PTS Update 45 - Feedback Thread for Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)

CameraBeardThePirate

Look, I understand the focus on performance @ZOS_Kevin , but this feels like another Sacrificial Bones situation, where you say "we'll focus on balancing it later" and then never adjust it again.

If the environment isn't remotely balanced, you aren't going to get good data when the test goes live, because no one will want to play it.

Necro with no blastbones, Sorc with no spammable, etc make these classes impossible to play, meaning players that enjoy those classes will likely not even join the test environment.

Sure, performance is great to focus on right now, and it makes sense to ensure the campaign functions correctly first and foremost, but you cannot expect to get the population needed for good data if the test campaign goes live with the biggest power gap the classes have ever seen.

Tommy_The_Gun

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Nightblade, in particular, still has Cloak... but there is no mechanism for stealth detection available in the game mode. Like, WHAT?!

That may be a bit problematic true, but the more I think about, it it may not be as bad as it seems. It will require some testing. Of course, ideally, there SHOULD be a way to detect hidden players, but I have a feeling that hidden player in vengeance mode won't be anywhere near close to the same power level what hidden player is on regular PvP.

It seems like they tried to counter-effect this by adding 4 second cooldown on cloak (yes, it works like old cloak with cast), but you can't chain-cast it since it has a cooldown, so no "perma cloak". At best, you can combo vengeance cloak with crouch stealth... but you move slowly & can be seen if some one is too close as there is no stealth boosting passives.

I do wonder if they also did not changed what interrupts cloak to simplify it a bit (I have not tested it yet), since for whatever reason it has a heal, which may indicate that even AOE DOT could interrupt it.

Anyway, does any vengeance class has Direct damage AOE skill ? Those can break cloak on live server. I know Vengeance NB has Drain Power that seems to be Direct damage AOE, so it should remove cloak. It seems like if you have any AOE that deals direct damage (and possibly DOT - requires testing) - it should work & should be quite effective vs melee NBs.

It will be harder vs ranged players, but since there are no passives that will boost your range, it is like 28m at most. And gap closers can be used to get there fast I guess.

It is gonna be totally different game vs what we have now. We may use what we know as a "base", but for the most part a lot of things will be totally different in this test mode.

xylena_lazarow

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

you cannot expect to get the population needed for good data if the test campaign goes live with the biggest power gap the classes have ever seen.

Especially if it's NB as the S tier class again, players are gonna nope out fast.

TheAwesomeChimpanzee

I sincerely hope that neither the players nor the developers are overly concerned about balancing these changes right now because they could straight-up kill PvP if implemented in their current form. Theorycrafting has always been a cornerstone of the MMO experience in ESO, and removing sets altogether feels like a betrayal of the creative freedom that has defined the game for years. Without sets or additional weapon skill lines, the sense of individuality and diversity in playstyles will be severely diminished.

MMOs thrive on progression, farming gear, earning achievements, and playing and grinding new content are core aspects of the experience. Stripping these elements away in PvP makes the grind to level 50 feel trivial, as that's all you would need to do to participate. You wouldn't have to farm weapons, play new content, engage with updates, or even acquire sets, essentially removing the MMO progression from the MMO experience. It would reduce PvP to a state where reaching level 50 is enough, with no further incentive to engage with the broader game systems. This approach completely undermines the essence of PvP in ESO, where gear, skills, and theorycrafting define success and individuality.

If these changes are purely for testing performance, specifically to identify and address the causes of lag in Cyrodiil, then it’s understandable as a temporary experiment. However, the concern is that such drastic adjustments could pave the way for permanent implementations. Even if these changes improve performance, the cost would be too great, essentially killing Cyrodiil.

The developers need to find a balance between optimizing performance and preserving the systems that make ESO special. Instead of removing sets and skills entirely, it might be more effective to target specific lag-causing mechanics or scenarios while keeping the creative depth and rewards of the game intact. Players need reasons to engage with the game’s content, and PvP without progression or customization would strip away much of that incentive. If implemented long-term, this approach risks alienating the very community that has kept the alliance war alive for years.

Joy_Division

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hey @acastanza_ESO, we understand why the balance topics you are calling out are important to you. We want to stress that for PTS specifically, this is a functionality test only, ahead of the live test and the test overall is designed to prioritize game performance to see what is possible. For this functionality test on the PTS, we are focused on the questions in the first post. Remember, the core point of this test is to see how Cyrodiil performs overall in a barebones environment, rather than on class kit focus.

@ZOS_Kevin

I get the logic .

But try to see things from our perspective.

For 10+ years we've heard this sort of message: don't worry, that's on the table, we're getting to it, it's coming, but we just want to see something else for right now.

And what we're asking for/want never comes.

ZOS right now has a tiny combat team already behind on projects that were started years ago like hybridization, promised "we'll get it its" (Templars, Necromancer Blighed blastbones,, et al.), the supposed Reddit Ask us anything offer that came out after the BG live stream other stuff. So there is a zero percent chance that I believe the sort of template imbalances that are currently on the PTS, which ZOS had months - years - to give us in a workable state that might be fun to actually test, will be significantly different that when Vengeance drops live. I don;t believe that at all.

We have been telling ZOS for years that meh specs are crutching hard on proc sets, scribed skills, borderline exploits to compete and here we still are. All is this is unavailable for Vengeance right? Just how am I supposed to be motivated to test a crappy spec I've been playing for years when I know nothing will change and I can;t cover up for poor balance by wearing OP gear? I already know this Vengeance campaign will only be worth playing if these templates are reasonably balanced, and here we are on day 1 of the PTS being provided with unbalanced templates.

Regardless of why

Does ZOS honestly think the classes are decently balanced so that's why we see no changes?
Does ZOS devote so little resources into combat balance that they do know, but just haven't gotten around to it?

It doesn't matter because what @acastanza_ESO is saying, whose judgement I trust, is my #1 concern for this Vengeance campaign.

YandereGirlfriend

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Nightblade, in particular, still has Cloak... but there is no mechanism for stealth detection available in the game mode. Like, WHAT?!

That may be a bit problematic true, but the more I think about, it it may not be as bad as it seems. It will require some testing. Of course, ideally, there SHOULD be a way to detect hidden players, but I have a feeling that hidden player in vengeance mode won't be anywhere near close to the same power level what hidden player is on regular PvP.

It seems like they tried to counter-effect this by adding 4 second cooldown on cloak (yes, it works like old cloak with cast), but you can't chain-cast it since it has a cooldown, so no "perma cloak". At best, you can combo vengeance cloak with crouch stealth... but you move slowly & can be seen if some one is too close as there is no stealth boosting passives.

I do wonder if they also did not changed what interrupts cloak to simplify it a bit (I have not tested it yet), since for whatever reason it has a heal, which may indicate that even AOE DOT could interrupt it.

Anyway, does any vengeance class has Direct damage AOE skill ? Those can break cloak on live server. I know Vengeance NB has Drain Power that seems to be Direct damage AOE, so it should remove cloak. It seems like if you have any AOE that deals direct damage (and possibly DOT - requires testing) - it should work & should be quite effective vs melee NBs.

It will be harder vs ranged players, but since there are no passives that will boost your range, it is like 28m at most. And gap closers can be used to get there fast I guess.

It is gonna be totally different game vs what we have now. We may use what we know as a "base", but for the most part a lot of things will be totally different in this test mode.

Cloak with no means of detection should be a HARD no-go as the only potential counterplay is to waste your own resources randomly spamming AOE damage abilities in the hopes that you somehow manage to guess their location correctly. And then adding the big self-heal on top of that easily makes it the most overtuned single button press in the entire Vengeance campaign.

And then imagine fighting a ranged NB as a Necro that has no access to either Expedition, a Stun or a gap-close. It's like in Civilization when you're fighting Bronze Age spearmen with X-Com Squads.

Soarora

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

• Do characters properly zone into Cyrodiil with templatized Stats and Gear?

I'm a bit confused on the gear front. The set bonuses are red and disabled, but is the gear entirely disabled? Why do we have weapons in our inventory if we still have our weapons from the real world? The enchants from my gear seem to not be adding to the stats, but the visual language is confusing to me since its just the set bonuses that are red. For instance, my ice staff does 1335 damage, but the one provided does 739. Does this mean that my real staff would do more light attack damage, or less because its disabled?

As for leaving and entering, everything seems fine whether it's using the wayshrine, porting to imperial city, or force closing the game using task manager.

Kickimanjaro

On most of my characters, I zoned in fine but on one of my Arcanists I had all my gear from outside still visible. I could unequip items and they would appear in my inventory within Cyrodiil and I could re-equip them. However, my stats appeared identical to all my other characters, so I suspect it was just a visual bug.

ZOS_Kevin

@Kickimanjaro Just checked in with the team and what you are experiencing with the Arcanist is working as intended. You should still see your gear from outside of the campaign while you are in it. It should just be the visual applied while the stats reflect what is given in the campaign. Can you check your other characters and see if that is working properly there as well? Just want to make sure there isn't something incorrectly happening with the other characters.

Tommy_The_Gun

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Nightblade, in particular, still has Cloak... but there is no mechanism for stealth detection available in the game mode. Like, WHAT?!

That may be a bit problematic true, but the more I think about, it it may not be as bad as it seems. It will require some testing. Of course, ideally, there SHOULD be a way to detect hidden players, but I have a feeling that hidden player in vengeance mode won't be anywhere near close to the same power level what hidden player is on regular PvP.

It seems like they tried to counter-effect this by adding 4 second cooldown on cloak (yes, it works like old cloak with cast), but you can't chain-cast it since it has a cooldown, so no "perma cloak". At best, you can combo vengeance cloak with crouch stealth... but you move slowly & can be seen if some one is too close as there is no stealth boosting passives.

I do wonder if they also did not changed what interrupts cloak to simplify it a bit (I have not tested it yet), since for whatever reason it has a heal, which may indicate that even AOE DOT could interrupt it.

Anyway, does any vengeance class has Direct damage AOE skill ? Those can break cloak on live server. I know Vengeance NB has Drain Power that seems to be Direct damage AOE, so it should remove cloak. It seems like if you have any AOE that deals direct damage (and possibly DOT - requires testing) - it should work & should be quite effective vs melee NBs.

It will be harder vs ranged players, but since there are no passives that will boost your range, it is like 28m at most. And gap closers can be used to get there fast I guess.

It is gonna be totally different game vs what we have now. We may use what we know as a "base", but for the most part a lot of things will be totally different in this test mode.

Cloak with no means of detection should be a HARD no-go as the only potential counterplay is to waste your own resources randomly spamming AOE damage abilities in the hopes that you somehow manage to guess their location correctly. And then adding the big self-heal on top of that easily makes it the most overtuned single button press in the entire Vengeance campaign.

And then imagine fighting a ranged NB as a Necro that has no access to either Expedition, a Stun or a gap-close. It's like in Civilization when you're fighting Bronze Age spearmen with X-Com Squads.

I think you could still use Lighting Form and it will automatically zap cloaked NB that is too close. Again, NB won't be able to stay invisible for longer than 3 seconds, as cloak has longer cooldown in this mode. Stealth =/= invisibility, and NB that would want to stay hidden will have to use crouch stealth, so in theory you won't even need detection to deal with NBs (again, crouch stealth will be easy to deal with as there are no passives that boost it) . Also Daedric Curse will always work.

Personally, my biggest concern when it comes to this test is that Ball Groups may not participate in it. Think of it. There is no other skills than class skills and very little skills are AOE healing & shields. And those that do have AOE healing have target cap of 3 players. So Ball Groups will be actually killable, and for that very reason they may not take part in this test. If Ball Groups won't play, they they won't cause any lag.... lag they are infamous for.... so this test will be kinda irrelevant.

acastanza_ESO

Soarora wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

• Do characters properly zone into Cyrodiil with templatized Stats and Gear?

I'm a bit confused on the gear front. The set bonuses are red and disabled, but is the gear entirely disabled? Why do we have weapons in our inventory if we still have our weapons from the real world? The enchants from my gear seem to not be adding to the stats, but the visual language is confusing to me since its just the set bonuses that are red. For instance, my ice staff does 1335 damage, but the one provided does 739. Does this mean that my real staff would do more light attack damage, or less because its disabled?

As for leaving and entering, everything seems fine whether it's using the wayshrine, porting to imperial city, or force closing the game using task manager.

Worth testing the provided staff vs the staff you brought in but they should do the same amount of damage regardless of what the weapon itself actually says. The point of the other weapons is that you can't otherwise change your weapon. So if you wanted to switch from that staff to daggers otherwise couldn't. That said do the different weapons actually do different amounts of damage? Do they all behave as their base weapon type just with white stats? That would be my assumption.

Soraka

The Q&A may have been handy before this. Since the topic is difficult to focus on with all the concerns in the air.

To stay on topic I have a question: "You also cannot pack up any siege to be saved later."
Does that mean no specialty siege for the test? I assume so, but I want to make sure I get everything off my character for the test cuz I don't want to lose my fancy siege (and I'm scared I'll get corrupted too so I'm glad they're testing that... I may just use an alt anyway when it goes live.)

i11ionward

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Look, I understand the focus on performance @ZOS_Kevin , but this feels like another Sacrificial Bones situation, where you say "we'll focus on balancing it later" and then never adjust it again.

If the environment isn't remotely balanced, you aren't going to get good data when the test goes live, because no one will want to play it.

Necro with no blastbones, Sorc with no spammable, etc make these classes impossible to play, meaning players that enjoy those classes will likely not even join the test environment.

Sure, performance is great to focus on right now, and it makes sense to ensure the campaign functions correctly first and foremost, but you cannot expect to get the population needed for good data if the test campaign goes live with the biggest power gap the classes have ever seen.

I completely agree with you about the Necromancer. A Necro without Blastbones is nothing short of a slap in the face to players. Additionally, Detonating Siphon and Restoring Tether look extremely underwhelming with their 5-meter range.

However, I completely disagree regarding the Sorcerer. Yes, its spammable ability has a 0.8-second cast time, but its arsenal also includes up to four potential stun skills, AOE immobilize, AOE slow, not to mention the mobility tool Bolt Escape, there will surely be an opportunity to make use of the 0.8-second cast skill. And as an option, you can use Overload Ult, which is essentially just a spammable skill that consumes ultimate points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeXdkmdc-d4

Soraka

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

you cannot expect to get the population needed for good data if the test campaign goes live with the biggest power gap the classes have ever seen.

Especially if it's NB as the S tier class again, players are gonna nope out fast.

So the test is gonna devolve into all nb bridge fight for a week?

I get the theory behind not worrying about builds, but I have to agree the test may not be testing all that much if we can't even kind of pretend we are pvp'ing naturally/normally because the builds are weird. Unfortunately I'm not able to PTS at the moment so I'm just vicariously speculating. Sorry Kevin. 😬

I don't want to spam so I'm gonna reply to the below here: Since a lot of people don't use the forums (a lot of people in pvp don't even know this is coming), it's going to be hard to test (possibly) because a lot of people are going to stand around complaining regardless of whether or not they "should". It's how people work. So like I said earlier if it's too bad on the balance they're not going to be able to test because of the complaining/opting out/shock/lopsided fights/goofing off. Just speculation though based off of how people tend to act in pvp. No amount of AP bonus is going to combat demoralization.

Estin

I'm currently downloading the PTS so I can try things out over the course of the week.

I do seriously hope that players will stop instantly griping over the perceived balance issues and focus on what is important, because if not, then this campaign test will get nowhere and we'll be stuck with current cyrodiil. Sure, some classes can have a better spammable to feel better, but class weaknesses are not going to matter when the potential population cap is 1800+ compared to the meager ~90 we currently have. The test is not meant to see if you can still X or honor duel on all classes. That's not going to be possible when you're always going to have hundreds of other players around you. Players should be more concerned on when the next iteration of this test is going to come out. I really hope we don't need to wait more than a couple of months between tests, because any longer would hurt its momentum.

Tannus15

I'll login to this thing to help get data, providing the stress tests or whatever are at a time where i'm awake. I'm all for helping fix cyrodiil and making it fun to play.

but there is no way i'm going to be playing this campaign for fun and just romping around doing whatever for the week that it's on live.

@ZOS_Kevin we get that this is a performance test, but it's going to affect the quality of the data you guys end up with. we're not paid testers, this isn't our job. please try and get them to address the main complaints about each class so that when it hits live people might enjoy it and you get way more data.

acastanza_ESO

Soraka wrote: »

The Q&A may have been handy before this. Since the topic is difficult to focus on with all the concerns in the air.

To stay on topic I have a question: "You also cannot pack up any siege to be saved later."
Does that mean no specialty siege for the test? I assume so, but I want to make sure I get everything off my character for the test cuz I don't want to lose my fancy siege (and I'm scared I'll get corrupted too so I'm glad they're testing that... I may just use an alt anyway when it goes live.)

Correct, there is no access to special siege, or anything that was in your inventory. The entire inventory gets overridden with their supplied items.

Tannus15

Estin wrote: »

I'm currently downloading the PTS so I can try things out over the course of the week.

I do seriously hope that players will stop instantly griping over the perceived balance issues and focus on what is important, because if not, then this campaign test will get nowhere and we'll be stuck with current cyrodiil. Sure, some classes can have a better spammable to feel better, but class weaknesses are not going to matter when the potential population cap is 1800+ compared to the meager ~90 we currently have. The test is not meant to see if you can still X or honor duel on all classes. That's not going to be possible when you're always going to have hundreds of other players around you. Players should be more concerned on when the next iteration of this test is going to come out. I really hope we don't need to wait more than a couple of months between tests, because any longer would hurt its momentum.

it's this! exactly this!
when this hits live, no one is going to care what ZoS are trying to achieve, they just want to play the game and have fun. The balance matters to the test, because if half the classes aren't fun to play NO ONE WILL DO IT.

You will not get 1800 players if it sucks!

I know balance doesn't matter. I know it's not the point.
But it's a game and the players are not paid testers, they will not hang around just because you want them to. You have to make it fun too!!!

Deimus

Was hoping PvP specific skills would be their chance to really shake up class kits to match their fast paced movement intensive Cyrodiil PvP environment without having to think about PvE especially for the Necromancer.

No Blastbones so forcing us into a skill that is hated by the majority of Necromancer players which was created to ease demand of casting a skill every 3 seconds on PvE dps rotations, still relying on tethers and ground AoEs which are ineffective in Cyrodiil, Totem fear still has a 2 second delay. Really ZOS?

I get it is a performance test and the skills are simplified, but it could have been simplified versions of PvP specific skills have Boneyard act as a ground sticky DoT or like Soul Splitting Trap, scrap the tethers for something new or make them attach to an enemy or ally instead of to a corpse rather than give us toned down versions of the PvE balanced skills we currently have.

I'm going to try the test, but as things stand now the class balance will be the same if not worse.

Edit: The same issue when GLS was introduced is also present here. The 3 ways to make a corpse Bone Armor, SacBones, and Skeletal Mage will always drop a corpse at your feet making Vengeance Detonating Siphon useless unless the enemy is standing next to a dead npc or dead player. With no mobility you will only hit an opponent that wants to be in melee range with you.

Tannus15

It doesn't even have to be balanced.
It just has to be fun.
All the classes have to be fun!

Tommy_The_Gun

Soraka wrote: »

So the test is gonna devolve into all nb bridge fight for a week?

I get the theory behind not worrying about builds, but I have to agree the test may not be testing all that much if we can't even kind of pretend we are pvp'ing naturally/normally because the builds are weird. Unfortunately I'm not able to PTS at the moment so I'm just vicariously speculating. Sorry Kevin. 😬

I am not sure.... I mean... we all have 70K HP here.... it will take like 5 or 7 Players to kill someone anyway (unless AFK)
...and there are also no proc sets.

Personally, I am gonna play in this mode, just for the sake of not worrying about insane proc set damage annoying pulls and either lack of ball groups or killable ball groups.

As for the feedback:

While I understand the "simplification" of the abilities, some abilities due to their nature may be actually too weak in this mode. Class balance needs to be there at least in minimal form, while also somehow providing choice of play style & power fantasy. It is better to make each class "stand out" and be good at something vs just mathematically simplifying each skill individually according to spreadsheet (cuz I assume this is how it was done).

I think, that you can do both things here. Make abilities simpler & more straightforward, while also keeping each class unique.

In order for people to participate in this test, first and foremost it needs to be FUN. I will repeat. F U N. Make it so that players would have fun. Since there are no achivements, quests and other stuff and 90% of features are disabled - at the very least make it Fun & Crazy for everyone.

AP gain does not matter much for PvP-ers anyway. More AP alone won't make people participate if their "main" can't have "fun".

Overall.... it looks like it may be interesting experience, but some abilities - to put it bluntly - needs to be stronger.

ZOS_Kevin

Just want to let folks know that we are passing on the currently expressed thoughts around balance and it has been shared. The point in repeating the point of the test was to make it clear what our goals are here on PTS. That being said, feedback has been noted and appreciated.

Estin

Tannus15 wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

I'm currently downloading the PTS so I can try things out over the course of the week.

I do seriously hope that players will stop instantly griping over the perceived balance issues and focus on what is important, because if not, then this campaign test will get nowhere and we'll be stuck with current cyrodiil. Sure, some classes can have a better spammable to feel better, but class weaknesses are not going to matter when the potential population cap is 1800+ compared to the meager ~90 we currently have. The test is not meant to see if you can still X or honor duel on all classes. That's not going to be possible when you're always going to have hundreds of other players around you. Players should be more concerned on when the next iteration of this test is going to come out. I really hope we don't need to wait more than a couple of months between tests, because any longer would hurt its momentum.

it's this! exactly this!
when this hits live, no one is going to care what ZoS are trying to achieve, they just want to play the game and have fun. The balance matters to the test, because if half the classes aren't fun to play NO ONE WILL DO IT.

You will not get 1800 players if it sucks!

I know balance doesn't matter. I know it's not the point.
But it's a game and the players are not paid testers, they will not hang around just because you want them to. You have to make it fun too!!!

Given the scope of it, it does have the potential of being fun even if half of the classes are weaker than others. Players are still going to be able to die due to everyone being barebones. You're not going to have to worry about being 1 shot ganked by a nightblade abusing proc sets, or a perma block tank ignoring all of your group's damage, or a ball group coming in and breaking up a zerg while spamming shields and heals. Players unused to pvp are going to find safety in numbers and always stay grouped up. Necro's current weaknesses is not going to matter in a 200 man zerg.

Honestly, I'm more concerned about the incentive for players to stick around for the entire week. Double AP and XP is nice, but you can't get the alliance skill lines up during the test which is what many PvEers were hoping to do. Perhaps ZOS can offer up something else in addition to the double AP and XP? Maybe reaching tier 3 on the campaign rewards can give players a pet, mount, skin, or something so there's a reason to stick around. Maybe even a crown crate or two so there's reasons to get tier 3 on more than 1 character.

MincMincMinc

I havent gotten home yet to check, but I sure hope the team disabled status effects as they are a whole other level of ticks and effects on the server.

What is sad is that some of the skills seem better than live.

• Curious how overload works
• Maybe atronach will actually do enough damage to be used in pvp, instead of a pve buff
• Surge should be a hot considering sorc already has ward and matriach. A hot closer aligns with the original intent of healing every time you crit.
• Sorc not having a spammable is concerning, Itd be better to just make frags an instant cast with normal damage. Or even make it only a 33% proc so people can still do the timed burst playstyle.
• Darkdeal being instant heal and resource return is AMAZING, it closer aligns with the sorc playstyle of running a deficit build. Where this was changed on live to be a poor copy of warden's sustain method of return over time.

i11ionward

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Soraka wrote: »

So the test is gonna devolve into all nb bridge fight for a week?

I get the theory behind not worrying about builds, but I have to agree the test may not be testing all that much if we can't even kind of pretend we are pvp'ing naturally/normally because the builds are weird. Unfortunately I'm not able to PTS at the moment so I'm just vicariously speculating. Sorry Kevin. 😬

I am not sure.... I mean... we all have 70K HP here.... it will take like 5 or 7 Players to kill someone anyway (unless AFK)
...and there are also no proc sets.

It seems that the battle spirit is missing in this campaign, so the damage numbers should be about 2 times higher than on a live server. It's not surprising that they increased HP, otherwise the TTK would be extremely short.

acastanza_ESO

MincMincMinc wrote: »

I havent gotten home yet to check, but I sure hope the team disabled status effects as they are a whole other level of ticks and effects on the server.

What is sad is that some of the skills seem better than live.

• Curious how overload works
• Maybe atronach will actually do enough damage to be used in pvp, instead of a pve buff
• Surge should be a hot considering sorc already has ward and matriach. A hot closer aligns with the original intent of healing every time you crit.
• Sorc not having a spammable is concerning, Itd be better to just make frags an instant cast with normal damage. Or even make it only a 33% proc so people can still do the timed burst playstyle.
• Darkdeal being instant heal and resource return is AMAZING, it closer aligns with the sorc playstyle of running a deficit build. Where this was changed on live to be a poor copy of warden's sustain method of return over time.

Overload is targeted, you look at the player and hit the key and it fires a lightning ball, each ball costs 25 ult. It isn't a toggle in Vengeance.
Dark Exchange is not instant, it is still a 1 second cast time, they just removed the resource return over time component.

Alchimiste1

after some initial testing I can say, half of all the fights are heavy attacking for resources.

pretty boring.

danko355

Please give the sorcerers proper spammable skill, is it really that much to ask?

XIIICaesar

Do characters properly zone into Cyrodiil with templatized Stats and Gear?
Yes. Tried an Arcanist, Sorcerer & Necromancer.
Do characters earn XP/AP/Gold upon leaving?
Yes.
Do siege weapons still function with the limitations of only deploying 1 type at at time?
Yes. Old siege disappears when I set the 2nd piece.
Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, etc?
No.
What happened to trigger the corruption (leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, etc)?
N/A
What are your initial thoughts on Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)?
I like the simplified or, to be more apt, Companion skills. But the issue right now, as others stated, is the balance. All are mag based. At least the classes I tried. Even on the template stats. Everything was equal except for recovery where stam only had 1500 mag had 2200. The simplified skills are fine but you still need morphs that give you choices & options just like Live server has currently. Morph it into a stam based ability or another mag based ability etc. Toning the skill effects down in the same vain as Companion skills like Vengeance is now is fine but those skill morphs still need to exist. Otherwise you lose a lot of build diversity & completely throw away much of the hybridization of builds & skills we have right now. You lose your class identities & uniqueness or flavor of different build archetype as well. Also, the way some of the skills are setup now as well as having simplified effects like Companion skills they oddly have less function & it shows because you spammable sucks & your heal is ineffective as the base morphs. Overall though combat felt good on my Necromancer in the duels I did. Skills had no delays or firing issues. No lag. There was only around 10 people where I was at too though.
Do you have any general feedback?
The sky in the Vengeance campaign is cool af. Could they make that sky a permanent addition to live but only during certain situations? My thought was whenever Volendrung has spawned/appeared or maybe once it's found/revealed, have the atmosphere change to the Vengeance sky & then back to normal once Volendrung disappears. Not performance related but yeah.

Cast_El

Their are some goods ideas, and templar finally got a delay burst ability again. Adding heal to cloak was not, on the other way.