The Elder Scrolls Online: Remastered. When?

Einar_Hrafnarsson · April 25

Hi!

I Played Oblivion so many times i probably know most things there are to know but with the Remaster and seeing how beautiful everything looks, it just reignited the Fire for this Game.
It is like finally wandering through Cyrodiil as it looked in my Head almost 20 Years ago.

So while i am absolutely Certain that ESO Remaster will never happen, its amazing simply imagining how everything would look if it got the same treatment as ES4 Oblivion.

TyrTrolas · April 25

In 11 years

LunaFlora · April 25

ZOS started updating old zones this year, update 45 has updates for the starter islands.
so they're kind of already doing it.

can't expect a remaster that's on a whole new engine until several decades in the future though i think

sans-culottes · April 25

As Tommy Tallarico says, “Wouldn't that be something?”

MJallday · April 25

It would need a complete rewrite - there’s no money in that

At this point an ESO 2 is more likely

Gabriel_H · April 25

They started updating the background processes last year, and continue to do so.

As for upscaling the graphics - depends entirely on the makeup of PCs and consoles of the player base. Not sure too many would be happy about having to shell out for a new graphics card for an MMO they have been playing just fine without it.

Pepegrillos · April 25

There are many alternatives.

You can remaster your game as you go to keep it current. That's what WoW has been doing since the start (just compare graphics, models, textures, etc., between the original version, intermediate versions, and now). I've heard FF14 did some sort of graphical update recently too.

You can make a sequel to your game. That's what Anet does with Guild Wars. There is Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, and now we know they are working on Guild Wars 3.

You can make a different game in the same genre. As far as we know, Zenimax has been working on a new MMORPG for more than 5 years now. I'm not sure if other companies have done this (maybe EA with Warhammer Online and SWTOR?).

You can do nothing and let your game fade out while still making money from your shop. This is the SWTOR way.

Tandor · April 25

Pepegrillos wrote: »

You can remaster your game as you go to keep it current. That's what WoW has been doing since the start (just compare graphics, models, textures, etc., between the original version, intermediate versions, and now). I've heard FF14 did some sort of graphical update recently too.

It's also what ESO has been doing, both in new content, new features and systems, and upgraded graphics. Until recently the upgraded graphics were restricted to the new content but now they're also producing graphics updates to the base zones.

Wereswan · April 25

MJallday wrote: »

It would need a complete rewrite - there’s no money in that

At this point an ESO 2 is more likely

https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/elder-scrolls-online-creative-director-explains-why-there-wont-be-eso-2-1803564/

Pepegrillos · April 25

Tandor wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

You can remaster your game as you go to keep it current. That's what WoW has been doing since the start (just compare graphics, models, textures, etc., between the original version, intermediate versions, and now). I've heard FF14 did some sort of graphical update recently too.

It's also what ESO has been doing, both in new content, new features and systems, and upgraded graphics. Until recently the upgraded graphics were restricted to the new content but now they're also producing graphics updates to the base zones.

In some respects, yes, but nothing at the scale that WoW has done over the years (I'm just thinking of graphics here, obviously ESO has added tons of systems and the like).

Einar_Hrafnarsson · April 25

LunaFlora wrote: »

ZOS started updating old zones this year, update 45 has updates for the starter islands.
so they're kind of already doing it.

can't expect a remaster that's on a whole new engine until several decades in the future though i think

Yeah adding a few assets isn't a Graphical update in my humble opinion but yeah, something on the Scale that Oblivion Remastered got won't happen. ESO is struggling as it is.

Warhawke_80 · April 25

I do believe that ZoS is looking at evolving ESO on a Engine level..it's no secret that with the current engine you can't do...

well..

there are so many things you "Can't Do" With the Herostein Engine....

It's apparent that ZoS has plans for the future of the game...though not sure of specifics...

old_scopie1945 · April 25

ESO is just fine with me, I don't understand the fascination with this shiny new toy. Then I do, its all the hype that goes with it.

ArchangelIsraphel · April 25

To be honest, I hope not. Oblivion Remaster is pretty fun, but the character creator leaves so much to be desired. I actually think the look of ESO's art style and character creator as it is are superior to the Remaster. I realize that's a personal preference on my part, but I'm not really fond of the rather generic look of Unreal Engine. Sure, it has the "Elder Scrolls" look...but uhm. Yeah. There's a reason mods in the single player games exist.

I particularly prefer the look of the Bosmer, Dunmer, and Altmer in ESO- I wouldn't want my characters altered to look like what we have in the remake.

I think the graphical updates they're doing right now to the zones are fine. I'm not against updating the textures to be more HD, ext, but I'd like to see the ESO look retained.

old_scopie1945 · April 25

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

To be honest, I hope not. Oblivion Remaster is pretty fun, but the character creator leaves so much to be desired. I actually think the look of ESO's art style and character creator as it is are superior to the Remaster. I realize that's a personal preference on my part, but I'm not really fond of the rather generic look of Unreal Engine. Sure, it has the "Elder Scrolls" look...but uhm. Yeah. There's a reason mods in the single player games exist.

I particularly prefer the look of the Bosmer, Dunmer, and Altmer in ESO- I wouldn't want my characters altered to look like what we have in the remake.

I think the graphical updates they're doing right now to the zones are fine. I'm not against updating the textures to be more HD, ext, but I'd like to see the ESO look retained.

I'm onboard with all you say, notably about the Elves. I get the felling that Bafesda are running a hate campaign against Elven kind. Most notably Skyrim. Aren't Elves by tradition, supposed to be an attractive race? As for graphics, ESO's has a charm all of its own to my eye.

Syldras · April 25

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I particularly prefer the look of the Bosmer, Dunmer, and Altmer in ESO- I wouldn't want my characters altered to look like what we have in the remake.

What, you don't want to look like this, Bosmer?

(Yes, I just had to search for screenshots of some characters - so far really not impressed about what they did with mer; a few human characters look fine, but mer... No, not my taste. Also seen Mannimarco - I'm not certain yet whether he looks better or worse than in the original Oblivion, and that tells a lot).

Nomadic_Atmoran · April 25

Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

ZOS started updating old zones this year, update 45 has updates for the starter islands.
so they're kind of already doing it.

can't expect a remaster that's on a whole new engine until several decades in the future though i think

Yeah adding a few assets isn't a Graphical update in my humble opinion but yeah, something on the Scale that Oblivion Remastered got won't happen. ESO is struggling as it is.

What exactly do you hope will change with ESOs appearance? What exactly is outdated that what they are currently working through wont fix for you?

RaikaNA · April 25

I'm waiting for Skyrim Remastered to be released... I hope they finally fix all the bugs that they failed to resolve. Such a shame that I have to rely on modders to patch up the game.

ArchangelIsraphel · April 26

old_scopie1945 wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

To be honest, I hope not. Oblivion Remaster is pretty fun, but the character creator leaves so much to be desired. I actually think the look of ESO's art style and character creator as it is are superior to the Remaster. I realize that's a personal preference on my part, but I'm not really fond of the rather generic look of Unreal Engine. Sure, it has the "Elder Scrolls" look...but uhm. Yeah. There's a reason mods in the single player games exist.

I particularly prefer the look of the Bosmer, Dunmer, and Altmer in ESO- I wouldn't want my characters altered to look like what we have in the remake.

I think the graphical updates they're doing right now to the zones are fine. I'm not against updating the textures to be more HD, ext, but I'd like to see the ESO look retained.

I'm onboard with all you say, notably about the Elves. I get the felling that Bafesda are running a hate campaign against Elven kind. Most notably Skyrim. Aren't Elves by tradition, supposed to be an attractive race? As for graphics, ESO's has a charm all of its own to my eye.

Elves are traditionally described as being beautiful in many different mythologies, yes. However, their appearance can vary depending on culture. I grew up with a lot of Germanic folklore and fairy tales, and in many of those stories elves are depicted as being quite small, lovely, and almost fairy-like. Although I feel like the term Elf is used more broadly in these stories as a reference to a few different forms of nature spirits, rather than a solid concept of a specific race. (This is the impression I had, in any case.)

They also weren't always nice- they could chose to help you, or make your life a misery if they wished, which is a theme seen in many different mythologies. Traditionally, elves were far more ethereal, wilder beings than the concept of their cultures presented in TES, where they become embroiled in human-like politics. Even so, we see a cultural values in the TES series that are not of this world, which I like.

The image of elves most people have in their minds as tall and beautiful is heavily influenced by western fantasy literature, namely Tolkien, who was in turn inspired by many different traditions and mythologies. I've always felt that his depiction granted them a more "angelic" appearance, that shifted the term Elf away from the fae wildness of it's origins. So when people see the sharp, eldritch look of ESO's elves, they find them rather unsettling (many even say they're ugly) when I actually feel that ESO's depiction hearkens back to their original nature, one that isn't entirely human. One that suggests that the mind behind the eyes of these elves does not operate in the same way, or have the same values a humans might.

Which isn't to say that I don't like Tolkien-like elves- they are indeed pretty. But I love my sharp-faced Mer in TES.

But I think what one thinks of as beautiful can be highly subjective. Personally, I enjoy forms of beauty that deviate from what might be considered traditional. The problem with the character creators in the older games isn't really a lack of beauty per-se, it's that what you're given to adjust the character is limited, and that the proportions of the underlying facial mesh tend to be rather poor, failing to follow some basic anatomical rules. While it's fine to deviate as we are working with races who do not have human proportions or necessarily follow human anatomical laws, we have issues where a character's head is so...shall we say "gummy" looking? That it seems that they don't have a skull at all, much less one that would function. Or we have issues where the age sliders have limitations which don't allow us to create something as "young" looking as we might like (this issue does exist in ESO as well.)

I feel ESO's mer character creator is nicer because it's underlying meshes feel more "solid", providing a base "skeleton" beneath the flesh that feels realistic, even if the proportions deviate from those of a regular human. We also don't have the weird flatness/strangely positioned features that the other games have. This results in nicer looking characters overall.

Syldras wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I particularly prefer the look of the Bosmer, Dunmer, and Altmer in ESO- I wouldn't want my characters altered to look like what we have in the remake.

What, you don't want to look like this, Bosmer?

(Yes, I just had to search for screenshots of some characters - so far really not impressed about what they did with mer; a few human characters look fine, but mer... No, not my taste. Also seen Mannimarco - I'm not certain yet whether he looks better or worse than in the original Oblivion, and that tells a lot).

To be honest, I actually don't find him that bad

I'd personally shave the beard and give him a different hair style, and adjust the eyes/brows quite a bit, but I like his cheekbones, and he does look like a bosmer to me. But he does kind of show one of the main problems with the entire character creator, which is that the characters skulls/heads are very, very angular and boxy in a way that isn't complimenting their sharp features. Their skulls shouldn't look...square

Syldras · April 26

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Elves are traditionally described as being beautiful in many different mythologies, yes. However, their appearance can vary depending on culture. I grew up with a lot of Germanic folklore and fairy tales, and in many of those stories elves are depicted as being quite small, lovely, and almost fairy-like. Although I feel like the term Elf is used more broadly in these stories as a reference to a few different forms of nature spirits, rather than a solid concept of a specific race. (This is the impression I had, in any case.)
They also weren't always nice- they could chose to help you, or make your life a misery if they wished, which is a theme seen in many different mythologies.

It's actually interesting that, at some point, the German language made a divide. Formerly (or more precisely: in Old High German and Middle High German language), so roughly until medieval times, elf was a term that was used for all nature spirits. Then, it somehow divided into "Elf" or "Elfe" for the, well, more beautiful, positive and dainty creatures, and (take note of the linguistic similarity) "Alp", for the darker and potentially more dangerous beings. Many people nowadays don't know anymore what an Alp is, although they still use the word regularly: in "Alptraum" (Alp+Traum) which means nightmare, or literally "dream of/about/caused by an Alp". Although that's actually the same in English, where the "mare" from "nightmare" also describes a malicious being. There's also a German variant of that: Nachtmahr, with Mahr being the evil spirit, although that word is even less known here today.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

So when people see the sharp, eldritch look of ESO's elves, they find them rather unsettling (many even say they're ugly) when I actually feel that ESO's depiction hearkens back to their original nature, one that isn't entirely human.

I never understood how they can be seen as ugly - their concept, I mean. In Skyrim I do have the issue that their faces look somehow rigid and wax-like (same goes for the humans, of course, but with less pronounces features it doesn't look that extreme). And in Oblivion everyone was potato-faced anyway. But in general, I think they're quite beautiful. Especially the eyes, actually.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

To be honest, I actually don't find him that bad I'd personally shave the beard and give him a different hair style, and adjust the eyes/brows quite a bit, but I like his cheekbones, and he does look like a bosmer to me. But he does kind of show one of the main problems with the entire character creator, which is that the characters skulls/heads are very, very angular and boxy in a way that isn't complimenting their sharp features. Their skulls shouldn't look...square

Yes, I've also been wondering about that. From the screenshots I've seen, many humans look quite good, but the mer?! It's indeed probably that the characters' faces generally look so boxy, which can still look more natural with humans, but it clearly goes against the typical facial features that mer are supposed to have in TES. I've also noticed that it looks much better if you don't see the complete face or head shape, when it's partly covered by a helmet. So yes, main problem seems to be the shape.

Twohothardware · April 26

What I've never understood is how we can have a Call of Duty or Battlefield game releasing every year but we can't get a new Elder Scrolls game in under 10 years.

ArchangelIsraphel · April 26

Syldras wrote: »

It's actually interesting that, at some point, the German language made a divide. Formerly (or more precisely: in Old High German and Middle High German language), so roughly until medieval times, elf was a term that was used for all nature spirits. Then, it somehow divided into "Elf" or "Elfe" for the, well, more beautiful, positive and dainty creatures, and (take note of the linguistic similarity) "Alp", for the darker and potentially more dangerous beings.

Thank you for giving me more insight into the background of these stories! I always felt I was missing some context in the translations of my books, especially since the darker stories tend to get watered down for general consumption. We aren't familiar with that problem at all are we They make a lot more sense when there's a distinction between the two types.

Elf and Alp are rather reminiscent of the Scottish Seelie and Unseelie Courts then, it seems, though perhaps more feral in nature.

Syldras wrote: »

I never understood how they can be seen as ugly - their concept, I mean. In Skyrim I do have the issue that their faces look somehow rigid and wax-like (same goes for the humans, of course, but with less pronounces features it doesn't look that extreme). And in Oblivion everyone was potato-faced anyway. But in general, I think they're quite beautiful. Especially the eyes, actually.

Same, I've always loved the eyes in Skyrim and ESO. I was pleased that ESO's character creator retained the ability to tilt the eyes on all Mer. The way the entire iris fills the eye gives their faces the wild, animal-like quality of a predatory bird, and I enjoy that.

I'm probably weird, but the appearance of elves in TES actually aligns more with the mental image I've always had of them. When I first saw LOTR, I was initially disappointed that the elves were so human looking. Long before I ever played any TES games, I read a series of historical fantasy books by Judith Tarr called "The Hound and the Falcon" (Published in 1985, before TES) It featured a race of elves who lived in hiding among humans. Their features were often described to be sharp, reminiscent of a falcon or an eagle, with slanted, cat-like eyes. This description was actually what shaped my personal view of what an elf should be, because I found it to be so otherworldly and interesting.

Actually, the book cover of the edition I have even resembles Altmer and Bosmer a bit, though the illustrator didn't get the author's description of their eyes quite right:

I was incredibly pleased when I first logged into ESO and saw the character creator, because my mental image of an elf was basically standing right in front of me. So really, it's impossible for me to see them as anything but beautiful.

Syldras wrote: »

It's indeed probably that the characters' faces generally look so boxy, which can still look more natural with humans, but it clearly goes against the typical facial features that mer are supposed to have in TES.

Yes, in general they're faces are also too prognathous, especially the bosmer. The distance between the hair line and the brow is too short, and the overall length of the faces are just incorrect (It's an eyesore on Altmer and Dunmer, who are supposed to be long and sharp)

I've never seen a character creator manage to be simultaneously too boxy and pointy, but also squishy and round looking at the same time...yet the oblivion remaster manages it. I'm almost impressed XD

Syldras · April 26

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Same, I've always loved the eyes in Skyrim and ESO. I was pleased that ESO's character creator retained the ability to tilt the eyes on all Mer.

Some people have naturally tilted eyes. In reality, I mean. Although of course not as extreme as it is possible with mer in the TES games. And often it's partly an optical illusion due to a long epicanthic fold (I know it from experience, I have very pronounced ones - always reminds me of a really creepy incident about a decade ago where some online aquaintance I've never met before recognized me, only by my eyes, by chance, at a station - we had not planned to meet, and I really only had one picture of my eyes on my profile page, but he still knew it was me and approached me. Still creeps me out until today). Anyway, I find it beautiful and it's definitely something I usually use when creating mer.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

The way the entire iris fills the eye gives their faces the wild, animal-like quality of a predatory bird, and I enjoy that.

I made the Bosmer - miniature dachshund comparision for a reason. Birds, yes, birds, of course

No, seriously: There's something intense about it. Not only that the irises are so huge, but also the often vibrant color. Not sure how anyone can find that creepy. Unless they're also afraid of miniature dachshunds.

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

When I first saw LOTR, I was initially disappointed that the elves were so human looking.

In my case, it's not even only because of TES. I think if there's a species of non-humans, it's just plain boring if they look like average humans. There should be something about them which makes them different, something fundamental, not just slightly pointed ears or something like that. Which is also the reason I don't enjoy the ESO trailers much.

colossalvoids · April 26

It was insanely popular game that has a ton of legacy to it's name, ESO doesn't have anything like that to have such a work done to it. It's fairly modern anyway and is currently worked on even if that's a skeleton team. Maximum we'll see is other mainline ones as this double engine remakes might be a new standard for awhile.

Toanis · April 26

Pepegrillos wrote: »

You can do nothing and let your game fade out while still making money from your shop. This is the SWTOR way.

Nah, the SWTOR devs don't do nothing, they have an elaborate master plan:

Have the world's largest IP in a game that blends top notch CRPG storytelling with the gameplay of the largest MMO.
Turn the game into a strictly single player interactive movie for 2 years.
Release only simple but tiresome group content for the next year or two.
Strip 2/3 of all abilities from classes, and return some of them as mutually exclusive choices.
Update the graphics to make everyone look like 40+
???
Profit.

Warhawke_80 · April 26

Twohothardware wrote: »

What I've never understood is how we can have a Call of Duty or Battlefield game releasing every year but we can't get a new Elder Scrolls game in under 10 years.

Making a FPS and making RPG's are two very different things

No one wants Bethesda to following the Kotic model of regularly crap in a box and charge as much as possible for it.

ImmortalCX · April 26

MJallday wrote: »

It would need a complete rewrite - there’s no money in that

At this point an ESO 2 is more likely

I think MMOs are very 2005 entertainment.

I don't expect there to be any new MMOs that reach the success of WOW or even the semi-success of its successors.

With streaming, there is interactivity in all kinds of games, you don't need to be in an actual MMO to feel connected to other people any more.

Game designers are chasing the dragon, hoping there will be some combination of quality and timing that nets them the next WOW. Not gonna happen.

Rungar · April 26

ImmortalCX wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

It would need a complete rewrite - there’s no money in that

At this point an ESO 2 is more likely

I think MMOs are very 2005 entertainment.

I don't expect there to be any new MMOs that reach the success of WOW or even the semi-success of its successors.

With streaming, there is interactivity in all kinds of games, you don't need to be in an actual MMO to feel connected to other people any more.

Game designers are chasing the dragon, hoping there will be some combination of quality and timing that nets them the next WOW. Not gonna happen.

Maybe oneday they will actually try designing something. Not much has changed since 1999.

Syldras · April 26

ImmortalCX wrote: »

With streaming, there is interactivity in all kinds of games, you don't need to be in an actual MMO to feel connected to other people any more.

I understand that everyone will feel differently about this, but for me, there's a big difference in watching someone play (even if I'm talking to that person and am included in decisions) and actually playing together.

And I'm not only talking about streaming. I can remember when I was younger, I was sitting together in front of a screen with a friend or several friends, and one of us played and the rest discussed what to do. It can be fun, but it's different than actively cooperating to defeat an enemy together, or something like that.

zaria · April 26

RaikaNA wrote: »

I'm waiting for Skyrim Remastered to be released... I hope they finally fix all the bugs that they failed to resolve. Such a shame that I have to rely on modders to patch up the game.

Skyrim was restricted by the PS 3 and 360 lack of memory.
This is why you never fight many enemies at once and enemies disappear fast also enemies does not follow you out of a house or dungeons like in Oblivion, if its people outside the PS 3 might run out of memory.

As I understand Fallout 3 will probably get this treatment next.
Skyrim should be pretty easy compared to Oblivion who was very dated and had more issues, level scaling and leveling.

Morrowind would be hard,

Twohothardware · April 26

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

What I've never understood is how we can have a Call of Duty or Battlefield game releasing every year but we can't get a new Elder Scrolls game in under 10 years.

Making a FPS and making RPG's are two very different things

No one wants Bethesda to following the Kotic model of regularly crap in a box and charge as much as possible for it.

I'm not saying a yearly release schedule like COD, I'm saying by comparison taking a decade and longer for releases is way too long. You have your audience literally growing out of gaming by the time we get the sequel. ESO is going into it's 11th year and we don't even have a hint of ESO 2 coming.

And I don't believe it's because it takes a decade to make a really good RPG. It's because they're wasting loads of time and money on other pipedream projects like Starfield that end up being a dud.

The same thing is going on right now with Bungie and Destiny. They're about to release their new game Marathon instead of focusing all their efforts on Destiny 3.