Oops you did it again (Warden nonsense)

Dalsinthus

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote:

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from.

That's every class, if you're uncreative enough and obsessed enough with getting tiny numerical advantages.

Parses coming off the PTS today suggest that the advantages are not minor.

Those parses are because solar barrage is bugged

https://youtu.be/lwLv44bD9Lw?si=Ez346URMNAcERaMW

This is in-line with what people expected. I don't see what the issue is.

There are many issues, including that this is massive power creep and that these numbers are unattainable as a single class character.

Most people felt that we'd be approaching 170k this patch and still felt things were fine. You're reducing your survivability by 20%+ and more damage isn't just going to magically make people not stand in stupid. DPS has not been a gatekeeper for content for a while now.

First it's because templar skills are bugged. Then when a non-bugged parse with a 30% power jump is provided, it's this is no big deal, it's "what most people expected." Have a good one.

madmufffin

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote:

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from.

That's every class, if you're uncreative enough and obsessed enough with getting tiny numerical advantages.

Parses coming off the PTS today suggest that the advantages are not minor.

Those parses are because solar barrage is bugged

https://youtu.be/lwLv44bD9Lw?si=Ez346URMNAcERaMW

This is in-line with what people expected. I don't see what the issue is.

There are many issues, including that this is massive power creep and that these numbers are unattainable as a single class character.

Most people felt that we'd be approaching 170k this patch and still felt things were fine. You're reducing your survivability by 20%+ and more damage isn't just going to magically make people not stand in stupid. DPS has not been a gatekeeper for content for a while now.

First it's because templar skills are bugged. Then when a non-bugged parse with a 30% power jump is provided, it's this is no big deal, it's "what most people expected." Have a good one.

A 156k parse is not a 30% jump. It's not even 10%.

MurkyWetWolf198

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote:

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from.

That's every class, if you're uncreative enough and obsessed enough with getting tiny numerical advantages.

Parses coming off the PTS today suggest that the advantages are not minor.

Those parses are because solar barrage is bugged

https://youtu.be/lwLv44bD9Lw?si=Ez346URMNAcERaMW

This is in-line with what people expected. I don't see what the issue is.

There are many issues, including that this is massive power creep and that these numbers are unattainable as a single class character.

Most people felt that we'd be approaching 170k this patch and still felt things were fine. You're reducing your survivability by 20%+ and more damage isn't just going to magically make people not stand in stupid. DPS has not been a gatekeeper for content for a while now.

I gotta agree, we need to see how usable this stuff is in content before we claim it’s fully OP. A dead dd does no damage, no matter how much they can parse. Maybe we could power-up defensive/healing skill lines to provide a trade-off for anyone wanting to run 3 dd skill lines? Incentivize people to take some level of survivability by making it actually worthwhile and effective in harder content? We already see this with healers taking Green Balance for minor toughness. If we make other skill lines strong, it’ll help the base classes and encourage build diversity

ADarklore

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

I guess if you use the 2 (or is it 3?) necro skills that use frost damage they also get a buff?

Still a long ways short of a full kit.

Or, you combine Warden-Necro-Arc and get the status buff from Arcanist passive and Arc also has a couple of frost damage abilities. Combine that with Frostbite and Order's Wrath, Valkyn Shoulders and Oakensoul Ring... seems like a pretty potent mixture. At least, for the content that I run.

SkaiFaith

I admit I only read OP's post, but I just wanted to say that scribing added several sources of frost damage, and subclassing will give even more. It's not honest to pretend "wardens don't have valid frost damage skills" IMO...

I don't have an informed opinion yet on this change - want to see it in action before judging myself, but the removal of the health requirement is a good thing for me.

madmufffin

SkaiFaith wrote: »

I admit I only read OP's post, but I just wanted to say that scribing added several sources of frost damage, and subclassing will give even more. It's not honest to pretend "wardens don't have valid frost damage skills" IMO...

I don't have an informed opinion yet on this change - want to see it in action before judging myself, but the removal of the health requirement is a good thing for me.

Designing class passives around non-class skills doesn't make sense. Even then, it's still just an objective nerf.

Skjaldbjorn

SkaiFaith wrote: »

I admit I only read OP's post, but I just wanted to say that scribing added several sources of frost damage, and subclassing will give even more. It's not honest to pretend "wardens don't have valid frost damage skills" IMO...

I don't have an informed opinion yet on this change - want to see it in action before judging myself, but the removal of the health requirement is a good thing for me.

Comparatively speaking, scribing skills by and large do pretty garbage damage especially when compared to class skills. Yes, they have frost damage, but that doesn't make them good.

Skjaldbjorn

madmufffin wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

The buffs to Animal Comapnions is quite substantial and will stack very well with NB Assassination line. I run a stamden in my tri cores and it feels nice and I think it'll feel even better subclasses.

What buffs to animal companions? Crit damage? If your group doesn't have you crit damage capped already, something is wrong.

A few extra % of crit is still going to fit into your build smoothly and 8% more recovery is absolutely needed as the class is severely resource challenged in content.

Uh...no? If your group is even decent at major force uptime, and assuming you have all the buffs;

50% + 20% (Major) + 10% (Minor) + LE (11%) + EC (15%) + Medium Armor (~12-14%) = 118-120%

So you are grossly over cap before this change even if all you're running is bear and shalks. This is, at best, a tiny fractional gain when Major Force is down. Otherwise, it's completely meaningless and offers effectively nothing in any kind of functional, organized group content.

Which is why it was profoundly stupid to take this passive off of actual damage gain when they did it. The only stat that would make this passive less terrible would be crit, but they seem diametrically opposed to putting crit on anything that isn't a NB or that doesn't have stipulations like the necro passive, so whatever.

MurkyWetWolf198

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

The buffs to Animal Comapnions is quite substantial and will stack very well with NB Assassination line. I run a stamden in my tri cores and it feels nice and I think it'll feel even better subclasses.

What buffs to animal companions? Crit damage? If your group doesn't have you crit damage capped already, something is wrong.

A few extra % of crit is still going to fit into your build smoothly and 8% more recovery is absolutely needed as the class is severely resource challenged in content.

Uh...no? If your group is even decent at major force uptime, and assuming you have all the buffs;

50% + 20% (Major) + 10% (Minor) + LE (11%) + EC (15%) + Medium Armor (~12-14%) = 118-120%

So you are grossly over cap before this change even if all you're running is bear and shalks. This is, at best, a tiny fractional gain when Major Force is down. Otherwise, it's completely meaningless and offers effectively nothing in any kind of functional, organized group content.

Which is why it was profoundly stupid to take this passive off of actual damage gain when they did it. The only stat that would make this passive less terrible would be crit, but they seem diametrically opposed to putting crit on anything that isn't a NB or that doesn't have stipulations like the necro passive, so whatever.

Well, you missed some buffs like minor brittle in your calculation, but you are assuming that it’s an organized group, which many players don’t have.

Also, with Beam Builds as they are right now, Arcs are hitting crit cap without EC, so the Warden’s providing their own crit damage might become more valuable if EC stops being a sought after set.

Also also, Wardens are really nice in Solo/IA content, because they can run light armor, cover Maj/min breach, min vuln & off-balance while still hitting crit damage cap. The crit damage may not be optimal for 12 man or parse, but it’s got plenty of strength for 4-man and smaller

Skjaldbjorn

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Well, you missed some buffs like minor brittle in your calculation, but you are assuming that it’s an organized group, which many players don’t have.

Also, with Beam Builds as they are right now, Arcs are hitting crit cap without EC, so the Warden’s providing their own crit damage might become more valuable if EC stops being a sought after set.

Also also, Wardens are really nice in Solo/IA content, because they can run light armor, cover Maj/min breach, min vuln & off-balance while still hitting crit damage cap. The crit damage may not be optimal for 12 man or parse, but it’s got plenty of strength for 4-man and smaller

You're right, brittle skipped my mind, so it's actually even worse than I said lmao.

I agree that the passive can have use outside of organized trial content, but I cannot name another class damage passive that is definitively as useless in that scope. The only one that springs to mind was the NB flanking pen passive, but even that got changed to something much more useful while Warden's got "buffed" by just increasing wasted stat.

Skjaldbjorn

This is doubly bad if the perception going around right now is true - the Frost tree is definitively just a "tanking" tree. If that makes the AC tree the true sole "damage" tree, it has, by far, the worst damage passives in the game by an exceptionally wide margin.

MurkyWetWolf198

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Well, you missed some buffs like minor brittle in your calculation, but you are assuming that it’s an organized group, which many players don’t have.

Also, with Beam Builds as they are right now, Arcs are hitting crit cap without EC, so the Warden’s providing their own crit damage might become more valuable if EC stops being a sought after set.

Also also, Wardens are really nice in Solo/IA content, because they can run light armor, cover Maj/min breach, min vuln & off-balance while still hitting crit damage cap. The crit damage may not be optimal for 12 man or parse, but it’s got plenty of strength for 4-man and smaller

You're right, brittle skipped my mind, so it's actually even worse than I said lmao.

I agree that the passive can have use outside of organized trial content, but I cannot name another class damage passive that is definitively as useless in that scope. The only one that springs to mind was the NB flanking pen passive, but even that got changed to something much more useful while Warden's got "buffed" by just increasing wasted stat.

There are quite a lot worse from a dd standpoint. Any passive relating to healing is useless on a 12-man dd. Tank/resistance passives are only mildly nice, and still somewhat pointless on 12-man dd. I think it’s unfair to judge a passive when it’s not being used in an environment suited for it. If you want warden to be viable, maybe start looking for mag-teams running light armor comps, or teams without EC. Or make one yourself honestly. Because, if we’re being honest, changing this passive will not make warden’s more META than beam bots, not with how things currently stand.

I do wish they’d not nerf Piercing Cold though, or at least give more frost damage skills. I do think Subclassing Mag Arc with frost flail might have potential with it, but still

Skjaldbjorn

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Well, you missed some buffs like minor brittle in your calculation, but you are assuming that it’s an organized group, which many players don’t have.

Also, with Beam Builds as they are right now, Arcs are hitting crit cap without EC, so the Warden’s providing their own crit damage might become more valuable if EC stops being a sought after set.

Also also, Wardens are really nice in Solo/IA content, because they can run light armor, cover Maj/min breach, min vuln & off-balance while still hitting crit damage cap. The crit damage may not be optimal for 12 man or parse, but it’s got plenty of strength for 4-man and smaller

You're right, brittle skipped my mind, so it's actually even worse than I said lmao.

I agree that the passive can have use outside of organized trial content, but I cannot name another class damage passive that is definitively as useless in that scope. The only one that springs to mind was the NB flanking pen passive, but even that got changed to something much more useful while Warden's got "buffed" by just increasing wasted stat.

There are quite a lot worse from a dd standpoint. Any passive relating to healing is useless on a 12-man dd. Tank/resistance passives are only mildly nice, and still somewhat pointless on 12-man dd. I think it’s unfair to judge a passive when it’s not being used in an environment suited for it. If you want warden to be viable, maybe start looking for mag-teams running light armor comps, or teams without EC. Or make one yourself honestly. Because, if we’re being honest, changing this passive will not make warden’s more META than beam bots, not with how things currently stand.

I do wish they’d not nerf Piercing Cold though, or at least give more frost damage skills. I do think Subclassing Mag Arc with frost flail might have potential with it, but still

Again, I said damage passives. Most "damage" trees do not have healing or defensive passives.

madmufffin

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

The buffs to Animal Comapnions is quite substantial and will stack very well with NB Assassination line. I run a stamden in my tri cores and it feels nice and I think it'll feel even better subclasses.

What buffs to animal companions? Crit damage? If your group doesn't have you crit damage capped already, something is wrong.

A few extra % of crit is still going to fit into your build smoothly and 8% more recovery is absolutely needed as the class is severely resource challenged in content.

Uh...no? If your group is even decent at major force uptime, and assuming you have all the buffs;

50% + 20% (Major) + 10% (Minor) + LE (11%) + EC (15%) + Medium Armor (~12-14%) = 118-120%

So you are grossly over cap before this change even if all you're running is bear and shalks. This is, at best, a tiny fractional gain when Major Force is down. Otherwise, it's completely meaningless and offers effectively nothing in any kind of functional, organized group content.

Which is why it was profoundly stupid to take this passive off of actual damage gain when they did it. The only stat that would make this passive less terrible would be crit, but they seem diametrically opposed to putting crit on anything that isn't a NB or that doesn't have stipulations like the necro passive, so whatever.

I mean that's still room for extra crit in your build. It's not a nothing passive and coupled with the recovery is actually a positive addition.

madmufffin

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

I admit I only read OP's post, but I just wanted to say that scribing added several sources of frost damage, and subclassing will give even more. It's not honest to pretend "wardens don't have valid frost damage skills" IMO...

I don't have an informed opinion yet on this change - want to see it in action before judging myself, but the removal of the health requirement is a good thing for me.

Comparatively speaking, scribing skills by and large do pretty garbage damage especially when compared to class skills. Yes, they have frost damage, but that doesn't make them good.

We've just been playing the game wrong and they're using this chance to guide us on the path of righteousness. I've already accepted their wisdom and implemented changes into my build.

MurkyWetWolf198

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Well, you missed some buffs like minor brittle in your calculation, but you are assuming that it’s an organized group, which many players don’t have.

Also, with Beam Builds as they are right now, Arcs are hitting crit cap without EC, so the Warden’s providing their own crit damage might become more valuable if EC stops being a sought after set.

Also also, Wardens are really nice in Solo/IA content, because they can run light armor, cover Maj/min breach, min vuln & off-balance while still hitting crit damage cap. The crit damage may not be optimal for 12 man or parse, but it’s got plenty of strength for 4-man and smaller

You're right, brittle skipped my mind, so it's actually even worse than I said lmao.

I agree that the passive can have use outside of organized trial content, but I cannot name another class damage passive that is definitively as useless in that scope. The only one that springs to mind was the NB flanking pen passive, but even that got changed to something much more useful while Warden's got "buffed" by just increasing wasted stat.

There are quite a lot worse from a dd standpoint. Any passive relating to healing is useless on a 12-man dd. Tank/resistance passives are only mildly nice, and still somewhat pointless on 12-man dd. I think it’s unfair to judge a passive when it’s not being used in an environment suited for it. If you want warden to be viable, maybe start looking for mag-teams running light armor comps, or teams without EC. Or make one yourself honestly. Because, if we’re being honest, changing this passive will not make warden’s more META than beam bots, not with how things currently stand.

I do wish they’d not nerf Piercing Cold though, or at least give more frost damage skills. I do think Subclassing Mag Arc with frost flail might have potential with it, but still

Again, I said damage passives. Most "damage" trees do not have healing or defensive passives.

That is quite incorrect, as many older classes barely have delegated dd/tank/heal skill lines. DKs had a useless snare until literally this patch, NB had some minor sustain tool on killing enemies, templars got minor protection and don’t even get me started on Sorcerers barely having a dd skill line at all
At least Warden’s ability is actually damage oriented lol

madmufffin

Having thought about it some and looked at a good parse I have on Oax, I think this could still be functional if they just bumped it up to 15%. On a stamden, about 35% of my damage was frost damage so at 15% that would more or less mitigate the loss of damage to the other skills and allow for an overall growth in damage with a more active effort to use frost skills.

Stx

Winters embrace is a “tank” skill tree. Every class has one.

By making this change, the intention is that only dps interested in frost damage would choose it. I agree there aren’t a lot of frost damage abilities for it to even make sense, but that’s really a separate issue. Warden as a class was designed poorly from the start. They wanted a Druid type character and a frost mage type and shoved them together.

Personally I am happy to replace winters embrace with something else on my warden as I play him very much like a nature caster / Druid.

madmufffin

Stx wrote: »

Winters embrace is a “tank” skill tree. Every class has one.

By making this change, the intention is that only dps interested in frost damage would choose it. I agree there aren’t a lot of frost damage abilities for it to even make sense, but that’s really a separate issue. Warden as a class was designed poorly from the start. They wanted a Druid type character and a frost mage type and shoved them together.

Personally I am happy to replace winters embrace with something else on my warden as I play him very much like a nature caster / Druid.

Yes it is the 'tank' line but a huge portion of the class' overall damage balance is reliant on the two passives in the line.

Renato90085

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote:

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from.

That's every class, if you're uncreative enough and obsessed enough with getting tiny numerical advantages.

Parses coming off the PTS today suggest that the advantages are not minor.

Those parses are because solar barrage is bugged

https://youtu.be/lwLv44bD9Lw?si=Ez346URMNAcERaMW

This is in-line with what people expected. I don't see what the issue is.

There are many issues, including that this is massive power creep and that these numbers are unattainable as a single class character.

Most people felt that we'd be approaching 170k this patch and still felt things were fine. You're reducing your survivability by 20%+ and more damage isn't just going to magically make people not stand in stupid. DPS has not been a gatekeeper for content for a while now.

Dps more high,we more save,because we can skip all thing can kill us,
And we really very tank in this patch(U45)when we have ozn and scribe buff my friend do sbs necro dps have 32k health my nb dps have 29k armor because I can use armor pot
So now we can skip all mech and just lost 3k health
Where are Dangerous？

madmufffin

Renato90085 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote:

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from.

That's every class, if you're uncreative enough and obsessed enough with getting tiny numerical advantages.

Parses coming off the PTS today suggest that the advantages are not minor.

Those parses are because solar barrage is bugged

https://youtu.be/lwLv44bD9Lw?si=Ez346URMNAcERaMW

This is in-line with what people expected. I don't see what the issue is.

There are many issues, including that this is massive power creep and that these numbers are unattainable as a single class character.

Most people felt that we'd be approaching 170k this patch and still felt things were fine. You're reducing your survivability by 20%+ and more damage isn't just going to magically make people not stand in stupid. DPS has not been a gatekeeper for content for a while now.

Dps more high,we more save,because we can skip all thing can kill us,
And we really very tank in this patch(U45)when we have ozn and scribe buff my friend do sbs necro dps have 32k health my nb dps have 29k armor because I can use armor pot
So now we can skip all mech and just lost 3k health
Where are Dangerous？

Damage was never the issue with our current patch either. People still have to have brains and click buttons well to not die on Ansuul, Taleria, all of vLC, etc. Yes higher damage helps reduce the number of mechs, but it's not gonna make people less stupid that already die to those mechs. Being squishier will make things even more punishing.

Renato90085

madmufffin wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote:

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from.

That's every class, if you're uncreative enough and obsessed enough with getting tiny numerical advantages.

Parses coming off the PTS today suggest that the advantages are not minor.

Those parses are because solar barrage is bugged

https://youtu.be/lwLv44bD9Lw?si=Ez346URMNAcERaMW

This is in-line with what people expected. I don't see what the issue is.

There are many issues, including that this is massive power creep and that these numbers are unattainable as a single class character.

Most people felt that we'd be approaching 170k this patch and still felt things were fine. You're reducing your survivability by 20%+ and more damage isn't just going to magically make people not stand in stupid. DPS has not been a gatekeeper for content for a while now.

Dps more high,we more save,because we can skip all thing can kill us,
And we really very tank in this patch(U45)when we have ozn and scribe buff my friend do sbs necro dps have 32k health my nb dps have 29k armor because I can use armor pot
So now we can skip all mech and just lost 3k health
Where are Dangerous？

Damage was never the issue with our current patch either. People still have to have brains and click buttons well to not die on Ansuul, Taleria, all of vLC, etc. Yes higher damage helps reduce the number of mechs, but it's not gonna make people less stupid that already die to those mechs. Being squishier will make things even more punishing.

3DD skill line mean sax and le is trash now,because crit dmg in anytime is full so maybe 1 day we will see tank or healer use def/res build (I still think never happen

Skjaldbjorn

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

That is quite incorrect, as many older classes barely have delegated dd/tank/heal skill lines. DKs had a useless snare until literally this patch, NB had some minor sustain tool on killing enemies, templars got minor protection and don’t even get me started on Sorcerers barely having a dd skill line at all
At least Warden’s ability is actually damage oriented lol

Uh...wut?

Sorc's Storm Calling tree is loaded with solid damage passives.

Increase phys and shock damage by 5% VS Increase frost damage by 10%

Reverse execute which no other class in the game has, wholly unique mechanic that's a huge damage boost for the first ~40%

Weapon/Spell damage by 2% per ability slotted vs crit damage from Warden

I'd take those Sorc passives all damn day over anything Warden passives provide.

MashmalloMan

I like it because in almost all the old versions of this passive they tried, none of them actually made frost skills stand out in a tangible way that you get with Sorc or DK. Eg. When comparing scribed skills in Frost or Flame, both appeared identical because they were, so how exactly were they the masters of ice? They either made the damage bonus to easy to proc (live version) or they made it set and forget with no actual buff to make frost skills useful (frost staff version).

I think the main issue here isn't the passive, because thematically this makes much more sense than the constant bandaids they've been doing over the years. It's the fact that pure 3/3 Wardens will feel jipped since the Companion skill line contains 0 frost damage.

If you asked me 3+ years ago, before the back and forth, it would always be keep the 10% frost DMG, remove the 10% mag DMG, add 10% bleed DMG, buff chilled damage and chance, then swap all the magic/poison DMG from the companion line to frost/bleed.

This way the class would have felt complete and reward players for the elements they're proficient in. Instead, they refused to change damage types, resulting in any mag DMG morphs to completely overshadow their bleed/poison counterparts due to hybridization and the previous 10% mag DMG bonus. They inevitabley got rid of it, but then went in a completely weird direction no one requested and now that subclassing is here, they can avoid the original solution entirely and just expect non frost Warden enthusiasts to drop the mixed line for a more DPS oriented one or keep it with a small nerf.

ZOS basically gave up on trying to make Warden/Sorc complete sets, we're asked to drop Daedric Summoning/Glacial Presence because we don't play the way they intended. Don't even get me started on all the mag DMG Sorc is littered with despite being specialized in Shock/Phys.. aka the "Storm mage" of the game. Dark Magic has become just as forgettable.

madmufffin

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I like it because in almost all the old versions of this passive they tried, none of them actually made frost skills stand out in a tangible way that you get with Sorc or DK. Eg. When comparing scribed skills in Frost or Flame, both appeared identical because they were, so how exactly were they the masters of ice? They either made the damage bonus to easy to proc (live version) or they made it set and forget with no actual buff to make frost skills useful (frost staff version).

I think the main issue here isn't the passive, because thematically this makes much more sense than the constant bandaids they've been doing over the years. It's the fact that pure 3/3 Wardens will feel jipped since the Companion skill line contains 0 frost damage.

If you asked me 3+ years ago, before the back and forth, it would always be keep the 10% frost DMG, remove the 10% mag DMG, add 10% bleed DMG, buff chilled damage and chance, then swap all the magic/poison DMG from the companion line to frost/bleed.

This way the class would have felt complete and reward players for the elements they're proficient in. Instead, they refused to change damage types, resulting in any mag DMG morphs to completely overshadow their bleed/poison counterparts due to hybridization and the previous 10% mag DMG bonus. They inevitabley got rid of it, but then went in a completely weird direction no one requested and now that subclassing is here, they can avoid the original solution entirely and just expect non frost Warden enthusiasts to drop the mixed line for a more DPS oriented one or keep it with a small nerf.

ZOS basically gave up on trying to make Warden/Sorc complete sets, we're asked to drop Daedric Summoning/Glacial Presence because we don't play the way they intended. Don't even get me started on all the mag DMG Sorc is littered with despite being specialized in Shock/Phys.. aka the "Storm mage" of the game. Dark Magic has become just as forgettable.

In what world do lightning skills stand out on Sorc. None of the currently viable sorc build use any form of lightning damage

lPeacekeeperl

"Congratulations" fella wardens, we got more nerfs

Polar Wind: Increased the self-healing over time of this ability by 11.1%. Reduced the healing of the ally targeted portion of this ability by ~33.3%. The ally targeted heal no longer applies a heal over time.

madmufffin

lPeacekeeperl wrote: »

"Congratulations" fella wardens, we got more nerfs

Polar Wind: Increased the self-healing over time of this ability by 11.1%. Reduced the healing of the ally targeted portion of this ability by ~33.3%. The ally targeted heal no longer applies a heal over time.

PVP change mainly, but Winter's Embrace will be very popular on one PVE tank which makes this a bit annoying.

Stx

Now they just need to revert that horrible change to Winters Revenge where you get 30% more damage for using a specific weapon type which isn’t seen on any other skill in the game and goes completely against the build freedom theme of this game.