess compared to the barebone template with Vengeance (or whatever version ZOS eventually ends up with, because lets be real, ZOS will push Vengeance to be more than just a series of tests).

Jaavaa · July 1

This campaign feels like a boring CoD Match. I can do easy 1v5 here or get zerged by 12 people. The 5 peoples are newcomers from PvE and the 12 peoples are Ball-Players, like in GH. I‘m fine with other opinions, for me it’s boring as hell. No Competition atm, just zergs.

Islyn · July 1

Jaavaa wrote: »

This campaign feels like a boring CoD Match. I can do easy 1v5 here or get zerged by 12 people. The 5 peoples are newcomers from PvE and the 12 peoples are Ball-Players, like in GH. I‘m fine with other opinions, for me it’s boring as hell. No Competition atm, just zergs.

I knew it would be that way - IDK how anyone could logically expect anything different. I'm sorry you're not having a good time tho.

licenturion · July 1

Mayrael wrote: »

The expectations killed the early game. Everyone thought that they are getting Skyrim online. Also the buy-to-play model was a big barrier. This conversation’s starting to veer off-topic, though.

Let’s say Vengeance becomes the main PvP campaign. It’s new and exciting, but how long will that last? How soon before players get bored? What’s next? Will ZOS keep adding new features to Vengeance? How often would they need to do that to keep players engaged? And won’t that mess with performance?

They could make this 'seasonal'. Each campaign duration you get a limited set of skills and sets that rotate every season. This is how a lot games are doing things these days to keep things fresh while also keeping it balanced and more accessible for players who want that experience.

BUT... they should keep the regular PvP as a mode too for those that want the full experience. It should remain for the people who like that 'playlist'. That way Vengeance wouldn't be a problem, and if the mere existence of an alternative PvP mode is a problem for people, then it gets into pure gatekeeping territory.

ForumBully · July 1

I've done pretty much nothing but PvP since launch, so I guess that makes me one the PvPers being "punished" by Vengeance. Normal Cyrodiil is a disaster. It's unplayable in its current state and after Vengeance ends I'm off ESO until the next iteration.
The attitude that PvP should remain in its current state is why it's considered a niche activity, virtually ignored by the majority of the play base and developers. I'd much rather Cyrodiil was something that attracted ALL players, not just a handful of egos.
I can't imagine the mindset where people think a massive bump in interest and activity in a game mode is a bad thing.

OutLaw_Nynx · July 1

I think what I’m enjoying about this is that I’m not being killed immediately by sets.

Mayrael · July 1

ForumBully wrote: »

[...] Normal Cyrodiil is a disaster. It's unplayable in its current state [...]

Strange because, I can play no problem during peak hours, it gets bad only when BallGroups show up. Not their fault, just the servers crapping out.

ForumBully wrote: »

[...]
The attitude that PvP should remain in its current state is why it's considered a niche activity, virtually ignored by the majority of the play base and developers. I'd much rather Cyrodiil was something that attracted ALL players, not just a handful of egos.
I can't imagine the mindset where people think a massive bump in interest and activity in a game mode is a bad thing.

Nobody claims that having more players in PvP is a bad thing, but it shouldn't come at any cost.

Why won't PvE players sacrifice their progress for standardized templates in trials and dungeons? Why is it only dedicated PvP players who are expected to abandon all the time and effort they've invested to get better?

What's the logic behind believing that a new player in PvP should be as strong as a veteran, but not in PvE?

MISTFORMBZZZ · July 1

Abelon wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Eisengreifer wrote: »

Honestly, as a most time PVEer, I haven't had so much fun in Cyro in years.

Thats what we mean. No offense to you, but pvp´ers are punished so pve ´ers who own 90% of the game anyway are pleased.
Feels wrong.

No. The reality is that 90% of the actual PvP players stopped playing PvP years ago, because of the mess that it is. Because of how little attention ZoS gives it. Because of lag. Because of proc sets. Because of a million other things that have been discussed on the forums a million times over. You can't act like "you" represent all the PvPers. You especially can't act that way when the forums are literally flooded with threads of PvPers being unhappy with PvP and demanding changes. PvP in the current state might be all fine and great for you... It's not all fine and great for all the PvPers. And when things aren't fine, what do you do? That's right, you fix them. Sometimes the fix isn't obvious, so you have to try things out and test them, and collect feedback.

So good on ZoS for finally doing something for PvP. Good on them for taking a risk and trying something new despite meltdowns on the forums. Good on them for actually testing it and letting people submit feedback, during which they and us, will see what the stance on Vengeance really is.

Either way though. You guys need to understand that having Vengeance doesn't necessarily mean you can't have normal modes either. Right now is a test week and an exception. But later we could have both. Ask for both, so that you can have your old fun and that other people can have their new fun. Don't try to bury a mode with potential purely out of spite or some weird "old way is better" or the even worse "pvers are ruining mah game!" It's a huge MMO. There's something for everyone.

And youre representing the „90% who quitted“? And where are you getting this data from?

Just because of you feel like that?

Pvp ers have literally two zones for themself and i seen enough demands to make even them pve.

Yes it is valid to complain this being made worse for us. You need to accept other opinions too, same as i have to accept yours.

amiiegee · July 1

Opinions are only accepted here if they fit into the swarms narrative.

You shall not even complain or say anything & just buy all the stuff zos throws out.

👍

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

It’s just a test.

Lordy some will complain about anything! 🤣

Deedleqwerty · July 1

I loathe the Vengeance campaign. I will not play this campaign.

Deedle

thedude33 · July 1

ForumBully wrote: »

I've done pretty much nothing but PvP since launch, so I guess that makes me one the PvPers being "punished" by Vengeance. Normal Cyrodiil is a disaster. It's unplayable in its current state and after Vengeance ends I'm off ESO until the next iteration.
The attitude that PvP should remain in its current state is why it's considered a niche activity, virtually ignored by the majority of the play base and developers. I'd much rather Cyrodiil was something that attracted ALL players, not just a handful of egos.
I can't imagine the mindset where people think a massive bump in interest and activity in a game mode is a bad thing.

Really no choice but to have both options. Let the player base decide. Neither side is wrong

Ingenon · July 1

Mayrael wrote: »

Strange because, I can play no problem during peak hours, it gets bad only when BallGroups show up. Not their fault, just the servers crapping out.

I think that ball groups deliberately wear proc sets and spam "deysnc" skills which overwhelm the servers with calculations and cause lag. And I do not think that ZOS can fix this without limiting sets and skills. When you have groups of skilled players that are deliberately selecting sets and spamming skills to cause massive amounts of server calculations - what do you expect to happen?

ForumBully · July 1

If the end result of these tests is that performance is better and participation is higher, that's all I've wanted for years. Keep going ZOS. Apparently trying to improve the game isn't popular with some, but I expect that the data will show it's wildly popular with most

demonology89 · July 1

Yeah, all I'm going to say is thank you ZOS for at least trying somewhere to fix Cyrodiil.

LadyGP · July 1

amiiegee wrote: »

Opinions are only accepted here if they fit into the swarms narrative.

You shall not even complain or say anything & just buy all the stuff zos throws out.

👍

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

It’s just a test.

Lordy some will complain about anything! 🤣

It's just a test.

Also I cancelled my ESO sub a few months back when performance got bad and refuse to buy anything in this game. So, again, your narrative comment doesn't link up. People are allowed to have positive feedback, bad feedback, or point out (what zos has said) that this is simply a performance test and their end vision of pvp doesn't look like this.

Joy_Division · July 1

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

React wrote: »

This iteration of vengeance is awful. There is too much healing now, and with an AOE cap of 3 on damage abilities the whole "greater numbers win" thing has really been reinforced. You have like no chance at all to outplay people when they outnumber you if they've got even the most basic skillset.

A lot of people claimed that vengeance allowed for more "skill expression", but that just isn't the case with this iteration. Really unfortunate to see given how fun PVP has been this patch with the huge damage increase from subclassing.

When you say "too much healing now," are you talking about players healing other players, or do you also mean self healing? Because I was struggling to heal myself enough to stay alive while trying to solo-capture resources and being attacked by the NPC guards. I could heal myself, but it didn't take long to run out of reserves, and I was having trouble recovering my reserves with heavy attacks. The tri-restoration potion helped, but each time you use it you have to wait out the cooldown before you can use it again.

Despite my difficulties, I was able to get 6/8 of the Golden Pursuits on PC EU, and 8/8 on PC NA, mainly because I spent more time playing on PC NA. It was equal parts fun and frustrating, because the population of my alliance was dropping by the time I went to Cyrodiil and we ended up being outnumbered by the other two alliances. It will be interesting to see how it goes on PC EU during hours when my alliance has better representation.

The options to heal yourself are much more plentiful in this version of Vengeance. In Vengeance I on my Plar, I was so desperate for survival tools, that I actually slotted Sun Shield (lol). No HoT. You're just running out there with Breath and found yourself spamming Sun Shield because with the hundreds of people around you, your breath often went elsewhere.

In Vengeance II, I now have numerous alternatives for healing. Vigor is a good HoT available to everyone regardless of class/weapon. Sword and Board has a shield twice as good as Sun Shield. Of course, Resto Staff had 4 to choose from (Siphon has been a waste of a skill since 2015). People who know what they are doing are quite a bit tankier in Vengeance II than Vengeance I. This is both encouraging and discouraging. Encouraging because we now see some separation between good/experienced players and average/casuals due to build variety. Live has gone way way too far in this regard, but there still should be some advantage to putting together an efficient character. Discouraging because now ZOS is beginning to repeat the exact same mistakes it did on Live: AoE damage caps with favoring healing/survival over damage.

To your point about the NPC guards. In Vengeance I, I legit had a hard time with them, having to use things like LOS and still it felt like the old Maelstrom Arena back in say 2016. In Vengeance II, it was noticeably easier. Still had to peel them away from each other because the Template builds are pretty bad, but at no point did I feel like I'd actually die.

Sluggy · July 1

Joy_Division wrote: »

The options to heal yourself are much more plentiful in this version of Vengeance. In Vengeance I on my Plar, I was so desperate for survival tools, that I actually slotted Sun Shield (lol). No HoT. You're just running out there with Breath and found yourself spamming Sun Shield because with the hundreds of people around you, your breath often went elsewhere.

In Vengeance II, I now how numerous alternatives for healing. Vigor is a good HoT available to everyone regardless of class/weapon. Sword and Board has a shield twice as good as Sun Shield. Of course, Resto Staff had 4 to choose from (Siphon has been a waste of a skill since 2015). People who know what they are doing are quite a bit tankier in Vengeance II than Vengeance I. This is both encouraging and discouraging. Encouraging because we now see some separation between good/experienced players and average/casuals due to build variety. Live has gone way way too far in this regard, but there still should be some advantage to putting together an efficient character. Discouraging because now ZOS is beginning to repeat the exact same mistakes it did on Live: AoE damage caps with favoring healing/survival over damage.

To your point about the NPC guards. In Vengeance I, I legit had a hard time with them, having to use things like LOS and still it felt like the old Maelstrom Arena back in say 2016. In Vengeance II, it was noticeably easier. Still had to peel them away from each other because the Template builds are pretty bad, but at no point did I feel like I'd actually die.

Yeah, it was immediately noticeable within a few seconds of fighting that killing players was harder this time around. I don't necessarily feel bad about that. Like you said, it's a tool that good players were making great use of to fight when out numbered and it even allowed several good groups to get something like a composition team going quite well and fight even when out numbered two or three to one.

I also feel like sustain is much easier this time around. It might be because I'm able to better split between mag and stam resources. I actually don't really like this. Infinite sustain is the road that leads to immortal troll tanks and stalemate fights.

ForumBully · July 1

Joy_Division wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

React wrote: »

This iteration of vengeance is awful. There is too much healing now, and with an AOE cap of 3 on damage abilities the whole "greater numbers win" thing has really been reinforced. You have like no chance at all to outplay people when they outnumber you if they've got even the most basic skillset.

A lot of people claimed that vengeance allowed for more "skill expression", but that just isn't the case with this iteration. Really unfortunate to see given how fun PVP has been this patch with the huge damage increase from subclassing.

When you say "too much healing now," are you talking about players healing other players, or do you also mean self healing? Because I was struggling to heal myself enough to stay alive while trying to solo-capture resources and being attacked by the NPC guards. I could heal myself, but it didn't take long to run out of reserves, and I was having trouble recovering my reserves with heavy attacks. The tri-restoration potion helped, but each time you use it you have to wait out the cooldown before you can use it again.

Despite my difficulties, I was able to get 6/8 of the Golden Pursuits on PC EU, and 8/8 on PC NA, mainly because I spent more time playing on PC NA. It was equal parts fun and frustrating, because the population of my alliance was dropping by the time I went to Cyrodiil and we ended up being outnumbered by the other two alliances. It will be interesting to see how it goes on PC EU during hours when my alliance has better representation.

The options to heal yourself are much more plentiful in this version of Vengeance. In Vengeance I on my Plar, I was so desperate for survival tools, that I actually slotted Sun Shield (lol). No HoT. You're just running out there with Breath and found yourself spamming Sun Shield because with the hundreds of people around you, your breath often went elsewhere.

In Vengeance II, I now have numerous alternatives for healing. Vigor is a good HoT available to everyone regardless of class/weapon. Sword and Board has a shield twice as good as Sun Shield. Of course, Resto Staff had 4 to choose from (Siphon has been a waste of a skill since 2015). People who know what they are doing are quite a bit tankier in Vengeance II than Vengeance I. This is both encouraging and discouraging. Encouraging because we now see some separation between good/experienced players and average/casuals due to build variety. Live has gone way way too far in this regard, but there still should be some advantage to putting together an efficient character. Discouraging because now ZOS is beginning to repeat the exact same mistakes it did on Live: AoE damage caps with favoring healing/survival over damage.

To your point about the NPC guards. In Vengeance I, I legit had a hard time with them, having to use things like LOS and still it felt like the old Maelstrom Arena back in say 2016. In Vengeance II, it was noticeably easier. Still had to peel them away from each other because the Template builds are pretty bad, but at no point did I feel like I'd actually die.

Healing definitely feels like it's outpacing damage. On a necro resto/s&b healer I just held off 3 attackers for a couple of minutes before being rolled by the zerg and that had nothing to do with AoE caps since I was alone. On a dedicated healer, maybe that's not wrong, it should be a struggle to take down a healer...after all they only heal, but it's to the point here where siege also feels almost inconsequential against healing.

LadyGP · July 1

Ingenon wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Strange because, I can play no problem during peak hours, it gets bad only when BallGroups show up. Not their fault, just the servers crapping out.

I think that ball groups deliberately wear proc sets and spam "deysnc" skills which overwhelm the servers with calculations and cause lag. And I do not think that ZOS can fix this without limiting sets and skills. When you have groups of skilled players that are deliberately selecting sets and spamming skills to cause massive amounts of server calculations - what do you expect to happen?

This isn't true.

We don't "deliberately" wear sets and spam skills with the purpose of causing people to "desync". Do you think it is fun for us to kill people who literally can't move, cast a skill, do anything at all (and no getting caught in a pull and unable to break because you have poor resource management is not the same thing)?

Ball groups "cause lag" because they are so min/maxed and just the sheer number of skills being cast in general around ball groups causes so much math the server can't process it quick enough (there just isn't enough throughput).

Ball groups attract players (aka mini zergs). How come it's the ball groups that cause lag and not the 30-40 players trying to kill them? Those players are casting more skills than the ball groups do. Things like hots/shield spam doesn't cost much in the form of server performance FYI.

I've been in many GvGvG (ball group vs ball group vs ball group) out in the middle of no where and you know what - zero lag.

I'm exhausted from the ball group causes lag conversation. We get it - the vast majority of players don't like ball groups (because they have been OP for too long and haven't had a change that hurt them that I can remember).

And for those that say this test gets rid of ball groups - well there was one last night on AD running around that was pretty damn good - but they could be killed too. Ball groups will figure out a new comp so embrace it.

Does this test fix lag - 100% yes it does. Now lets have a constructive conversation on how they can improve the skills/sets/cp while keeping the performance hear this level.

Joy_Division · July 1

Abelon wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Eisengreifer wrote: »

Honestly, as a most time PVEer, I haven't had so much fun in Cyro in years.

Thats what we mean. No offense to you, but pvp´ers are punished so pve ´ers who own 90% of the game anyway are pleased.
Feels wrong.

No. The reality is that 90% of the actual PvP players stopped playing PvP years ago, because of the mess that it is. Because of how little attention ZoS gives it. Because of lag. Because of proc sets. Because of a million other things that have been discussed on the forums a million times over. You can't act like "you" represent all the PvPers. You especially can't act that way when the forums are literally flooded with threads of PvPers being unhappy with PvP and demanding changes. PvP in the current state might be all fine and great for you... It's not all fine and great for all the PvPers. And when things aren't fine, what do you do? That's right, you fix them. Sometimes the fix isn't obvious, so you have to try things out and test them, and collect feedback.

So good on ZoS for finally doing something for PvP. Good on them for taking a risk and trying something new despite meltdowns on the forums. Good on them for actually testing it and letting people submit feedback, during which they and us, will see what the stance on Vengeance really is.

Either way though. You guys need to understand that having Vengeance doesn't necessarily mean you can't have normal modes either. Right now is a test week and an exception. But later we could have both. Ask for both, so that you can have your old fun and that other people can have their new fun. Don't try to bury a mode with potential purely out of spite or some weird "old way is better" or the even worse "pvers are ruining mah game!" It's a huge MMO. There's something for everyone.

I know right. Threads like this made by Vengeance's critics miss the irony in that everything they say about how bad the PvP is and will drive away the "real" PvPers has already happened on Live.

If ZOS makes a PvP version that attracts the so called PvE casuals as consistently as these Vengeance tests have so far done, good on them. Unlike Live where apparently the "real" PvPers need things like Rush of Agony and meta builds that literally have no weaknesses, I'm having fun with the "casuals" who have kept logging into Vengeance.

StihlReign · July 1

Islyn wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Most fun since 2014.

So would you be happy if this was just how pvp is from now on?

Would you?

amiiegee · July 1

When will be vengeance PVE be a thing, so i can get all trifectas with no experience and no min maxed gear?

Ingenon · July 1

LadyGP wrote: »

This isn't true.

We don't "deliberately" wear sets and spam skills with the purpose of causing people to "desync". Do you think it is fun for us to kill people who literally can't move, cast a skill, do anything at all (and no getting caught in a pull and unable to break because you have poor resource management is not the same thing)?

Ball groups "cause lag" because they are so min/maxed and just the sheer number of skills being cast in general around ball groups causes so much math the server can't process it quick enough (there just isn't enough throughput).

Ball groups attract players (aka mini zergs). How come it's the ball groups that cause lag and not the 30-40 players trying to kill them? Those players are casting more skills than the ball groups do. Things like hots/shield spam doesn't cost much in the form of server performance FYI.

I've been in many GvGvG (ball group vs ball group vs ball group) out in the middle of no where and you know what - zero lag.

I'm exhausted from the ball group causes lag conversation. We get it - the vast majority of players don't like ball groups (because they have been OP for too long and haven't had a change that hurt them that I can remember).

And for those that say this test gets rid of ball groups - well there was one last night on AD running around that was pretty damn good - but they could be killed too. Ball groups will figure out a new comp so embrace it.

Does this test fix lag - 100% yes it does. Now lets have a constructive conversation on how they can improve the skills/sets/cp while keeping the performance hear this level.

I believe that there will always be ball groups in ESO as long as ZOS provides a Cyrodiil campaign. And I believe that ZOS needs to limit server calculations if they are to have any chance of fixing lag in Cyrodiil. I am fine with ZOS starting with Vengeance 1 successful test results and adding skills and/or sets until the performance level drops - and then ship it to live without the last set of adds that caused the performance drops.

Minnesinger · July 1

This is funny that once every now and then Cyroddil has something going but different than normal and complaints start. Not only the population has increased but the performance is top notch. The typical issues that normally plague pvp are, you got it, low population and performance. The issue is somewhat ironically the pvpers themselves. This guys only bombs and do not know what to do otherwise. This guy only plays in a ball group and now they are defunct. So lets just enjoy while the test is on. After that we will return to the dead map.

Abelon · July 1

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Abelon wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Eisengreifer wrote: »

Honestly, as a most time PVEer, I haven't had so much fun in Cyro in years.

Thats what we mean. No offense to you, but pvp´ers are punished so pve ´ers who own 90% of the game anyway are pleased.
Feels wrong.

No. The reality is that 90% of the actual PvP players stopped playing PvP years ago, because of the mess that it is. Because of how little attention ZoS gives it. Because of lag. Because of proc sets. Because of a million other things that have been discussed on the forums a million times over. You can't act like "you" represent all the PvPers. You especially can't act that way when the forums are literally flooded with threads of PvPers being unhappy with PvP and demanding changes. PvP in the current state might be all fine and great for you... It's not all fine and great for all the PvPers. And when things aren't fine, what do you do? That's right, you fix them. Sometimes the fix isn't obvious, so you have to try things out and test them, and collect feedback.

So good on ZoS for finally doing something for PvP. Good on them for taking a risk and trying something new despite meltdowns on the forums. Good on them for actually testing it and letting people submit feedback, during which they and us, will see what the stance on Vengeance really is.

Either way though. You guys need to understand that having Vengeance doesn't necessarily mean you can't have normal modes either. Right now is a test week and an exception. But later we could have both. Ask for both, so that you can have your old fun and that other people can have their new fun. Don't try to bury a mode with potential purely out of spite or some weird "old way is better" or the even worse "pvers are ruining mah game!" It's a huge MMO. There's something for everyone.

And youre representing the „90% who quitted“? And where are you getting this data from?

Just because of you feel like that?

Pvp ers have literally two zones for themself and i seen enough demands to make even them pve.

Yes it is valid to complain this being made worse for us. You need to accept other opinions too, same as i have to accept yours.

Did you even read past the first sentence before angrily replying? Where did I ever say my opinion is the right one or that you have to accept it? I said your opinion isn't the only one. That is fact. Neither is mine, but I never claimed otherwise. I said forums have been flooded with posts of people unhappy with pvp. That is fact. These Vengeance tests are ZoS' attempt at some sort of a solution. That is fact. ZoS is testing it and collecting feedback. I said provide your feedback, that's a good thing, I didn't say "your opinion is wrong and you shouldn't say anything," I said don't claim that you represent the entire PvP playerbase when even the forums clearly demonstrate otherwise.

I also literally said you should have your old campaigns too. I believe there is place for both those and Vengeance. It's you who is not accepting anything, who is trying to shut down every single idea and compromise just so things stay the "old" way, everybody else be damned. Otherwise maybe you'd bother to reply to everything else that was written and not put words in my mouth.

licenturion · July 1

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Eisengreifer wrote: »

Honestly, as a most time PVEer, I haven't had so much fun in Cyro in years.

Thats what we mean. No offense to you, but pvp´ers are punished so pve ´ers who own 90% of the game anyway are pleased.
Feels wrong.

Let me guess... you are one of those people who is going to be angry too and feels 'punished' if they put an optional Vengeance campaign next to the original campaigns because how dare PvE players even have a slight feeling of fun dipping their toes in PvP.

Abelon · July 1

amiiegee wrote: »

When will be vengeance PVE be a thing, so i can get all trifectas with no experience and no min maxed gear?

When "PvE" becomes a half dead game mode where all you ever hear are complaints about how it's impossible to play. When nearly every forum thread about "PvE" will be begging ZoS to "fix my "PvE", it's so unplayable, I hate how you won't fix my "PvE"!!! Fix it! Fix it!" When every new game system or content piece added only leads to complaints about how it's becoming even more impossible to play (every new armor set? subclassing? every single balancing change?).

That's when maybe ZoS will consider PvE Vengeance.

ForumBully · July 1

Just FYI if anyone wants to contribute to actual feedback beyond hurt feelings they should do so here

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/679827

I'm planning to get a little more playtime first

amiiegee · July 1

Abelon wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Abelon wrote: »

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

Eisengreifer wrote: »

Honestly, as a most time PVEer, I haven't had so much fun in Cyro in years.

Thats what we mean. No offense to you, but pvp´ers are punished so pve ´ers who own 90% of the game anyway are pleased.
Feels wrong.

No. The reality is that 90% of the actual PvP players stopped playing PvP years ago, because of the mess that it is. Because of how little attention ZoS gives it. Because of lag. Because of proc sets. Because of a million other things that have been discussed on the forums a million times over. You can't act like "you" represent all the PvPers. You especially can't act that way when the forums are literally flooded with threads of PvPers being unhappy with PvP and demanding changes. PvP in the current state might be all fine and great for you... It's not all fine and great for all the PvPers. And when things aren't fine, what do you do? That's right, you fix them. Sometimes the fix isn't obvious, so you have to try things out and test them, and collect feedback.

So good on ZoS for finally doing something for PvP. Good on them for taking a risk and trying something new despite meltdowns on the forums. Good on them for actually testing it and letting people submit feedback, during which they and us, will see what the stance on Vengeance really is.

Either way though. You guys need to understand that having Vengeance doesn't necessarily mean you can't have normal modes either. Right now is a test week and an exception. But later we could have both. Ask for both, so that you can have your old fun and that other people can have their new fun. Don't try to bury a mode with potential purely out of spite or some weird "old way is better" or the even worse "pvers are ruining mah game!" It's a huge MMO. There's something for everyone.

And youre representing the „90% who quitted“? And where are you getting this data from?

Just because of you feel like that?

Pvp ers have literally two zones for themself and i seen enough demands to make even them pve.

Yes it is valid to complain this being made worse for us. You need to accept other opinions too, same as i have to accept yours.

Did you even read past the first sentence before angrily replying? Where did I ever say my opinion is the right one or that you have to accept it? I said your opinion isn't the only one. That is fact. Neither is mine, but I never claimed otherwise. I said forums have been flooded with posts of people unhappy with pvp. That is fact. These Vengeance tests are ZoS' attempt at some sort of a solution. That is fact. ZoS is testing it and collecting feedback. I said provide your feedback, that's a good thing, I didn't say "your opinion is wrong and you shouldn't say anything," I said don't claim that you represent the entire PvP playerbase when even the forums clearly demonstrate otherwise.

I also literally said you should have your old campaigns too. I believe there is place for both those and Vengeance. It's you who is not accepting anything, who is trying to shut down every single idea and compromise just so things stay the "old" way, everybody else be damned. Otherwise maybe you'd bother to reply to everything else that was written and not put words in my mouth.

You also claimed 90% of the pvpers stopped playing wich is just a hot take.

On the rest i agree with you mostly.

Also im sorry if i was rude, didnt mean to.
As i said for me this killed my favorite game now (for 8 days i know its not permanently xD), since other pvp options then cyrodiil are not aviable, due low population.

amiiegee · July 1

Abelon wrote: »

amiiegee wrote: »

When will be vengeance PVE be a thing, so i can get all trifectas with no experience and no min maxed gear?

When "PvE" becomes a half dead game mode where all you ever hear are complaints about how it's impossible to play. When nearly every forum thread about "PvE" will be begging ZoS to "fix my "PvE", it's so unplayable, I hate how you won't fix my "PvE"!!! Fix it! Fix it!" When every new game system or content piece added only leads to complaints about how it's becoming even more impossible to play (every new armor set? subclassing? every single balancing change?).

That's when maybe ZoS will consider PvE Vengeance.

good point xD