Dungeon runs are worse than ever before

Icy_Waffles · February 3

It’s grinding xp for many. With the event and and double xp, many try to run as many characters through randoms as they can during the event.

shezof · February 3

the comments here are absurd. stop being so casual. if you want a certain experience get a group together. use group finder join a guild get friends. this is an mmo.

Random dungeon is RANDOM

moo_2021 · February 3

DenverRalphy wrote: »

If ZOS were to drop the RND crystals reward to a random 1-3 Transmute Geode and give a noticeable boost to the XP gain in the form of monster kill XP, you'd still have enough incentive for players to do the RND. Crystal farmers would gravitate to the Random Vet, and there'd still be enough willing participants for the Random Normal.

XP gain is useless after you reach a certain CP.

would not do random vet since DLC vets are too difficult.

griffkhalifa · February 3

They need to just give the skill point for completing the dungeon -- not the quest. It's just a poorly thought out way to plan group content where completing the quest is reliant on your random group mates not doing a dungeon quickly.

Orbital78 · February 3

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

It’s grinding xp for many. With the event and and double xp, many try to run as many characters through randoms as they can during the event.

that was my leveling method years ago until I burnt out on it and left the game for another for a year or so.

DenverRalphy · February 3

moo_2021 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

If ZOS were to drop the RND crystals reward to a random 1-3 Transmute Geode and give a noticeable boost to the XP gain in the form of monster kill XP, you'd still have enough incentive for players to do the RND. Crystal farmers would gravitate to the Random Vet, and there'd still be enough willing participants for the Random Normal.

XP gain is useless after you reach a certain CP.

would not do random vet since DLC vets are too difficult.

There are more than enough players always grinding XP. As long as Aetherial/Mythic Aetherial Ambrosias are hot items on the Traders, there's no shortage of players grinding XP.

As for why you wouldn't do random vet, that's something to be fixed on your end.

kwinter · February 3

Speed running is not just a ESO issue. The same thing happens in other games including WOW. The big issue with ESO is trying to get the quest done because you either are waiting to get quest or in some of early dungeons need stop and talk to someone during the run. Example running random normal I also missed quest maker because it took minutes to appear had to wait for npc to stop talking

Orbital78 · February 3

Trying to do Vaults of Madness or Selene's with pugs was dog water. VoM could use a dialog auto update.

Desiato · February 3

I'll point out again, ZOS could EASILY solve the quest skill point related stress by changing the few dungeons that are affected so that each stage of the quest is autocompleted so that the quest can always be completed at the end of the dungeon.

I can't believe they haven't done it yet!! It should be the kind of thing an intern could do in an afternoon. They could solve SO MUCH PAIN so easily.

Elsonso · February 4

Desiato wrote: »

I'll point out again, ZOS could EASILY solve the quest skill point related stress by changing the few dungeons that are affected so that each stage of the quest is autocompleted so that the quest can always be completed at the end of the dungeon.

I can't believe they haven't done it yet!!

Count me among those who think they should have done this already.

Case in point... The need to wait while Keeper Cirion casually strolls across the room and gives a speech should have been removed from the game years ago. All of the dungeon quests like that need to be redesigned.

blktauna · February 4

Desiato wrote: »

I'll point out again, ZOS could EASILY solve the quest skill point related stress by changing the few dungeons that are affected so that each stage of the quest is autocompleted so that the quest can always be completed at the end of the dungeon.

I can't believe they haven't done it yet!! It should be the kind of thing an intern could do in an afternoon. They could solve SO MUCH PAIN so easily.

Or do like they have in FG. You can't pass the door until the boss is killed, only make flags for quest interactions as well. Someone in group has the quest, that tree becomes active and those items need to be completed to advance.

colossalvoids · February 4

blktauna wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I'll point out again, ZOS could EASILY solve the quest skill point related stress by changing the few dungeons that are affected so that each stage of the quest is autocompleted so that the quest can always be completed at the end of the dungeon.

I can't believe they haven't done it yet!! It should be the kind of thing an intern could do in an afternoon. They could solve SO MUCH PAIN so easily.

Or do like they have in FG. You can't pass the door until the boss is killed, only make flags for quest interactions as well. Someone in group has the quest, that tree becomes active and those items need to be completed to advance.

Not sure why risk bricking the run with stuck in combat or absent/slow players whilst auto quest stage completion literally solves an issue without any negatives possible.

BXR_Lonestar · February 4

Look dude, your probably not going to like what I have to say, but this is the reality of the situation: dungeons are meant to be run over and over and over again, and after you have done the quest once, there is ZERO incentive to take your time to crawl through the dungeon for someone else. In fact, the game even has achievements for speed runs for crying out loud, so this content, in fact, rewards players with an achievement for running the dungeons fast. And I don't see how the game could track something like slow walking a dungeon so someone else can complete the quest. So from a developer side of things, there really is no solution to this issue.

From the player side, there IS a solution: make friends, join a guild, and play with people who are like minded or who are courteous enough to go through the dungeon with you at your own pace. There are players like that out there, but you are FAR LESS likely to meet them in the random que, where you will more often run into players who just want to get the content done and over with and move on to something else. This is an MMO afterall.

joergino · February 4

Speed runs only exist in veteran dungeons, so I don't quite understand what they have to do with obliterating any chances of getting a quest done for players in the random normal dungeon queue.

AzuraFan · February 4

joergino wrote: »

Speed runs only exist in veteran dungeons, so I don't quite understand what they have to do with obliterating any chances of getting a quest done for players in the random normal dungeon queue.

By speedrunning we're not talking about getting the achievement in vet. We're talking about when a player in a random group runs ahead, bypassing all the mobs to get to the next boss. This pulls every player to the boss due to the "joining encounter in progress" mechanic. It's annoying for the rest of the group and not necessary in normal, where it's actually faster (and safer, since some speedrunners die) to kill the mobs. In some dungeons, the speedrunner prevents others in the group from progressing the quest.

joergino · February 4

The post before my reply was specifically talking about speed run achievements and used this as their justification for preventing other players' progress.

AzuraFan · February 4

joergino wrote: »

The post before my reply was specifically talking about speed run achievements and used this as their justification for preventing other players' progress.

Oh, okay. I misunderstood.

(It always helps to quote what you're responding to because the forum remembers where you are in a thread and takes you right to the first post you haven't yet read. Because of that, I didn't see the post above you because I'd already read it.)

Amottica · February 4

DenverRalphy wrote: »

KekwLord3000 wrote: »

Transmutes are locked behind daily RND, that's why there will always be dungeon rushers.
Sure we get 25 from ROTW once per day, but still it's once and very little amount of ppl actually PVP, so they don't even get those transmutes.
If zos takes out transmutes from rnd's the que will just die nothing you can do I'm afraid.

Transmute crystals aren't locked behind the RND. There are other avenues of getting Transmute crystals. RVD drops crystals too. BG's. Trials. etc..

If ZOS were to drop the RND crystals reward to a random 1-3 Transmute Geode and give a noticeable boost to the XP gain in the form of monster kill XP, you'd still have enough incentive for players to do the RND. Crystal farmers would gravitate to the Random Vet, and there'd still be enough willing participants for the Random Normal.

Not really.

At best, it would trash the queue for vet dungeons since many players cannot handle that difficulty level. There are already a lot of players that queue for vet and are nowhere near the skill level required. I am talking about base game vet dungeons.

So those in the normal dungeon runs for XP would be fine. Many of those farming crystals would be out of luck. Zenimax understands this, which is why the rewards are as they are.

Orbital78 · February 5

Amottica wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

KekwLord3000 wrote: »

Transmutes are locked behind daily RND, that's why there will always be dungeon rushers.
Sure we get 25 from ROTW once per day, but still it's once and very little amount of ppl actually PVP, so they don't even get those transmutes.
If zos takes out transmutes from rnd's the que will just die nothing you can do I'm afraid.

Transmute crystals aren't locked behind the RND. There are other avenues of getting Transmute crystals. RVD drops crystals too. BG's. Trials. etc..

If ZOS were to drop the RND crystals reward to a random 1-3 Transmute Geode and give a noticeable boost to the XP gain in the form of monster kill XP, you'd still have enough incentive for players to do the RND. Crystal farmers would gravitate to the Random Vet, and there'd still be enough willing participants for the Random Normal.

Not really.

At best, it would trash the queue for vet dungeons since many players cannot handle that difficulty level. There are already a lot of players that queue for vet and are nowhere near the skill level required. I am talking about base game vet dungeons.

So those in the normal dungeon runs for XP would be fine. Many of those farming crystals would be out of luck. Zenimax understands this, which is why the rewards are as they are.

Agreed, vet queues tend to have less bad/fakes but just one can trash the groups chances of clearing. Vets tend to take a long time to fill as well. If you cannot find a guild/friend to fill you can often times end up disbanding before you get a fill.

If they added small geodes to side bosses, that might actually entice people to clear the whole dungeon but I doubt it. I don't usually do dungeons for the geodes (unless they boosted them to 15-25 or 50). Even then, with all these events I don't have a shortage of transmutes and potent nirncrux isn't really worth much on pc-na anymore.

silentxthreat · February 5

stop making us talk to npc's with long rp and kill orders would solve this. accept quest complete dungeon then it doesnt matter if a very geared person pulls the whole place

averyfarmanb14_ESO · February 5

One of the reasons why I simply don't PUG. I've played for years, and it's hamstrung my progress a bit, but I'd rather enjoy the game and not worry about it. Luckily, I'm in a guild that has regular "events" for dungeons and trials, so I can opt in and play with folks I know and enjoy the trip in the process.

BXR_Lonestar · February 5

joergino wrote: »

Speed runs only exist in veteran dungeons, so I don't quite understand what they have to do with obliterating any chances of getting a quest done for players in the random normal dungeon queue.

Farming. Or they just want to get their bonus xp to level up a skill. Or both. Or maybe they want their 10 tranny gems and they don't want to go into PVP?

smallhammer · February 5

Just put in a category for those who wish to take the time to do the quests. I never do dungeons anymore, just for this

kind_hero · February 5

I was in the same boat yesterday, trying to do a daily dungeon to complete the set I wanted.

I did lots of dungeons when the cp system was new. However, back then you couldn't really speed up so much, because trash mobs didn't die like it happens now on normal content.

Yesterday I had players running ahead, pulling everything up to the locked gate of the next boss, creating chaos, leaving some players lost in the dungeon, only to be pulled in the boss fight.

If I were a new player, I would stop playing ESO.

My opinion is that such behavior happens because the content has became too easy. Many trash pulls can be soloed, even bosses. This is the issue. The dungeons were quite fun 10-8 years ago. Now there is a big difficulty gap between normal and veteran hard modes. People like the OP mentioned wouldn't speed run if they were killed by the first trash pack. Also, this difficulty should be the norm for a 4 player dungeon (I mean you shouldn't be able to solo a pack of trash mobs in a 4 man dungeon) and this would make people communicate, help each other and make friends. This is how I made my friends in WoW, back in vanilla days, when leveling and gearing up took a lot of time. Now, I am not saying ESO dungeons should be hard like in the "good old days", but you get the idea.

I am not sure I like the story mode idea. It doesn't solve the issue with speedrunners and people who use all sorts of glitchy shortcuts that make other players get stuck or die, ruining the 4 man dungeon experience. It is a 4 man dungeon, not a delve, and a lot of encounter design would be wasted in story mode. I would move the story element before the dungeon is started, and give the conclusion when it's completed.

surfcat · February 5

If it is that bad, just vote to remove.

Orbital78 · February 5

surfcat wrote: »

If it is that bad, just vote to remove.

a good option if a replacement would fill in a timely manner, no normal it is a non-issue for most groups since a companion will usually suffice or just 3 man.

GloatingSwine · February 5

It's an inevitable consequence of making the dungeons a daily activity where the only reward is killing the final boss.

Absolute guarantee that everyone else in the dungeon has done that exact dungeon 4000 times and is only there for the daily and the only part of the daily that gives them anything is the final boss kill.

Either the dailies need to be structured around a more thorough progression, requiring a kill threshold along the way so there's not the incentive to just cheese it past everything, or a system like Duty Support where Undaunted NPCs can join you for a solo dungeon run (which maybe only has the quest and not the boss drops).

WhisperLFE · February 5

Yeah, I understand the frustration, but the only viable and fair dungeon finder solution I can think of is to add an option for something like "quest run" or "non-speed run." Although it'd probably make the already long damage dealer queues even longer.

In the near term, best solution is probably just a pre-made group. Join a guild and ask if anyone wants to do a normal-paced dungeon run. There'd probably be some takers.

puertoniko · February 5

shezof wrote: »

the comments here are absurd. stop being so casual. if you want a certain experience get a group together. use group finder join a guild get friends. this is an mmo.

Random dungeon is RANDOM

THIS!

wolfie1.0. · February 5

tom6143346 wrote: »

Rnd normal = basically story mode , at least all non dlc dungeons you can solo them even under level 50 , sorry but that just the way it is . I’m excited to see how people will deal with increased overland .

You shouldn't be.

At least not until we know exactly how they plan on changing said content.