Oops you did it again (Warden nonsense)

Skjaldbjorn · April 14

This must be the 10th time the Warden DPS passive has been changed. From flat damage to increased flat damage to reduced flat damage to penetration to crit damage and then altered to buff frost staves. FINALLY, someone at Zos figured out this was bad, and gave the class back flat damage. Now, we've removed that once again for...frost damage? You mean the two DPS skills in the kit that actually do frost damage?

Meanwhile, DK gets 5% to all flame and poison abilities, which is effectively every skill they have.

What the actual hell is the goal here? Where is the direction?

madmufffin · April 14

I think the assumption here is with subclassing this skill tree will only be run for tanks or someone looking to cheese out some free damage from chill procs. Chill damage will be monstrous with the glacial presence changes and this just pushes it further while neurering the rest of the benefit for the class' kit.

Reginald_leBlem · April 14

I guess if you use the 2 (or is it 3?) necro skills that use frost damage they also get a buff?

Still a long ways short of a full kit.

Skjaldbjorn · April 14

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

I guess if you use the 2 (or is it 3?) necro skills that use frost damage they also get a buff?

Still a long ways short of a full kit.

Necro's frost damage is only boneyard, embrace and the colo ult. So basically boneyard and embrace, and you'd have to take two necro trees to do that, so that isn't even plausible. Unless you start cro and just run the one warden line, but that is also terrible.

Skjaldbjorn · April 14

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from. Frost Damage for a Chilled cheese build? We got it. Free block mitigation? We got it. Minor toughness for every healer? We got it.

There is literally no reason I can see to play a Warden in any meaningful way.

madmufffin · April 14

The buffs to Animal Comapnions is quite substantial and will stack very well with NB Assassination line. I run a stamden in my tri cores and it feels nice and I think it'll feel even better subclasses.

Skjaldbjorn · April 14

madmufffin wrote: »

The buffs to Animal Comapnions is quite substantial and will stack very well with NB Assassination line. I run a stamden in my tri cores and it feels nice and I think it'll feel even better subclasses.

What buffs to animal companions? Crit damage? If your group doesn't have you crit damage capped already, something is wrong.

ESO_player123 · April 14

I'm no expert by any means here, but I might like this for my frost warden with frost staff.

Skjaldbjorn · April 14

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I'm no expert by any means here, but I might like this for my frost warden with frost staff.

Yeah, but it's functionally actually worse than the old version they had. That gave a flat 12% damage buff to all damage with a frost staff equipped. This is just a grossly inferior version of that.

ESO_player123 · April 14

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I'm no expert by any means here, but I might like this for my frost warden with frost staff.

Yeah, but it's functionally actually worse than the old version they had. That gave a flat 12% damage buff to all damage with a frost staff equipped. This is just a grossly inferior version of that.

You mean the one that was some time ago? Well, that is gone. Now, I might have at least some for one of my favorite alts.

Skjaldbjorn · April 14

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

I'm no expert by any means here, but I might like this for my frost warden with frost staff.

Yeah, but it's functionally actually worse than the old version they had. That gave a flat 12% damage buff to all damage with a frost staff equipped. This is just a grossly inferior version of that.

You mean the one that was some time ago? Well, that is gone. Now, I might have at least some for one of my favorite alts.

I don't think folks are really grasping how bad this passive is. Even if you run a frost staff and run reach as your spammable, most of your skills don't benefit at all. 8% to all your damage is vastly superior to 10% of like...a third of your kit.

Alaztor91 · April 14

The direction now seems to be that if you don't like something in your Class you will have to use another skill tree via subclass.

''Play How You We Want''

tsaescishoeshiner · April 14

Between the Chilled status effect passive and this, it's cool to have it as essentially a frost skill line. I think it could use a little more given that not every build will make use of Chilled as much, frost staves still have tank passives, and this skill line only has two DPS skills.

ESO_Nightingale · April 14

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Between the Chilled status effect passive and this, it's cool to have it as essentially a frost skill line. I think it could use a little more given that not every build will make use of Chilled as much, frost staves still have tank passives, and this skill line only has two DPS skills.

i see much reason to rework some additional skill morphs now.

ESO_Nightingale · April 14

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

This must be the 10th time the Warden DPS passive has been changed. From flat damage to increased flat damage to reduced flat damage to penetration to crit damage and then altered to buff frost staves. FINALLY, someone at Zos figured out this was bad, and gave the class back flat damage. Now, we've removed that once again for...frost damage? You mean the two DPS skills in the kit that actually do frost damage?

Meanwhile, DK gets 5% to all flame and poison abilities, which is effectively every skill they have.

What the actual hell is the goal here? Where is the direction?

i think the direction is intended for frost dps and tanking exclusively. the line feels more seperated from warden now so i think their intention is for you to swap out the line because you don't want it since you don't want increased frost damage and chilled proc.

Marto · April 14

Skjaldbjorn wrote:

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from.

That's every class, if you're uncreative enough and obsessed enough with getting tiny numerical advantages.

katorga · April 14

Alaztor91 wrote: »

The direction now seems to be that if you don't like something in your Class you will have to use another skill tree via subclass.

''Play How You We Want''

Sorcerer says Hi:

General Skill Line: We’re removing the separation of a pet vs no pet build in this skill line now that sub-classing is here. Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole. Many abilities in this skill line have been adjusted with this in mind.

Alaztor91 · April 14

katorga wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

The direction now seems to be that if you don't like something in your Class you will have to use another skill tree via subclass.

''Play How You We Want''

Sorcerer says Hi:

General Skill Line: We’re removing the separation of a pet vs no pet build in this skill line now that sub-classing is here. Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole. Many abilities in this skill line have been adjusted with this in mind.

Half of the patch notes could be summarized into ''We are doing X to this skill/passive now that sub-classing is here''. Imagine telling players that have been playing Sorc for 10+ Years to ''just replace this skill line''. What if someone doesn't want to subclass, are they just screwed from now on? Because it certainly looks like the stuff that made your Class special is starting to be neutered/homogenized ''now that sub-classing is here''.

ESO_player123 · April 14

Alaztor91 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

The direction now seems to be that if you don't like something in your Class you will have to use another skill tree via subclass.

''Play How You We Want''

Sorcerer says Hi:

General Skill Line: We’re removing the separation of a pet vs no pet build in this skill line now that sub-classing is here. Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole. Many abilities in this skill line have been adjusted with this in mind.

Half of the patch notes could be summarized into ''We are doing X to this skill/passive now that sub-classing is here''. Imagine telling players that have been playing Sorc for 10+ Years to ''just replace this skill line''. What if someone doesn't want to subclass, are they just screwed from now on? Because it certainly looks like the stuff that made your Class special is starting to be neutered/homogenized ''now that sub-classing is here''.

That is my concern as well. While I'm definitely going to try subclassing on my main (which is a Sorc) and one alt (frost warden), I was hoping to keep many of my alts intact. It looks like if I do that they we suffer damage reductions due to various nerfs.

madmufffin · April 14

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

The buffs to Animal Comapnions is quite substantial and will stack very well with NB Assassination line. I run a stamden in my tri cores and it feels nice and I think it'll feel even better subclasses.

What buffs to animal companions? Crit damage? If your group doesn't have you crit damage capped already, something is wrong.

A few extra % of crit is still going to fit into your build smoothly and 8% more recovery is absolutely needed as the class is severely resource challenged in content.

alpha_synuclein · April 14

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Half of the patch notes could be summarized into ''We are doing X to this skill/passive now that sub-classing is here''. Imagine telling players that have been playing Sorc for 10+ Years to ''just replace this skill line''. What if someone doesn't want to subclass, are they just screwed from now on?

Yes.

Dalsinthus · April 14

Alaztor91 wrote: »

The direction now seems to be that if you don't like something in your Class you will have to use another skill tree via subclass.

''Play How You We Want''

Yeah this sort of change dispels any notion that it's going to be viable to stay as a single class character.

I really hate this new direction, but it's coming and so I guess it's get on board or get bent.

Dalsinthus · April 14

Marto wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote:

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from.

That's every class, if you're uncreative enough and obsessed enough with getting tiny numerical advantages.

Parses coming off the PTS today suggest that the advantages are not minor.

madmufffin · April 14

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote:

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from.

That's every class, if you're uncreative enough and obsessed enough with getting tiny numerical advantages.

Parses coming off the PTS today suggest that the advantages are not minor.

Those parses are because solar barrage is bugged

Markytous · April 14

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

The direction now seems to be that if you don't like something in your Class you will have to use another skill tree via subclass.

''Play How You We Want''

Yeah this sort of change dispels any notion that it's going to be viable to stay as a single class character.

I really hate this new direction, but it's coming and so I guess it's get on board or get bent.

This also affects only some of the classes. I hope that this doesn't imply that some less performing classes will just be left in the dust and told to just grab Storm Calling or Shadow Skill Lines to fix their issues...

madmufffin · April 14

Looping back on this, but with the changes to glacial presence, the Winter's Embrace skill line could've been a very valuable add to many kits had piercing cold not been massacred. As it is now, it'll never be slotted on anything other than tanks.

Markytous · April 14

madmufffin wrote: »

Looping back on this, but with the changes to glacial presence, the Winter's Embrace skill line could've been a very valuable add to many kits had piercing cold not been massacred. As it is now, it'll never be slotted on anything other than tanks.

Yep 100%. The skill lines are now being enforced exactly as you say. It is now a "Tank" skill line for sure. I expect this to be enforced from here on out. Come to think of it now, the class system post-subclass reminds me of the "Runes" system in modern League of Legends. Not sure how I feel about that because, well, Elder Scrolls has always been pretty open-ended with character fantasy.

Dalsinthus · April 14

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote:

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from.

That's every class, if you're uncreative enough and obsessed enough with getting tiny numerical advantages.

Parses coming off the PTS today suggest that the advantages are not minor.

Those parses are because solar barrage is bugged

https://youtu.be/lwLv44bD9Lw?si=Ez346URMNAcERaMW

Hat tip to @AdmiralDigby

madmufffin · April 14

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote:

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from.

That's every class, if you're uncreative enough and obsessed enough with getting tiny numerical advantages.

Parses coming off the PTS today suggest that the advantages are not minor.

Those parses are because solar barrage is bugged

https://youtu.be/lwLv44bD9Lw?si=Ez346URMNAcERaMW

This is in-line with what people expected. I don't see what the issue is.

Dalsinthus · April 14

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote:

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from.

That's every class, if you're uncreative enough and obsessed enough with getting tiny numerical advantages.

Parses coming off the PTS today suggest that the advantages are not minor.

Those parses are because solar barrage is bugged

https://youtu.be/lwLv44bD9Lw?si=Ez346URMNAcERaMW

This is in-line with what people expected. I don't see what the issue is.

There are many issues, including that this is massive power creep and that these numbers are unattainable as a single class character.

madmufffin · April 14

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote:

To me, this feels like Warden is just going to be a yard sale for other classes to take from.

That's every class, if you're uncreative enough and obsessed enough with getting tiny numerical advantages.

Parses coming off the PTS today suggest that the advantages are not minor.

Those parses are because solar barrage is bugged

https://youtu.be/lwLv44bD9Lw?si=Ez346URMNAcERaMW

This is in-line with what people expected. I don't see what the issue is.

There are many issues, including that this is massive power creep and that these numbers are unattainable as a single class character.

Most people felt that we'd be approaching 170k this patch and still felt things were fine. You're reducing your survivability by 20%+ and more damage isn't just going to magically make people not stand in stupid. DPS has not been a gatekeeper for content for a while now.